Weasel1966

That feeling I get when I am around certain people or doing activities where I feel .... A bit on the outside. Disconnected from what I am doing at that moment.

Do you think it's a self judgement of sorts?

Maybe a thought pattern from my formative years?

Sobriety calls it out more often now.

It's kind of funny... Growing up gay I always described myself as an average guy who happened to be gay. Not fitting in the straight world or the gay. I slipped between the cracks of life. A life on the fringe.

My addictive voice just lathers itself in this type of thinking.

For the first time I treasure this emotional response to life. I need to be on the fringe for a while as I learn new habits. If I didn't do that I would stay immersed in my addictions. Never changing or seeing the need to change.

Life on the fringe has taught me a lot actually. Seeing myself from across the room lets me also see who I am more clearly. I always try to improve on what I see. For a while I gave up. Closed my eyes and hoped it would all just go away. But it won't. So here I sit. Addictions in hand. Taking each step as I balance on the fringe of my life. Happy to be here. Sober.

mecanix

Being on the fringes of things never interested me , i've always plunged in both feet first .

In some ways i have always felt an outsider , us alcoholics so unique eh ? Yeh as if ...

Gay and alcoholic ? yeh we're unique as well .. one in four i think was the figure for LGBTQ who "abuse" alcohol here in london ..

How i feel is often at odds with how things "realy" are .

By percieving the world and my inter-conectedness to life differently these days , i have changed how i feel .

Feelings follow on from seeing reality through our perception and judging it within our comprehension , like a horse before the cart .

Your fringe might be inside your own head , to me it might be a carpet .

cheers , M

Weasel1966

That was a great comment M!

I love this...
"Feelings follow on from seeing reality through our perception and judging it within our comprehension , like a horse before the cart . "

I am just feeling very removed from life today. So I will just let it wash over me and dig into work.

Thanks again!

hypochondriac

Sometimes it has worried me that I am on the fringe, so to speak I have never fitted in so I sometimes thought something was wrong with me. But really I think there are a lot of advantages of being adaptable and not stuck too much in the conventional mindset.

I can understand what you mean about sobriety making it more apparent, but alcohol never made me more acceptable, it just made me not care. Being happy and at peace is a much better aim than trying to fit in x

Michael66

Hi Weasel

I'm just reading a book by Oxford Prof, Diarmaid MacCulloch. In the intro he says that being gay helped him become the historian he is because he was so used to observing from the outside, and so used to looking for 'coded' behaviors.

Perhaps there are advantages to being a perimeter person.

ElegantlyWasted

I do think it gives one a natural inclination to view things (especially social dynamics) more objectively and clearly than the average person. I love people but am hardwired to always look at things from a devil's advocate position. Self judgement, ingrained thought pattern? Sure, I think we're all to an extent a product of our past experiences and re-examining leads to personal growth and wisdom which is probably essential to the healthy recovery of an addict. I've always like the phrase "Its not what you look at; its what you see". I also think there is great truth to the view that Alcoholism and Addiction in general are diseases of perception. I like your philosophical take " Happy to be here. Sober." Thanks for the post... Awesome thought food.

Nighthawk8820

This post resonates so deep with me. I am gay too and never really felt I fit in completely in many of my social circles. I have straight friends, mostly, but even when I worked as a DJ and was a regular in the gay bar scene, I never felt any really connection or like I had found my place. Where do I fit in was a question Ive asked more times than I can count. I didn't understand a lot of the aspects of gay culture, or found they weren't for me. Also when I got sober, my gay bar "friends" were the first to go or cut me out of their lives, which is fine. I have been back to the bar a few times for fundraisers or just to check in, and they are all doing the same things they were 5 years ago.There doesn't seem to be any change or growth of any sort. Im thankful I was able to move on from that scene.

When with my straight friends, I feel there is still sometimes a barrier where I cant fully connect with them. They have their girl troubles, and often I get left out because I cant relate or they think I might not be interested in an activity. Gay or not, I am still a guy and appreciate and seek out regular male bonding and activities. I like working on cars and being athletic too, I enjoy the regular things people enjoy doing, but for some reason my straight circles think I wouldn't. I felt isolated a lot in my life, and still run into it. I tried conforming to gay culture and stereotypes, but they weren't me either.

I used to think I had to conform to whatever group I was hanging out with, but now I realize I am just going to be me. I think there have been a million versions of myself, and I have played many roles through out my lifetime. Crap, I deserve an academy award!!!lol. Trying to maintain everyone's image of how they thought I was, or behaving a certain way to ensure whoever I was around felt comfortable was just exhausting. This is me, this is what I have to offer, and now I also see I dont need to change myself to fit anyone. I dont have that desire to mold to my surroundings, losing myself in doing so, anymore. Recognizing this and getting to this point has been an uphill struggle for me, which I think was only possible in getting sober and learning all I have so far in recovery. I am happy with the direction I am moving now. I feel a sense of contentment from the inside, which changed everything going on with my outside self. I wish you the best in discovering the same thing within yourself, because I understand how you feel.

Weasel1966

Nighthawk.... Thanks for that. I have felt an outsider all my life. I too find a barrier with m straight buddies. I don't have any gay friends except 2 I don't live near.

I am finding I have become much mor comfortable being me. If someone does not like it so be it. I tend to be mild mannered so not many show signs of not liking me. Also I am "masculine" lol so when I say I am gay I get a reaction. Lol that makes it harder in a way. I have to tell someone for the most part.

Anyway. Good to get to know you. That's for posting and the advice and support you provide.

Ken

Mizzuno

Hey Ken,
I dont know if its a strait or gay thing, a drinking or not drinking thing?.....All I know is that I too struggle with where I belong, and how I fit into the world. I am starting to think that this is far more common than I had considered. It reminds me of that saying; We come into the world alone, we die alone.......Some crap like that. Not very comforting at all. When I thought of life on the fringe..... I thought of leather jackets, bell bottoms, and tassle boots. I was too young for such nonsense. Too young? I wasn't even born yet. HA! Anyways, I know that I am not helping here, and I dont have any wisdom in this department. I just wanted to say that I can relate, and I have felt this way before on many occasions.
I think you are fabulous. Keep on Rockin in the Free World!

Fallow

Yes I am on the fringe. I always have been. Maybe that is why I always fit in with all the addicts alcoholics and outcasts. I don't know. In sober life I am realizing I never truly fit in there either.

Always a puzzle piece looking for a puzzle.

I don't fit in at AA. Don't fit in here. Certainly not in my marriage. Or at work.

The only difference between today and the past is I accept myself now. I only need to fit in with me. My daughter accepts me 100%. Its amazing what a child can teach. There is no judgment.

I read your thread about your friend the other day. I have lost a few I thought were real friends since getting sober. Not drinking buddies. But the reality is they judge me. If I can't be stupid with em they don't want my company. If I am stupid with them I hate myself.

Such is life. More on the fringe now than ever. But today I am at peace with me.

FreeFall

Fallow, I would disagree that you don't fit in here. I guess it's all in how you look at it-I always enjoy your thoughts and posts...Or, maybe SR is just one big land of the misfit toys and we all fit in equally? lol

When I was younger I was always in the middle of things and part of the group. When I got older and didn't go the standard path of marriage and children I found myself on the fringe everywhere except for when I was with drinking buddies. Now that I've quit I don't really fit anywhere. I still have a lot of friends, and am no recluse, but I find it very hard to find people I can relate to or have much in common with.

Ken, I think you have a better grip on this than I do. It bothers me that I no longer can naturally fit in when it was so easy before. You have a good attitude and are using it to learn and grow. I admire that.

Soberpotamus

Love this thread

I could probably write a book on this, but I'll refrain from being long-winded, lol. Though heterosexual, I can relate to feeling on the fringe in lots of ways.

I'll just say that when I open my mouth around a group of women... Lol, it's quite obvious that I didn't inherit whatever genes most women get... it doesn't take them long to realize I'm "different"... and I won't say it's a negative reaction I get, usually it's one of curiosity? Not sure. Maybe it's a particular type of intelligence thing, or a creativity thing... but I didn't get the shopping gene, or the love for makeup, or the googly eyed coo at the babies thing... soooo... I guess there are handful of women who love me for being who I am, but the majority probably feel I'm just "different" than them... oh well.

I guess the recurring theme in this thread seems to be... let's just be ourselves, because that's really all we can be, right? It takes all kinds to make this world go round

bigsombrero

You've got me thinking here Ken, thanks.

I'm a child of a gay parent, and ever since I was 12 years old I think it's really changed the way I view myself. Perhaps it's been even more influential in the way I view others. In 1989 it wasn't exactly "cool" to have a gay dad (not that it is today, but you know what I mean), and this was something my sister and I hid from our friends. I knew my family situation was different from everyone else's and I had nobody to talk to about it. I wasn't ashamed, rather I felt sad and offended every time I heard the put downs. It hurt. Why were people such morons about this stuff? And here I was, being brave and mature about it, but it was an accomplishment that came without reward. The whole situation merited conversation, time, thought - instead I just tried to forget about it because there was nowhere to turn for support.

Turns out I'm a "guy's guy", I was the captain of my high school basketball team, became a sports reporter out of college, had girls and all. I looked the part, but I never had the chance to really openly share my story. All I needed was someone to hug me and let me cry, just once, but it never happened.

Did growing up without peer support during a difficult time lead me to the fringe? I don't know, but I'm definitely there. I have been living in Central America for 5 of the last 10 months. There's no "end game" here, it's just my life. I don't have a blog, I'm not here to climb every volcano and check off a list. I used to take the subway to work each day, work 8 hours and go home to my cable TV. Now I take a moped to a small village, find a place to stay for a week, figure out how to feed myself and look around a bit. I leave the country every 90 days due to visa requirements and some additional duties back in Chicago. That's it. It's weird, huh? I know, but it's reality. Some people think it's awesome while others are confused and simply cannot comprehend what I'm all about.

On the outside I'm the picture of an adventurous, cultured, athletic guy who is living the dream. On the inside I still feel like that kid who is living a life that nobody can understand or relate to. I have no partners on this journey, and once again I carry the burdens alone.

Soberpotamus

This is awesome! I've often wanted to do just this. Had plans to leave the country right before I met my husband... was going to attempt this type of life, even had a plane ticket purchased... lol. Somehow I guess it wasn't meant to be. My husband showed up in my life just weeks before I was to leave! My plan wasn't well thought out, I'll admit that... my savings acct was dwindling and so I had to postpone my trip. He doesn't have the same love for travel that I do, but we're working on that

Mizzuno

Through out my life i have struggled with acceptance. Even to this day I hear the voices of the mean girls when I was a teenager in my head. " I dont like you." These words and actions of my peers were a hard thing for me to accept. I came from a brutal environment that hovered around me even when I tried to be like everyone else. There was a judgement to my existence. These feelings have followed me into my adult life. When I am told that I am too loud, or finicky, or whatever else people feel they need to tell me about me, I revert back to that rejection from my childhood. I have a hard time with connection to others, and I presume that other people feel the same about me. All I can do is be myself. I am comfortable with my strength, my weakness and my sense of self is becoming stronger and stronger. I was not put here on this planet to seek approval from everyone. It hurts that I am rejected, and just a few short weeks ago some hippy lady told me that I was not her favorite person because I was the messenger that had to reject her book. What am I saying? I see that there is a common feeling here among us. Could this be one of the many reasons as to why we drank alcohol in an abusive way, or did way to many drugs?

Soberpotamus

Very likely, yep.

FeenixxRising

I've found that once we accept ourselves, others will also accept us.

Nighthawk8820

Thanks man! Glad to meet you as well.

Nighthawk8820

Absolutely! I think most addicts have struggled through out their lives with wanting to belong, fitting in, and a certain level of social anxiety. When I was drunk, I was a social pariah. I could talk to anyone, be anyone..........but sober, I am much more reserved. Im learning to be more open and sure of myself without the booze, which has been pretty amazing.

Nighthawk8820

Isnt it amazing that events from our teen years can still be fresh in our minds all these years later? I still remember almost every single person from growing up who made it their mission to reject me, put me down, or was overtly mean. I even remember their names, lol. I wish the current version of myself could go back to my teen me and tell him every thing I know now, lol.