I need some advice about meetings
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Sapling--As I said earlier, I had a sponsor--who was extremely patient and made it clear that he was always there for when I was ready to do the fourth step. Since leaving the program I have learned that some sponsors do help sponsee's with the first few steps. None of mine ever did.
keithj--We read the step differently. To parse it out as you do feels to me like legalistic hairsplitting.
In the context a willingness to believe seems to be the same thing as belief. If you are a person with cancer and the doctor asks you to eat pasta three times a day--is a willingness to believe that pasta will cure cancer any different than believing that pasta will cure cancer? In meetings I never heard step two referred to anything other than a discovery of religious faith (or an imitation of it in the case of the guy who made a rock he found on the street his hp).
Early on I said to myself that I had actually done all the first three steps. But I soon realized that I was fooling myself. I did not want to get around the steps--if I was going to do them, I felt I had to do them completely--follow the intent as well as the letter.
This was an important stage of the journey. You may feel I was wrong in my interpretation of the step, but I was choosing honestly and integrity. I could have continued to claim I did the first three steps and gotten to work with a sponsor, maybe worked my way into the "inner circle" of the group. But I decided I had to do it honestly--which started me on my path to recovery.
Though I think the program misses an opportunity to help by leaving alcoholics/addicts on their own in the beginning and not offering practical advice for dealing with the urges, some good came of it in my case. Since I could not get external help I had to look within and decide what I wanted recovery to be. I had to define my values.
The downside is that newbies often come to different conclusions (like keithj and I apparently did), but maybe there is some good in the fact that we each as individuals had to decide what would be important in our recovery.
keithj--We read the step differently. To parse it out as you do feels to me like legalistic hairsplitting.
In the context a willingness to believe seems to be the same thing as belief. If you are a person with cancer and the doctor asks you to eat pasta three times a day--is a willingness to believe that pasta will cure cancer any different than believing that pasta will cure cancer? In meetings I never heard step two referred to anything other than a discovery of religious faith (or an imitation of it in the case of the guy who made a rock he found on the street his hp).
Early on I said to myself that I had actually done all the first three steps. But I soon realized that I was fooling myself. I did not want to get around the steps--if I was going to do them, I felt I had to do them completely--follow the intent as well as the letter.
This was an important stage of the journey. You may feel I was wrong in my interpretation of the step, but I was choosing honestly and integrity. I could have continued to claim I did the first three steps and gotten to work with a sponsor, maybe worked my way into the "inner circle" of the group. But I decided I had to do it honestly--which started me on my path to recovery.
Though I think the program misses an opportunity to help by leaving alcoholics/addicts on their own in the beginning and not offering practical advice for dealing with the urges, some good came of it in my case. Since I could not get external help I had to look within and decide what I wanted recovery to be. I had to define my values.
The downside is that newbies often come to different conclusions (like keithj and I apparently did), but maybe there is some good in the fact that we each as individuals had to decide what would be important in our recovery.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Sorry to have spoken at such length off the topic. I just wanted to be certain that my history was not misrepresented as some anti-12-step nonsense. It may not have been the path that worked for me, but I feel its positive influence every day.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Originally Posted by miamifella 
But I decided I had to do it honestly--which started me on my path to recovery.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by miamifella
keithj--We read the step differently. To parse it out as you do feels to me like legalistic hairsplitting.
Originally Posted by AA BB 1st
We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. "Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?" As soon as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way. It has been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built.
That was great news to us, for we had assumed we could not make use of spiritual principles unless we accepted many things on faith which seemed difficult to believe.
That was great news to us, for we had assumed we could not make use of spiritual principles unless we accepted many things on faith which seemed difficult to believe.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
I was asked "Since your way doesn't seem to be working for you and you are having problems, do you believe that a power greater than you may exist or are you willing to set aside your old beliefs?"
Step 3 was another simple question, then I wrote step 4.
Step 3 was another simple question, then I wrote step 4.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
The part that always tripped me up was not the belief in a power greater than myself (there are lots of those) but the belief that it could help me.
Again, I think it should be okay to let people ask questions about stuff like this. Especially early in recovery, it is a bit much to expect addicts/alcoholics just clearing their head to be able to figure out what is being asked of them by the steps. Some like sugarbear could figure it out. But not everyone can.
Now they can ask outside the program (on sites like this), but why do 12-step programs make them wait in the hope that one day someone will address their issue in a share? Yes, it helps them define their own values without other people influencing, but again it seems that an opportunity to help newbies is being lost.
Again, I think it should be okay to let people ask questions about stuff like this. Especially early in recovery, it is a bit much to expect addicts/alcoholics just clearing their head to be able to figure out what is being asked of them by the steps. Some like sugarbear could figure it out. But not everyone can.
Now they can ask outside the program (on sites like this), but why do 12-step programs make them wait in the hope that one day someone will address their issue in a share? Yes, it helps them define their own values without other people influencing, but again it seems that an opportunity to help newbies is being lost.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Originally Posted by miamifella
Again, I think it should be okay to let people ask questions about stuff like this. Especially early in recovery, it is a bit much to expect addicts/alcoholics just clearing their head to be able to figure out what is being asked of them by the steps. Some like sugarbear could figure it out. But not everyone can.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
In my experience most of the people at meetings (at least 90 percent), have less than two years of continuous clean time sobriety. Longer-time people may come back to speak, but you rarely see anyone with that kind of time attending meetings more than once a year or so.
Even if there were more of those kind of people, I probably was too much of a wuss to approach them. I hated the constant criticism, so as time went on I usually tried to get in an out of meetings as quickly as possible with as little conversation with people as I could. I tend to be overly self-critical so that may also have been another reason why this program did not work for me. If anything, I needed encouragement and the critical sessions before and after meetings felt like endless needling--which I already can do for myself!
Even if there were more of those kind of people, I probably was too much of a wuss to approach them. I hated the constant criticism, so as time went on I usually tried to get in an out of meetings as quickly as possible with as little conversation with people as I could. I tend to be overly self-critical so that may also have been another reason why this program did not work for me. If anything, I needed encouragement and the critical sessions before and after meetings felt like endless needling--which I already can do for myself!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Originally Posted by miamifella
In my experience most of the people at meetings (at least 90 percent), have less than two years of continuous clean time sobriety. Longer-time people may come back to speak, but you rarely see anyone with that kind of time attending meetings more than once a year or so.
Even if there were more of those kind of people, I probably was too much of a wuss to approach them. I hated the constant criticism, so as time went on I usually tried to get in an out of meetings as quickly as possible with as little conversation with people as I could. I tend to be overly self-critical so that may also have been another reason why this program did not work for me. If anything, I needed encouragement and the critical sessions before and after meetings felt like endless needling--which I already can do for myself!
Even if there were more of those kind of people, I probably was too much of a wuss to approach them. I hated the constant criticism, so as time went on I usually tried to get in an out of meetings as quickly as possible with as little conversation with people as I could. I tend to be overly self-critical so that may also have been another reason why this program did not work for me. If anything, I needed encouragement and the critical sessions before and after meetings felt like endless needling--which I already can do for myself!
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
I'm no SR cop but this has become yet another monumental shrine to derailing a thread started by a newcomer who came here to work on his recovery, how to get better, how to I improve his life.
AA this.....AA that........no, it's this.......no, it's that......did you take this step, did you take that step.....
these discussions, ESPECIALLY in the newcomer's threads.......especially when they degrade into passive-aggressive questioning of how or what someone other than the thread starter is doing in their recovery.....
If it were ME who was new to SR......and I was reading this thread because I was having a similar problem that I googled and got directed here, what I'd walk away with is a pretty crappy view of AA members bickering with non-AA people. Not very attractive at best...... and certainly not very helpful to the person WHO CAME HERE, STARTED A THREAD RIGHT AFTER GETTING HERE, AND WAS ASKING FOR HELP IN THE FIRST PLACE.
It's a frickin' shame.....
AA this.....AA that........no, it's this.......no, it's that......did you take this step, did you take that step.....
these discussions, ESPECIALLY in the newcomer's threads.......especially when they degrade into passive-aggressive questioning of how or what someone other than the thread starter is doing in their recovery.....
If it were ME who was new to SR......and I was reading this thread because I was having a similar problem that I googled and got directed here, what I'd walk away with is a pretty crappy view of AA members bickering with non-AA people. Not very attractive at best...... and certainly not very helpful to the person WHO CAME HERE, STARTED A THREAD RIGHT AFTER GETTING HERE, AND WAS ASKING FOR HELP IN THE FIRST PLACE.
It's a frickin' shame.....
Peace, Love, Sobriety
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 1,549
Calm down everyone. DayTrader is right, someone came here looking for help, let us not argue over the best way to help, but just help! I understand AA is helpful to many of us (myself included) but that is NOT the only path of recovery and we have to make sure we tell the newcomers this, so that they may find a path that fits them best and are able to actually start making progress.
Remember how scared you were on day 1? Think about that before clicking the post button sometimes.
Remember how scared you were on day 1? Think about that before clicking the post button sometimes.
Peace, Love, Sobriety
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 1,549
Originally Posted by miamifella
In my experience most of the people at meetings (at least 90 percent), have less than two years of continuous clean time sobriety. Longer-time people may come back to speak, but you rarely see anyone with that kind of time attending meetings more than once a year or so.
Maybe try some different meetings? At all the ones I attend there are old timers who attend regularly every week.
I've seen folks with 20, 30, one with 40 years. You kind of have to "shop around" a little bit until you find a good core group of meetings that you really like.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
I went to what must be dozens of different meetings and there may have been a few people with as much as five years at a couple of them, but rarely did you see anyone with over two years (except when called back as speakers).
I always thought after time people moved on to church, community, and family service/activities. This is one of the things I liked about the program--that it encouraged people to find a higher purpose in life and act on it.
I always thought after time people moved on to church, community, and family service/activities. This is one of the things I liked about the program--that it encouraged people to find a higher purpose in life and act on it.
Peace, Love, Sobriety
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 1,549
hmm, perhaps they can move on, but from what I've learned in my short 4 months you never get cured, you always need help to stay sober. I have been told by my sponsor as well as many older members that I need to stick around and get involved in the program and help others in order to help myself.
This site helps me a hell of a lot more than a meeting somtimes, but I vigilantly go to 5 meetings per week because I know I cant do this on my own. So whatever path you choose I commend you for making the effort. This disease is a powerful one.
This site helps me a hell of a lot more than a meeting somtimes, but I vigilantly go to 5 meetings per week because I know I cant do this on my own.
So whatever path you choose I commend you for making the effort. This disease is a powerful one.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
I agree about this site. It is great to have a number of people willing to engage on issues and genuinely wanting to help. I also like getting the perspective of hearing different people's experience.
Old & Sober Member of AA
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nursing Home in Brick, New Jersey
Posts: 5,174
Back to the original topic: advice about meetings.
I would suggest a variety of meetings...Open Speaker (anyone may attend)...Closed Discussion (only alcoholics/addicts).
Shop around to see where you feel the most comfortable. I was fortunate to live in an area where there were many meetings, both AA and NA...there was never an excuse for not making meetings.
I personally went to at least one meeting a day for the first few years. There were even lunch-time meetings for people who commuted to work.
If you go on line, you can find a list of meetings in your area...it should explain what kind of meeting each one is.
Get a meeting book...most groups make sure they have them available.
It may take you a while (not knowing how outgoing you are)...but, when you feel comfortable enough to do so, introduce yourself to someone (a greeter, the coffeemaker, group secretary or group chairperson, even the person sitting next to you)...a simple, "My name is ________, and I'm new." Do this at your first few meetings.
When you find a meeting you like/feel comfortable at, JOIN THE GROUP.
Get active...arrive a half-hour early...stay a half-hour later. Those chairs and tables don't get set up by themselves...the coffee doesn't get made without help...the floor doesn't get swept, garbage taken out by some miracle...it all takes cooperative group members. As a matter of fact, you can even do these things at any meeting you attend...you don't have to be a member of the group.
I got sober over thirty years ago with the help of a lot of AA meetings. I always preferred AA meetings...there is usually a lot of long-term sobriety there. However, if I needed a meeting and only NA was available, I had no qualms about going there. As far as I'm concerned, a drug is a drug is a drug...alcohol happened to be my drug of choice.
I'm not able to attend f2f meetings now, so SR serves as my support group. But, I miss all the people I met over the years...I miss the feeling of belonging and the comraderie. It saddens me to hear anyone say they got nothing out of meetings...even that they disliked meetings. There are so many hundreds of meetings...and, I didn't like all of them...it's hard to believe none would have been worth attending. I've heard it said, "There are no bad meetings, only bad listeners."
I would suggest a variety of meetings...Open Speaker (anyone may attend)...Closed Discussion (only alcoholics/addicts).
Shop around to see where you feel the most comfortable. I was fortunate to live in an area where there were many meetings, both AA and NA...there was never an excuse for not making meetings.
I personally went to at least one meeting a day for the first few years. There were even lunch-time meetings for people who commuted to work.
If you go on line, you can find a list of meetings in your area...it should explain what kind of meeting each one is.
Get a meeting book...most groups make sure they have them available.
It may take you a while (not knowing how outgoing you are)...but, when you feel comfortable enough to do so, introduce yourself to someone (a greeter, the coffeemaker, group secretary or group chairperson, even the person sitting next to you)...a simple, "My name is ________, and I'm new." Do this at your first few meetings.
When you find a meeting you like/feel comfortable at, JOIN THE GROUP.
Get active...arrive a half-hour early...stay a half-hour later. Those chairs and tables don't get set up by themselves...the coffee doesn't get made without help...the floor doesn't get swept, garbage taken out by some miracle...it all takes cooperative group members. As a matter of fact, you can even do these things at any meeting you attend...you don't have to be a member of the group.
I got sober over thirty years ago with the help of a lot of AA meetings. I always preferred AA meetings...there is usually a lot of long-term sobriety there. However, if I needed a meeting and only NA was available, I had no qualms about going there. As far as I'm concerned, a drug is a drug is a drug...alcohol happened to be my drug of choice.
I'm not able to attend f2f meetings now, so SR serves as my support group. But, I miss all the people I met over the years...I miss the feeling of belonging and the comraderie. It saddens me to hear anyone say they got nothing out of meetings...even that they disliked meetings. There are so many hundreds of meetings...and, I didn't like all of them...it's hard to believe none would have been worth attending. I've heard it said, "There are no bad meetings, only bad listeners."
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