retroactive

I wanted to know how everyone on here interpreted the whole "higher power" thing. I have never been a religious person, and this is a major turn off for me. I believe that only I can make myself stop drinking, I am not willing to put faith in some outside guiding force to take care of the problem for me. I feel like I cant be the only one on these boards who feel this way.

zerothehero

There are alternatives to AA. It helps a lot of people, but it's not for me.

GracieLou

I have no religion. I grew up with none and I still have none.

I guess the question I have, do you believe there is anything greater than you?

It does not have to be "God". The universe perhaps? Something that has a higher power than you. That is all a HP is. Many call it God, I can call it Steve if I want to.

Some even look at the group of AA as their HP, GOD - Group of Drunks. Collectively they are more powerful then just one person.

countrygirl2014

^this

I battle with this one a lot. Anything greater than you. It doesn't have to be religious. One of my sponsors said their first higher power was nature.

You get to pick your own power higher than you.

I was also told to talk out loud to it. And from this point forward there are no coincidences. Ask out loud for a sign like in my case, I use an eagle or bird of prey. If I'm having a hard time I will see one somehow somewhere...even when I'm not looking.

I'm still wrapping my brain around it. But for some reason if I start my day acknowledging a power greater than myself, life goes pretty easy that way. Try it. What have you got to lose talking to yourself?

I should really take my own advice...lol

Jennifer

OnMyWay7

I read the book Unwasted (that was pretty good BTW) anyway she noted that for her her "higher power" is her wolfpack. The group of recovering alcoholics that watch over each other and sometimes her higher power is just the energy of the universe. I guess the moral is that if you let go of all the judgement of "higher power" and God and just do the work of praying you might get a lot out of it and it might help.

I'll try just about anything these days because I want to stay sober. I've let go of a lot of "what I believe is right and what society expects"

Good luck

Soberwolf

Have you checked out SR's Secular section Secular Connections - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Hope that helps Retro

biminiblue

I'm with Jen.

Start talking to your higher self. We all are born with it, it's a matter of tapping into it.

If you start asking [it] for help, you may be surprised by what happens. If you don't try, how will you know?

hypochondriac

I used group of drunks too. But ultimately I found that AA wasn't really for me. Mainly because of the structure of the meetings, I was so scared I never said a word but put me in a group where there's cross talk and you can't shut me up. Find alternate methods if you feel it doesn't suit, or do a bit of everything. Where I am I could go to an AA meeting every night of the week so I know they're there if I need them but they're not my main support.

awuh1

Why do you think all these different terms, i.e. higher power, power greater than ourselves, and God are all used instead of just... God? IMO it's because Mr Wilson wanted to keep the door as wide open as possible to everyone. He did not want to tell anyone what to believe. IMO He only meant to suggest that seeking resources outside of our own individual selves is something that can be beneficial. What we tap into is often quite different, and that's perfectly OK.

BTW, I don't think that you should equate the terms higher power, power greater than ourselves, or even God, with religion. I think Bill gives a good flavor for this in a talk about the third tradition you can see in this link (between the 4 minute and 6 minute mark). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSJB...4B8565&index=3

Religion implies that people share a belief in a specific definition of God or even the belief in *a* God. There is no such requirement in AA.

JadedGirl

This is one of the things that really triggers an annoyance in me and I don't mean to offend anyone but no 'higher power, god, whatever' has stopped me drinking. I've worked damn hard and struggled and worked my ass off to do this and I'm sorry but I'm taking every damn bit of credit for not buying or putting that drink to my mouth. If Im going to credit anyone else with helping that process it will be people here, my family friends and counsellor but ultimately I'm the one who has done this and (this is only my personal opinion) giving the credit to some higher power is negating the hard work I've put in every day. Btw it may tell but I'm struggling a bit tonight and the anger has kicked in a bit so sorry if this comes across a bit too 'attitude', don't mean it to xx

freshstart57

I have a strong belief in a higher power, a supreme being, and I always have. I had this faith as my alcohol consumption increased over the years, all the way into and out of my addiction to alcohol, and it hasn't wavered. It just has been completely unrelated to both becoming dependent and addicted to alcohol, and kicking it.

However, I believe my actions are my own. I take credit for the good things I do, and I take responsibility for the bad things I do. I believe that my higher power, my supreme being, has given me free will, and He also has provided me the tools I needed to quit drinking when I finally made that decision.

I quit drinking, and you can quit drinking too, retro. You can decide to do it, and do it. No HP required. The only person here who feels as you do? Certainly not. You are in good company here, make no mistake about that.

If you want HP free discussions, take a look at the Secular Connections forum. Lots of support for you there.

Joe Nerv

I grew up in catholic school. In the 2nd grade I realized the many contradictions I was being taught. Religious instruction in the morning conflicted with science class in the afternoon, science made much more sense to me, and I pretty much quit god. That god, andyhow... for good.

I always believed however that there was some incredible force/power in the universe that gives life, keeps the planets in order, and does many incredible things I'm quite certain humans will never be able to. When I was near death from drinking, and I saw the 12 steps for the first time I decided I'd be able to call that universal power, god. For simplicity sake. I don't believe there's any human like being out there calling all the shots, but I believe there's a power far greater than me, that can be tapped into. I started doing that, through prayer and practice of the 12 steps and I guess I was open minded enough for it to work. I'm on my 31st year sober, and I am a completely different person than the person who needed to drink every single day without fail. I went from a non functioning agoraphobic HS dropout who never had anything in his life before sobriety, to a school teacher (of all things), and wound up living out a whole bunch of my dreams. Even got married 4 years ago, something I was certain wasn't possible for me. I've traveled many parts of the world, gotten in the best shape of my life, become a landlord (I was content spending the rest of my life in my parents house - and thought I would). I know too that there's still more to come.

The way I see it, some people believe there's a power inside themselves, some believe it's outside. Some I guess think they're more powerful than anything else, but I see that as just plain silly. I've seen what a hurricane can do. To me whether a power is inner, or outer makes no difference. I don't know where the power is, but again, I'm willing to call it god and apply it in my life as written out in the steps. Ultimately, I'm my own master. I can go to the corner right now and buy a 6 pack. There's no spirit in the sky stopping me. I have no desire to do that however, and I therefore don't tinker a whole lot with what is working.

I believe people with the most open minds, and most willingness have the easiest time getting sober. I guess those with iron will power do it without much problem too, but that for certain wasn't me. And I have no shame in admitting that. What I did got the same results. Whatever works....

JadedGirl

I think everyone has to use what works for them and to be honest I do believe in something bigger than us (not necessarily a bearded man in the sky) but something bigger, a universal energy that influences us all. Personally though I HAVE to believe that it is me that has done this and has complete control over my abstinence. In the same way as I haven't told a friend who also drinks a lot that I've given up yet as I don't feel strong enough to hear 'your fine, everyone drinks every night, don't worry' because I don't want to be encouraged or hear it's ok. In the same respect if I give credit to something bigger than me for remaining strong, if I choose to have a drink does that mean that this 'higher power' hasn't been strong enough for me. (For me, and this is just my feeling at the moment) that takes away from my personal responsibility. I have to feel that I am the only one who is responsible if I mess this up. My self esteem is pretty fragile and I know if I don't succeed at this I will beat myself up and my self esteem and confidence will hit rock bottom and that's what's keeping me strong. i think that's what I mean when I can't give anything else any iota of responsibility for my actions, good or bad at the moment.
I do have the utmost respect for everyone's beliefs though and I think having a strength wherever it comes from is positive.
I'm doing my level one reiki in a few weeks so in that respect I'll be channelling a higher energy for healing but that will still be secondary to my own free will (if this makes sense) xx

Hawks

Bill Wilson was not too hot on the God stuff either and Dr Bob went under sufferance to church at the insistence of his wife, who was hoping it might straighten him out.

Look what happened though as a result of taking the steps (the ones they had at the time anyway)...... They started an organisation that provides millions of alcoholic folk with a way out.

Isn't that a great demonstration of what is on offer, if YOU can overcome your fears and jump in??

EndGameNYC

My studies in philosophy predated my first time sober, which lasted for twenty five years. The "God Problem" in philosophy is about proving the existence of God (or not), and how it is that people tend use the deity to vicariously save themselves from unhappy lives with the promise of an eternally happy afterlife. Or to excuse bad behavior. Or to control the masses. Or to shirk personal responsibility. But faith is not the same as proof; rather one is diametrically opposed to the other. I didn't care about my reservations around seeing the word 'God' in the AA Big Book Twelve Steps at my first meeting. Being raised a Catholic and all that entailed in that time and place only filled me with revulsion for organized religion generally. The expression "recovering Catholic" became popular some time in the 1990s, as I recall, for good reason.

I never pretended to believe in a higher power in all the years I've spent in AA, although I have used that expression in the service of clarity and expedience. I'm humbled by the awesome Universe and the enormity of Existence; I don't need to attribute this to a spiritual Commander-In-Chief. When I've spoken about faith, it's been along the lines of my believing that there was and is a better way for me in life, not in the belief of a displaced spirit who rewarded me for my good deeds, or who punished me for my bad behavior. God is not a vending machine, and faith in God does not come with a money-back guarantee. For me, to speak about faith, my faith, is often to trivialize it.

Here's the thing...If I'm so overcome by my resistance to faith in a Supreme Being, then I am also forever victim to both the idea and to the practice, so much so that I'll avoid anything that hints at such a belief. I'm a spiritual or religious reactionary with little tolerance for those who believe. In such a case, and being who I am, I would have to ask myself why it is that I experience such revulsion to something that does not directly involve me, that does not influence me (or so I might think), and that does not play any meaningful role in my life, even though it does for so many people. Within the context of alcoholism and recovery, why am I participating in an internal religious war when my life is falling down all around me?

If AA hadn't "worked" for me, it wouldn't have been because God or a higher power is part of the program, particularly since belief in God is not an issue for me. No one in AA ever told me that I would die or that I couldn't get sober without God in my life or in my program, despite the fact that I met many people who were zealous about God and religion in AA. And I never had a reason to think so on my own. I'm sure other people have had different experiences. One of my friends in AA, former NYPD and nineteen years sober likes to say, "It's a God program." (I can feel some people's skin crawling at reading this. ) It never bothered me, and usually made sense. I have a condition that defies reason and logic; I do what hurts me and hurts other people, even though I don't want to hurt myself or anyone else. Why wouldn't there be a solution that does the same? The paradox, for me, is exquisite. Science could not save me. "Evidence based treatment" (the calling card for all that is good and right in the contemporary treatment of all things; the modern day deus ex machina) could not save me. There is nothing that science has to offer me in terms of my getting and remaining sober.

AA tells us that all we need for membership is "a desire to stop drinking," not "a 100% certainty, conviction or commitment to stop drinking." If you go to an AA meeting with no desire at all to stop drinking (which, some might say is contradicted by your attendance), you will not be turned away unless you are disruptive. Nor does AA tells us that we need a complete and unwavering faith in God or a higher power. If you can't get past the reality that some people will emphasize faith or faith in God in AA, then don't go. I worked the AA Big Book Twelve Steps without either excommunication or police involvement, despite the fact that my emphasis was on action rather than belief in a higher power.

Nobody wants to be an alcoholic. Nobody goes to AA because they're happy with their lives, or because they've always looked forward to being in AA. We often read comments like, "AA isn't for me," or "I don't like AA." Nobody likes AA. You're not supposed to like it when you're trying to get sober. More often than not, you're there because you're miserable. Why wouldn't you find a way not to be there? I didn't like AA, and AA wasn't for me either. I also didn't like any other type of treatment or program that would help me to live a sober life. What I liked was drinking. What I liked much less than AA was my slow and systematic suicide.

Many people avoid consulting medical doctors. What if they find out there's something wrong with me? What if I have to take my clothes off for him or her to examine me? What if they touch me? What if I have to change my diet or stop smoking/drinking/overeating/sitting around all day in order to save my life? I don't want to change my diet, exercise or take medication that makes me feel "weird." What if I have cancer? Diabetes? High blood pressure?

If a medical doctor advertised that spiritual fitness were an important part of his practice, I imagine that he or she would have less business than otherwise. But if your doctor is able to communicate to you that good emotional or spiritual health contributes to good physical health, you might take that knowledge to heart, given that it's coming from your doctor. I doubt many people would argue against emotional stability or spiritual tools as part of their fight against cancer or heart disease. (There is what I think is an outstanding program for children fighting cancer, known as "Kids Kicking Cancer" that provides for emotional and spiritual fitness within the context of their medical treatment.)

Philosophy, personal convictions and religious orientation went out the window for me when I came to understand that I was fighting for my life.

This isn't a promotion for AA. They don't need it. The OP implicitly references AA and refers directly to the concept of the "God Problem" and a "higher power." I don't care where people go to or how they get sober. If you don't at least have a little bit of faith that you can heal, that you can live a better life, that you don't have to drown in misery for the rest of your life, then there is no program that will save you. And even if it is only pain that drives you to sobriety, then you've certainly got a good chance recover.

FeenixxRising

Retro, there are atheists and agnostics who have found a "higher power" they could use to work the 12-Steps. On the other hand, many spiritual/religious people do not accept the 12-Step spiritual doctrine. For example, while I'm a spiritual person, I don't believe God wants me to turn my will and my life over to his care. IMO, that is not how God works. Rather God has given me all the tools (a brain, rational thinking, will power etc.) I need to quit drinking without his help and intervention into my life.

My point is that there are many roads to sobriety. If AA and the 12-Steps don't fit with your beliefs, you are free to try one of the many other approaches to achieving and staying sober.

anattaboy

Gravity, judges and time are my higher powers--sometimes the wife. I understand the need to connect but we all quit the same way. My group accepts this atheist, ex-con, father, husband, carpenter, Buddhist, armchair philosopher and it really turned around when I accepted them. I've done the steps and drank more than once so don't see them as a cure. I do see not drinking and doing my best daily as a sustainable plan and so far it has been. Best wishes on finding what works for you. Some still infer rather strongly sometimes that I MUST have a higher power and I nod and ask how their kids are doing or something calmly and that works fine.

PurpleKnight

God or a faith hasn't in anyway been a part of my Sobriety.

But then again I don't use AA within my recovery plan, so it's not a hurdle when the resources used for support doesn't include the mention of a "higher power".

For me quitting drinking was something I reached an acceptance of that had to be done, and if it was that important then I needed to take control of my decisions, the activities I got involved in, the people I hung out with, my habits, my routines, my life needed to be revolutionised with actions to stop the facilitation of alcohol.

Where did that strength come from? well one day I woke up and said this life cannot continue and I need to do everything in MY POWER to make it happen, and if it doesn't happen then I'm not being radical enough in my decision making or actions, so I need to tweak things until I get there.

So it definitely can be done without getting too hung up on the definition of a "higher power", the main problem is continuing to drink, crack that and you're on a winner!!

sugarbear1

The way I see it, if ALL other ways fail, then maybe try working those steps. AA can be the last house on the block....

those steps saved my Life.

Fly N Buy

You are not the only one - you might find this gent if interest if you're considering AA at all.
If not, there are several options.

Glad you're here and hope you find what works for you !!

Jim Burwell | AA Agnostica