Terminally Unique

The "marijuana maintenance program" (MMP) is "similar" in that the alcoholic is substituting marijuana for alcohol in order to calm the anxiety, but it is not officially sanctioned by AA, although some "harm reduction" advocates do favor it. Personally, I do not recommend it, although if one happens to be quitting both alcohol and marijuana at the same time, it might be feasible to quit alcohol first, and later marijuana.

Most of the time, though, and this is only my personal observation, I see that people who switch to marijuana from alcohol tend to smoke a boatload, often for years. If they can't score for some reason or other, they will often get very "edgy" and be very tempted to go to the liquor store. Excluding those who are in a harm reduction program, most are usually "in the closet" about their marijuana use.

ru12

"Personally, if I used ANY substance to feel good, I would consider it a relapse."

So, do you drink coffee? Smoke cigarettes? Take an aspirin? If so, why? Perhaps to feel something right? Perhaps even better?

Squizz, why do you care what she takes?

lovingit

How did she just take a percocet? This is important. Where there's one, there's another. Was she complaining of a headache and someone offered it to her? If that's how it went down, I say no relapse. If she hoards them, keeps a stash, or specifically asked for it knowing someone who has them, I say yes relapse. Been there done that.

Squizz

Well quite frankly, because I feel it's running a dishonest program if you really want to know. If I have a headache, and go out and smoke a joint, that's a-okay? Or drink one beer? Come on here. I feel it makes a mockery of sobriety when people do this kind of stuff.

If you're not prescribed something, and you take it anyway, that to me constitutes a relapse. Case closed. She could have easily taken a Tylenol, Advil, or something over the counter.

Taking a Percocet is extreme in this circumstance. If I took something every time I had a headache, I'd have formed a habit pretty quickly.

Remember........."Honesty, Open-mindness, and Willingness."

But I digress.

Dee74

I'm not making comment on your friend. It's impossible to make comment without knowing all the facts I think...and I really believe that the only recovery I should be that interested in is my own.

But the general idea we're discussing here is not something that's exclusive to only one recovery method....

It was a natural thing to do for me...I moved off marijuana 'effortlessly' by drinking more... I thought I'd solved my drugs problem.

It wasn't until I really got into recovery that I realised I didn't have a pot problem or a alcohol problem or a cigarette problem or a buying CDs problem...

I had a me problem.

D

ru12

I agree Dee. I drank, at least partially, because I wasn't comfortable just being alone with my feelings. So I altered the way I felt with booze.

No I just sit with the uncomfortable feelings, knowing that they will soon pass.

Squizz, I too wouldn't take medicine that wasn't prescribed for me. But what others do isn't really under my control. And sometimes self-medication is a better choice if the options are worse . . . I didn't mean to bust your chops. Sometimes written forum communication can sound much harsher than the intention.

Terminally Unique

Squizz, I do feel you on this one, but it's best to just worry about our own sobriety date, etc.

If you're a cynic like me, though, you can always assume that everyone is lying about their sobriety date. It simplifies things. :-)

Suresh

I second you on that AVRT! we'd literally go crazy should we choose to ponder about everything.

Rusty Zipper

that damm self-will

it can stir up some crap huh? lol

squizz, does your friend still have a headache?

silly

A percocet for a headache? That's extreme. And I think most people in AA would agree that this would reset her sobriety date. I mean, the first thought through an average person's head when they get a headache isn't "narcotics will fix me!". Usually it's Aleve, maybe Excederin Migraine... How did she even get the drugs? Who goes around offering their percocet for another's headache? It seems very suspect to me. What else does she take it for?
That being said, there's nothing you can do or say to change her way of thinking. If you feel it's affecting your sobriety or really just bugging the sh*t out of you, distance yourself from this person. That'll help you move on and get back to the focus on your own sobriety.
I have a pretty good idea of how you feel. I've been dealing with a similar situation with a formerly sober friend. I had to stop being friends with her because I just focused too much on her and it was kind of poisoning my own thinking.

silly

I like that, AVRT. But, I AM a cynic like you

Squizz

Meh...........

You guys are right. I shouldn't care. And I am cynical. What can I say though? I have my faults just like everyone else. It's just something I need to work on.

I certainly don't work a perfect program (never claimed to) so I shouldn't expect others to do so.

I should just worry about what works for me, and keeping that in order. (And for the most part, I have been of late. Things are actually going VERY well.)

I'm just the typical cynical alcoholic/drug addict. Constantly putting things under a microscope, and usually things I shouldn't even bother worrying about.

Threshold

I am the only person who could definitively answer the question "am I an addict" I'm the only one who knows if I am clean of substance, living clean (cause I have process addictions as well) or if I am living sober, which is a whole nother animal for me.

I'm the only one who knows if I have reservations, if I relapse etc. I set the bar for my own recovery.

I actually don't count days, because I found it counterproductive for me. I haven't used for a few months. I'm sure all kinds of people could draw all kinds of attention away from their own programs by picking apart mine. I know I've done that with other people's programs. At the end of the day though, I take my own conscious to bed, I wake up and have to look at my own face in the mirror, and decide if I am going to get through a day without using.


Is my life unmanageable? Not today it wasn't because I left it in good hands rather than squeezing the life out of it by applying my usual old strangle hold to it.

When I first got clean, I was on pain meds following surgery. I used them because I needed to (argue amongst yourselves as to the validity of that statement) but I didn't abuse them, and consequently was not abusing myself.

Squizz

Nothing wrong with that in my eyes. If it's prescribed, and you're taking it as per the directions, no problems.

iliveforyou

From personal experience I am addict with that good ol' addictive personality. Taking a perc for a headache? That is a bit much. I suffer from chronic migraines and I don't take anything but useless excedrin and nothing else. I am taking pain meds (my latest addiction for 4 yrs) for chronic pain conditions which allow me to somewhat function. I now take them as prescribed cause my husband holds my pills/patches.

Again despite DOC, any addict at any point in time can become addicted to other substances.

For me, using at all, no matter what it is, is a relapse. I simply cannot use. Period. And I would change my date of sobriety, even if it was just one time.

That's just my 2 cents. Taking it for a headache is suspect for sure.

She needs to get honest with herself and her recovery in order to move forward.

-Jess

Squizz

That's the way I look at it as well. Heck, this morning I went to an AA meeting, and a lady there had to get a 30 day chip. It normally wouldn't seem weird, except that I'd known her to have 2+ years.

Same scenario, abused her pain medication (percs as well, but she was actually prescribed them) and eventually drank.

That's why I think you should change your sobriety date if you use ANYTHING.

And by anything I mean the following:

1)Alcohol
2)Street drugs
3)Non prescribed medication (even if it is only ONE pill)

And that's just how I run my recovery. I guess everyone has their own way of doing things though, and if it works for them, it's no skin off my back.

Phillyphan8811

I'm with Squizz. If you're not prescribed, it's using. If I take one sip of beer, it's using. I'm also at the point where it's all or nothing for me. When I commit to something I want to be all or nothing.

Am I going to miss the taste of beer? Hell yes, I will. Still doesn't mean I will go out and take a taste of a buddy's beer.

Squizz

Agree 100%.

Heck, I feel I have to even watch myself further: I gotta' be care of other things. For instance, I know gambling is NOT a good idea for a recovering drug addict/alcoholic.

Having affairs, and rampant sexual escapades probably isn't a good idea either.

Obviously I wouldn't change my sobriety date if I did either of those things, but I'll you this much: When I get into that sorta' activity, I'm skating on thin ice.

It's just like going to a bar, and drinking pop. It just doesn't work.

NoelleR

I guess I'll place my vote with the "it's none of my business" folks. It's none of my business how another person views his/her sobriety date. It's not even any of my business what kind of program a person is working, in my eyes (honest or not)......

On the question of whether prescribed (for me) or not.....well..... I live in chronic pain (and that's with meds; w/o I can't function at all). There was a time when I neded to go to CA (I live in TX) on an emergency, and I forgot some of my meds. I got back spasms, and was in lots 'n lots of pain. I had my pain meds, but I'd forgotten my muscle relaxants. My friend, with whom I was staying, had a prescription for flexeril (one of the muscle relaxants I'm also prescribed, but had left in TX, some 2000 miles away), and she gave me some to get me through my time there.

Now, they weren't technically 'my' prescription, but I sure didn't change my sobriety/clean date.....tylenol...? advil....? other otc's...? beside being bad for one's kidneys and/or liver, for me, they just don't work.


(o:
NoelleR