MythOfSisyphus

I'm sorry to hear about the rift with your son, W. It would be nice to be able to enjoy your family in your "golden years"- by this time everyone is a grown up and one would hope they'd act like it. I don't think it's your fault or that your drinking in past years lead to this; at a certain point your kind of transcend your upbringing, and by his 50's he should have done so.

I wish I had some good advice! I think it's the natural order of things for sons and fathers to clash as the boy becomes a man. Generally things get better as the kid grows into maturity. At least that's the way it was for me. Sadly my own dad passed away three years back. We were on great terms by then but of course I wish we'd have had more years than we did.

It's not clear what more you can do than you've already tried to do. It sounds like he doesn't even want to provide contact information. If you can get ahold of him by phone maybe you can just let him know in a non-judgemental way that you're there for him if he wants to talk.

I wish people had as good of people skills as dogs do!

MythOfSisyphus

Let me just unhelpfully add this; maybe the hardest thing in life to accomplish is acceptance. At some point you've done all that can be done. I'm not saying you're at that point but if you are, I guess all that you can do is try to be okay with the fact that it's not okay. Stupid as that sounds...

wpainterw

Thanks Myth of Sisyphus. Your words are always helpful. You wrote "I think it's the natural order of things for sons and fathers to clash as the boy becomes a man." With my son and me there was no "clash" over all those years. Just his passively sitting there and saying as little as possible. Rarely asking me how I was, what I was doing, reading, etc. Merely responding to questions but more recently spending most of the time fooling with his SmartPhone, maybe playing computer games. If I asked him how he felt about something in his personal life he'd volunteer as little as possible. He and I have dwelt in different galaxies. I wish him well in his. And I particularly wish well any woman who succeeds where many have tried, have failed either intentionally or despite their good intentions.

W.

Nuudawn

I guess there's your answer. So sorry this is causing you grief. Like SJ, I only have fur offspring myself...yet I imagine the parental bond is something like steel in strength therefore darn near impossible to let go of those who don't want to be held as close as we desire.

I'm glad you're pooch was there for you though. They are such a comfort.

Fandy

It's really on your son for his lack of communication, not you. If he wants to be selfish and rude to his elderly parents, it reflects badly on him, not you.
I often wonder what goes through my daughter's mind when she pulls this type of crap, but it's all on her, not me anymore... I stopped making excuses for her bad behavior.

Anna

Bill, I am a parent of two grown children and I know that being a parent is the most difficult job in the world. As a parent, we feel responsible and that, maybe we didn't do enough, or maybe we did too much.

Your son has made choices as to how he wants to live his life, and it sounds like he's not open to sharing his life with anyone, including his wife/SO and you and your wife. I'm sure it must be very sad for you, especially at this point in your life. I hope you continue to stay open to him and let him know that you love him. And, I think your dog is brilliant.

silentrun

I have no words of wisdom for you Painter. Just wanted to let you know I really enjoy reading your posts and I'm sorry this has you down.

autumn2

As a parent of an estranged child,I know exactly how you feel. I just don't understand it. Where it really comes home to me is when someone ask me how he's doing. ( Uh, I don't know. I haven't spoken to him in a few years. Wouldn't even know how to contact him.) I think most people truly pity me over this,and for that reason they don't even ask (the ones that know me well.) Thank God that they don't because it just makes me bust out crying,

One thing no parent should ever have to go through,is watching the news,and hearing them speak of an unidentified body. Wondering if that could be your child. It is a living hell that has no closure.

There was never any abuse in the home. He had mostly anything he ever wanted. He has been gone since 18. At least I raised him good enough where he was willing and able to make it on his own.

My sisters son is in his 30's and still has to have mommy do everything for him. It's really sickening.

Sorry for a life story.lol I have no advice,because I don't understand it myself. If you have talked to him lately,consider yourself lucky. At least you know his whereabouts.

MythOfSisyphus

Not intending to meddle, and acknowledging that it doesn't change anything, it almost sounds like a borderline-Asperger's type thing. Is he closed off and inaccessible to everyone? I gather he's been this way most of his life? I know you said he was a nice kid when he was young, just wonder what the inner life is like there and how he came to be this way.

Sasha4

The only advice or knowledge I can offer is from my own experience.

I am a single mum.

My relationship was bad and we spilt up. We split up twice along the way. He left when my baby was 3 months old and then just before she was 4 years old.
This was about a year ago. He met someone else.

In the end not really to do with drinking, but I won't doubt that it didn't have had an impact along the way.

I tell my parents very little now.

The first time it happened, they swooped in telling me what I needed to to do in terms of maintenance, the joint house, my daughter etc etc. This was a couple of days after he had gone.

I was very overwhelmed by them as I was 36 years old and I wanted to do things my way.

I don't think they realised I was in no fit state to be making those types of decisions so soon. I was in shock and had barely cried. I also had not slept for more than 2 hours since the arrival of my baby.

So at that time the reason I told them so little was because of their complete lack of empathy that I could not snap into action and start legal proceedings, getting rid of the house etc. I just wanted to cry.

I took him back.
He left again.

This time I felt shame.
I felt shame that I did not seem to be able to maintain a happy family unit.
I felt shame that I contributed to my daughters beloved father leaving her.
I was obviously so horrid a person, I made her daddy go live with another woman and her 2 children, one of whom is the same age as her.

And I had caused shame for them being their daughter who was involved in a dead end relationship and had child without a father.
I had brought shame on them.

This is just about me though. I don't think this about any other single parents. I know many single parents are proud of what they have achieved and they should be.
This shame is just reserved for me.
I don't want anyone here to be offended and think that this is how I view them too.

I'm still single.
My every waking moment is devoted to my daughter.

But I still want to hide from my parents and the shame that I have brought them and I am associated with.
So I tell them little.
By that I mean I don't tell them how I feel, if I am lonely, if I am worried, if I'm having a hard time.
I know that times have moved on.
The image of the 'perfect nuclear family' as changed.
But I still feel shame and extreme sadness.

I have my daughter with me.
My parents, her grand parents see her a lot even though most of it is when I am not there.
I imagine it must be even harder if it is the son and his parents and the child or children are difficult to see due to access. The must make things even harder.

I wish you the best xx

wpainterw

Sasha4: You wrote, "The first time it happened, they swooped in telling me what I needed to to do in terms of maintenance, the joint house, my daughter etc etc. This was a couple of days after he had gone. I was very overwhelmed by them as I was 36 years old and I wanted to do things my way."

I'm so sorry you went through all of this. But with me it was different. The boy shut me out of his life when he was 12 or 13. And it's been that way for 40 years. I tried to reach out to him many times. Back in 1988 he said that he'd try to reach back. After that he had two divorces, two spoiled and distant children and now this. I have never tried to "intermeddle" since, because of my program, I have come to believe that I should not try to change the things which cannot be changed and I hope I have been given the wisdom to know the difference. Any footprint that I may leave behind me may soon be covered by the shifting sands of the culture in which we have come to live.

W.

Sasha4

I'm sorry he did that.
As a parent I cannot imagine anything worse.
Take care
xx

wpainterw

Thanks Sasha. My son will visit us shortly with his new girlfriend to "celebrate" his birthday- at least my wife thinks he should do that. The girlfriend is an Italian. I may ask her if she is familiar with the great Italian tenor, Enrico Caruso's, famous aria from Pagliacci, "Vesti la giubba". "Celebrate" when one's heart is broken.

W.

wpainterw

Sasha:
P.S. In the opera Caruso played the role of a clown who was required to be "funny", "celebrate" when his heart was broken. My son may feel that way. I do. The Italians know sadness. There was such sadness in Caruso's voice. Also there was the great Italian poet, Dante, who in midlife, like my son, described his sadness:

“In the midway of this our mortal life,
I found me in a gloomy wood, astray
Gone from the path direct: and e’en to tell,
It were no easy task, how savage wild
That forest, how robust and rough its growth,
Which to remember only, my dismay
Renews, in bitterness not far from death...


Dante, Inferno, Canto I
H.F.Cary trans.



W.

Croissant

Wpainter...I'm sorry it must be disappointing at this time in your life to still not have the bond you may have hoped for with your son. I imagine that must be hard.

I read a few of your posts where you say he made mistakes with women etc...I wonder if he feels he does not meet your expectations, or resented your opinions in the past therefore he closed up?

I know you say you have not tried to control him and kept out of his business...but off hand comments can be taken the wrong way. Your comment about talking to his new partner about teaching, then asking him what footprint he has left on the world....please don't take this the wrong way, but that's a pretty confronting thing to say to someone, particularly in front of a new partner.

It kind of says, "well, what have you done with your life?"...I don't think we have the right to make that judgement as parents or fellow adults. We all have our own paths and lessons to learn.

Just some thoughts. I hope the visit goes well.

wpainterw

I think your point is well taken. I mentioned it only out of bitterness and would not say that. I completely agree. On the other hand, I have never said to him that he made mistakes with women, although he did. I kept my mouth shut. He clammed up on me at age 12 or 13 and has been that way for forty years. He started doing that in the 1960's when he fell under the influence of a friend who persuaded him that his parents were all wrong and that the best rule of life is, "If it feels good, then go ahead and do it!" and also "Have the Honeymoon first. Marry them later, if you have to!" "Don't worry! Be Happy!". Is he happy now? I don't think so! He's been unhappy for about thirty years.


W.

Soberpotamus

Are you looking for justification, or a new perspective on your relationship with your son? We can make all sorts of justifications and explanations. But it's hard sometimes to open our eyes to the fact that maybe our perception of things might have been wrong all along.

I say this because your thread has helped me a little. Reading through this today and yesterday, I'm inspired to think of my relationship with my dad differently.

So what if he is wrong to always wait for me to initiate? So what if he always thinks he is justified and right. He comes across as someone who is never wrong. He even told me he'd forgive me for being a problem drinker/alcoholic. As if it's something he should forgive!!

I say these things not because your situation is similar or the same. But because I am thankful your thread is helping me question how to approach my father in the future.

So, thanks, W

I don't want to die angry with my father, and I don't want him to die feeling ignored by me.

firstymer

I love my children dearly. And I try so hard to be a good parent to them. But they don't treat me very well. They are usually indifferent to me. They frequently seem to be either disdainful of or embarrassed by me. That treatment hurts more than almost any other pain that comes my way - the rejection by someone that you love.

I try to make myself feel better by saying that as long as I am doing my best, I can't really control how others treat me. That their treatment of me doesn't matter as much as my treatment of them, and my treatment of myself. Sometimes that works for me. Sometimes it doesn't.

All of us here who know you know that you deserve better treatment. I hope you realize that. And I hope it helps, if only a little bit.

FWIW, I would be honored to have a father who is like you.

wpainterw

Thank you so much! It is hard to be a parent and it is hard to have a parent. I like what Lincoln said, "I've tried to do the best I knew how". But maybe that's not enough. I guess I could always have done it a little bit better. But back in those days, the Sixties, my wife (of 59 years now) and I felt that we were fighting a whole emerging culture, a culture of protest, self indulgence, substance abuse, a whole different perspective on sex, which to some, seemed about as meaningful as brushing one's teeth, necessary and pleasurable but little more than that. Our kids paid more attention to their peers, the schools, etc. than to us, whom they were sometimes told not to respect. Ours was a very tough fight indeed. And often we were criticized as "overbearing", "stuffy", "confrontational". Perhaps we were. And then again perhaps we wanted our kids to be happy later on because we loved them. In any case, our kids, rightly or wrongly, seemed rebellious and later some of them, at least one of them in our case, became unhappy. thirty years of unhappiness. A hard, bitter price to pay.

W.

wpainterw

Soberjennie:
I hear you. Whether it's the parent or the offspring, I think that the Buddhists and others in the Far East said it so well thousands of years ago. After knowledge comes understanding and after understanding comes forgiveness. Forgiveness of others and of oneself. I must try to follow that path.

W.