Aa
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Well Blade, AA has been around for 75 years and there are scores of people who have sworn by it. There are millions of people in the program who tried everything you suggested and found self-reliance didn't work for the real alcoholic.
You are, of course welcome to your own opinion and I hope your methods to obtain sobriety are successful for you.
You are, of course welcome to your own opinion and I hope your methods to obtain sobriety are successful for you.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
If you believe you are making a choice to drink those 12 tall boys and that you have the power of choice.... Why don't you choose not to? Seriously... Honest question. Maybe some one who has that power of choice can help you out. But, most people at this site, as well as those who operate it, believe that complete abstinence is the solution to our problems with alcohol....
Welcome to SR
Welcome to SR
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,576
Hi bladerunner2014
Welcome to SR.
Just so we're clear....
Sober Recovery is a forum for those recovering from alcohol and substance abuse addictions, and those family and friends whose lives have been affected by someone else's addiction. Although we care about everyone and all the issues our members struggle with, some topics can cause damage to those who are trying to recover here on our forums.
As such, it is inappropriate, and against our rules, to promote the use of alcohol or drugs on our addiction recovery forums.
I don't believe you would be here if you felt totally OK with your drinking, Bladerunner.
If you really do feel ok, then maybe you might be in the wrong place.
but...if you don't feel ok with what you're doing, I know there's lots of folks here who really do want to help
D
Welcome to SR.
Just so we're clear....
Sober Recovery is a forum for those recovering from alcohol and substance abuse addictions, and those family and friends whose lives have been affected by someone else's addiction. Although we care about everyone and all the issues our members struggle with, some topics can cause damage to those who are trying to recover here on our forums.
As such, it is inappropriate, and against our rules, to promote the use of alcohol or drugs on our addiction recovery forums.
I don't believe you would be here if you felt totally OK with your drinking, Bladerunner.
If you really do feel ok, then maybe you might be in the wrong place.
but...if you don't feel ok with what you're doing, I know there's lots of folks here who really do want to help
D
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hicktown, PA
Posts: 1,479
...but WHY is the question...do we all drink in excess for the same reasons, and if so, WHY? It is certainly not an addiction...alcohol is not crack! People do not sell their furniture for it! It blends into our life
And lots of us are in such bad shape physically, mentally and spiritually, we don't have the luxury of time to figure out "why" first. We gotta stop drinking, and then the why will start to matter.
If you don't like AA, don't go. If you don't want to rely on a higher power, don't. If you want to be sober, stick around. There's lots of people here, with lots of different roads to recovery if you want to hear about them.
Jomey
Blu**ed Lines...A ClockWork SR
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,529
Physical and psychological addiction are real. Quit your 12 a day and tell me they are not. We do have free will, but addiction compromises an individual's ability to exercise it. Some people do need help to overcome/ establish healthier habbits. Thanks for throwing yourself out there and hope it came from a place within that was flame free in intent. Just a suggestion, but maybe your line of thinking is a little to black an white? Also; is it just me or does the orig post reek of some vague political, Ted Kazinskish agenda?
Last edited by ElegantlyWasted; 10-10-2010 at 05:15 PM. Reason: Typo
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
Blade, I am going to guess that you just haven't been hurt enough yet. That's why I didn't quit drinking when I started going to AA a few times several years ago. All the meandering of thought is not really going to get anywhere. You're correct when you point out that people need to look at why they are drinking, but that is not enough, because alcohol is stronger than people who can't stop drinking. Stopping drinking can allow a person to understand what has been going on for so long better than holding debates with oneself and others about the facts of life while still bowing to King Alcohol. I believe I have learned a lot. And FYI, I quit without going to AA and without wilfully believing in a God and was clueless as to how to begin to conjure in my mind what the higher power was; but I came to believe, as Johnny Cash said, in a power much stronger than I, after a few months went by. I don't know how or why, but I think it is just because I felt better and was ready to let go of the Big Questions, the philosophies of morality, etc that used to bother me, and which were a part of my initial solitary drink sessions.
You should realize that a lot of people suffered or are still suffering, and the voice of reason for this site is that addiction is what it is and that to run counter to that language is going to sound hostile. Your time to say you're ready to quit might be coming and you could change your mind about some of your outlook. Unless I am projecting, I think I can hear anxiety and resentfulness in you. You're not very different from many of us, in my opinion. And whether I'm right or not, I'll want the best for you.
You should realize that a lot of people suffered or are still suffering, and the voice of reason for this site is that addiction is what it is and that to run counter to that language is going to sound hostile. Your time to say you're ready to quit might be coming and you could change your mind about some of your outlook. Unless I am projecting, I think I can hear anxiety and resentfulness in you. You're not very different from many of us, in my opinion. And whether I'm right or not, I'll want the best for you.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by Rusty Zipper 
what comes to mind here,
The Yets!
The Yets!
I have not gotten a DUI YET
I have not been hospitalized YET
I have not gone to jail YET
I have not lost my family YET
I have not been homeless YET
I have not been Institutionalized YET
I have not died from this disease YET
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
When I come back to look at my earlier post, I'm not so sure I like everything I said.
The part about not using AA when I quit comes out a little awkwardly, for one thing. I was just explaining how my quitting happened factually. It doesn't mean I have qualms about AA as a method, and I am supportive of people that do. I just haven't gone at this point.
Otherwise there's a bit of a lecturing stance, I guess, and that was probably a natural reaction. I don't think there is nothing to be appreciated in what you said, Blade, as I tried to indicate.
In particular, I'm thinking of your remark in the original post about tapping into the power in oneself. I feel validity when I read that, because I have always disliked how it sounded like AA people were not giving themselves credit and it sounded like "God did it" and they were not laying claim to enough. I don't really think about that much lately, but your post brought back some memories.
I suppose I still believe in that more self-oriented theory, but it's not without my new outlook now. In other words, there's a spiritual side to my thinking now, and I don't invest any time disputing whether God was in action when I quit. It doesn't matter to me. I was ready to quit, maintained it and a peace and thankfulness came along that I hadn't been very familiar with in the past. No one enticed me or coerced me into following any particular approach, let alone what to believe in, and this site is the bulk of my support method outside of just living one day at a time. So to me that all added up to mean that my novice-like spirituality was a natural occurrence.
So if you are reading, Blade, I wouldn't say you SHOULD believe in God, but I am trying to explain how that has made things simpler for me. My disbelief was rooted in resentment from years ago. Not stupid thinking, but still a result of irrational thinking, emotions. Next to all that sensitivity inside was a sibling sensitivity that feels connected to something that seems to love me. And I don't know what else to call it. You can call it a strong conscience in me or a will to survive or anything else that makes sense to you.
But I recommend tapping into the innate thing inside you some more (and which you can name on your own) and seeing what else you can hear besides what you have said here, because that's the kind of thing that got me to quit drinking and it meant enough for me to keep it that way.
And something else you said sounded like you see AA people as though they're as enslaved as ever by their alcoholism. Other people have said similar things too. All depends, and that is not necessarily true even if someone is at a meeting every day of the week. For me, by having a recognition of my alcoholism in mind pretty much every day of the week, that is not being in a kind of bondage, it's quite the opposite. It was immediately freeing and continues to be! It's one of the guiding principles for me, because it is tied to so much of who I am and my thinking behavior (you yourself mention that alcoholism doesn't seem like it's all about alcohol at times). So I would think people in AA would say similar things about how it guides them.
The part about not using AA when I quit comes out a little awkwardly, for one thing. I was just explaining how my quitting happened factually. It doesn't mean I have qualms about AA as a method, and I am supportive of people that do. I just haven't gone at this point.
Otherwise there's a bit of a lecturing stance, I guess, and that was probably a natural reaction. I don't think there is nothing to be appreciated in what you said, Blade, as I tried to indicate.
In particular, I'm thinking of your remark in the original post about tapping into the power in oneself. I feel validity when I read that, because I have always disliked how it sounded like AA people were not giving themselves credit and it sounded like "God did it" and they were not laying claim to enough. I don't really think about that much lately, but your post brought back some memories.
I suppose I still believe in that more self-oriented theory, but it's not without my new outlook now. In other words, there's a spiritual side to my thinking now, and I don't invest any time disputing whether God was in action when I quit. It doesn't matter to me. I was ready to quit, maintained it and a peace and thankfulness came along that I hadn't been very familiar with in the past. No one enticed me or coerced me into following any particular approach, let alone what to believe in, and this site is the bulk of my support method outside of just living one day at a time. So to me that all added up to mean that my novice-like spirituality was a natural occurrence.
So if you are reading, Blade, I wouldn't say you SHOULD believe in God, but I am trying to explain how that has made things simpler for me. My disbelief was rooted in resentment from years ago. Not stupid thinking, but still a result of irrational thinking, emotions. Next to all that sensitivity inside was a sibling sensitivity that feels connected to something that seems to love me. And I don't know what else to call it. You can call it a strong conscience in me or a will to survive or anything else that makes sense to you.
But I recommend tapping into the innate thing inside you some more (and which you can name on your own) and seeing what else you can hear besides what you have said here, because that's the kind of thing that got me to quit drinking and it meant enough for me to keep it that way.
And something else you said sounded like you see AA people as though they're as enslaved as ever by their alcoholism. Other people have said similar things too. All depends, and that is not necessarily true even if someone is at a meeting every day of the week. For me, by having a recognition of my alcoholism in mind pretty much every day of the week, that is not being in a kind of bondage, it's quite the opposite. It was immediately freeing and continues to be! It's one of the guiding principles for me, because it is tied to so much of who I am and my thinking behavior (you yourself mention that alcoholism doesn't seem like it's all about alcohol at times). So I would think people in AA would say similar things about how it guides them.
No pity. No remorse. No fear
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 183
Welcome Bladerunner2014. By your posts you seem to look at things logically and you want to get at the reasons of WHY folks drink. You also stated drinking to excess is bad for your health and you spend 600 bucks a month on it. You even admit that the friend you accompanied to an AA meeting had destroyed her life by drinking two bottles of wine a day. You simply don't agree that it's an addiction. No problem. At least you have a starting point and you are here because you want to live longer.
We cannot give medical advice on these forums; but from your well-thought out and intelligently presented posts, perhaps seeing a psych with a specialisation in alcohol and substance counselling may be your next step. I am currently seeing one and she always prods me to get at the "whys" of my drinking, and if I do relapse, she's always getting me to reflect on what drove me to it etc. A very logical and scientific approach. So I hope that may give you an idea of where to start looking.
I will also add that I started with a psych in 2007, who got me to moderate my drinking initially. I kept failing that. But I did get dry for 10 months. Then went back to it in 2008, another dry period than went back to it again in 2009.
I am now on my 3rd alcohol psych in the 3 years since August 2007. My most recent one got me going to AA meetings as of last month. It was initially uncomfortable, but the more I listened, the more I "got it". I just sat there nodding, mentally ticking off boxes or silently telling myself "me too".
I consider myself reasonably educated and an intelligent human being, but the other thing I was, was an alcoholic. Not a homeless, jobless bum with poor personal hygeine. But a married, successful, working, home-owning alcoholic. I guess I'm just a slow learner because it took me 3 years to figure out what would really, finally get me to cease drinking. You just need to find your own path Bladerunner, no one can walk it for you, but you CAN learn from the decades of experience on these boards.
So whether or not you believe alcoholism or drinking to excess is a disease, a character defect, a genetic flaw or a choice; if you are serious about stopping (and wanting to live longer, or even just live better is a good start) then you're in the right place!
I sincerely wish you all the best for the future and hope you find what you're after.
Cheers and my apologies for the long-winded post.
We cannot give medical advice on these forums; but from your well-thought out and intelligently presented posts, perhaps seeing a psych with a specialisation in alcohol and substance counselling may be your next step. I am currently seeing one and she always prods me to get at the "whys" of my drinking, and if I do relapse, she's always getting me to reflect on what drove me to it etc. A very logical and scientific approach. So I hope that may give you an idea of where to start looking.
I will also add that I started with a psych in 2007, who got me to moderate my drinking initially. I kept failing that. But I did get dry for 10 months. Then went back to it in 2008, another dry period than went back to it again in 2009.
I am now on my 3rd alcohol psych in the 3 years since August 2007. My most recent one got me going to AA meetings as of last month. It was initially uncomfortable, but the more I listened, the more I "got it". I just sat there nodding, mentally ticking off boxes or silently telling myself "me too".
I consider myself reasonably educated and an intelligent human being, but the other thing I was, was an alcoholic. Not a homeless, jobless bum with poor personal hygeine. But a married, successful, working, home-owning alcoholic. I guess I'm just a slow learner because it took me 3 years to figure out what would really, finally get me to cease drinking. You just need to find your own path Bladerunner, no one can walk it for you, but you CAN learn from the decades of experience on these boards.
So whether or not you believe alcoholism or drinking to excess is a disease, a character defect, a genetic flaw or a choice; if you are serious about stopping (and wanting to live longer, or even just live better is a good start) then you're in the right place!
I sincerely wish you all the best for the future and hope you find what you're after.
Cheers and my apologies for the long-winded post.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: DE
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by Boleo
I have not been fired YET
I have not gotten a DUI YET
I have not been hospitalized YET
I have not gone to jail YET
I have not lost my family YET
I have not been homeless YET
I have not been Institutionalized YET
I have not died from this disease YET
I have not gotten a DUI YET
I have not been hospitalized YET
I have not gone to jail YET
I have not lost my family YET
I have not been homeless YET
I have not been Institutionalized YET
I have not died from this disease YET
I have not gotten a DUI YET - I have...
I have not been hospitalized YET - I have...
I have not gone to jail YET - I have Not YET....
I have not lost my family YET - I have...
I have not been homeless YET - I have Not YET....
I have not been Institutionalized YET - I have Not YET... close though
I have not died from this disease YET - I have Not YET... close though
My drinking carrer has been almost 25 years, always able to function at a high lelel until the last 3 to 5 years. Sooner or later, the disease WILL turn on you.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,058
Welcome to SR. We are here for support if you are looking to stop drinking.
I like many of this community came here looking to get sober and we have done not only that but are living amazing lives in sobriety. We don't think about drinking and we no longer obsess.
Whatever your beliefs are.....I assume that the choice to quit doesn't seem to work. If you are able to stop drinking then you can work on the changes you want to make.
I know I very angry when I was struggling with trying to understand why I was drinking and why I couldn't seem to stop. It was much harder when I wasn't sober. I am guessing you had a Tall Boy at your side during your posting.
I wish you well and know that we are a community that provides support to those dealing with addictions. We are here but you need to make that choice.
I like many of this community came here looking to get sober and we have done not only that but are living amazing lives in sobriety. We don't think about drinking and we no longer obsess.
Whatever your beliefs are.....I assume that the choice to quit doesn't seem to work. If you are able to stop drinking then you can work on the changes you want to make.
I know I very angry when I was struggling with trying to understand why I was drinking and why I couldn't seem to stop. It was much harder when I wasn't sober. I am guessing you had a Tall Boy at your side during your posting.
I wish you well and know that we are a community that provides support to those dealing with addictions. We are here but you need to make that choice.
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