firstymer

I like you Fantail. That, by definition, makes you likeable.

least

Put your effort into liking yourself. Be your own best friend.

chrcarlson

31 days sober here. I'm having a little trouble with my behaviors. I quite sure I've said the wrong things a time or two. Probably no worse than when I was drinking but I'm more aware of it now. I feel a little bad about it but to be honest I don't care. As long as I stay sober I will get better at speaking with people. I'm trying to make little adjustments.

Nuudawn

Personally my friend fantail...I quite like "odd ducks" and fancy I'm one myself. I too was branded with the snobby or aloof characterization back in high school and I too was just a "p*ss poor" social interactor in a lot of ways. Have you ever read the book "Quiet" ? If you haven't, I highly recommend.

I think inside a lot of alcoholic's lies an introverted soul who feels like an odd duck most of the time... alcohol could make me forget that..drunk or sober it seems...in ways, I suppose alcohol is like that blanket I hide under thinking (like a child) ...I don't see you so you don't see me. It's weird. I'm wierd.

I love weird. Don't change a thing.

Hevyn

Fantail, I'm really glad you wanted to talk about this. I feel much the same as you do. I know that using alcohol to feel less anxious really stunted my emotional growth and prevented me from maturing. I'm having to make up for almost 30 yrs. of numbing myself. I did it in the hopes of feeling more comfortable in my skin - and it was the worst thing I could have done.

It's taken practice to find out who I really am, without my 'buffer'. Drinking to cope with anxiety & shyness cost me big time.
I am making progress, though. We will figure this out, and flourish. Glad you are here with us.

learningagain

I think it is often a disconnect sometimes between how we feel we are and how we are perceived.

I remember a decade or so ago, starting a masters program in a new city. There were 20 or so of us. I hated it, hated meeting all the new people, was convinced no one liked me and that I was the one everyone else was putting up with. Well, 8 or so months into the program, we were out (having drinks of course), but the conversation came around to what everyone's first impressions was of everyone else. The entire group said they thought that first day I was a social butterfly, caring, and probably going to be one of the dominant personalities in the group, including ensuring the shy people were included - I was floored. It was a real eye opener to me.

I think sometimes we assume what other people are thinking about us and forget they have all of their own social awkwardness going on. Whenever I feel awkward now, I remember back to those days.

thomas11

Fantail, there is no shame in staying true to yourself. You are who you are.

courage2

Fantail, I don't think you're unlikable.

A while after I got sober, when the freaked-out mocus part and PAWS had worn off, I got super-sensitive to other people's reactions to me. I was always checking to make sure whatever I was saying or not saying was appropriate, wanted. I thought I was pi$$ing people off right & left.

Learned 2 things:

1) it's okay w/people if you say stuff like "I'm just feeling quiet now, don't take it personally" or "I hope that didn't offend you, sometimes I put things too bluntly." You're becoming self-aware & that's good.

2) It doesn't matter if I'm liked by people who aren't willing to look for my good qualities, which I do have, somewhere, I've been told. You do, too!

fantail

Wow, thanks everyone. So many responses! It's really nice to just hear that I'm not the only one who worries about. And compliments! I wasn't fishing for 'em, but I'll take 'em.

I took a lot from each of your posts. I'll respond some more tomorrow when I'm not as tired.

Someone at AA tonight reminded me that we're "narcissists with low self esteem problems" which uh, doesn't exactly make me feel better about myself, but it was said in a light hearted way and it did remind me to keep a sense of humor.

But yeah. A lot of the things mentioned here... I kind of thought I'd already gone through. I thought I'd broken through my shyness, and learned that I don't have to be liked by everyone, and that by being myself I make the right kind of friends... I really thought I was secure in all of that.

I guess I didn't realize how much I relied on alcohol to give me false confidence... and then at the same time how I just blamed all my problems on alcohol, too. Now I'm out the liquid courage AND the scapegoat.

I think maybe it's strange because being sober means that my interior world went from absolutely narrow to very expansive, so now it's stranger to me when people don't perceive this whole head space I'm in.

Dunno. Sleepy ramblings. Thanks again for making me feel better and sharing your own experiences.

Berrybean

Reckon there's something in the air - I woke up this morning full of the old 'shame' that carried me through childhood, and into my 40's, and pretty much crippled me at times. Although it was silly early, I had to get up and make coffee and wash my tears away with cold, cold water and remind myself that this feeling is not a 'true' reflection on who I am. These feelings, for me, are fear based. I just re-read an article that helps me understand why I felt like this (and sometimes those old feelings re-emerge and I need to blow them gently away) and do some inner-child work.

This is the article that I read Setting Personal Boundaries - protecting self

I know it is mostly about setting boundaries, but the first half of the article is about learning to have a healthier relationship with self. You might find it useful. Worth a look anyway.

BB x

wehav2day

Fantail, you certainly are like able!!

I think you are totally right, a lot of us took to drinking because we felt a little or a lot awkward. I also feel that whenever we started drinking, we pretty much stopped growing. So when we stop, we pretty much have a lot of growing to do. It took me a year or so to start trusting my own feelings, observations, even moods sometimes. Continued sobriety will help you with that.

There's another thing a dear friend has said to me. She isn't in recovery, but she's a pretty amazing soul with a lot of wisdom. Anyway, just yesterday she said this to me: "wehav, it's really none of your business what other people think of you."

She meant that I should be myself, not worry about what folks think.

Just be the best fantail you can. Not the best fantail you think people want.
Hugs!

Upwardspiral

We sure have a lot in common Fantail. I'm a weirdo! For me not only do I feel that most people can't acquire a taste for my personality, there aren't many people I care to get too intimate with either. Even in the rooms of AA I still secretly harbor that toxic idea that "I'm different".

I do think that a lot of dust is settling and I don't really have a good sense of who I am now, but things are slowly getting clearer. Who knows what we'll have to say on this topic in another 6 or 12 months?
Edit: NOT implying that you're a weirdo. I just mean that's the skewed self perception I'm working with you're great, really glad you're in my class

Soberpotamus

You seem likeable, Fantail. I am certain you have good qualities.

I went through a bit of what you're describing. I worried because I don't easily connect with others. It's ok, though.

It's ok if you don't connect with many, though I think at some point in your sobriety, things will begin to shift, and you might be surprised at the connections you make.

I know that one day I realized my anxiety level had subsided dramatically when I was in social situations, and that people began to want to engage with me, on a regular basis.

My confidence increased as my self-esteem increased. I think, for me, I'd passed the point of no return -- I had finally become my own best friend and advocate. And you don't have to like yourself completely to get there.

I am a female INTJ, so trust me, it's not been easy to make new friends. And I can count on one hand my true friends. But I am ok with this.

And I think that's key -- to arrive at the place where you are comfortable with who you really are (comes in time), and then you're going to know (perhaps instinctively) how best to establish personal boundaries, and to allow back into your life the good people and the ones who can appreciate you.

ETA: About ten or so years ago, I was seeing a psychiatrist for a little while. I told him one day that I didn't think I was very likeable. He looked at me and said: Well, go and find the people who will like you. That stuck with me!

fini

quack, fantail.
from another acquired-taste-odd-duck.
lots of experience with working hard to "make" the people i liked like me. and yes, they did and do, for the most part, once we get past whatever my "front" appears to them as.

in a few years of sobriety, that's slowly, very slowly changing. i care less, and approach a bit more openly, since i'm not feeling so awful about myself nor so easily attackable.

and no, we're not all narcissists. definitely not.

i , too, was thinking of the MyersBriggs types as i was reading this thread, and wondering if it's a "type" thing.
infj here, though i've taken it several times and the f can switch to t and then back.

and it might be useless to you to be told by other odd duck-acquired tastes that we find you likeable indeed, but for sure here you're likeable.

fantail

OK. Time to respond more carefully here to all the really thoughtful responses.

@Dee - If I could put “‘Not a jerk’ — Dee” on my resume, I would. Thank you for saying so, it means a lot because you see a lot from all of us. “It took me a while to remember who I used to be before drinking and to bring that person up to speed with the 20 years of life experience I had as a drunk.” Yes. This feels true to me. I feel like I’ve regressed and not at the same time.

@SoberinSyracuse — I don’t know if I’ll ever get to be as assertive as I am in my head. But you’re right, I need to check the self criticism.

@FormerWineGirl - “But at least I am genuine, and I care about people.” Yes. I feel this way too. Then I go into a whole mess trying to figure out if I care about people enough, but yeah. And you’re right, the drinking me wasn’t the real me. But it also wasn’t not the real me, you know?

@Ruby - Thank you. I’m glad you feel more accepting of yourself now. Did the whole #banbossy thing resonate with you?

@Dallow — It’s true. Most of the time I don’t really care about defining myself… but lately I’m really hung up on this whole “who am I” kick. I guess it’s only natural.

@GroundhogDay — Yes, I remember! I don’t think I have the presence of mind to try to gamify my interactions with people. That’s part of my problem… I just dive in and afterwards think hmm, I’m not sure if that was a normal way to behave.

@ScrewdUpInDe — I swing back and forth between no filter and completely muzzled. I think that’s part of what stresses me out. I’m used to using alcohol to “control” that. Without it I feel like I don’t know who I’m going to turn out to be on any given day.

@esinger — That’s wise. I need to gain that self acceptance.

@SR, @trachemys, @Tetra, @Leshar, @Firsttymer, @thomas11-- Thank you.

@sleepie — I can’t remember not being shy. I think I’ve always been kind of to-the-beat-of-my-own-drummer, kind of spacey… I figured out pretty early that people didn’t always react to things I did or said the way I expected them to. So I’d kind of freeze up. I did get teased, but mostly for being shy. I felt teased more than I really was I think. I felt very much like an outsider. There was one year that I refused to wear any bright colors because I was convinced that if I were kind of unnoticeable then people would make fun of me less!I’d like to be able to do the humor thing, but I can’t always get into the right mood.

@Hooped — That is true. It’s just hard in practice.

@SparkleKitty — That’s wise. Looking forward to following that path too!

@JohnQ — You’re right. It is very likely in my head. Maybe it comes from lying so much for so long, that now I want people to see the real me but I’m not sure that I’m getting that through.

@Anna — You’re right. I really have so many open ended questions about who I become now. Sometimes it’s exciting and sometimes it’s terrifying.

@oldsoul — I haven’t made friends in AA either. I’ve made good acquaintances but no one that I see outside of meetings. I like your idea of positive self talk. I need to work on that.

@SillyHuman — Yes. I definitely have it. It goes away sometimes, but then it always comes back.

@least — I’m trying. It is definitely hard to get used to spending so much time with yourself. If that makes sense. Drinking was like “being alone” and now time alone is “with myself”. Not sure how to describe but… it feels that way.

@chcarlson — I think you’re right… little adjustments. I always try to overhaul things and then I get overwhelmed.

@nuudawn — Thank you. I need to pick up Quiet. I did read some of it, but I was drunk so, don’t remember much. Yes, alcohol was just like that for me (I don’t see you you don’t see me). Now I feel exposed even though nothing is externally different.

@Hevyn — Yeah, I’m on the same page. It felt like I’d found a way to deal with all of these social issues. Now I realize that nothing really got fixed. I do think in some ways I’m more outgoing now than I would have been without the drunk time? It did show me that I could talk to people and enjoy it, and not embarrass myself (ha! at first). But now I’m having to rebuild a sober way to get there.

@learningagain — That’s a really great story. Thank you for sharing that. A really good reminder.

@courage — That is exactly the type of thing I’m having trouble learning: “I’m just feeling quiet now.” I always drank to “fix” my quiet moods. I’m kind of astonished at how often I’m quiet when left to my own devices. It’s hard to navigate.

@beccybean — Thank you for the link! I’ll read it tonight. I’m sorry you had a rough day too. It came on kind of out of nowhere for me too.

@wehav — Thank you. “It took me a year or so to start trusting my own feelings, observations, even moods sometimes.” This is important. You’re right that it’s a trust issue. I’m getting to know and like myself. But I also nearly killed myself. “We” have trust issues, for sure.

@upwards — You can certainly imply that I’m a weirdo; I implied it first! I’m glad you’re in my class too. And yeah, it does go both ways— I’m realizing that without alcohol I like a lot fewer people. Not that I dislike many people… there just aren’t as many I find interesting. Which makes me dislike myself, kind of.

@soberpotamus — Thank you. I think I’m realizing that my anxiety level is higher than I realize. I was so used to living with 10 out of 10 anxiety that I think I may still be at a 7 or so without recognizing it.

@fini — ENFP, me, but the E switches to I sometimes. I don’t know enough about the system to know if this is something that might have a link. It’s not at all useless that other odd ducks find me likable. I just hope that when I meet odd ducks offline I get the same result!

Dee74

put it on there anyway fantail - everyone knows me lol

D

Wastinglife

As someone else mentioned: social anxiety. I used alcohol to over come it starting at 15 yo. I only figured out I had it this year as I work with a therapist at age 39. I constantly feel I'm being judged by others. It's hard for me to connect with strangers without alcohol because the booze numbed any anxious thoughts I had.

As a child, I was terrified of being called on in class or being in large groups with unfamiliar people. AA has been difficult to integrate into for me because of this social anxiety that seems to linger. It's not nearly as bad as when I was a child, but I can still feel myself tense up at AA or social settings.

My therapist has helped me a lot to realize that the thoughts aren't true and are irrational