Serenity or just learn how to deal with life?
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 297
Serenity or just learn how to deal with life?
Why isn't there more focus on getting people to learn how to cope with life instead of teaching them new ways to escape it? (meditation, ignoring the negative, obsessive devotion to God and sometimes an addiction to AA) Things they teach in rehab and halfway houses like making residents to daily chores without any sort of reward aside from a clean house.
If you do a chore or something you don't enjoy, you don't get to be "rewarded" and the world isn't against you. It's life. This would be a lot more helpful to someone like me than the idea that sobriety will bring "serenity". It won't. Even if I work the steps in earnest. IMO, you're just spending more selfish time focused on yourself instead of doing those things you have likely been avoiding for years. Now when the spouse says "Honey I need to you fix the dryer" you can say "Oh, sorry I have AA. I have to put me first." The poor spouse is likely thinking "okay, so what has really changed?"
My problems will still be there waiting for me no matter how much time I spend meditating, praying or analyzing my behavior. At least for me, sobriety really is about self control and facing problems head-on and thinking less about "me me me" and more about the world around me.
This is only my opinion so don't be too mad at me. When I got sober, I decided to stop making excusesand actually do all the things around my house that I had been putting off due to being either drunk or super hungover. It both made me feel good about myself and life but also occupied my mind so that I never even thought of drinking. At least for me, going to AA makes me want to hit the bar on the way home. Again that is my opinion, and I know AA really does work for many.
If you do a chore or something you don't enjoy, you don't get to be "rewarded" and the world isn't against you. It's life. This would be a lot more helpful to someone like me than the idea that sobriety will bring "serenity". It won't. Even if I work the steps in earnest. IMO, you're just spending more selfish time focused on yourself instead of doing those things you have likely been avoiding for years. Now when the spouse says "Honey I need to you fix the dryer" you can say "Oh, sorry I have AA. I have to put me first." The poor spouse is likely thinking "okay, so what has really changed?"
My problems will still be there waiting for me no matter how much time I spend meditating, praying or analyzing my behavior. At least for me, sobriety really is about self control and facing problems head-on and thinking less about "me me me" and more about the world around me.
This is only my opinion so don't be too mad at me. When I got sober, I decided to stop making excusesand actually do all the things around my house that I had been putting off due to being either drunk or super hungover. It both made me feel good about myself and life but also occupied my mind so that I never even thought of drinking. At least for me, going to AA makes me want to hit the bar on the way home. Again that is my opinion, and I know AA really does work for many.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 1,344
You are probably right that if we are prone to escapism we can use many ways to get that even AA or mediation. It do not think it is the goal with any of these methods.
It is a good point you are raising in my view.
It is a good point you are raising in my view.
Its a cold and its a broken hallelujah.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,887
For me, I had zero coping skills other than drinking. So in order for me to learn how to live life, on her terms, necessitated creating a "tool box" of go to behaviors other than pacifying myself with my ****.
I believe we arrest our development in addiction. I started drinking at 15. So I have a very hard time interacting with the world on an adult level. I'm not kidding when I tell you I had an ah ah moment in my kitchen that centers around , "Wait a second, i have a kitchen ?" And a house ? And a family ? It was so bizarre. But all the while I was accumulating these things, I was drunk.
I had no clue.
I was thinking this morning in fact, about the selfishness surrounding alcoholism. And how while we are drinking, we think we are acquiescing to everybody around us to cope with those S.o.b.s. It's the exact opposite. They, most likely, are coping with our nonsense.
But it's imperative to take the time to heal. If that's going to meetings, so be it. For me it's loads of introspection, reading, prayer, meditation, exercise, therapy, etc. Selfish ? Maybe.
But I am not good to anyone if I don't put my oxygen mask on first.
Thanks for the great thread. This is going to be fun.
I believe we arrest our development in addiction. I started drinking at 15. So I have a very hard time interacting with the world on an adult level. I'm not kidding when I tell you I had an ah ah moment in my kitchen that centers around , "Wait a second, i have a kitchen ?" And a house ? And a family ? It was so bizarre. But all the while I was accumulating these things, I was drunk.
I had no clue.
I was thinking this morning in fact, about the selfishness surrounding alcoholism. And how while we are drinking, we think we are acquiescing to everybody around us to cope with those S.o.b.s. It's the exact opposite. They, most likely, are coping with our nonsense.
But it's imperative to take the time to heal. If that's going to meetings, so be it. For me it's loads of introspection, reading, prayer, meditation, exercise, therapy, etc. Selfish ? Maybe.
But I am not good to anyone if I don't put my oxygen mask on first.
Thanks for the great thread. This is going to be fun.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,997
Getting sober just got me sober DoPerdition. Other than the obvious health benefits and not being mentally incapacitated to reduce the risks of an accident or collateral damage, I didn't expect much more than that when I quit. Don't get me wrong. That alone is worth quitting drinking for but it certainly wasn't enough to give me a purpose for living or finding the reason why my life is worth living. Quitting drinking was just the only way I ever had a shot at having a chance at finding it.
That's when the real fun began. And I use the word fun loosely. It was a lot of hard work trying to find what made sense for me. And it was a roller coaster ride sometimes. But I kept trying to find it. I still do. And when I found one thing that was working it was the basis to start building with others.
Just me but I see this journey as two fold. I had to stop drinking. That is one thing. I had to do whatever it took to stop.
Then it was my job to find out the reason why I wanted to stop in the first place other than the obvious. I don't think anything anyone said about why life was worth living for them would have been anything more than good suggestions on just things for me to give a try and see what works for me. I'm glad there are a ton to choose from. Everyday someone on here shares what is working for them. All I have to do is give it a try and see if it works for me. If it does, great. If it doesn't, there is always another. Heck, I even find one all by myself on occasion.
No one could have helped me find my serenity and happiness if I didn't know what my own definition of serenity and happiness even was. That's my job to do and then it's my job to find it. Now it is getting fun.
Great job on quitting! Keep asking the hard questions. That's where I found my answers.
That's when the real fun began. And I use the word fun loosely. It was a lot of hard work trying to find what made sense for me. And it was a roller coaster ride sometimes. But I kept trying to find it. I still do. And when I found one thing that was working it was the basis to start building with others.
Just me but I see this journey as two fold. I had to stop drinking. That is one thing. I had to do whatever it took to stop.
Then it was my job to find out the reason why I wanted to stop in the first place other than the obvious. I don't think anything anyone said about why life was worth living for them would have been anything more than good suggestions on just things for me to give a try and see what works for me. I'm glad there are a ton to choose from. Everyday someone on here shares what is working for them. All I have to do is give it a try and see if it works for me. If it does, great. If it doesn't, there is always another. Heck, I even find one all by myself on occasion.
No one could have helped me find my serenity and happiness if I didn't know what my own definition of serenity and happiness even was. That's my job to do and then it's my job to find it. Now it is getting fun.
Great job on quitting! Keep asking the hard questions. That's where I found my answers.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 552
I understand your meaning. I just wanted to comment that I don't believe meditation is a form of "escape". It's certainly not about ignoring the negative. If anything, it's about finding a source of strength internally that enables you to maintain your sense of groundedness, regardless of the "monkey mind" or what life chucks at you. Meditation can help us keep our cool and not respond to stimulus/stress in a purely reactionary way- which I find VERY helpful in problem solving. I'd imagine it's very similar with prayer.
Meditation and prayer have been proven to create physiological changes in the brain and promote healing. They can "rewire" the brain, in a way. I agree with you 100% about accountability! Recovery should not be an excuse to live in dysfunctional patterns of escapism or overt self-indulgence. But, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the benefits of meditation and prayer. There's something to it. :-)
Physiological Responses Associated with Prayer and Meditation - Alternative Medicine and Rehabilitation - NCBI Bookshelf
Meditation and prayer have been proven to create physiological changes in the brain and promote healing. They can "rewire" the brain, in a way. I agree with you 100% about accountability! Recovery should not be an excuse to live in dysfunctional patterns of escapism or overt self-indulgence. But, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the benefits of meditation and prayer. There's something to it. :-)
Physiological Responses Associated with Prayer and Meditation - Alternative Medicine and Rehabilitation - NCBI Bookshelf
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
I believe I agree with you 100%, but see it from a slightly different angle. Sounds like you're saying we should be more focused on becoming mature and responsible, than serene. Shooting for constant serenity, or happiness can be similar to chasing a high. I know, because I've done it for a long time. Still sometimes do.
It wasn't until recently that I realized happiness, serenity, joy, etc. are emotions, like any other. They will com and they will go. I will also at times be depressed, angry, lonely, scared, and 100 other things. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's part of the human experience. It makes life colorful, and often motivates me to do things differently. My less joyful emotions don't have to be medicated. I believe it's this push towards constant happiness, serenity, and peace of mind that is at the crux of many of the problems the world currently faces. And I don't entirely trust anyone who claims that they've arrived at that place where all they experience is serenity. I believe that might be true for some, but definitely not the norm, and not something I'm too sure I'd ever want. I enjoy my variety of experience and emotion.
It wasn't until recently that I realized happiness, serenity, joy, etc. are emotions, like any other. They will com and they will go. I will also at times be depressed, angry, lonely, scared, and 100 other things. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's part of the human experience. It makes life colorful, and often motivates me to do things differently. My less joyful emotions don't have to be medicated. I believe it's this push towards constant happiness, serenity, and peace of mind that is at the crux of many of the problems the world currently faces. And I don't entirely trust anyone who claims that they've arrived at that place where all they experience is serenity. I believe that might be true for some, but definitely not the norm, and not something I'm too sure I'd ever want. I enjoy my variety of experience and emotion.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
I think you might have some misconceptions about the AA program. It might interest you to know that the program is much closer to what you are suggesting (not putting yourself first) than you might realize. The AA program is not an exercise in the avoidance of responsibility. To the contrary. The AA program is in fact an exercise in obtaining a degree of 'freedom from the boundaries of self'.
The program is not about “spending more selfish time focused on yourself”. There is, to a certain degree, an emphasis on working on the self, but this work is necessary for growth. The work is not centered around selfish self indulgence or avoidance of responsibility. In fact it's just the opposite.
Serenity is a result of the process, but that's difficult to understand until you have gone through it.
The program is not about “spending more selfish time focused on yourself”. There is, to a certain degree, an emphasis on working on the self, but this work is necessary for growth. The work is not centered around selfish self indulgence or avoidance of responsibility. In fact it's just the opposite.
Serenity is a result of the process, but that's difficult to understand until you have gone through it.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Ireland
Posts: 244
Originally Posted by alphaomega 
For me, I had zero coping skills other than drinking. So in order for me to learn how to live life, on her terms, necessitated creating a "tool box" of go to behaviors other than pacifying myself with my ****.
I believe we arrest our development in addiction. I started drinking at 15. So I have a very hard time interacting with the world on an adult level. I'm not kidding when I tell you I had an ah ah moment in my kitchen that centers around , "Wait a second, i have a kitchen ?" And a house ? And a family ? It was so bizarre. But all the while I was accumulating these things, I was drunk.
I had no clue.
I was thinking this morning in fact, about the selfishness surrounding alcoholism. And how while we are drinking, we think we are acquiescing to everybody around us to cope with those S.o.b.s. It's the exact opposite. They, most likely, are coping with our nonsense.
But it's imperative to take the time to heal. If that's going to meetings, so be it. For me it's loads of introspection, reading, prayer, meditation, exercise, therapy, etc. Selfish ? Maybe.
But I am not good to anyone if I don't put my oxygen mask on first.
Thanks for the great thread. This is going to be fun.
I believe we arrest our development in addiction. I started drinking at 15. So I have a very hard time interacting with the world on an adult level. I'm not kidding when I tell you I had an ah ah moment in my kitchen that centers around , "Wait a second, i have a kitchen ?" And a house ? And a family ? It was so bizarre. But all the while I was accumulating these things, I was drunk.
I had no clue.
I was thinking this morning in fact, about the selfishness surrounding alcoholism. And how while we are drinking, we think we are acquiescing to everybody around us to cope with those S.o.b.s. It's the exact opposite. They, most likely, are coping with our nonsense.
But it's imperative to take the time to heal. If that's going to meetings, so be it. For me it's loads of introspection, reading, prayer, meditation, exercise, therapy, etc. Selfish ? Maybe.
But I am not good to anyone if I don't put my oxygen mask on first.
Thanks for the great thread. This is going to be fun.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Asia
Posts: 43
On a related note, this is a good read: http://udaypai.in/?p=601
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: South Texas
Posts: 211
Serenity is a result of the process, but that's difficult to understand until you have gone through it.
there ARE people in those rooms who dont seem to have a great program going for them ...i dont know if it is how they work it or just let some things get away -- whatever- thats fine - but the people i know who are working the program and doing the things they should- the people who i found in those rooms and surrounded myself with - are happy and enjoy life - some have families, some dont, all different kinds of jobs, and lifestyles -- and ALL sober...
so as far as ignoring the negative ... GUILTY -why surround myself with it when i can embrace the positive and be happy
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 130
I agree with some of what you have said. I have taken a different approach in that I quit drinking but do the same things I love to do. Instead of drinking alcohol, I drink fruit juice. Ex. Play pool, play poker, go to hockey games, go to comedy clubs, pay board games, watch sports at bars. Its taken me years to realize that the best way to learn to say no is to go out and do it everyday. I have the strength but it wasn't until I was ready to quit that I got it. Locking yourself away just makes it that much harder when its in your face. You have to learn to say no and you don't learn that sitting in a room alone.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gulf Coast, Florida USA
Posts: 5,731
Serenity is the result of me letting go and Letting God. Losing expectations, not letting the negative over take me. Things I learned in AA. Serenity is a result of doing these things.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,518
Alcoholism was not my problem either. Insisting on controlling every aspect of my environment was my problem and, eventually, alcoholism became a way to escape when I could no longer control my children, family, job, etc. So, clearly I had a lot of work to do when I stopped drinking.
I have never felt that my recovery took me away from important things in my life. Recovery helped me to focus on what I could control (me) and to let go of the rest and to allow life to happen.
I have never felt that my recovery took me away from important things in my life. Recovery helped me to focus on what I could control (me) and to let go of the rest and to allow life to happen.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
AA's program of recovery is not a life sentence; nor is it an excuse to further avoid our responsibilities. Either is an extremely distorted view of what AA is. AA is a bridge back to life, a design for living that includes taking a personal inventory in order to acknowledge what is good and what we need to address about ourselves, repairing our relationships, and helping others. The only "reward" that working the AA Big Book Twelve Steps offers is living a better life.
Your comments are somewhat confusing to me, if only because the example you provide about avoiding responsibilities at home by claiming to need to be at a meeting or other AA event describes someone who is selfish, childish, and not of a sober mind, none of which are endorsed by AA's program of recovery. People who use AA as an excuse to shirk their responsibilities in life have major issues in addition to alcohol, as do people who expect to be rewarded for acting responsibly.
Finally, why should someone be rewarded for acting in a responsible and sober manner?
Your comments are somewhat confusing to me, if only because the example you provide about avoiding responsibilities at home by claiming to need to be at a meeting or other AA event describes someone who is selfish, childish, and not of a sober mind, none of which are endorsed by AA's program of recovery. People who use AA as an excuse to shirk their responsibilities in life have major issues in addition to alcohol, as do people who expect to be rewarded for acting responsibly.
Finally, why should someone be rewarded for acting in a responsible and sober manner?
Life Health Prosperity
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Louisana
Posts: 6,752
DoPerdition, you are FANTASTIC, thanks for the thread. I came to view me being in AA as something else that was controlling my life, it was, another way of escaping from life, although the 2 years 7 months I spent in my home group helped me divert my attention away from drinking. Time away from the chemicals allows the body to restructure itself so that it doesn't need them anymore to maintain equilibrium. I realize, now that I'm chemical independent, other problems that I have aren't going away unless I do what is necessary to solve them, and I'm getting better at it. I meditate on Calculus, Physics, and Chemistry, and because I do I'm learning it all faster and beginning to enjoy the work of it. Got my weedeater fixed, got my chainsaw fixed, new faucet in the bathroom sink, workin on my power washer right now, finished my workbench and put a vice on it, built a chicken coup for the landlady and fixin all her junk, just stayin busy. Rootin for everyone. 
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: South Texas
Posts: 211
so as far as ignoring the negative ... GUILTY -why surround myself with it when i can embrace the positive and be happy
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Strailya
Posts: 8,025
DoPerdition
I have to sharply disagree with your notions of AA and with meditation. Your views are in contrast to what the aims of both bring to an individual.
During an AA meeting, have you heard of the concept "to be of service" ? When you hear AA members share their stories, do you not often hear about one of the greatest gifts that AA brings to them is the ability to reconnect with their loved ones, to be able to contribute to the family, to be dependable ? Do you not hear stories about members being so happy that they have finally managed to shed their self centredness and be of service to others?
Examine the Steps closely; they are design to make you accept who you are, be responsible for your past, clean up your side of the street and move forward. Is that not facing "reality" ?
Meditation is about being totally honest with ourselves, taking a good look at what we are and working with that in order to become more useful to ourselves and to others. The highest aim of meditation is to achieve compassion for all beings (Bodhichitta).
I fully respect your right to post your views and it is certainly true that our recovery programs differ on an individual basis. However, I would suggest that you do some research first before posting !
I have to sharply disagree with your notions of AA and with meditation. Your views are in contrast to what the aims of both bring to an individual.
During an AA meeting, have you heard of the concept "to be of service" ? When you hear AA members share their stories, do you not often hear about one of the greatest gifts that AA brings to them is the ability to reconnect with their loved ones, to be able to contribute to the family, to be dependable ? Do you not hear stories about members being so happy that they have finally managed to shed their self centredness and be of service to others?
Examine the Steps closely; they are design to make you accept who you are, be responsible for your past, clean up your side of the street and move forward. Is that not facing "reality" ?
Meditation is about being totally honest with ourselves, taking a good look at what we are and working with that in order to become more useful to ourselves and to others. The highest aim of meditation is to achieve compassion for all beings (Bodhichitta).
I fully respect your right to post your views and it is certainly true that our recovery programs differ on an individual basis. However, I would suggest that you do some research first before posting !
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,597
I was in a meeting the other day and one of the guys said the biggest gift AA had given him was that every day he could step up and say to his wife "What can I do for you today? How can I make your life better and show you more of my love." It was so heartfelt I cried. I'm teary now just remembering it.
AA isn't for eveyone but it really does work for some people. It has taken me a long time ot get my head around the programme and how it works, but it really about getting off yourself and focusing on helping others. Your own recovery has to come first, but if you miss one meeting in order to attend to a responsibility, there'll be another meeting, or another alcoholic to call and see how they are.
If someone is shirking their responsibilities because they have to go to a meeting, they may not have a very good programme. I am lucky that there are hundreds of meetings I can get to within a 30 minute drive. It may be trickier for people who live in remote areas that have few meetings. I know one lady who lives in a remote town that has one 12 step meeting a week. In that case, she has to put herself first and arrange the rest of her life around that one meeting, short of an emergency.
AA isn't for eveyone but it really does work for some people. It has taken me a long time ot get my head around the programme and how it works, but it really about getting off yourself and focusing on helping others. Your own recovery has to come first, but if you miss one meeting in order to attend to a responsibility, there'll be another meeting, or another alcoholic to call and see how they are.
If someone is shirking their responsibilities because they have to go to a meeting, they may not have a very good programme. I am lucky that there are hundreds of meetings I can get to within a 30 minute drive. It may be trickier for people who live in remote areas that have few meetings. I know one lady who lives in a remote town that has one 12 step meeting a week. In that case, she has to put herself first and arrange the rest of her life around that one meeting, short of an emergency.
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