What if it's actually a Gift?
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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I'm glad you have a far more positive outlook towards addiction. In my own opinion I think for the majority of people addiction is no gift. The reason I believe this is because I have lived it myself and also been witness to: jails, institutions, homelessness, broken families, death, financial ruin, suicide, etc.
Addiction is the gift that keeps on taking.
Addiction is the gift that keeps on taking.
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I've been witness to that as well.
If you re-read my clarification post a few posts back, perhaps it will make more sense. Perhaps not. I respect that not everyone will see it this way. My offering here was meant for those who might, for those who may be helped toward sobriety or for whom sobriety may be reinforced by this thought.
If you re-read my clarification post a few posts back, perhaps it will make more sense. Perhaps not. I respect that not everyone will see it this way. My offering here was meant for those who might, for those who may be helped toward sobriety or for whom sobriety may be reinforced by this thought.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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Originally Posted by FreeOwl 
We can make a gift of anything.
I have come to see it as a gift.
You clearly don't - and that's OK.
But, it doesn't mean it's not a gift for me. And it may well be that someone else's perspective could be shifted in such a way that it finally helps them turn the corner and break out of the cycle in the same way that the shift did for me.
SO...
With that in mind allow me to indulge a slight modification to your quote above;
"I appreciate your optimism but for ME, addiction is no gift."
I have come to see it as a gift.
You clearly don't - and that's OK.
But, it doesn't mean it's not a gift for me. And it may well be that someone else's perspective could be shifted in such a way that it finally helps them turn the corner and break out of the cycle in the same way that the shift did for me.
SO...
With that in mind allow me to indulge a slight modification to your quote above;
"I appreciate your optimism but for ME, addiction is no gift."
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Originally Posted by dcg
Are you asserting that you are glad you had a substance abuse problem? By glad, I mean you prefer to have had a substance abuse problem that destroyed parts of your life rather than having a clean life with no substance abuse problems ever?
'Moderately' along all of my life and not discovering the depth that I am as a direct consequence of sobriety could easily have been my reality.
My addiction problems were my gateway to a richer, deeper life. For that, my struggles were a gift.
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Originally Posted by FreeOwl
I am asserting that I feel my addictions led me to enough travesty that I was saved from a 'status quo' life of wasting precious time and experience on substances most of or all of my life - as many do in my experience. Drinking and drugging
'Moderately' along all of my life and not discovering the depth that I am as a direct consequence of sobriety could easily have been my reality.
My addiction problems were my gateway to a richer, deeper life. For that, my struggles were a gift.
'Moderately' along all of my life and not discovering the depth that I am as a direct consequence of sobriety could easily have been my reality.
My addiction problems were my gateway to a richer, deeper life. For that, my struggles were a gift.
How many years did you abuse substances? That answer may help me understand your position better.
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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For me, it is a gift as well.
One thing I notice in sobriety ... I have friends and relatives who don't necessarily have problems with substances, but they have other problems. Shopping too much, working too much, conflict & drama in their relationships/friendships, unhappy and depressed, feel empty and unfulfilled despite having lots of "success". So there are many ways to suffer, not just from chemicals. But it is hard to stop these other kinds of suffering ... because nothing ever really comes to a crisis ... people just keep overworking, or overspending, or zoning out depressed in front of the TV, or whatever.
My recovery from alcoholism ultimately led me to start examining how I deal with EVERYTHING. Sobriety and recovery not only solved my drink problem, it solved my general unhappiness problem. It is solving other problems that I didn't think had anything to do with drinking.
One thing I notice in sobriety ... I have friends and relatives who don't necessarily have problems with substances, but they have other problems. Shopping too much, working too much, conflict & drama in their relationships/friendships, unhappy and depressed, feel empty and unfulfilled despite having lots of "success". So there are many ways to suffer, not just from chemicals. But it is hard to stop these other kinds of suffering ... because nothing ever really comes to a crisis ... people just keep overworking, or overspending, or zoning out depressed in front of the TV, or whatever.
My recovery from alcoholism ultimately led me to start examining how I deal with EVERYTHING. Sobriety and recovery not only solved my drink problem, it solved my general unhappiness problem. It is solving other problems that I didn't think had anything to do with drinking.
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To the people that don't think addiction was a gift that lead them to a deeper and more fulfilling life; that's fine, everyone sees the world differently, not sure why it's a big deal.
If you disagree that's cool, not sure why it's become a debate .
If you disagree that's cool, not sure why it's become a debate .
)
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Originally Posted by dcg
So the assertion is moderate drinkers waste precious time in their lives and are unable to have deep, rich fulfilling lives? That doesn't seem to be the case with the real moderate drinkers I know (unless by placing the word moderate in quotes, you're actually talking about problem drinkers who do not realize they are problem drinkers). How many years did you abuse substances? That answer may help me understand your position better.
It will resonate for those it does, for those it doesn't, there are many other perspectives.
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Originally Posted by FreeOwl
If you're not seeing the thrust of my offering, that's ok.
It will resonate for those it does, for those it doesn't, there are many other perspectives.
It will resonate for those it does, for those it doesn't, there are many other perspectives.
Sobriety is a gift.
Addiction is a gift.
My belief:
Sobriety is a gift because being sober is better than being a destructive addict.
Addiction is not a gift because being sober is better than being a destructive addict.
Then the mention of moderate drinkers came into the picture and how ex-drunks are better off than moderate drinkers.
Personally, I'd easily redo the last 30 years and be a person who drank 0-15 drinks a month rather than a person who progressively got worse and worse to the point where alcohol was a center-point in life.
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Originally Posted by FreeOwl
It really isn't about being better off than anyone else. The gift is what my addiction led to, for ME.
You asked of former addicts, "What if it's actually a gift?" I say if it is (the cycle of sobriety to addiction to sobriety) a gift, then it should be recommended for non-addicts to do for themselves otherwise it's just some feelgood stuff, imo.
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Originally Posted by Venecia
Sometimes, the best thing we can do is recognize that people of goodwill and integrity can have honestly different perspectives on an issue so central to our beings and leave it at that.
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Some people see it as a gift, some don't.
It's the blind men and the elephant thing
I see both sides to this argument. I've been on both sides over the last 8 years.
For me, I stand at a position where I feel I've wrest some good from a very bad situation.
I should be dead, so every new day I'm not? sure seems like a gift to me.
It's not a bad way to live IMO
D
It's the blind men and the elephant thing
ELEPHANT AND THE BLIND MEN
Once upon a time, there lived six blind men in a village. One day the villagers told them, "Hey, there is an elephant in the village today."
They had no idea what an elephant is. They decided, "Even though we would not be able to see it, let us go and feel it anyway." All of them went where the elephant was. Everyone of them touched the elephant.
"Hey, the elephant is a pillar," said the first man who touched his leg.
"Oh, no! it is like a rope," said the second man who touched the tail.
"Oh, no! it is like a thick branch of a tree," said the third man who touched the trunk of the elephant.
"It is like a big hand fan" said the fourth man who touched the ear of the elephant.
"It is like a huge wall," said the fifth man who touched the belly of the elephant.
"It is like a solid pipe," Said the sixth man who touched the tusk of the elephant.
They began to argue about the elephant and everyone of them insisted that he was right. It looked like they were getting agitated. A wise man was passing by and he saw this. He stopped and asked them, "What is the matter?" They said, "We cannot agree to what the elephant is like." Each one of them told what he thought the elephant was like. The wise man calmly explained to them, "All of you are right. The reason every one of you is telling it differently because each one of you touched the different part of the elephant. So, actually the elephant has all those features what you all said."
"Oh!" everyone said. There was no more fight. They felt happy that they were all right.
The moral of the story is that there may be some truth to what someone says. Sometimes we can see that truth and sometimes not because they may have different perspective which we may not agree too. So, rather than arguing like the blind men, we should say, "Maybe you have your reasons." This way we don’t get in arguments. In Jainism, it is explained that truth can be stated in seven different ways. So, you can see how broad our religion is. It teaches us to be tolerant towards others for their viewpoints. This allows us to live in harmony with the people of different thinking. This is known as the Syadvada, Anekantvad, or the theory of Manifold Predictions.
Once upon a time, there lived six blind men in a village. One day the villagers told them, "Hey, there is an elephant in the village today."
They had no idea what an elephant is. They decided, "Even though we would not be able to see it, let us go and feel it anyway." All of them went where the elephant was. Everyone of them touched the elephant.
"Hey, the elephant is a pillar," said the first man who touched his leg.
"Oh, no! it is like a rope," said the second man who touched the tail.
"Oh, no! it is like a thick branch of a tree," said the third man who touched the trunk of the elephant.
"It is like a big hand fan" said the fourth man who touched the ear of the elephant.
"It is like a huge wall," said the fifth man who touched the belly of the elephant.
"It is like a solid pipe," Said the sixth man who touched the tusk of the elephant.
They began to argue about the elephant and everyone of them insisted that he was right. It looked like they were getting agitated. A wise man was passing by and he saw this. He stopped and asked them, "What is the matter?" They said, "We cannot agree to what the elephant is like." Each one of them told what he thought the elephant was like. The wise man calmly explained to them, "All of you are right. The reason every one of you is telling it differently because each one of you touched the different part of the elephant. So, actually the elephant has all those features what you all said."
"Oh!" everyone said. There was no more fight. They felt happy that they were all right.
The moral of the story is that there may be some truth to what someone says. Sometimes we can see that truth and sometimes not because they may have different perspective which we may not agree too. So, rather than arguing like the blind men, we should say, "Maybe you have your reasons." This way we don’t get in arguments. In Jainism, it is explained that truth can be stated in seven different ways. So, you can see how broad our religion is. It teaches us to be tolerant towards others for their viewpoints. This allows us to live in harmony with the people of different thinking. This is known as the Syadvada, Anekantvad, or the theory of Manifold Predictions.
For me, I stand at a position where I feel I've wrest some good from a very bad situation.
I should be dead, so every new day I'm not? sure seems like a gift to me.
It's not a bad way to live IMO
D
Last edited by Dee74; 10-12-2015 at 04:48 PM.
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For the record I have no issue with you disagreeing and I've tried several times to express that.
To each our own. We are all unique and we all have different ways of seeing, different perspectives we find helpful.
Yours is as valid for you as mine is for me.
To each our own. We are all unique and we all have different ways of seeing, different perspectives we find helpful.
Yours is as valid for you as mine is for me.
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Originally Posted by dcg
In other words, never disagree or challenge something someone postulates in a thread?
As far as I'm concerned, as long as everyone stays cool, and accepts that their viewpoint doesn't need to 'win', it's all good.
D
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I had cancer
At 28 years old I had invasive ductal carcinoma. That's breast cancer that's spreading. 4 rounds of chemo + 36 rounds of full beam radiation and I'm C-free for now.
It's very individual and special, our life experiences. I have called this a "gift."
Let's not debate someone's perception of their own experience. It's weakening, not strengthening.
It's very individual and special, our life experiences. I have called this a "gift."
Let's not debate someone's perception of their own experience. It's weakening, not strengthening.
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