Avoidance
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 182
Avoidance
This is really out of character for me to post, but I am looking for points of view that I may not have considered. I am working on my own recovery through alanon groups, and I get that I can't concentrate on HIS recovery, but I also am unable to ignore the elephant in the room anymore....that nagging feeling that I just don't understand what happened after 25 years of marriage.
When my husband checked himself into rehab, everyone, including me was shocked. Until 21 days before when he went on his first (that I knew of) bender, he was a daily yet very controlled drinker. The 50's style, father knows best practice of two drinks before dinner. No blackouts, no dui's, no falling down, passing out, etc.
Not to say that the stinking thinking wasn't there. My husband was/is the most emotionally and verbally abusive man imaginable. Everything was my fault, he scapegoated me with our three children to the point where my only daughter hates me, and was an expert gaslighter. Slowly and insidiously every adult responsibility, parenting, bills, taxes, repairs fell upon my shoulders. But I loved him, so I hung in there. I joked to my friends that I was married to Peter Pan, but that in the last 10 years he shed his green tights and put on a bully suit.
Well, a year into my codependency recovery, I took a celebratory trip to Greece with two girlfriends. I think he was shocked, even though he took several hunting trips every year....I had never ventured out without him in tow. All during my trip (two glorious weeks) he would email how much he missed me, how life at home was horrid without me, etc. But when I got back, I was met with ice cold indifference. That's when the unexplained nights away from home started, always preceeded by something ridiculous that he picked on to start a fight so he could storm out. At first it was funny, because I wasn't fighting back. But then angry emails and threatening phone calls started to ensue and I was scared to death of him. He ran up thousands of dollars in credit card bills for dinners, flowers (not for me) and about $150/day at liquor stores. BUT no hotel bills. And since he has no friends I knew what that meant. After I turned off the credit cards, pursued a restraining order, and refused to let our son get in the car with him, he checked into rehab.
He told his counsellor there that he had discussed this with his work. His phone calls to me were very apologetic, saying it was all his fault and that he would fix it and make me proud. But when it was evident that his employer didn't even have a clue as to why he didn't show up, I let the treatment facility know that he was lying. And also outed him on several other lies. That was when he turned on me and took me off the "talk to" list. When he got out after two weeks he set himself up in an apartment and all but ignored the fact that my son and I exist. He has been in two a day AA meetings and an intensive outpatient program now for two months but I have been unable to get him to discuss what happenned, where we are, what he is thinking. Just nothing, except anger at me. He has told me that I hurt him and morally wounded him....that's it.
So the wife that took care of it all, is still taking care of it all. So my narcissist has constructed a world where he can create who he is with no ties to the past. He won't allow me to bring up the past, shows no remorse, does not stick to agreements regarding our son, is still scapegoating me to the kids, and even accidentally? pocket dialed me while on a date. He claims he is on step 6 of the program and is growing spiritually every day.
How can it be then, that the same hurtful behaviors that always were there are still running strong? Is it possible to fake your way through these programs? This is all so painful for me, but he seems to be very happy.
Can anyone give me some insight as to what is going on?
Thanks
When my husband checked himself into rehab, everyone, including me was shocked. Until 21 days before when he went on his first (that I knew of) bender, he was a daily yet very controlled drinker. The 50's style, father knows best practice of two drinks before dinner. No blackouts, no dui's, no falling down, passing out, etc.
Not to say that the stinking thinking wasn't there. My husband was/is the most emotionally and verbally abusive man imaginable. Everything was my fault, he scapegoated me with our three children to the point where my only daughter hates me, and was an expert gaslighter. Slowly and insidiously every adult responsibility, parenting, bills, taxes, repairs fell upon my shoulders. But I loved him, so I hung in there. I joked to my friends that I was married to Peter Pan, but that in the last 10 years he shed his green tights and put on a bully suit.
Well, a year into my codependency recovery, I took a celebratory trip to Greece with two girlfriends. I think he was shocked, even though he took several hunting trips every year....I had never ventured out without him in tow. All during my trip (two glorious weeks) he would email how much he missed me, how life at home was horrid without me, etc. But when I got back, I was met with ice cold indifference. That's when the unexplained nights away from home started, always preceeded by something ridiculous that he picked on to start a fight so he could storm out. At first it was funny, because I wasn't fighting back. But then angry emails and threatening phone calls started to ensue and I was scared to death of him. He ran up thousands of dollars in credit card bills for dinners, flowers (not for me) and about $150/day at liquor stores. BUT no hotel bills. And since he has no friends I knew what that meant. After I turned off the credit cards, pursued a restraining order, and refused to let our son get in the car with him, he checked into rehab.
He told his counsellor there that he had discussed this with his work. His phone calls to me were very apologetic, saying it was all his fault and that he would fix it and make me proud. But when it was evident that his employer didn't even have a clue as to why he didn't show up, I let the treatment facility know that he was lying. And also outed him on several other lies. That was when he turned on me and took me off the "talk to" list. When he got out after two weeks he set himself up in an apartment and all but ignored the fact that my son and I exist. He has been in two a day AA meetings and an intensive outpatient program now for two months but I have been unable to get him to discuss what happenned, where we are, what he is thinking. Just nothing, except anger at me. He has told me that I hurt him and morally wounded him....that's it.
So the wife that took care of it all, is still taking care of it all. So my narcissist has constructed a world where he can create who he is with no ties to the past. He won't allow me to bring up the past, shows no remorse, does not stick to agreements regarding our son, is still scapegoating me to the kids, and even accidentally? pocket dialed me while on a date. He claims he is on step 6 of the program and is growing spiritually every day.
How can it be then, that the same hurtful behaviors that always were there are still running strong? Is it possible to fake your way through these programs? This is all so painful for me, but he seems to be very happy.
Can anyone give me some insight as to what is going on?
Thanks
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Troy, Va.
Posts: 29
Well in my opinion, narcissism and alcoholism do not go hand in and and therefore cannot be treated the same way. He may be doing fine with the step program for his drinking but (someone who is currently divorcing a very narcissistic person) his narcissitic attitude needs to be addressed through therapy of a different kind. My soon to be ex is also an alcoholic narcissist but when he stops drinking for any period of time he is still an *******. None of this is your fault and you need to try and make sure that his personality doesn't change your childrens' personalities. Narcissism starts from childhood usually because of a narcissistic parent and right now my daughter is in therapy because she hates her father and is afraid to tell him. I worry every day that she will turn into the type of person he is and like him, everyone will despise her. I'm just speaking from experience. I hope you find a solution. Good luck.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Welcome to SR. You have really found a great site!!!!!
Come on over to our Friends and Familys Forum of Alcoholics:
Friends and Family of Substance Abusers - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
There is a lot of good ES&H over there to help YOU.
As to you AH. Well ........................................... to this alkie sounds like he is still into Denial and The Blame Game.
Only his ACTIONS over a long period of time will show whether he has actually found recovery, and that doesn't mean he has to be living with you while you "wait and see."
There is lots and lots of good ES&H over at the Friends and Familys. Follks who have been through what you are going through or are going through it.
I am glad you found SR, but sorry for the reasons yu had to.
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing as we do care very much.
Love and hugs,
Come on over to our Friends and Familys Forum of Alcoholics:
Friends and Family of Substance Abusers - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
There is a lot of good ES&H over there to help YOU.
As to you AH. Well ........................................... to this alkie sounds like he is still into Denial and The Blame Game.
Only his ACTIONS over a long period of time will show whether he has actually found recovery, and that doesn't mean he has to be living with you while you "wait and see."
There is lots and lots of good ES&H over at the Friends and Familys. Follks who have been through what you are going through or are going through it.
I am glad you found SR, but sorry for the reasons yu had to.
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing as we do care very much.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 88
Let me write this....kudos to you for going to Al-Anon meetings.
I wish my wife would go, but she thinks she is not co-dependent.
She only searches our house every day for bottles, wants to buy a breathalyzer so she can know if I drank or not, begs me to take Antabuse (which has killed people), and wants my sponsor's phone number so she can track my progress with my AA steps. Nah, she's not co-dependent at all.
As for your hubby, one can definitely fake a recovery program. I did for years. But know this for sure...now that he has attempted sobriety, he will never enjoy drinking like he once did. If he is still drinking, the shame and guilt will catch up to him and may drive into really working a recovery program (if he is currently not).
Also, you will know if he's trying when he makes his 9th step amendment with you. If he's really done a solid 4th & 5th step, then you will know.
One final point...I've worked steps 1-8 many times (never finished 9, but will this time). It's kinda tough to have step-6 as a stopping point. Steps 5-7 are commonly done at the same time and place (that's been my experience every time). Every sponsor is different, but that sentence in your opening note about him being at step-6 caught my attention.
Best of luck and again kudos for your own recovery.
/rhn
I wish my wife would go, but she thinks she is not co-dependent.
She only searches our house every day for bottles, wants to buy a breathalyzer so she can know if I drank or not, begs me to take Antabuse (which has killed people), and wants my sponsor's phone number so she can track my progress with my AA steps. Nah, she's not co-dependent at all.
As for your hubby, one can definitely fake a recovery program. I did for years. But know this for sure...now that he has attempted sobriety, he will never enjoy drinking like he once did. If he is still drinking, the shame and guilt will catch up to him and may drive into really working a recovery program (if he is currently not).
Also, you will know if he's trying when he makes his 9th step amendment with you. If he's really done a solid 4th & 5th step, then you will know.
One final point...I've worked steps 1-8 many times (never finished 9, but will this time). It's kinda tough to have step-6 as a stopping point. Steps 5-7 are commonly done at the same time and place (that's been my experience every time). Every sponsor is different, but that sentence in your opening note about him being at step-6 caught my attention.
Best of luck and again kudos for your own recovery.
/rhn
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 88
Let me write this....kudos to you for going to Al-Anon meetings.
I wish my wife would go, but she thinks she is not co-dependent.
She only searches our house every day for bottles, wants to buy a breathalyzer so she can know if I drank or not, begs me to take Antabuse (which has killed people), and wants my sponsor's phone number so she can track my progress with my AA steps. Nah, she's not co-dependent at all.
As for your hubby, one can definitely fake a recovery program. I did for years. But know this for sure...now that he has attempted sobriety, he will never enjoy drinking like he once did. If he is still drinking, the shame and guilt will catch up to him and may drive into really working a recovery program (if he is currently not).
Also, you will know if he's trying when he makes his 9th step amendment with you. If he's really done a solid 4th & 5th step, then you will know.
One final point...I've worked steps 1-8 many times (never finished 9, but will this time). It's kinda tough to have step-6 as a stopping point. Steps 5-7 are commonly done at the same time and place (that's been my experience every time). Every sponsor is different, but that sentence in your opening note about him being at step-6 caught my attention.
Best of luck and again kudos for your own recovery.
/rhn
I wish my wife would go, but she thinks she is not co-dependent.
She only searches our house every day for bottles, wants to buy a breathalyzer so she can know if I drank or not, begs me to take Antabuse (which has killed people), and wants my sponsor's phone number so she can track my progress with my AA steps. Nah, she's not co-dependent at all.
As for your hubby, one can definitely fake a recovery program. I did for years. But know this for sure...now that he has attempted sobriety, he will never enjoy drinking like he once did. If he is still drinking, the shame and guilt will catch up to him and may drive into really working a recovery program (if he is currently not).
Also, you will know if he's trying when he makes his 9th step amendment with you. If he's really done a solid 4th & 5th step, then you will know.
One final point...I've worked steps 1-8 many times (never finished 9, but will this time). It's kinda tough to have step-6 as a stopping point. Steps 5-7 are commonly done at the same time and place (that's been my experience every time). Every sponsor is different, but that sentence in your opening note about him being at step-6 caught my attention.
Best of luck and again kudos for your own recovery.
/rhn
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 182
Thanks everyone for your replies. It's good to hear things from your point of view. So many times in alanon I hear "work your program, not his." But, in reality, this is almost worse than death. I have experienced both, the death of a fiance (as well as many immediate family members, most recently my dad and brother) and the death of this marriage. I will tell you that in real death, nobody tells you it was your fault, that you are a useless controlling wench and that you are the root cause of their pain. But, like death, it takes a grieving process. Sometimes I feel like Alanon tells you to just stuff it and move on. Jeesh, it's been two months and I have spent 2/3 of my life with this man, the father of my children. I need to analyze this, turn it inside out and understand it, grieve it, Kubla Ross it, close it and then get on with my life. If I am still obsessing in 6 months, or a year, kick me in my hiney....but for now, grieving IS my recovery! So thanks for understanding and not saying the program jargon.
One note about your wife rhn... I saw a talk show once on putting a marriage back after infedelity. The guy (the affair was his) said "How much longer do I have to endure her mistrust?" And the host said, "How long did she endure your affair....until she is READY to give it up, until she is ready." With time, once she is sure your dependency is in check, her co will go away.
I can tell you this from a spouse's point of view. By the time the alcoholic seeks help, you are so fed up with his/her issues that you don't want his/her issues to take up any more space. I resented Alanon for a long time because it was still about me having to take my time to deal with his damn problem. It takes a long time before some people get that they are there for themselves. And, as with all programs, you have your lifers still focused on the problem after so many years and you think "Jeesh, do I still want to be at these damn meetings 20 years from now?"
So be gentle with her, it hasn't been easy for her. Building trust back into a relationship takes a long time.
Good Luck, you WILL do step 9 this time!...And maybe that's all she needs to open her heart to you again.
One note about your wife rhn... I saw a talk show once on putting a marriage back after infedelity. The guy (the affair was his) said "How much longer do I have to endure her mistrust?" And the host said, "How long did she endure your affair....until she is READY to give it up, until she is ready." With time, once she is sure your dependency is in check, her co will go away.
I can tell you this from a spouse's point of view. By the time the alcoholic seeks help, you are so fed up with his/her issues that you don't want his/her issues to take up any more space. I resented Alanon for a long time because it was still about me having to take my time to deal with his damn problem. It takes a long time before some people get that they are there for themselves. And, as with all programs, you have your lifers still focused on the problem after so many years and you think "Jeesh, do I still want to be at these damn meetings 20 years from now?"
So be gentle with her, it hasn't been easy for her. Building trust back into a relationship takes a long time.
Good Luck, you WILL do step 9 this time!...And maybe that's all she needs to open her heart to you again.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 88
FunnyOne --
Thanks so much for the great post. I under-appreciate what the spouse and kids go through living with an alcoholic. All I hear is how bad it is, but there's never any detail.
You see, the alcoholic (me, for sure) never thought I was doing harm to my family.
To me, I was simply choosing alcohol over another beverage, such as milk or orange juice. To my family, I was choosing alcohol over them. Even to this day, I have trouble understanding that, but I know they are right and I am wrong.
Thanks for the encouragement. Please keep posting. I'd even like reading more detail about what it's like to be married to an alcoholic. Feel free to send me a private message.
Thanks, rhn
Thanks so much for the great post. I under-appreciate what the spouse and kids go through living with an alcoholic. All I hear is how bad it is, but there's never any detail.
You see, the alcoholic (me, for sure) never thought I was doing harm to my family.
To me, I was simply choosing alcohol over another beverage, such as milk or orange juice. To my family, I was choosing alcohol over them. Even to this day, I have trouble understanding that, but I know they are right and I am wrong.
Thanks for the encouragement. Please keep posting. I'd even like reading more detail about what it's like to be married to an alcoholic. Feel free to send me a private message.
Thanks, rhn
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