Went to the Dr
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 395
Some alcoholics do stop. Some even stop without help. Some will stop long enough to get their act together, only to self-destructive later; rinse and repeat. Some enter into recovery and stop for years, if not decades.
I am no Dr., but in my humble experience, when an alcoholic drinks, a couple of things happen. We develop the phenomena of craving and we either:
1. Keeping feeding this craving with more booze.
2. If or when we stop, we become very uncomfortable since we have deal with this craving.
3. The outcome of our drinking is often unpredictable, but eventually negative consequences ensue, despite our best intentions.
Often times, alcoholics can drink with some success early on, but eventually we lose this power. We cannot drink with impunity. We can not drink without developing this phenomena of craving.
I am no Dr., but in my humble experience, when an alcoholic drinks, a couple of things happen. We develop the phenomena of craving and we either:
1. Keeping feeding this craving with more booze.
2. If or when we stop, we become very uncomfortable since we have deal with this craving.
3. The outcome of our drinking is often unpredictable, but eventually negative consequences ensue, despite our best intentions.
Often times, alcoholics can drink with some success early on, but eventually we lose this power. We cannot drink with impunity. We can not drink without developing this phenomena of craving.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 581
Originally Posted by Supercrew 
Jay, I am curious for my own personal insight. Although you used the AA program to quit drinking, you quit drinking without someone locking you up or hold you down and not letting you drink I assume. Obviously the program and the 12 step method helped you, but if you stopped under your own free will, did you not? I don't understand how you can not take some credit for the fact and admit that it was ultimately "willpower", and a great support network and the 12 step program that helped you become sober.
If I am off base let me know, because I consider that in my sobriety it was willpower ultimately, along with the support here at SR and my own wellness program that I put together that helped me quit, and allows me to be happy daily and not obsess about the booze and it keeps me sober.
What am I missing?
If I am off base let me know, because I consider that in my sobriety it was willpower ultimately, along with the support here at SR and my own wellness program that I put together that helped me quit, and allows me to be happy daily and not obsess about the booze and it keeps me sober.
What am I missing?
It wasn't that willpower was succeeding for a period of time and then failing-- it was that insanity was succeeding in prohibiting me from distinguishing the true (powerlessness) from the false (I could stop if I tried harder).
The 12 step program is designed not to help you quit drinking, but to connect you with a power greater than yourself that can solve your problem for you.
I didn't expand the self-- I reduced it and crushed it with inventory and amends. This allows a power greater than myself (which I am hesitant to call God because it feels so unlike the God I understood as a child) to fill in, to restore me to sanity. It's not about feeling sanctified, it's about feeling relieved of the maddening compulsion and clear about my powerlessness in a way I never was before.
So the only thing I get credit for is assembling the compelling evidence that my self will failed, utterly and completely, over and over again.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal CA
Posts: 1,319
Originally Posted by FrothyJay
Every time I tried to stop drinking I returned to it- sometimes after 10 minutes, sometimes 10 days, once even 10 years. I had a mental obsession that willpower ultimately could not overcome.
It wasn't that willpower was succeeding for a period of time and then failing-- it was that insanity was succeeding in prohibiting me from distinguishing the true (powerlessness) from the false (I could stop if I tried harder).
The 12 step program is designed not to help you quit drinking, but to connect you with a power greater than yourself that can solve your problem for you.
I didn't expand the self-- I reduced it and crushed it with inventory and amends. This allows a power greater than myself (which I am hesitant to call God because it feels so unlike the God I understood as a child) to fill in, to restore me to sanity. It's not about feeling sanctified, it's about feeling relieved of the maddening compulsion and clear about my powerlessness in a way I never was before.
So the only thing I get credit for is assembling the compelling evidence that my self will failed, utterly and completely, over and over again.
It wasn't that willpower was succeeding for a period of time and then failing-- it was that insanity was succeeding in prohibiting me from distinguishing the true (powerlessness) from the false (I could stop if I tried harder).
The 12 step program is designed not to help you quit drinking, but to connect you with a power greater than yourself that can solve your problem for you.
I didn't expand the self-- I reduced it and crushed it with inventory and amends. This allows a power greater than myself (which I am hesitant to call God because it feels so unlike the God I understood as a child) to fill in, to restore me to sanity. It's not about feeling sanctified, it's about feeling relieved of the maddening compulsion and clear about my powerlessness in a way I never was before.
So the only thing I get credit for is assembling the compelling evidence that my self will failed, utterly and completely, over and over again.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Sooner State
Posts: 1,725
Originally Posted by FrothyJay
I do agree that it's ultimately your call as to whether or not you are an alcoholic.
But according to the AA textbook, if you can quit based on willpower you are not an alcoholic. You don't have to agree with it, but that's essentially what it says. We are powerless and hopeless.
Now, I don't believe after 3 weeks you've proven much of anything. I stopped drinking for a decade and went back to it.
You develop your own experience, and draw your own conclusions. I'll re-state the criteria my sponsor uses:
- when you put it in you, does it say "give me more?"
- when you swear it off, do you drink again anyway?
-
But according to the AA textbook, if you can quit based on willpower you are not an alcoholic. You don't have to agree with it, but that's essentially what it says. We are powerless and hopeless.
Now, I don't believe after 3 weeks you've proven much of anything. I stopped drinking for a decade and went back to it.
You develop your own experience, and draw your own conclusions. I'll re-state the criteria my sponsor uses:
- when you put it in you, does it say "give me more?"
- when you swear it off, do you drink again anyway?
-
Thanks for this. To me 3 weeks is a huge deal. I used to plan my life around when I could drink. The last 3 weeks have been very liberating. I guess I dont need a label. I was just shocked that he said said that. To me saying Im an alcoholic indicates I have a problem. My lush brain essentialy heard the Dr saying "you dont have a problem" I thought about picking up some wine afterward (you know since Im not alcoholic) But I didnt. I cant stand the thought of going back to how I used to be.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,058
3 weeks is something to be damn proud of and I also am glad that you listened to yourself and not someone else as to whether you have a problem or not.
I don't care what others want to define a person who lives and dies to drink but for me....yeah I fit the alchi script to a T.
Way to go and keep that head up. You are doing great!!
I don't care what others want to define a person who lives and dies to drink but for me....yeah I fit the alchi script to a T.
Way to go and keep that head up. You are doing great!!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: dayton, oh
Posts: 487
I had a shrink that told me I wasn't an alcoholic and prescribed valium to calm my nerves. Great! Now I was an alkie and a pill head.
The best thing about finally finding a good dr/therapist combo is being able to recognize the dangerous quacks from a mile away.
Great job on your sobriety!
SH
The best thing about finally finding a good dr/therapist combo is being able to recognize the dangerous quacks from a mile away.
Great job on your sobriety!
SH
part time member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,910
I have not been told I was an alcoholic or not. I really don't know the answer to that question. I only know that I was having a real problem that had to be dealt with. If the people around me don't think that I had a problem that is their business but I just can't drink.
Is the true alcoholic the one who dies of liver failure while drunk because they couldn't stop?
Is the true alcoholic the one who dies of liver failure while drunk because they couldn't stop?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Sooner State
Posts: 1,725
Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
Whew, I was worried you might actually listen to the doc and grab a drink. Glad you are trusting yourself instead. And 3 weeks is terrific. Really like your attitude—keep it up!
HAHA! Nope. I have thought about it but then I think back to wasted weekends and feeling overall crappy. I really think the Dr was trying to make me feel better about the situation, as crazy as that sounds. Either way ...this is day 23 and Im not about to turn back now!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 788
Chiming in here...No one thinks I am an alcoholic...but me. I failed the RW test...and am so thankful to be free of my shame and remorse with regard to drinking. I am proud to be a sober mom to my kids. And surprisingly...I am really happy.
Snarf Snarf
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: ATL
Posts: 835
I'm not a big fan of labels, as different people often prescribe different meanings to them. I don't really use the term "alcoholic" in everyday conversation, because my definition of that word could be greatly different from someone else's definition.
I'm kind of a smarta&*, so I probably would've said something to the doctor like, "Oh, an alcoholic can't just stop drinking? What, then, is the required amount of time that it takes one to come off alcohol in order for that person to be considered an alcoholic? 2 days? A week? 4 months in rehab?
My aunt was addicted to cigarettes for like 30 years or something. One day while driving down the road, she just decided she had had enough and threw her pack of cigarettes right out the car window. That was the day she quit smoking. No one's going to tell me she wasn't addicted to cigarettes; it's not like she smoked because it made her health so much better and gave her skin a glowing hue.
My decision to stop drinking came upon me immediately. It wasn't something I planned out; I didn't say "I'm going to stop drinking on X date." I had the Moment of Clarity, or Epiphany, or Divine Intervention, or whatever you want to call it. It was unexpected and instantaneous. And in that moment, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that my life would never be what I wanted it to be if I continued to drink alcohol. So I poured out the beer in my hand, went to 4 AA meetings that day, and registered and began posting to SR.com that night.
Haven't had a drink since.
And ask anyone who knows me; I'm definitely an alcoholic.
I'm kind of a smarta&*, so I probably would've said something to the doctor like, "Oh, an alcoholic can't just stop drinking? What, then, is the required amount of time that it takes one to come off alcohol in order for that person to be considered an alcoholic? 2 days? A week? 4 months in rehab?
My aunt was addicted to cigarettes for like 30 years or something. One day while driving down the road, she just decided she had had enough and threw her pack of cigarettes right out the car window. That was the day she quit smoking. No one's going to tell me she wasn't addicted to cigarettes; it's not like she smoked because it made her health so much better and gave her skin a glowing hue.
My decision to stop drinking came upon me immediately. It wasn't something I planned out; I didn't say "I'm going to stop drinking on X date." I had the Moment of Clarity, or Epiphany, or Divine Intervention, or whatever you want to call it. It was unexpected and instantaneous. And in that moment, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that my life would never be what I wanted it to be if I continued to drink alcohol. So I poured out the beer in my hand, went to 4 AA meetings that day, and registered and began posting to SR.com that night.
Haven't had a drink since.
And ask anyone who knows me; I'm definitely an alcoholic.
Snarf Snarf
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: ATL
Posts: 835
Originally Posted by OklaBH
HAHA! Nope. I have thought about it but then I think back to wasted weekends and feeling overall crappy. I really think the Dr was trying to make me feel better about the situation, as crazy as that sounds. Either way ...this is day 23 and Im not about to turn back now!
It also helps for me to see other people suffer from drinking too much the night before. I work in a bar/restaurant, so it's not rare that employees come in to work all kinds of hung over from the previous evening. I do delight somewhat in being all chipper and energetic and ready to work while seeing them hold their head in their hands and slug coffee like it's endangered or something.
But it kinda made me mad the other day. I woke up Monday morning feeling incredibly crappy: sore throat, sinuses all jacked up, body completely sore...obviously cold or flu symptoms.
I was supposed to work a double, and I asked one of my friends on the morning shift to also pick up my night shift. His reply was, "Man, I feel like crap. I drank way too much and got too high last night watching the Super Bowl." And he proceeded to sit at the bar and do absolutely nothing to get the restaurant ready, while I in my sickness did all kinds of stuff. I was a little peeved at that; here I am all sick and stuff, and I have to pull my weight PLUS yours because you got too wasted?
Then again, I was promoted to manager last week, and also now get to do the schedule, so I decide when I work and when I don't. So I guess I end up winning in this situation.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,058
I am with you Ghost on that. I remember admitting my drinking problem to a Dr. in the ER some years back and I was quite candid. I remember him telling me it was stress related and I should try not to drink so much. With that he handed me a 30 pill bottle of Xanax for my anxiety but not one mention of obtaining any help for drinking.
Pisses me off as I look back on it but thankfully this site and other forms of support are out there to help us and encourage us. Probably why I don't dig on the label bit in life.
Pisses me off as I look back on it but thankfully this site and other forms of support are out there to help us and encourage us. Probably why I don't dig on the label bit in life.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: des moines ia
Posts: 362
Okla, So glad to hear you kept your head!!! didn't have time the last few days to chime back in. Just to clarify, Early in my sobriety I questioned weather or not I was truly alcoholic. My sponser told me "OK, start drinking again, see what happens" That cold hard response scared the hell out me. I knew he was right and I stopped questioning it right there!!
What EVER your doing, it's working!! Keep it up and keep posting.
Ron
What EVER your doing, it's working!! Keep it up and keep posting.
Ron
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
OKla, what you said in your post yesterday morning is exactly the reason I had a negative feeling about what the doctor said. My opinion is that it is better not to get into "Am I not an alcoholic since I am apparently using willpower to stay away from it?" and "Is this willpower?" I think that just tempts people to lose confidence in themselves and then for some people their brain starts to debate and negotiate and maybe they drink again. (It also implies that people who call themselves alcoholics in recovery that quit "on their own" are clueless, when that is not the case.) This is why I think sometimes even a person in the most esteemed position can say really dumb things. A hundred doctors couldn't change the reality you faced in your relationship with alcohol; only you could. The doctor can excel at knowing what your blood pressure means and whether you need an operation; not define the relationship you had with alcohol. That's where I think a lot of the AA textbook stuff (not the book but the way people are applying it) gets into contradictions and dangerous timewasting. Yes, an alcoholic is powerless over alcohol, but the person who stops drinking owns the credit for doing it and needs to own it, and then keep going. If there is help along the way, so much the better. How someone KEEPS it that way is something each person has to learn on their own, and that may include AA or something else. Nice to read that you stuck to your guns.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 14
My father was an alcoholic (like his father) who quit when he was about 40, so it is possible to stop cold turkey. He lived to be 90, was around other drinkers (had to be as part of his job) and yet he never took another drink, but I have to say he had more willpower than any person I ever met: example - he also quit smoking when I was about seven, and he did so by simply stopping one day - never smoked again. My mother tried to quit for years, and the only way she ever could stop was when she had to - she got COPD and went on oxygen, so smoking was impossible because of the fire risk.
I got my dad's alcoholic gene, but I've got about 50% of my father's willpower. I quit drinking last Oct 19th after a particularly bad day on which it was pure luck that I didn't wreck my car and lose my job. I was sober for 15 days, but then gave in to the cravings and am drinking again. I will say that it's fewer drinks on a daily basis than before, but I've seen this movie before and it doesn't end well. Yesterday I wanted a third beer bad, but I stopped, so that is a small victory. My goal today is no alcohol.
I got my dad's alcoholic gene, but I've got about 50% of my father's willpower. I quit drinking last Oct 19th after a particularly bad day on which it was pure luck that I didn't wreck my car and lose my job. I was sober for 15 days, but then gave in to the cravings and am drinking again. I will say that it's fewer drinks on a daily basis than before, but I've seen this movie before and it doesn't end well. Yesterday I wanted a third beer bad, but I stopped, so that is a small victory. My goal today is no alcohol.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Sooner State
Posts: 1,725
Originally Posted by Ranger83
My father was an alcoholic (like his father) who quit when he was about 40, so it is possible to stop cold turkey. He lived to be 90, was around other drinkers (had to be as part of his job) and yet he never took another drink, but I have to say he had more willpower than any person I ever met: example - he also quit smoking when I was about seven, and he did so by simply stopping one day - never smoked again. My mother tried to quit for years, and the only way she ever could stop was when she had to - she got COPD and went on oxygen, so smoking was impossible because of the fire risk.
I got my dad's alcoholic gene, but I've got about 50% of my father's willpower. I quit drinking last Oct 19th after a particularly bad day on which it was pure luck that I didn't wreck my car and lose my job. I was sober for 15 days, but then gave in to the cravings and am drinking again. I will say that it's fewer drinks on a daily basis than before, but I've seen this movie before and it doesn't end well. Yesterday I wanted a third beer bad, but I stopped, so that is a small victory. My goal today is no alcohol.
I got my dad's alcoholic gene, but I've got about 50% of my father's willpower. I quit drinking last Oct 19th after a particularly bad day on which it was pure luck that I didn't wreck my car and lose my job. I was sober for 15 days, but then gave in to the cravings and am drinking again. I will say that it's fewer drinks on a daily basis than before, but I've seen this movie before and it doesn't end well. Yesterday I wanted a third beer bad, but I stopped, so that is a small victory. My goal today is no alcohol.
Im glad you are doing better. I have thoroughly enjoyed not being sick in the mornings and not embarrassed to talk to people for fear of what i may have said/texted/emailed when I was drinking. I was shocked when my dr said that. After we spoke I fully expected him to say "you're an alcoholic get in a program" However he did suggest counceling. He says there is a "void" I am trying to fill. Well....arent we all in some way?
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
