TOPIC: "I Don't Do A.A."
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,518
Originally Posted by aasharon90 
If you are not "Doing AA" or an Alcoholics Anonymous
program of recovery, then what do you call being in a
site called Sober Recovery?
program of recovery, then what do you call being in a
site called Sober Recovery?
Sharon, I am on a site called Sober Recovery because I am looking for support for my recovery.
I choose to not challenge anyone else on their method of recovery.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Mound, MN
Posts: 154
My name is Matt and I don't do AA. What I did to recover can just be called "do what works for you". After getting out of treatment I knew that I needed to distance myself from AA. No meetings, big book, sponsor, steps etc... So I tell people "I don't do AA" becuase it's just not for me. People can call their choosen path whatever they want.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Sharon, I get it, but...........
Effective programs of recovery have much in common, IMHO... self examination, honesty, peer support, cleaning up wreckage, accountability, all that. I am often struck by similarities between some AA principles and those of what many here do. The concept of powerlessness, for example, is not that different, at least as I understand it, from those who adamantly state that they are not... in this case, I think, the language and focus is just different...
But there is that higher power thing, the spiritual solution, the fundamental principle that all of AA is built upon... That will always be the key difference for many of us. That does not make one way better than another... it is, however, what it is...
I do think that we all play together pretty well and.... I find SR an amazingly helpful part of my own recovery... I think we can thank our wonderful moderators and the thoughtful people who post here, with the only motive being... advancing each of our own's freedom from addiction.
Effective programs of recovery have much in common, IMHO... self examination, honesty, peer support, cleaning up wreckage, accountability, all that. I am often struck by similarities between some AA principles and those of what many here do. The concept of powerlessness, for example, is not that different, at least as I understand it, from those who adamantly state that they are not... in this case, I think, the language and focus is just different...
But there is that higher power thing, the spiritual solution, the fundamental principle that all of AA is built upon... That will always be the key difference for many of us. That does not make one way better than another... it is, however, what it is...
I do think that we all play together pretty well and.... I find SR an amazingly helpful part of my own recovery... I think we can thank our wonderful moderators and the thoughtful people who post here, with the only motive being... advancing each of our own's freedom from addiction.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Murrill--
I think you are probably right. But there are many of us who never went out for coffee after the meeting or had much guidance in the program. Sponsors where I came from were there to take you from Step 4 to Step 12 and that was it. I have often felt that a lot more one-on-one guidance early on would have helped a great deal.
I guess the tradition of the after-meeting critiquing of shares is supposed to do that. But it is too shaming. For me the embarrassment of being told everything that I did wrong made me try to get out of there as fast as possible. If there is supposed to be a social element to the program, that is not a way to foster it!
I think you are probably right. But there are many of us who never went out for coffee after the meeting or had much guidance in the program. Sponsors where I came from were there to take you from Step 4 to Step 12 and that was it. I have often felt that a lot more one-on-one guidance early on would have helped a great deal.
I guess the tradition of the after-meeting critiquing of shares is supposed to do that. But it is too shaming. For me the embarrassment of being told everything that I did wrong made me try to get out of there as fast as possible. If there is supposed to be a social element to the program, that is not a way to foster it!
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Originally Posted by miamifella
Murrill--
I think you are probably right. But there are many of us who never went out for coffee after the meeting or had much guidance in the program. Sponsors where I came from were there to take you from Step 4 to Step 12 and that was it. I have often felt that a lot more one-on-one guidance early on would have helped a great deal.
I guess the tradition of the after-meeting critiquing of shares is supposed to do that. But it is too shaming. For me the embarrassment of being told everything that I did wrong made me try to get out of there as fast as possible. If there is supposed to be a social element to the program, that is not a way to foster it!
I think you are probably right. But there are many of us who never went out for coffee after the meeting or had much guidance in the program. Sponsors where I came from were there to take you from Step 4 to Step 12 and that was it. I have often felt that a lot more one-on-one guidance early on would have helped a great deal.
I guess the tradition of the after-meeting critiquing of shares is supposed to do that. But it is too shaming. For me the embarrassment of being told everything that I did wrong made me try to get out of there as fast as possible. If there is supposed to be a social element to the program, that is not a way to foster it!
As far as the social aspect of the program goes...I don't go out for coffee with these new friends I have made in AA as much...We have BBQ's...Get together and watch games...All meet up at a pizza parlor...There is something about sitting at a table....Laughing and telling stories with 10 alcoholics and not a drop of alcohol is on the table...It's remarkable.
It is a simple program...What I mean is...It is as simple as...You get out of it....What you put into it...Nothing more...Nothing less.
MIND OF DESTRUCTIVE TASTE
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 744
I don't 'do' AA/NA anymore. I did spend years going to meetings and giving them a chance. I have since realized that it is simply not for me. However, I respect everyone for their choices when it comes to their recovery - do what works for you. SR has been critical in my recovery and I am grateful for that.
I also will suggest AA/NA to a newcomer because it is undeniable that these programs have helped save MANY addicts and it is worth it to find out if it works for you.
I know many people will defend the 12 steps/meeting as not being religious, however I have personally seen quite the opposite. There is no getting around a higher power/'god' in this program and because I am an atheist I feel uncomfortable about this. That is just my opinion.
There are many paths to guide you on your recovery, you just have to find one that works for you. That is all that really matters, AA or no AA.
-Jess
I also will suggest AA/NA to a newcomer because it is undeniable that these programs have helped save MANY addicts and it is worth it to find out if it works for you.
I know many people will defend the 12 steps/meeting as not being religious, however I have personally seen quite the opposite. There is no getting around a higher power/'god' in this program and because I am an atheist I feel uncomfortable about this. That is just my opinion.
There are many paths to guide you on your recovery, you just have to find one that works for you. That is all that really matters, AA or no AA.
-Jess
enough of this gooey show of emotions.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 385
Sometimes I forget that AA is made up of a large number of arguably insane people, most of whom could not get along with each other or agree on nearly anything on their own. AA has never lied to me....but members of AA have. We are all in different stages of development and recovery. We each bring our character defects, fears, doubts and insecurities into AA with us; and, those simply don't disappear overnight.
I came to AA to stop drinking and save my marriage. I stayed because AA showed me a "new design for living," in which escaping life was no longer more desirable than living life (on life's terms). It taught me acceptance. I think AA is about love and tolerance, not about drinking or not drinking. It's just difficult to be either loving or tolerant without sobriety....at least I couldn't.
Like every organization, group, sect, religion, political party, etc., AA describes a certain set of principles and behaviors that it suggests are essential to it's goal(s): successful recovery. Groups are founded on shared purposes and beliefs. The major difference between AA and all other groups is its refusal in action, word or dogma to sit in judgement on others. Thus, one of the most important statements I've ever heard in AA is "identify, don't compare." One way we identify is that we do not act on the basis of directives from group "leaders," but from clear and explicit instructions which tell us in detail how the program works. That is called "the twelve step program," and none of it is merely suggested. The fellowship supports the program, and provides us with a sense of belonging, of community....a way to identify rather than compare. What is suggested is that if I think this road to recovery will work, then I can give it a shot....but I must do it exactly as it is written. Like baking a cake....if I change the recipe, the result may not be so awfully good.<G>
I believe AA is, indeed, the "Language of the Heart." Love makes no distinctions, no judgments, no exclusions. It is all inclusive and available to any who are willing to commit to its principles.....just like AA. What AA gave me was a structure and a path by which I could finally really "get it," finally understand love and know how to practice it.( and believe me, I don't always practice it!!!!)
I may disagree with how you do or don't "practice" the program, but I can't differentiate re: membership, as long as the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. We have a common problem, and AA leads us to a common solution....if we choose it. And if we don't, hopefully we'll find an alternative....AA is only one path among many. I simply would not identify myself as a member of any group unless I practiced their principles in all my affairs.
Not so easy. Most people lose the desire very quickly once it becomes inconvenient or difficult, or when they lost the benefit of desperation. AA worked really well for me....and millions of others. But I had to do the work, not just sit around at meetings taking everyone's inventory. Twelve simple steps and twelve basic principles to practice. Not so complicated. Not so easy either. Until I was willing to, as AA says, "give up my old ideas completely" the peace and serenity of recovery eluded me.
But how does one give up all the old ideas, I wondered? I learned that all I needed to do was.....practice, practice, practice. Which ultimately means to be aware of all my mistakes and be willing to correct them rather than ignoring, excusing or rationalizing them.
Sorry to have gone on and on like this, but it's what I do<G>. Ask anyone who's known me from the past on SR. I just can't keep my big mouth shut.
It's a good thing that I don't take myself too seriously.
blessings from
Zenbear.
I came to AA to stop drinking and save my marriage. I stayed because AA showed me a "new design for living," in which escaping life was no longer more desirable than living life (on life's terms). It taught me acceptance. I think AA is about love and tolerance, not about drinking or not drinking. It's just difficult to be either loving or tolerant without sobriety....at least I couldn't.
Like every organization, group, sect, religion, political party, etc., AA describes a certain set of principles and behaviors that it suggests are essential to it's goal(s): successful recovery. Groups are founded on shared purposes and beliefs. The major difference between AA and all other groups is its refusal in action, word or dogma to sit in judgement on others. Thus, one of the most important statements I've ever heard in AA is "identify, don't compare." One way we identify is that we do not act on the basis of directives from group "leaders," but from clear and explicit instructions which tell us in detail how the program works. That is called "the twelve step program," and none of it is merely suggested. The fellowship supports the program, and provides us with a sense of belonging, of community....a way to identify rather than compare. What is suggested is that if I think this road to recovery will work, then I can give it a shot....but I must do it exactly as it is written. Like baking a cake....if I change the recipe, the result may not be so awfully good.<G>
I believe AA is, indeed, the "Language of the Heart." Love makes no distinctions, no judgments, no exclusions. It is all inclusive and available to any who are willing to commit to its principles.....just like AA. What AA gave me was a structure and a path by which I could finally really "get it," finally understand love and know how to practice it.( and believe me, I don't always practice it!!!!)
I may disagree with how you do or don't "practice" the program, but I can't differentiate re: membership, as long as the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. We have a common problem, and AA leads us to a common solution....if we choose it. And if we don't, hopefully we'll find an alternative....AA is only one path among many. I simply would not identify myself as a member of any group unless I practiced their principles in all my affairs.
Not so easy. Most people lose the desire very quickly once it becomes inconvenient or difficult, or when they lost the benefit of desperation. AA worked really well for me....and millions of others. But I had to do the work, not just sit around at meetings taking everyone's inventory. Twelve simple steps and twelve basic principles to practice. Not so complicated. Not so easy either. Until I was willing to, as AA says, "give up my old ideas completely" the peace and serenity of recovery eluded me.
But how does one give up all the old ideas, I wondered? I learned that all I needed to do was.....practice, practice, practice. Which ultimately means to be aware of all my mistakes and be willing to correct them rather than ignoring, excusing or rationalizing them.
Sorry to have gone on and on like this, but it's what I do<G>. Ask anyone who's known me from the past on SR. I just can't keep my big mouth shut.
It's a good thing that I don't take myself too seriously.
blessings from
Zenbear.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 267
At the dentist with some time so I will bite. This entire thread seems eerily similar to debating different faiths or the lack thereof. At the end, their basic messages are all the same. Don't lie, don't steal, be good, etc. Sharon, I suspect this is part of what you are driving to...I do find it interesting that some of us insist on pointing out how Aa just doesn't work for them. Others insist on pointing out Aa is the way to go. Personally - do what you have to do, just don't drink today.
PS - Never been to Aa, read the big book cover to cover three times in four weeks, an orthodox Christian married to a Muslim with baptized athiest children.....when do we get to my mental cookoo?
PS - Never been to Aa, read the big book cover to cover three times in four weeks, an orthodox Christian married to a Muslim with baptized athiest children.....when do we get to my mental cookoo?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by miamifella
Murrill--
I think you are probably right. But there are many of us who never went out for coffee after the meeting or had much guidance in the program. Sponsors where I came from were there to take you from Step 4 to Step 12 and that was it. I have often felt that a lot more one-on-one guidance early on would have helped a great deal.
I guess the tradition of the after-meeting critiquing of shares is supposed to do that. But it is too shaming. For me the embarrassment of being told everything that I did wrong made me try to get out of there as fast as possible. If there is supposed to be a social element to the program, that is not a way to foster it!
I think you are probably right. But there are many of us who never went out for coffee after the meeting or had much guidance in the program. Sponsors where I came from were there to take you from Step 4 to Step 12 and that was it. I have often felt that a lot more one-on-one guidance early on would have helped a great deal.
I guess the tradition of the after-meeting critiquing of shares is supposed to do that. But it is too shaming. For me the embarrassment of being told everything that I did wrong made me try to get out of there as fast as possible. If there is supposed to be a social element to the program, that is not a way to foster it!
blessings
zb
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 343
Originally Posted by miamifella
Murrill--
I think you are probably right. But there are many of us who never went out for coffee after the meeting or had much guidance in the program. Sponsors where I came from were there to take you from Step 4 to Step 12 and that was it. I have often felt that a lot more one-on-one guidance early on would have helped a great deal.
I guess the tradition of the after-meeting critiquing of shares is supposed to do that. But it is too shaming. For me the embarrassment of being told everything that I did wrong made me try to get out of there as fast as possible. If there is supposed to be a social element to the program, that is not a way to foster it!
I think you are probably right. But there are many of us who never went out for coffee after the meeting or had much guidance in the program. Sponsors where I came from were there to take you from Step 4 to Step 12 and that was it. I have often felt that a lot more one-on-one guidance early on would have helped a great deal.
I guess the tradition of the after-meeting critiquing of shares is supposed to do that. But it is too shaming. For me the embarrassment of being told everything that I did wrong made me try to get out of there as fast as possible. If there is supposed to be a social element to the program, that is not a way to foster it!
While I am sorry that your AA experience was not a pleasant one, I am hopeful that you have found another way. There really are many paths, and at the end of the conversations I often find we are saying the same things.
I am not familiar with "...the tradition of the after-meeting critiquing of shares..." That was not my experience. I was so desperate for help, and it marked one of the few times in my life that I was receptive to what others had to offer. I was not shamed, other than what I imposed on myself, and my sponsor was available for so many moments.
I began to forgive myself when others shared experiences similar to my own--and I saw that they had emerged intact and happy. The program of AA is the 12-steps, and I think members are generous in sharing how they managed to apply those steps in their own lives. I don't know that there is "supposed" to be a "social element" to AA, but it seems to be a natural progression among people who have nearly died in despair and isoloation. As I see it, there are the 12 steps (which were identified by the early mambers after the fact), and then there are the freely shared experiences of members who describe how they put the steps to work in their lives. Take what you need & leave the rest.
I have often believed that what we hear says more about us than about those who said it.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Sappling that is great for you. I think that if a sponsor makes his or herself available for questions and to talk that is great. It sounds like you got one-on-one time with your sponsor early on. And it is wonderful that you made friends in the program.
From everyone I ever spoke to f2f or online, it seems that everyone for whom 12-step programs worked had someone to help them through the early days in the program. But again, not everyone has had that experience. Many sponsors limit their interaction with sponsees at the start or have too many sponsees to have much one-on-one time with any individual. I probably could have asked more from my sponsors, but I did not know enough to know that I could.
There are a number of us, who only had the book to guide us. And even the best book in the world cannot hold your hand or look you in the eye. The surest path to recovery is not an intellectual one. Rather it is built on relationships. It was not until I was able to discuss my addiction with one person that I really began recovery. I think smart sponsors like yours intuit this and are there engaging with sponsees right from the first step. But there are those who wait till the fourth. I think that is too late.
From everyone I ever spoke to f2f or online, it seems that everyone for whom 12-step programs worked had someone to help them through the early days in the program. But again, not everyone has had that experience. Many sponsors limit their interaction with sponsees at the start or have too many sponsees to have much one-on-one time with any individual. I probably could have asked more from my sponsors, but I did not know enough to know that I could.
There are a number of us, who only had the book to guide us. And even the best book in the world cannot hold your hand or look you in the eye. The surest path to recovery is not an intellectual one. Rather it is built on relationships. It was not until I was able to discuss my addiction with one person that I really began recovery. I think smart sponsors like yours intuit this and are there engaging with sponsees right from the first step. But there are those who wait till the fourth. I think that is too late.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 15,240
Sitting in an A.A. meeting for that day filled
with many people, not knowing anything about
them, a fellow stands and say, "Hi, im so and
so and i'm sober today but don't do A.A."
Puzzeling as it may sound, I just accept that
person just the way they are and move on to
someone else sharing some ESH listening to
the message of hope passed along so freely.
Thank you all so much for sharing ur thoughts
on this topic. It is all much appreciated.
Smiling and enjoying another sober day in
recovery.
21 yrs strong.
with many people, not knowing anything about
them, a fellow stands and say, "Hi, im so and
so and i'm sober today but don't do A.A."
Puzzeling as it may sound, I just accept that
person just the way they are and move on to
someone else sharing some ESH listening to
the message of hope passed along so freely.
Thank you all so much for sharing ur thoughts
on this topic. It is all much appreciated.
Smiling and enjoying another sober day in
recovery.
21 yrs strong.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 343
Miamifella,
I probably could not have made use of what AA offered if I had not been in an extended inpatient-intensive outpatient treatment program. I am very introverted--and quite prideful, I'm afraid--and I don't think I would have wanted to draw attention to myself. In fact, one reason that I avoided AA for so many years was that I believed it was a religious program--and I thought the Big Book was the Bible!
I have also been in therapy (for clinical depression when I was about five years sober), and I found a counselor who had a background in addictions. In fact, her two sons were in AA. It was helpful to me that she undestood my point of departure.
I probably could not have made use of what AA offered if I had not been in an extended inpatient-intensive outpatient treatment program. I am very introverted--and quite prideful, I'm afraid--and I don't think I would have wanted to draw attention to myself. In fact, one reason that I avoided AA for so many years was that I believed it was a religious program--and I thought the Big Book was the Bible!
I have also been in therapy (for clinical depression when I was about five years sober), and I found a counselor who had a background in addictions. In fact, her two sons were in AA. It was helpful to me that she undestood my point of departure.
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