God of understanding and not feeling honest in AA
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,044
Hi oldsoul --
There's plenty of room in the AA program for anyone who has a desire to stop drinking, no matter the flavor of their spirituality.
As to whether the meetings a person attends are the right "fit" to help them to understand that in a way that strengthens their own personal development in sobriety, that's a whole different question. Each group has its own style and norms, and if you can, you may want to look for a different group.
I think finding a sponsor will help you with this question a lot. I suggest you go early or stay late after meetings and talk to some others -- listen for someone whose shares suggest a perspective you can learn from.
Good luck!
There's plenty of room in the AA program for anyone who has a desire to stop drinking, no matter the flavor of their spirituality.
As to whether the meetings a person attends are the right "fit" to help them to understand that in a way that strengthens their own personal development in sobriety, that's a whole different question. Each group has its own style and norms, and if you can, you may want to look for a different group.
I think finding a sponsor will help you with this question a lot. I suggest you go early or stay late after meetings and talk to some others -- listen for someone whose shares suggest a perspective you can learn from.
Good luck!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
the day after my last drunk was the 1st time in my life i said a prayer to whatever god was out there- an honest, sincere prayer to help me.
attending meetings and working the steps i started complicating it and also had this notion that if i saidmi gotta god of my understanding, the people in aa would try and tell me how my god was going to be.
welp a few things happened. i was reading bills story and one line hit me upside the head:
"Why don't you choose your own conception of God?"
then some other things from the bb hit me:
He can choose any conception he likes, provided it makes sense to him.
When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God. This applies, too, to other spiritual expressions which you find in this book. Do not let any prejudice you may have against spiritual terms deter you from honestly asking yourself what they mean to you.
So we used our own conception, however limited it was. We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. "Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?
that,plus realizing no one ever pushed any god on me( i did have people disagree with my conception. but i was ok with that. it was working for me tje way it was ). i was allowed to chose my own that made sense to me and a hp that would help me solve my problems.
the God of my understanding isnt the same as when i got sober. it has changed with time.
but one thing has remained:
its one with all power that can and will help as long as i seek him.
attending meetings and working the steps i started complicating it and also had this notion that if i saidmi gotta god of my understanding, the people in aa would try and tell me how my god was going to be.
welp a few things happened. i was reading bills story and one line hit me upside the head:
"Why don't you choose your own conception of God?"
then some other things from the bb hit me:
He can choose any conception he likes, provided it makes sense to him.
When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God. This applies, too, to other spiritual expressions which you find in this book. Do not let any prejudice you may have against spiritual terms deter you from honestly asking yourself what they mean to you.
So we used our own conception, however limited it was. We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. "Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?
that,plus realizing no one ever pushed any god on me( i did have people disagree with my conception. but i was ok with that. it was working for me tje way it was ). i was allowed to chose my own that made sense to me and a hp that would help me solve my problems.
the God of my understanding isnt the same as when i got sober. it has changed with time.
but one thing has remained:
its one with all power that can and will help as long as i seek him.
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Eugene Oregon
Posts: 306
Well this thread and a very nice lady at St. Vincent De Paul today finally convinced me to look around for an AA meeting. I asked the lady checking me out today at St. Vinnie's how long she'd been sober--I could tell by the story she told other customers she was recovering alcoholic and she said it would be 22 years but she slipped up and now it was 7. She asked me to check out her group some time which was named 'try god' she said they believe their higher power is God. Extremely cool, nice lady, but not for me :-) So I figured if the groups were so clearly marked I could find something for me and I found a 'stairway to sobriety' group right up the street where I live, on a day and time I could do it. Cool-- I'll try anything once.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
Originally Posted by FreeOwl 
remember that while AA does sincerely mean GOD AS WE UNDERSTAND HIM.... still it is a program based on humans and it had to be written down in language. So, words had to be chosen.
We have to walk into that AA meeting and open that Big Book with the awareness that the founders could never have come up with a set of words that would simply appeal to and feel "right" to everyone. So, they chose words that were simple and recognizable and then they built those words around a philosophy, around principles and practices.
We have to walk into that AA meeting and open that Big Book with the awareness that the founders could never have come up with a set of words that would simply appeal to and feel "right" to everyone. So, they chose words that were simple and recognizable and then they built those words around a philosophy, around principles and practices.
I realized a long time ago that there is a contradiction in the words, "God as we understood him". But I get the meaning of it, and that's all that ever mattered to me. My "God" doesn't fit into any traditional definition of God, yet I've successfully been using the word for a very long time now, as the word works as an all encompassing tool. And an easily understood one, when I'm sharing my experience.
I just accept the language and roll with it. The principles behind that less than perfect language are what's important to me. And what works to keep me sober and happy.
now's the time
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,181
I had a similar problem. Several of my most firmly held beliefs make the big book read like gibberish if you just try to switch vocabulary words.
I decided to A) assume that AA had at its core some truth that was valuable to me, and b) treat the big book and associated slogans like a foreign language that needed to be translated. So then it's not just swapping out a word, it's grammar, it's concepts, cultural assumptions.
I wrote a lot. For example, prayer. I wrote down what I think prayer is, what appeals to me about it, what bothers me about it, what I think people who pray get out of it. and how it relates to people in recovery. And I figured out things that I could do in my life, that are valuable in my spiritual understanding of the world, that I think accomplish the truth that people are pointing to when they tell me to pray.
I did this for a lot of concepts and continue to do it as things come up. It's definitely connected me more with my own spirituality... I never felt the pressure to define my beliefs before, so it's interesting to really get down into the nitty gritty with myself. And in the process I've connected more to other people's beliefs, because now I know how I relate to them.
I decided to A) assume that AA had at its core some truth that was valuable to me, and b) treat the big book and associated slogans like a foreign language that needed to be translated. So then it's not just swapping out a word, it's grammar, it's concepts, cultural assumptions.
I wrote a lot. For example, prayer. I wrote down what I think prayer is, what appeals to me about it, what bothers me about it, what I think people who pray get out of it. and how it relates to people in recovery. And I figured out things that I could do in my life, that are valuable in my spiritual understanding of the world, that I think accomplish the truth that people are pointing to when they tell me to pray.
I did this for a lot of concepts and continue to do it as things come up. It's definitely connected me more with my own spirituality... I never felt the pressure to define my beliefs before, so it's interesting to really get down into the nitty gritty with myself. And in the process I've connected more to other people's beliefs, because now I know how I relate to them.
Into the Void
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: California
Posts: 931
[QUOTE=ClearLight;5593281]At the place I go they say the Our Father at the end of the meeting. But not the Catholic version like I know. so I'm always mumbling the last words.
But in the meetings most folks use the term "higher power" when they talk and share.
there is stuff in AA I don't care for but so far I'm just picking the things I like. My guess is your God doesn't care if you mumble along a closing prayer.
You know, in the United States our national anthem is just a terrible song. Nobody knows the words and the melody is so poor. And most people don't even know what the song is about. But we all stand there and mumble our way through it.
Something to consider.
That reminds me of something similar I have witnessed regarding the Lord's Prayer. So where I attended high school about 90% of the students were Jewish. The coach for the football and lacrosse teams would have the teams recite the Lord's Prayer before games. He didn't seem especially religious so I assume he just did this because that is what they had done on teams at other schools he had attended. Because we were in an urban area and the Lord's Prayer is not part of the Jewish tradition, most of the team members mumbled and faked their way through the prayer, and that was that. I don't know what the point is except that for many saying the Lord's Prayer has become something of a meaningless civic ritual akin to singing the national anthem or reciting the pledge of allegiance. Of course, that's not true for everybody.
But in the meetings most folks use the term "higher power" when they talk and share.
there is stuff in AA I don't care for but so far I'm just picking the things I like. My guess is your God doesn't care if you mumble along a closing prayer.
You know, in the United States our national anthem is just a terrible song. Nobody knows the words and the melody is so poor. And most people don't even know what the song is about. But we all stand there and mumble our way through it.
Something to consider.
That reminds me of something similar I have witnessed regarding the Lord's Prayer. So where I attended high school about 90% of the students were Jewish. The coach for the football and lacrosse teams would have the teams recite the Lord's Prayer before games. He didn't seem especially religious so I assume he just did this because that is what they had done on teams at other schools he had attended. Because we were in an urban area and the Lord's Prayer is not part of the Jewish tradition, most of the team members mumbled and faked their way through the prayer, and that was that. I don't know what the point is except that for many saying the Lord's Prayer has become something of a meaningless civic ritual akin to singing the national anthem or reciting the pledge of allegiance. Of course, that's not true for everybody.
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