dSober

Step 5: Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

Which one are you? Remember the googling rule.

LBrain

A priest told me one time that god answers all prayers. Sometimes he just says no. Go figure.

freshstart57

I am Christian too, and it was those questions you have, YoungandClean, that ultimately failed to be addressed for me in any way that came close to making sense. That dogma did not jive with my world view and general outlook. I have a perfectly good HP and he doesn't play well with others.

My HP gave me the ability to choose how I behave, and that includes choosing to drink myself to a death of misery and shame, or choosing to quit alcohol and simply not drinking anymore. Ever.

You can do that too, YoungandClean. You can choose to never drink again, no matter what, and sticking to it. The rewards are beyond measure.

TSDD

Have you considered the possibility that he doesn't like you? Possibly it's all those commandments you broke?

Seriously, though, that's a loaded question to which you're not going to get an answer that will satisfy you, so how about instead of trying to disprove God, or argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, you look to find some other tools to help you stay clean for a day?

I'll wager you're clever enough to go on a 3 day bender with only 5$ in your pocket, so put some of that resourcefulness to use finding some ways to NOT go out and get loaded.

If you have an axe to grind against God, don't worry about it. Plenty of men and women stay sober without believing in anything of the sort. Work on staying sober and you'll develop a faith (or lack thereof) that works for you along the road.

whalebelow

That I run on fear for the most part. Anger was another major.

dSober

Yeah, that was a biggie for me too.

YoungAndClean

I am hearing some interesting responses but none that clear up for me why it would be unreasonable to ask our HP to remove the desire to drink/use permanently. To do so for a typical alcoholic would not only cause love, peace, and increased faith within the alcoholic, but also the family members too. It would be a win-win.

If I were to ask God to remove the obsession to drink, I could be free to move on with my life without needing to constantly refer to myself as an alcoholic till the end of my days. I don't deny being an alcoholic, but I sure hate being one though it's the worst thing thats ever happened to me. They say this is an incurable disease, but surely God could achieve what men could not and cure these sick people? With such discouraging longterm recovery statistics and millions of people still caught in active addiction, if science can't cure us, why can't God?

Perhaps God thinks a solution through actions such as: a daily reprieve, meetings, sponsorship, etc. is adequate for alcoholic/addicts because they don't deserve a cure due to their bad behavior. People pray to be cured from all kinds of diseases and hardships in life, but since I'm an alcoholic the best I can expect is a life forever shaped be alcohol no matter how many years I haven't been drinking. I will live the rest of my life one drink away from total destruction.

I think I'm not alone in feeling like the HP/God solution isn't all its cracked up to be. I think for the majority of alcoholics/addicts, they won't be satisfied in the aloofness of a HP and how when they really are close to using/drinking, even prayer won't stop them from picking up again. I'm angry that God has chosen not to remove my insane desire to use drugs, and if all it took were a simple prayer asking my HP to remove the obessesion, I wouldn't feel this way. But apparently not even my HP can keep me sober, and forget about being cured, that would be asking for too much.

This has turned into a rant and I apologize for offending anyone or discouraging their faith. I have a lot of turmoil going on in my life right now and I'm quite bitter so take my words with a grain of salt and if you don't agree please dont tell me I'm stupid or wrong for the way im feeling.

Dee74

Gotta say...I'm still uncomfortable with the thought that we deserve a cure.

I'm a guy with a roof over my head, money in the bank, reasonable health...I can think of a lot of people in other parts of the world who deserve God's attention and grace a lot more than me.

but anyway..no, it's not unreasonable to ask at all YAC.

But if you're not getting the result you want - and clearly you're not - I think it's well worth your time to really dig in and investigate why...start with you rather than God...it'll be easier that way

D

dSober

It's simple Young but not that easy. You have to do the work. You have to work the steps, thoroughly. They are proven to work when you do. They are also proven to not work when you don't.

whalebelow

The chapter in the book is titled "How it Works "

Not "tell us and yourself how YOU think it SHOULD work"

Soberwolf

This is exactly how i feel

freshstart57

Ask Him, or don't ask Him, suit yourself. Here's a thing, YoungAndClean. You ARE free to move on with your life. It is not necessary for you to constantly refer to yourself as anything til your end of days.

I know you have been told all sorts of stuff that you don't really find helpful, not your fault. It IS your fault if you continue to believe it. You get to frame this problem in a way that makes sense to you, you get make this thing be what suits you. It only makes sense to look at this in whatever way will take you to that place where you understand that it is up to you.

You can choose to quit, you have everything you need already. Believe in yourself, believe that you deserve a life without addiction. Then, go get it, and accept nothing less. Onward!

mfanch

Perhaps because there is no god. Just throwing that out there.

For me it doesn't matter if there is a god or not. I have to rewire my brain so that I can change my relationship with chemicals. I used to obsess and crave, but now I am indifferent. As long as I engage in the actions that got me clean, I trust that I will stay clean. Maybe what we are all talking about here is a return to using....as in a cure means that I can drink and use successfully without suffering the side effects of addiction. Well, I have no space in my life for that anymore, so even if I were cured, I am not interested. Ain't nobody got time for that. I feel as though I am on to bigger and better things.

BadCompany

If you had the answer to that question, would it change your situation any?

Eddiebuckle

When I first quit drinking, I thought it was ridiculous to expect a HP to save me from drinking. In the almost five years since, I have come to understand that HP is about spirituality, and spirituality can help me face the things that I used to drink over.

Whether you choose to incorporate a deity in your spirituality is up to you. It is about spirituality as you understand it, because if you don't buy it, you won't trust it. And when those times come, if you don't trust it, you'll find yourself in exactly the same position as all the times before - helpless.

whalebelow

Funny how we all wanna know very badly, "what's in store for me if I take these steps? "

And yet, you never see an alchy conducting a survey outside a bottle store

"hey, what do you think will happen if I buy 4 litres of high power cheap wine and drink it and do that for the next 5 years, do you think my guts will fall out one day? "

Ashamedof

I understand how you feel young and clean ...as much as I've tried to believe we were created from a man in the sky, my brain always accepts the Big Bang theory or rather, science. I've been to church, prayed etc. I'm not sure why? I just can't accept it..I'm confused too. I always think "if god existed, why does he allow children to be molested, abused, raped, murdered, born with cancer or AIDS?" I just don't understand it. For me, I have to find the power within my own self. No one is coming to save me and once I accepted that? It's given me some ambition in becoming the best version of me that I can. I feel like, in the end, I'm all I really have...
Whatever works for an addict is great and whatever that is, they need to hold onto it!

I don't judge others on what they choose to believe or not believe in, it's not my place.
I'm just a small pea in this great big universe.
I would love to have had a dad that wasn't a crack head growing up, a mother that told me she loved me and comforted me, not have been raped, abused and discarded like a piece of meat. Those times I was being abused, I prayed for GOD to save me and he never came. It's then that I realized no one was even there, I was talking to air.
That doesn't mean that we can't sustain sobriety though.
If you're just praying without any real conviction that you believe I think it's probably a waste of time for you. IMO.

I just wanted to say, I understand...

whalebelow

Most of that stuff happens because WE do it.

We rape, we kill, we starve the Africans, we build the bombs, we hurt the ones we are supposed to love.

Diseases are a mystery to me, the only answer I have is that Earth is not Heaven.

Earth can be Hell.

In Heaven there is no suffering, no pain, no disease.

FormerDrunkGuy

If there is a God he did not make me a drunk, or help me to quit. In fact I don't think God has anything to do with it, it's just my own free will to drink or not to drink.

Our free will and the choices we make are what effect those around us, this is not God's fault.

Gronk

I'm way past agnostic.......but atheist seems like a stupid label. I'm just me......but, who cares? People believe, don't, doesn't matter. Some at AA talk about God, like I said, who cares, that's them, I'm me.

It's not worth my time thinking about it. If I had proof it was false, I wouldn't share it.

Ps typing on this iPad stinks......maybe the HP could take of that while he's getting rid of my addiction......