michelle01

There are positives and negatives with using the Internet, I think that can also apply to using it in recovery. It's a great information resource for me but I try to keep what is said here in perspective, and I also have some other forms of support.

Yes there's room for different views and opinions but not insults - people however on the Internet will often say things that they would never say in rl to another person. We have to be careful not to make assumptions about other people, in this format, as we don't always have the complete information.

There are times I'll take some time out before replying to someone. And I do talk about spirituality but do my best not to bring religion into it on the neutral forums.

I haven't noticed anything around here lately though, if there was I missed it. A nice way to show our appreciation to Dee I think would be to do our own bit to maintain the harmony here in his absence.

For the record, sober here for more than 1 year, no AA for a long time and I'm quite happy in sobriety. I do have help, but I really do have to be firm with myself this way.

At times I've had very negative feelings about AA, I've come across prickly people in the program who tried to tell me I wasn't alcoholic, that I knew nothing about alcoholism because I wasn't in 12 step, etc. But I've also met some great people in AA and have tried to put that anger behind me, I'm glad the program has worked out for them. A true sign of recovery I feel is a lessening of the black and white attitudes, more mutual respect and tolerance for differences between individuals... but yes we do have unity in sharing the same fight against addiction.

SASA

As for me, I think all opinions are valid and a lot of times when we get stretched is actually what makes us think and advance. I see opinions as a way to understand a topic from somebodys view. You know in indian philosophy they have the word Maja (not sure I spelled this correctly) and it is the state you see the world trough your eyes you think it is the right way, however everybody has their own perception created by thier experiences at a certain time. So if somebody gives advice or puts you down it is created by experiences of this person. Either way, it can advance you and if you look at you and find it is not for you and you feel offended by the post maybe the person it comes form is not as advanced and will learn over time. We are all here trying to find our own way to recovery, the way of recovery is unqiue for each of us and we share our ideas. At least that is how I see things. (Hope nobody hits ignore on me now, lol, just kidding......)

Supercrew

I am opinionated to a fault, but I would never try to dictate to others that my path of recovery is going to be a great path for them as well. My path is exactly that....my path.

But we have to also realize that some programs, when followed in what some will consider the proper way, suggest or even require that people using the program truthfully have to believe it is the only way to help a specific type of alcoholic, and also suggest that they basically spread the word/recruit, to stay active in the program.

So although I don't agree with it all of the time, it is hard to fault the person who is posting their strong opinions when these posts are basically an integral part of their recovery program...and spreading that to others will supposedly help keep them sober. The problem is this isn't strictly an AA forum, so many times the strong message is met with opposing opinions instead of being taken as a fact as in an AA room.

After PMing and cooresponding with some of the hardliners I feel some sympathy for them, because they are really doing what they believe is best and what they were taught to sustain their sobriety.

As far as the ignore button, I would never use it, but I enjoy reading things that I don't agree with...it makes me think.

Fandy

Anyone can offer help to others through their experience and if it helps them in the process that's good too.

But I think the point that we have to keep in the forefront is HOW you say it.

i came across a posting from someone yesterday that on one hand stated they were not *hard-azzed* but their next sentence stated that they were a member of AA for 34 years, the book should be followed and they didn't think they had to follow being politically correct or were tired of being PC...( I am parapharasing here not verbatim).

It's OK to be nice and polite, every post you make does not have to be an earth-shattering statement of sobriety.

One of the most important things I have learned since I joined SR is Rule #62....(thank you Rusty Zipper). I try to practice it here and in RL.

so if that is part of AA, in my own way it's OK!

plus I have the utmost respect for all of the people who run this website, it can't be easy....like "herding cats".

Supercrew

I agree Fandy, but if you thought that by "preaching" you were able to stay sober,, and that was what you were taught, and if you quit preaching you would drink again, would you preach?

If I thought it was the only way and I failed at every other way I tried, and I was having success I would have to say that I might preach louder. But we all have to find our own way, and put up with what we don't believe and let it pass.

Fandy

for me it's just the opposite...Preaching, church was shoved down my throat as a youngster....then my mother continued the preaching at home...

I think i would prefer to go to hell-o in a handbasket.

Supercrew

Ok...me too.

The reality is if I couldn't enjoy my sobriety I wouldn't be sober....and I don't preach....I might lecture occassionally, at least that's what my kids tell me.

kiki5711

I get the whole thing, let everyone use whatever they can to become healthy, including religion, but the problem is that those that choose "this venue" often find themselves having the need to "preach/save" others with the same method.

This is what gets on my nerves. The last thing I want to hear in a meeting is about "Jesus Haleluah, Praise the Lord, I'm Saved" and couldn't do it without him.

That is just as inconsiderate as those who are past that and choose to recover with other means and support and are only advocating their way.

With those kind of "religious shout outs", I always feel like I have to talk to them like to a child, and do away with my feelings in order not to hurt theirs.

suki44883

ChikkaB

Some folks get rabid when they find religion. Like ex-smokers who go on anti-smoking crusades, temperance converts can sometimes secretly fear their own recovery is so fragile that they must cram their methods of choice down the throats of everyone around them, seeking validation for their choices in the approval of others. Fear makes humans do weird things.

AA helped me get and stay sober, and I heartily recommend it to anyone who needs help quitting booze and cleaning up. But I'm not an AA thumper, and my program has never been 100% according to the guidelines. Note that they are "guidelines", not commandments. AA is the collective wisdom of nearly a hundred years and millions of alcoholics beating the disease. You don't have to do anything they say, but you'd be a damned fool not to listen with an open mind to people who have what you want.

Ignore buttons are good. Thinking twice before hitting the 'post' button, even better. Relaxing with a cold lemonade by the pool on a hot summer day, best of all.

LaFemme

I'm pretty religious, which ironically is one of the reasons I didn't go the AA route.

Whatever keeps you sober...and preferably happy

cabledude

I've got a perhaps odd take on this subject.

I'm active in several alternative recovery programs and support others there online and in rl, despite getting sober in AA and continuing to be involved there. It means through the years I continually must put up with a lot from people who feel I need to know what they believe is wrong with AA, a program they are not involved with and have little knowledge of, often gleaned from a few meetings when they were at their sickest and their perceptions were most off.

I have no interest in their observations, and am never sure what motivates their common and semi-constant interest in AA, but they sure bring it up a lot. Just gets to be very weird. I've no interest in educating them on their misconceptions and rarely set them straight.

You'd think they'd be busy with their own path and worry less about how others stay sober.

And the last thing I want is for any of them to come around AA too soon. Far better they spend some years in the other programs and trying what there is out there to try. We'll see some down the road at the right time for them to listen, and some we won't.

So, I sure support people on other paths and hope they stay there. Before the alternative programs were available, everyone crowded themselves into AA when it was often an obviously bad fit. Better that now people can pursue other avenues than AA that often have far greater tolerance for side issues relating to all the different things that people want to try using to suppliment their sobriety.

It's just good that alcoholics can spread out into all kinds of niches, and settle in on what may feel right to them. And for those who later on may find themselves forced by circumstance to get around to doing AA, it'll be there.

I don't think there's ever been a better time for people to start the process of trying different things to get and stay sober. Such a variety out there.

kiki5711

“In all probability, we shall never
be able to touch more than a fair
fraction of the alcohol problem in
all its ramifications. Upon therapy
for the alcoholic himself, we surely
have no monopoly.” (Alcoholics
Anonymous, 1955, p. ix)

• “In no circumstances should
members feel that Alcoholics
Anonymous is the know- all and
do-all of alcoholism.” (Wilson,
1965/1988, p. 332)

• “Then, too, it would be a product
of false pride to believe that
Alcoholics Anonymous is a
cure-all, even for alcoholism.”
(Wilson, 1963/1988, p. 346)

• “It is an historical fact that
practically all groupings of men
and women tend to become
more dogmatic; their beliefs and
practices harden and sometimes
freeze. This is a natural and almost
inevitable process.... But dogma
also has its liabilities. Simply
because we have convictions that
work well for us, it becomes very
easy to assume that we have all
the truth.... This isn’t good dogma;
it’s very bad dogma. It could be
especially destructive for us of AA
to indulge in this sort of thing.”
(Wilson, 1965/1988, p. 333)

The paper concludes: “This short
essay has used excerpts from the
writings of Bill Wilson to illustrate AA’s
understanding of its own limitations,
recognition of diverse recovery experi-
ence within AA, tolerance toward
alternative pathways and styles of
recovery, openness to collaborate with
service professionals and scientists in the
alcoholism field, and Wilson’s personal
hope that AA would remain an open,
evolving society forever focused on
service to and recovery for the still
suffering alcoholic.”

I hope that when the history of
SMART Recovery® is written, there will
not be a need to collect quotations from
its early practitioners, to show that we
truly are tolerant and appreciative of the
multiple paths to recovery.

loveon2legs

Great post Bam...I feel that when I post sometimes especially if it pertains to AA and the experiences I might have had....it's like wildfire!!!. I don't put down any form of recovery..if it works..great! sometimes I get the impression on here, that you have to edit how you feel about certain things...which it really shouldn't be.....but that's life! I know I'm doing good, and really at the end of the day that's all that really matters....

Fandy

Where is Bam????

Azreal

Let's face it, this is a site most of us come to for guidance and advice, especially from those who have more experience. If you don't like the advice, don't take it. Read over it and go to the next post or response. If it gets out of hand, PM a mod. That's what they are for.