NEW here! A few questions regarding "casual drinking" and other stuff
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
I thought that since I was an alcoholic, I naturally understood the nature of this disease. Not.
My reasons for drinking were abnormal and rooted in abnormality. So, there was no "normal" to go back to.
That is the psychology part, but there is a physical part. I believe we have a lot to discover about alcoholism and that someday we will find a gene or a defect that prevents the 7 to 10% of the population from being able to drink non-addictively.
My reasons for drinking were abnormal and rooted in abnormality. So, there was no "normal" to go back to.
That is the psychology part, but there is a physical part. I believe we have a lot to discover about alcoholism and that someday we will find a gene or a defect that prevents the 7 to 10% of the population from being able to drink non-addictively.
Stingy athlete recovery method
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: U. S. A.
Posts: 754
Hi Grubby. Glad you joined SR! I don't have any definite answers for your questions, but I do look forward to reading more of your posts. You have already started a lively discussion that I find most interesting.
Hears The Voice
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Unshackled
Posts: 7,901
Originally Posted by littlefish 
I thought that since I was an alcoholic, I naturally understood the nature of this disease. Not.
I self-identified as an alcoholic in 1991, but I didn't know what being addicted to alcohol actually meant until 2013. Knowledge is power.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,513
As others have said, a period of abstinence does not lead to controlled drinking. The line we cross becoming alcoholics is invisible, but it is real. And, there is no going back.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,784
Welcome to SR. I had six months sober once and then drank for two days. I had the worst withdrawal I'd ever had, I was sicker than I'd ever been. 
I tried to moderate my drinking many times, never could manage it. I can't drink like a normal person and don't want to try anymore.
I've been sober over four years now and really like my sober life. I have no desire to drink again, ever.
I had six months sober once and then drank for two days. I had the worst withdrawal I'd ever had, I was sicker than I'd ever been. 
I tried to moderate my drinking many times, never could manage it. I can't drink like a normal person and don't want to try anymore.
I've been sober over four years now and really like my sober life. I have no desire to drink again, ever.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
" I genuinely enjoy drinking... "
this isn't stuff I enjoy( posted by you in another thread):
One day, you decide to quit or even just "cut back a little". Then all hell breaks loose, you barely sleep for a week or more, you feel like crap, you are EXHAUSTED. You feel your heart pounding, you get the shakes. No one told you about this part, you "didn't think it would be this bad". You go to your doctor, you scour the internet, and learn that "withdrawal" may take months. This isn't even including PAWS, which you are also just now learning about. Even worse, you learn that you may NEVER be able to have another drink lest you trigger another "withdrawal" episode.
"Withdrawal? No, no, no... I thought that was only for HARD drugs like crack and meth", you think to yourself.
You go back and look at some old bank statements and begin to tally up just how much money you had been blowing on this habit... $4 here, $6 here, $9 here, $11 there, $23 over here. You think to yourself "damn..."
You go look in the mirror and notice your skin looks a little more "aged" than it should be. You notice the bags under your eyes from the lack of sleep. Maybe you put on an extra pound or two from your over-indulging on food at social gatherings while under the influence.
You notice that you don't enjoy other activities like you used to... you had become so accustomed to using alcohol as a "band-aid" for pretty much every time you felt bored or down that you've "forgotten" how to be happy on your own.
this isn't stuff I enjoy( posted by you in another thread):
One day, you decide to quit or even just "cut back a little". Then all hell breaks loose, you barely sleep for a week or more, you feel like crap, you are EXHAUSTED. You feel your heart pounding, you get the shakes. No one told you about this part, you "didn't think it would be this bad". You go to your doctor, you scour the internet, and learn that "withdrawal" may take months. This isn't even including PAWS, which you are also just now learning about. Even worse, you learn that you may NEVER be able to have another drink lest you trigger another "withdrawal" episode.
"Withdrawal? No, no, no... I thought that was only for HARD drugs like crack and meth", you think to yourself.
You go back and look at some old bank statements and begin to tally up just how much money you had been blowing on this habit... $4 here, $6 here, $9 here, $11 there, $23 over here. You think to yourself "damn..."
You go look in the mirror and notice your skin looks a little more "aged" than it should be. You notice the bags under your eyes from the lack of sleep. Maybe you put on an extra pound or two from your over-indulging on food at social gatherings while under the influence.
You notice that you don't enjoy other activities like you used to... you had become so accustomed to using alcohol as a "band-aid" for pretty much every time you felt bored or down that you've "forgotten" how to be happy on your own.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 476
Day 34.
So I finally got around to reading some of you guys well thought-out responses. but I have a quandary.........
If it's true that our brains are forever altered from our chronic alcohol abuse, there are grave implications:
- Does this mean we must forever be on guard regarding everything we ingest because there MIGHT be alcohol in it? Most mouthwash brands, nyquil, "alcohol coated" foods such as certain chicken wing brands, and etc? Are we doomed to forever be super paranoid in this regard?
- Does this mean that there are only 2 choices for people who enjoy drinking? It seems that EITHER you abuse and indulge alcohol for a short period of time..... say a few years, and ruin/spoil your brain forever........ OR you stay a "casual" drinker and drink only like once or twice a month and avoid most of the downsides.
- Im reading that a lot of these depressant drugs seem to act on the same parts and receptors in the brain to produce that "relaxed" effect, does this mean that in the future if we for example try a different drug like weed for example..... that we might inadvertently trigger withdrawal symptoms?? It's scary to think about triggering another episode of withdrawal simply by smoking a blunt or something similar.......
And, to answer a few questions earlier...... yes, i am (was) an alcoholic, i see this now. hindsight really is 20/20. When you are on it you think to yourself "nah, im in control..... im not out starting fights or anything, im not an alcoholic"..... then when your bottle gets taken away your body throws a fit like a baby
Now that I've sobered up i'm surprised at how my dad hasn't died yet, he is 66 and continues to drink daily..... continues to smoke daily..... continues to drink coffee every 3 hours or so. I also know an 86 year old lady who smokes a pack of cigs a day, it's bizarre....... some people really are freaks of nature lol
So I finally got around to reading some of you guys well thought-out responses. but I have a quandary.........
If it's true that our brains are forever altered from our chronic alcohol abuse, there are grave implications:
- Does this mean we must forever be on guard regarding everything we ingest because there MIGHT be alcohol in it? Most mouthwash brands, nyquil, "alcohol coated" foods such as certain chicken wing brands, and etc? Are we doomed to forever be super paranoid in this regard?
- Does this mean that there are only 2 choices for people who enjoy drinking? It seems that EITHER you abuse and indulge alcohol for a short period of time..... say a few years, and ruin/spoil your brain forever........ OR you stay a "casual" drinker and drink only like once or twice a month and avoid most of the downsides.
- Im reading that a lot of these depressant drugs seem to act on the same parts and receptors in the brain to produce that "relaxed" effect, does this mean that in the future if we for example try a different drug like weed for example..... that we might inadvertently trigger withdrawal symptoms?? It's scary to think about triggering another episode of withdrawal simply by smoking a blunt or something similar.......
And, to answer a few questions earlier...... yes, i am (was) an alcoholic, i see this now. hindsight really is 20/20. When you are on it you think to yourself "nah, im in control..... im not out starting fights or anything, im not an alcoholic"..... then when your bottle gets taken away your body throws a fit like a baby
Now that I've sobered up i'm surprised at how my dad hasn't died yet, he is 66 and continues to drink daily..... continues to smoke daily..... continues to drink coffee every 3 hours or so. I also know an 86 year old lady who smokes a pack of cigs a day, it's bizarre....... some people really are freaks of nature lol
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 476
Originally Posted by tomsteve
" I genuinely enjoy drinking... "
this isn't stuff I enjoy( posted by you in another thread):
this isn't stuff I enjoy( posted by you in another thread):
The original post was written some time ago..... my head has cleared up a bit since then, that's where the "genuinely enjoy drinking" comes from...... i had a few days where i was tempted to drink because i couldnt sleep at all
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Nutmegger
Posts: 1,799
Originally Posted by grubby
Just an FYI if it helps or matters, my last drink was February 17, 2014, a little past 1:30 in the afternoon. Today is day 16 of being sober.
B]1-2x[/B] shots of cheap "Burnetts" vodka (every other day or so)
I remember the time of my last drink too…..it was on a plane on the way to rehab. I hope you save yourself the airfare.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
Grubby,
Day 34 - good work - you are keeping count. That means something I think.
If you are an alcoholic, you will always be an alcoholic. That doesn't mean you will always drink. As for "ingesting" mouth wash etc. Most people I know don't swallow mouthwash. Of course it is now getting difficult to find mouthwash that contains alcohol. And true there will be some absorption when you swish it around in your mouth. You can actually get drunk from swishing around vodka then spitting it out. But it takes some work. Kinda like dissolving an aspirin on your tongue if you feel heart attack symptoms.
I know people who smoked a pack of cigarettes a day until they were ninety. I know people who did this, did that etc. etc. etc.
I know people who never smoked and got lung cancer. .....................
A have a bottle of jack daniels bbq sauce. THERE IS NO ALCOHOL IN IT. It is a marketing tool. It is suppose to have the essence of jd.
NyQuil is a different matter altogether. Yes, you are taking a 'shot' of alcohol when you take NyQuil. There are alternatives. If you are alcoholic or suspect that you are, tell you doctor before ever being prescribed anything. You need to educate yourself on the matter.
I'm sure there are topics from the top list that can educate you or steer you in the right direction as far as understanding what alcohol does to your brain and why you should not ever drink again. If you are like me, substitute the word 'I' for "you" in the previous sentence. I would research this a little further.
I've heard this put this way. "I have a terminal disease to which there is no cure." But it can be treated into remission with little or no permanent effects. The only treatment is to never consume alcohol. I'm making this sound simple. It is and it isn't. Keep in mind that if you are an alcoholic you are probably a drug addict too even if you never used drugs. As I said, learn some more about it. Don't think you are ever "cured". We are all different, yet WE are all still the same in a certain way. Good luck.
Day 34 - good work - you are keeping count. That means something I think.
If you are an alcoholic, you will always be an alcoholic. That doesn't mean you will always drink. As for "ingesting" mouth wash etc. Most people I know don't swallow mouthwash. Of course it is now getting difficult to find mouthwash that contains alcohol. And true there will be some absorption when you swish it around in your mouth. You can actually get drunk from swishing around vodka then spitting it out. But it takes some work. Kinda like dissolving an aspirin on your tongue if you feel heart attack symptoms.
I know people who smoked a pack of cigarettes a day until they were ninety. I know people who did this, did that etc. etc. etc.
I know people who never smoked and got lung cancer. .....................
A have a bottle of jack daniels bbq sauce. THERE IS NO ALCOHOL IN IT. It is a marketing tool. It is suppose to have the essence of jd.
NyQuil is a different matter altogether. Yes, you are taking a 'shot' of alcohol when you take NyQuil. There are alternatives. If you are alcoholic or suspect that you are, tell you doctor before ever being prescribed anything. You need to educate yourself on the matter.
I'm sure there are topics from the top list that can educate you or steer you in the right direction as far as understanding what alcohol does to your brain and why you should not ever drink again. If you are like me, substitute the word 'I' for "you" in the previous sentence. I would research this a little further.
I've heard this put this way. "I have a terminal disease to which there is no cure." But it can be treated into remission with little or no permanent effects. The only treatment is to never consume alcohol. I'm making this sound simple. It is and it isn't. Keep in mind that if you are an alcoholic you are probably a drug addict too even if you never used drugs. As I said, learn some more about it. Don't think you are ever "cured". We are all different, yet WE are all still the same in a certain way. Good luck.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,431
I tried moderating after nearly two years of not drinking.
Lasted as a "normal" drinker for about one week before it crept up again.
I personally don't think you will be able to turn back the clock and ever be able
to have a few. I know those days are over for me.
34 days is a great start, but it is the beginning of a longer journey which will also
involve making changes in how you live your life, see the world, and understand yourself
and others if you want to find the peace and happiness part of the equation.
Drinking was the short-cut I used, and maybe you have used, to not deal with the hard parts of living.
That is all still there, but it is no longer being complicated with an active addiction.
But you still must process the stuff of life.
That part was pretty hard for me at first, and it made it very tempting to try to find
excuses to go back, to moderate, to return to what I knew.
Now, you couldn't pay me to drink alcohol--and I was one of the ones who thought
I could never quit forever.
It is a journey, and I'm glad to be on it now though I only started it kicking and screaming.
I wish you the best, and kindly suggest you quit worrying so much about moderation and alcohol use,
and look around at improving the rest of your life
Lasted as a "normal" drinker for about one week before it crept up again.
I personally don't think you will be able to turn back the clock and ever be able
to have a few. I know those days are over for me.
34 days is a great start, but it is the beginning of a longer journey which will also
involve making changes in how you live your life, see the world, and understand yourself
and others if you want to find the peace and happiness part of the equation.
Drinking was the short-cut I used, and maybe you have used, to not deal with the hard parts of living.
That is all still there, but it is no longer being complicated with an active addiction.
But you still must process the stuff of life.
That part was pretty hard for me at first, and it made it very tempting to try to find
excuses to go back, to moderate, to return to what I knew.
Now, you couldn't pay me to drink alcohol--and I was one of the ones who thought
I could never quit forever.
It is a journey, and I'm glad to be on it now though I only started it kicking and screaming.
I wish you the best, and kindly suggest you quit worrying so much about moderation and alcohol use,
and look around at improving the rest of your life
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Here, EH!!!
Posts: 1,337
Originally Posted by grubby
Hello SR! First post!
I am new here, I have not had the time to put together a formal introduction post but plan on doing so within the next few days.
A few questions I had for the community:
1. Is it safe/a good idea, after a fairly "safe" period of abstinence (say... 6 months or more), to return to drinking on a "casual" basis (say... 1 or 2 drinks a week)? I am not going to lie to you guys or myself, I genuinely enjoy drinking... it is very relaxing
The reason I have quit for the time being is that the alcohol started to become a distraction and I came to my senses and decided I needed to take a break and discuss the matter further with people more knowledgeable than I (like this forum).
2. I did a little homework during my first week of quitting and learned that consuming alcohol over a long period of time is akin to pushing down on a giant coil spring, then when you suddenly "get off" it, that stored energy "bounces" back violently and gives you the symptoms of withdrawal. My question is, how long (ballpark) until the brain/nervous system calms down? Does the brain EVER return to it's pre-alcoholism state? Or is this hyper-excited state a permanent thing?
3. I been reading a lot about the "dangers" of alcohol kindling, could this "kindling" be triggered at all by such a "light" drinking arrangement as described in question #1? Or is the "kindling" effect only triggered by multiple returns to HEAVY drinking? Is it something a "light" drinker would need to worry about at all? I could use some clarification on this.
4. My dad was a life-time alcoholic, as was his dad... and his dad. Being that alcoholism apparently runs in my genetics and family line, how does this factor in? Is it good (can drink more)? Or is it bad (more susceptible to dependence)? Both?
5. I only drank for give or take 4 years, and I am in my mid-twenties. I started off kind of heavy, then went down to a very "light" frequency (6-8 regular 5% beers a week), then in the second half of 2013 due to a stressful series of events I went back to a heavy/daily routine... would you guys recommend any sort of blood test or anything like that given my age? Is that "Wernicke-Korsakoff" disease even applicable or possible in this instance? Or is that mainly for long-term/older drinkers which drank for a really long time, say... 15+ years? I looked up the symptoms and I do not exhibit any of them, the worst symptoms I experienced during my first week were severe insomnia and higher blood pressure/racing heart which subsided after 5 days.
Just an FYI if it helps or matters, my last drink was February 17, 2014, a little past 1:30 in the afternoon. Today is day 16 of being sober.
Before you ask, yes... I did go to my doctor and ask him about it... several days later. Stupid I know, but I didn't know how serious this "withdrawal" stuff can be and plus this is my first time doing this. A typical newbie mistake I am learning, thinking I could "diagnose" myself via Google. My doctor checked me out/blood pressure/vitals, and he said the worst was over... prescribed me some Ambien to help with the insomnia and sent me on my way.
My daily drinking habit towards the end was as follows:
1x 40 oz bottle (either "Olde English 800" or "Steel Reserve")
2x regular 5% beers (usually "Heineken" 12 oz bottles)
1-2x shots of cheap "Burnetts" vodka (every other day or so)
I understand you guys cannot give medical advice, but I was just wanting to pick the brains of some of the members on here. Just to get a second opinion, hopefully from people who may be knowledgeable in some of the questions I have brought forward. Any responses to this post are most appreciated, help a newbie out!
Anyways, I look forward to getting to know and learning from you all
To a sober life...
I am new here, I have not had the time to put together a formal introduction post but plan on doing so within the next few days.
A few questions I had for the community:
1. Is it safe/a good idea, after a fairly "safe" period of abstinence (say... 6 months or more), to return to drinking on a "casual" basis (say... 1 or 2 drinks a week)? I am not going to lie to you guys or myself, I genuinely enjoy drinking... it is very relaxing
The reason I have quit for the time being is that the alcohol started to become a distraction and I came to my senses and decided I needed to take a break and discuss the matter further with people more knowledgeable than I (like this forum).2. I did a little homework during my first week of quitting and learned that consuming alcohol over a long period of time is akin to pushing down on a giant coil spring, then when you suddenly "get off" it, that stored energy "bounces" back violently and gives you the symptoms of withdrawal. My question is, how long (ballpark) until the brain/nervous system calms down? Does the brain EVER return to it's pre-alcoholism state? Or is this hyper-excited state a permanent thing?
3. I been reading a lot about the "dangers" of alcohol kindling, could this "kindling" be triggered at all by such a "light" drinking arrangement as described in question #1? Or is the "kindling" effect only triggered by multiple returns to HEAVY drinking? Is it something a "light" drinker would need to worry about at all? I could use some clarification on this.
4. My dad was a life-time alcoholic, as was his dad... and his dad. Being that alcoholism apparently runs in my genetics and family line, how does this factor in? Is it good (can drink more)? Or is it bad (more susceptible to dependence)? Both?
5. I only drank for give or take 4 years, and I am in my mid-twenties. I started off kind of heavy, then went down to a very "light" frequency (6-8 regular 5% beers a week), then in the second half of 2013 due to a stressful series of events I went back to a heavy/daily routine... would you guys recommend any sort of blood test or anything like that given my age? Is that "Wernicke-Korsakoff" disease even applicable or possible in this instance? Or is that mainly for long-term/older drinkers which drank for a really long time, say... 15+ years? I looked up the symptoms and I do not exhibit any of them, the worst symptoms I experienced during my first week were severe insomnia and higher blood pressure/racing heart which subsided after 5 days.
Just an FYI if it helps or matters, my last drink was February 17, 2014, a little past 1:30 in the afternoon. Today is day 16 of being sober.
Before you ask, yes... I did go to my doctor and ask him about it... several days later. Stupid I know, but I didn't know how serious this "withdrawal" stuff can be and plus this is my first time doing this. A typical newbie mistake I am learning, thinking I could "diagnose" myself via Google. My doctor checked me out/blood pressure/vitals, and he said the worst was over... prescribed me some Ambien to help with the insomnia and sent me on my way.
My daily drinking habit towards the end was as follows:
1x 40 oz bottle (either "Olde English 800" or "Steel Reserve")
2x regular 5% beers (usually "Heineken" 12 oz bottles)
1-2x shots of cheap "Burnetts" vodka (every other day or so)
I understand you guys cannot give medical advice, but I was just wanting to pick the brains of some of the members on here. Just to get a second opinion, hopefully from people who may be knowledgeable in some of the questions I have brought forward. Any responses to this post are most appreciated, help a newbie out!
Anyways, I look forward to getting to know and learning from you all
To a sober life...
If you are trully an alcoholic, then COMPLETE and TOTAL abstinance is the order of the day. How you get there is up to you.
Sure, alcoholism is like diaherra, its in the genes, the genetics of the body. It really doesnt matter at all where you got this disease from, and its a recognized disease by the American Medical Association. It only matters what you are going to do about it.
Any and all alcohol triggers the body. The body does not care where the alcohol comes from, whether its from the bottle or glass, medicines, foods, mouth wash, hand wash. All the body knows is it needs MORE and MORE and MORE alcohol. Only you know if you are an alcoholic. You are here, so you have a doubt somewhere in your mind that you are an alcoholic. Normal people have a half a normal glass of wine and dont care for it anymore. They do not think about the drink in any way shape or form. Alcoholics on the other hand obsess over it, they think about it, what its going to do, how its going to change the way they feel. Normal people dont do that.
Well there is some good news and some bad news. The good news is that you may think you have a problem. Perhaps you are wanting to do something about it. Great. Perhaps church will help, maybe a fitness class, maybe some Yoga, perhaps a retreat, maybe attend SMART Recovery could help, there are many ways for people with alcoholism to stop drinking. The only one that has worked for me and countless millions of other people is the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. Awesome success rate, above 75% if you follow the DIRECTIONS in our BASIC TEXT-BOOK. If you read the dust cover of the book, it says just that, TEXT BOOK. It is a spiritual program of action. Not a religious program. You make up your own conception of a higher power, and by the end of the steps you will have gained a HP that will help you through the tough spots in life and gain some peace, happiness and serentiy you have been trying to find at the bottle of the bottle.
The bad news is, is that its tough work to look at yourself. To change. You might curl up into a ball, cry, spit, foam at the mouth, punch in some walls, curse, moan, complain, have nightmares, panic attacks, anxiety tremors, Delerium Tremors (DT's), Hallucinations. In the end, its for the best.
I will not change the best day drunk, for my worst day sober. NEVER!!!!!!!!
Dont drink and you dont get drunk, its that simple. Only God can help you with that.
Deep down in every woman, man, and child is a fundamental idea of a God of your own understanding. Agnostic is greek for "without knowledge".
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 72
When your first starting your recovery don't let yourself focus on wether or not you will be able to drink in the future. The thought of never drinking again is enough to send a lot of us into a bender. Focus on one day at time. For me every time I've told myself I could occasionally drink I've fallen right back into old habits & have had to start all over. I know every person is different so no one can say if u will be able to drink again just worry about not drinking today! Good luck! You've got this
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 8,642
I'm the poster child for "Kindling"..... After 18 months sobriety I experimented with "casual drinking" . Within 3 weeks I was right back to square one. 3 Months later, and 3 trips to the ER, I was worse. The Kindling effect is real and very scary. If you're an alcoholic, you can't drink...... Ever.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadyAtLast
Normal drinkers don't give it so much thought .They just naturally drink normally......
Originally Posted by ReadyAtLast
Normal drinkers don't give it so much thought .They just naturally drink normally......
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 476
Originally Posted by LDT
I'm the poster child for "Kindling"..... After 18 months sobriety I experimented with "casual drinking" . Within 3 weeks I was right back to square one. 3 Months later, and 3 trips to the ER, I was worse. The Kindling effect is real and very scary. If you're an alcoholic, you can't drink...... Ever.
Thank you so much for sharing, i cant tell you how much i appreciate it......... i guess the only thing left to do now is put together some sort of list of everyday household items that might have alcohol in them and maintain constant vigilance, forever it sounds like.
I am going to miss nyquil, that was my go-to solution for when i got a flu/cold and couldn't get to sleep due to the stuffiness and mucus, damn.........
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