Hard time dealing with religious aspect of AA
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 9
Hard time dealing with religious aspect of AA
Hey everyone!
So I tried official sobriety on August 15th. It lasted three days and I decided "this is dumb, I can handle my alcohol" so I drank on Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday and decided that was enough.
I went to my first AA meeting on Friday night with a girl I met who is now my temporary sponsor, and I got a "surrender" coin there. I'm calling my sponsor every day and reading the AA books and 12 steps and what not, and I can see that yes, I do relate to a lot what they are saying in the books and what I heard at the meetings.
What I AM having trouble with, however, is that 11 out of the 12 steps (after #1 which I am still working on) have to do with a 'God' or religion and I just have a hard time understanding that the only solution to this problem MUST be spiritual. I was not raised to believe in a God, and I am not athiest, but I certainly do not think I believe in a God. Being able to get through these twelve steps without a spiritual aspect to my life is impossible, it looks like. But I have no idea what to do.
Any suggestions? Has anyone been able to overcome this hurdle and work their way through these steps without a religious aspect? How did finally start believing? I'm just, I'm confused.
Thanks,
So I tried official sobriety on August 15th. It lasted three days and I decided "this is dumb, I can handle my alcohol" so I drank on Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday and decided that was enough.
I went to my first AA meeting on Friday night with a girl I met who is now my temporary sponsor, and I got a "surrender" coin there. I'm calling my sponsor every day and reading the AA books and 12 steps and what not, and I can see that yes, I do relate to a lot what they are saying in the books and what I heard at the meetings.
What I AM having trouble with, however, is that 11 out of the 12 steps (after #1 which I am still working on) have to do with a 'God' or religion and I just have a hard time understanding that the only solution to this problem MUST be spiritual. I was not raised to believe in a God, and I am not athiest, but I certainly do not think I believe in a God. Being able to get through these twelve steps without a spiritual aspect to my life is impossible, it looks like. But I have no idea what to do.
Any suggestions? Has anyone been able to overcome this hurdle and work their way through these steps without a religious aspect? How did finally start believing? I'm just, I'm confused.
Thanks,
A Smart Bug is a Sober Bug!
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hot and Muggy South Florida
Posts: 1,396
AA says a Higher Power of your understanding - that could be anything. I have heard of people using the Universe, their family, the Earth, etc. Anything stronger than themselves.
Welcome to SR - great to have you here!
Welcome to SR - great to have you here!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
AA is not religion and does not promote it. "God" is the word they use, IMO, as a default.
A higher power of your understanding is what they are really driving at. A power greater than yourself. I did not grow up with any religion at all but I can accept that I cannot control everything. There is a higher power. Whether it be mother earth or power of the universe.
It is up to you decide what you feel is a higher power. Most pick God but many pick other ways to go about it.
A higher power of your understanding is what they are really driving at. A power greater than yourself. I did not grow up with any religion at all but I can accept that I cannot control everything. There is a higher power. Whether it be mother earth or power of the universe.
It is up to you decide what you feel is a higher power. Most pick God but many pick other ways to go about it.
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
As others have said, you can certainly use a higher power other than a theistic god or religion.
Depending upon where you live there may be specific AA meetings with people of the same thinking as you, some places even have atheist based AA meetings.
Regardless, do find a meeting you are comfortable with. While AA does not promote any particular faith, some of the PEOPLE who run the meetings do. It's best if you can find a meeting where they don't if you can, espeically if it's something yo disagree with.
Depending upon where you live there may be specific AA meetings with people of the same thinking as you, some places even have atheist based AA meetings.
Regardless, do find a meeting you are comfortable with. While AA does not promote any particular faith, some of the PEOPLE who run the meetings do. It's best if you can find a meeting where they don't if you can, espeically if it's something yo disagree with.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
"What I AM having trouble with, however, is that 11 out of the 12 steps (after #1 which I am still working on) have to do with a 'God' or religion and I just have a hard time understanding that the only solution to this problem MUST be spiritual."
Spiritual: relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
I’m not religious either but believe in a higher power, it’s just not me. I consider Mother Nature mine and am comfortable with it. I’d strongly suggest having your feet in today and continue on concentrating on step 1. It’s the foundation that the next 11 stand on. One day at a time, one step at a time. This is not a race to a finish line we must win. The only win we need is not drinking one day at a time. good luck
Spiritual: relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
I’m not religious either but believe in a higher power, it’s just not me. I consider Mother Nature mine and am comfortable with it. I’d strongly suggest having your feet in today and continue on concentrating on step 1. It’s the foundation that the next 11 stand on. One day at a time, one step at a time. This is not a race to a finish line we must win. The only win we need is not drinking one day at a time. good luck
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 18
Livingfreely, I also am not a religous person and at the first meeting I went to they said the catholic Lords Prayer afterward. I did'nt mind, if it works for them great. I look at it more like a higher power is something that I truly feel is more important than alcohol. For me that higher power is my relationship with my children and how I will affect the rest of their lives and the kind of people they will become. That higher power is very personal to me, but perhaps you can find something for you that is truly more important than alcohol.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8
I am not religious at all! I had trouble with the 'God' thing too. My sponsor is really down to earth and explained it to me like this... "I want you to replace the word God with anything you hold close to you heart and love. I don't even care if its "science" you want to replace it with, but replace it with something that is bigger then you! when we pray in meeting, join the circle and know in your mind you are Meditating for peace of mind."
For me , replacing God with Science made all the difference. There is a force in this world that is bigger than me. we are all Ongoing chemical reactions and it is my job to balance and choose the right chemical reactions.
I hope I made a little sense
For me , replacing God with Science made all the difference. There is a force in this world that is bigger than me. we are all Ongoing chemical reactions and it is my job to balance and choose the right chemical reactions.
I hope I made a little sense
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
Posts: 1,366
There are lots of ways to get sober and many have nothing whatsoever to do with God, or religion, or spirituality. Try SMART Recovery, Life Ring, SOS, Women for Sobriety, Rational Recovery. Many just use this site and some mix that with therapy. Find what works for you and do it!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,678
I am an atheist but I think I found a way with AA to make it fit my world view. There are many ways round it, some people use the universe as their higher power or Group Of Drunks, or Good Orderly Direction... Ultimately though I decided that AA wasn't for me. It felt disingenuous to go down that route for me because I have so many issues even just with the word 'spiritual'. Ultimately other methods worked better for me like AVRT and SMART recovery.
No half measures
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 424
Reading the chapter to the agnostic is recommended. AA is simply not a religious program. AA's definition of God or higher power is whatever you want it to be as long as it is not yourself. You may wish to find a sponsor of the same sex and someone that has worked the steps for multiple years.
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
Bill W. was an agnostic and didn't think the spiritual approach would work for him until his friend suggested that he choose his own conception of God (HP). He was drinking gin at the time and it hit him that all he had to do was be willing to believe in a power greater than himself to make a beginning. He went back to the hospital to get detoxed and never had another drink. Read pages 9-12 in the BB (Chapter 1: Bill's Story).
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,649
I also struggled with this over the years and honestly it's what kept me out of AA ten years longer than I wish it had....
"God" always comes along hand in hand with "Christianity" and "Church" to me - because of my experience. And I rebel against that and the notion of a guy in robes in the sky and heaven up in outer space and jesus as the only son of God and all the rest of it.
But funny enough.... for a long time I've believed there is a power that unites us. A force moving through us all. A one-ness of all things.... scriptures and doctrines and "GOD" aside - I believe that this force can be interacted with and can be there for us to hold faith in....
Sometimes I call it "The Great Spirit", or "The spirit that moves in all things", or no name at all... just something I have felt and can believe can be of support to me in life.
I heard a story from an old-timer who at one point used an empty beer can as his higher power. That beer can represented all the millions of reasons he wanted to stay sober.... that beer can was what he thought of in place of the word "God" everytime it was said in AA.
"GOD" is a placeholder... just look at it that way and realize that whatever your preconceptions associated with the word "GOD" may be - nobody is going to force you to believe in THEIR form of God in AA. That's the huge difference between religion and AA. In religion, you had BETTER believe in THEIR GOD.... you better recite those bible verses and preach about Jesus or you're going to hell, by GOD.
In AA - they ask only that you be willing to believe in a power greater than yourself and that that power would and could help you if you asked.
My sponsor made it real simple for me in the beginning... "In the morning, just say 'Please, Help Me". And before bed, just say "Thank you". That's enough...
Whether God is your own inner spirit, a guy on a lay-z-boy in the sky, a fat man in robes, a blue eight-armed elephant-person, a special stone or a beer can matters less than your simple willingness to open the door to help.
"God" always comes along hand in hand with "Christianity" and "Church" to me - because of my experience. And I rebel against that and the notion of a guy in robes in the sky and heaven up in outer space and jesus as the only son of God and all the rest of it.
But funny enough.... for a long time I've believed there is a power that unites us. A force moving through us all. A one-ness of all things.... scriptures and doctrines and "GOD" aside - I believe that this force can be interacted with and can be there for us to hold faith in....
Sometimes I call it "The Great Spirit", or "The spirit that moves in all things", or no name at all... just something I have felt and can believe can be of support to me in life.
I heard a story from an old-timer who at one point used an empty beer can as his higher power. That beer can represented all the millions of reasons he wanted to stay sober.... that beer can was what he thought of in place of the word "God" everytime it was said in AA.
"GOD" is a placeholder... just look at it that way and realize that whatever your preconceptions associated with the word "GOD" may be - nobody is going to force you to believe in THEIR form of God in AA. That's the huge difference between religion and AA. In religion, you had BETTER believe in THEIR GOD.... you better recite those bible verses and preach about Jesus or you're going to hell, by GOD.
In AA - they ask only that you be willing to believe in a power greater than yourself and that that power would and could help you if you asked.
My sponsor made it real simple for me in the beginning... "In the morning, just say 'Please, Help Me". And before bed, just say "Thank you". That's enough...
Whether God is your own inner spirit, a guy on a lay-z-boy in the sky, a fat man in robes, a blue eight-armed elephant-person, a special stone or a beer can matters less than your simple willingness to open the door to help.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 297
I wouldn't use Bill W. As an example for anything but I don't understand the hero worship he gets. I also don't really benefit from AA though I see why it works for people and I respect that.
I do not, however respect Bill and see him as little more than a con man and a womanizer. There is some evidence that he never actually stopped drinking and was without a doubt the first 13th stepper.
I got a very heavy Christian undertone from my local meeting including reciting The Lord's Prayer while holding hands (just like church). The alone wouldn't stop me from going. There are other things too controversial to get into here.
There is a lot of merit in how AA operates IMO but it is not for everyone.
I do not, however respect Bill and see him as little more than a con man and a womanizer. There is some evidence that he never actually stopped drinking and was without a doubt the first 13th stepper.
I got a very heavy Christian undertone from my local meeting including reciting The Lord's Prayer while holding hands (just like church). The alone wouldn't stop me from going. There are other things too controversial to get into here.
There is a lot of merit in how AA operates IMO but it is not for everyone.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,649
yeah I'm not a fan of The Lord's Prayer part either... but I just view it as a coded means of interacting with the spirit of my understanding....
sometimes I just don't say it at all. I used to get really hung up about this stuff but now I'm more open minded and take what works for me from AA, because it works for me.
sometimes I just don't say it at all. I used to get really hung up about this stuff but now I'm more open minded and take what works for me from AA, because it works for me.
International Man of Mystery
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 213
I never cared for AA. While they say it's 'spiritual not religion', I kinda finds that to be false. You hold hands at the end and say the lords prayer. I only liked speaker meetings because I could relate. Big book meetings tended to bore me. Don't get me wrong, you meet nice people that want to help, but IMHO AA tends to be cult-ish in the way they work.
There are other options. Get...
Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction: Jack Trimpey
I enjoyed it, but didn't agree with everything. Trimpey points out that most people that stop drinking do it on their own. No meetings, just understanding that your AV wants you to drink regardless of your health or social obligations. The book is overly critical of AA but I think the point he makes is that AA only works if you go constantly and forever.
There are other options. Get...
Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction: Jack Trimpey
I enjoyed it, but didn't agree with everything. Trimpey points out that most people that stop drinking do it on their own. No meetings, just understanding that your AV wants you to drink regardless of your health or social obligations. The book is overly critical of AA but I think the point he makes is that AA only works if you go constantly and forever.
Last edited by Dee74; 01-17-2014 at 01:14 PM. Reason: delinked commercial link
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
I do 12 step.
I use my sober self as a HP in regards to 12 step. There is a sober me that wants something better for me, that is willing to face life and not hide behind a drink. Some people call it their "Higher Self"
So, I can do things to get in touch and build a relationship with my Sober self. The part of me that needs to grow stronger and take the reins.
Many people say it was their best thinking that got them drunk and that using my sober self can't work. And that might be true for them and some others. But it was my unwillingness to think and face life that made me turn to drinking and drugging, and clearly some part of me wanted to live, realized that drinking was killing me and destroying my life and got me into recovery...so I built a relationship with THAT part of me, the part that was interested in saving my life.
I use my sober self as a HP in regards to 12 step. There is a sober me that wants something better for me, that is willing to face life and not hide behind a drink. Some people call it their "Higher Self"
So, I can do things to get in touch and build a relationship with my Sober self. The part of me that needs to grow stronger and take the reins.
Many people say it was their best thinking that got them drunk and that using my sober self can't work. And that might be true for them and some others. But it was my unwillingness to think and face life that made me turn to drinking and drugging, and clearly some part of me wanted to live, realized that drinking was killing me and destroying my life and got me into recovery...so I built a relationship with THAT part of me, the part that was interested in saving my life.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,122
With all do respect to everyone here, but I even have problems placing a higher power on mother nature or science, etc. Why would mother nature care if I drank? My drinking has no impact on science or how the world functions. The world will continue to turn with or without me.
I get how believing in a sense of a God could work. He is suppose to love you and has a special plan for you. But, science? The inner workings of the world have no special plan for anyone and is completely neutral not benevolent.
Sorry if I coming off rude as I really don't mean too, but I've been having this problem with AA from the beginning and am struggling to get past it somehow as well.
I get how believing in a sense of a God could work. He is suppose to love you and has a special plan for you. But, science? The inner workings of the world have no special plan for anyone and is completely neutral not benevolent.
Sorry if I coming off rude as I really don't mean too, but I've been having this problem with AA from the beginning and am struggling to get past it somehow as well.
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