RobbyRobot

Yeah.

The discussion is good to have, I'm thinking. The reality is some folk do struggle with having a drink in their hands. Doing it intentionally (getting the drink in hand) to accomplish overcoming a desire for alcohol is a moot point.

It all seems to be too staged for me to navigate through it without snagging my ego on it, and from their pulling myself in too many directions.

Terminally Unique

Yeah, I'm certainly not saying it's for everyone. Initially, even though I was around alcohol bottles, I would keep my distance, and wouldn't touch them. I watched online video reviews of various types of scotch, where they taste it and describe it in vivid detail for a while before getting to that point.

Once the videos and the bottles didn't do much, even if I held them, I ramped it up. Smell is the closest I can get without actually drinking, so there isn't much that can trip me up anymore. The separation is complete. It's not done for drama or ego, though, just a different way of doing things. Advanced AVRT in action.

Sci-fi fans will probably remember the classic Bene Gesserit litany against fear:

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Mark75

Bingo!

However, that was really hard at first, too much self pity... still thinking life was over, all that.

Truth be told, I have smelled a glass of wine. Meh, no great loss, LOL... I do remember though, early on, catching a waft of spirits. Quite a jolt. LOL. Now days, I am not bothered by it... Like you said, I have control over what I feel. But, uh... What was that thing about spiritual fitness???...

I do believe that (our relationship with) alcohol, the beast if you will, is cunning, baffling and powerful and I don't need to remind myself on a regular basis... Society does that for me....

MentalLoop

I think you hit the nail right on the head for me...categorically spot on. This might sound crazy, but being a City person, there is all sorts of noise and commotion that goes on. You learn to mute the broad noises of the city and go about your daily business, and focus on the obscure or single anomoly if an when presented. Paralleling to liquor, only when it surrounds me on every side (I know seems crazy); am I able to shut it out. It is almost like sensory numbing. If it remained absent from my life in all aspects, then every time it reared its ugly head, then my mind and eye would turn. Then my mind would focus on the lone wolf of scotch, and try to obtain it. My wife drinks socially, I went out with the boys Sunday night at a Pub, and I throw all sorts of parties and BBQ's that involve liquor. I have never once faltered. I only falter when isolated and left with a void of focus. Simply put, much easier for me to ignore 50 bottles of liquor, then one hidden bottle of scotch.

RobbyRobot

Well, I'm still a student of RR, so I'll mind my manners, so to speak, lol. OTOH, the Beast is clearly only our desire, and not something else. To play with desire and enjoy the ongoing inter-play which correctly manifests, is to play with ego. Desire cannot be separated from ego. Bouts of fantastic ideations and delusions can of course seemingly separate ego from desire, because everything goes in the world of fantasy.

Example:

Back in my day, I found comfort with prostitutes. I found comfort because of the pain I was already having, back in the day. Without that same level of pain, sleeping with a prostitute today would not bring me comfort. Not that prostitutes are bad, but that I'm not in enough pain today to require that primal comfort.

Some things only work because nothing else (at the time) does, and not always because its the best choice to make. Looking back, I could do things differently and have been better off for it.

I'll never know in an absolute sense, because I'll never be drunk again, but I can add things together. You saying its not an ego thing does not make it so, of course, as you know. I'll not challenge your inner core beliefs. We're both too Alpha to bring ourselves down to that level of discussion.

I'll settle to disagree with you on this one, TU.

Big Time


Yeah. I love sci-fi. I totally agree with Fear being the mind-killer. I also don't need to prove how brave I am to myself by stopping myself from beating myself up, you know?

eJoshua

Nice Dune reference, TU.

I've wanted a "Fear is the mind killer" tattoo for quite a while.

m1k3

Or, to quote "Game of Thrones".

Fear is sharper than swords.

Terminally Unique

There is reference to an ancient form of the litany against fear in a later novel (Dune: The Machine Crusade):

Dee74

I see posters from time to time, usually male, who will do the test thing...whether it's keeping a bottle in the fridge or in the extreme, doing what you detailed TU.

I just don't get the idea of testing.

You're either a non drinker or you're not.
If there's no room for doubt - then surely there's nothing to test?

I'm happily a non drinker - my life is now built around that fact.
I already know that I can resist my desires, temptations, thoughts etc.

I remember just how much my alcoholism was destructive.

I don't see the point in taunting it unless it's some macho Man vs Nemesis thing, which is not my scene.

I'm a lover not a fighter
I'm done with fighting myself. I want peace now.

I accepted my alcoholism, I'm not fighting it.

That sniffing thing is not the kind of thing I'd recommend to anyone, especially someone new on the forum.

D

Dee74

closed by request of OP.

D