Dr Phil won't answer me, so maybe you can help!
Bring Laughter Wherever You Go
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 357
Dr Phil won't answer me, so maybe you can help!
Seriously, I email the doc and asked him to explain this to me, but I haven't heard back from him yet, I'm sure he's busy.
So, I thought maybe you guys would like to give me your input.
Here's what I want to know.
I always hear...you have to forgive. Forgive others. Forgive yourself.
Sounds simple. But not for me. I don't understand how to forgive.
What is it that I am supposed to FEEL when forgiving.
I am a grudge holder. I harbour resentment after resentment. From the biggest things to the smallest and it's keeping me sick. I want freedom from all this resentment, and I want to learn how to stop accumulating it.
Thanks, Tay.
So, I thought maybe you guys would like to give me your input.
Here's what I want to know.
I always hear...you have to forgive. Forgive others. Forgive yourself.
Sounds simple. But not for me. I don't understand how to forgive.
What is it that I am supposed to FEEL when forgiving.
I am a grudge holder. I harbour resentment after resentment. From the biggest things to the smallest and it's keeping me sick. I want freedom from all this resentment, and I want to learn how to stop accumulating it.
Thanks, Tay.
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
What an interesting and relevent topic. Thanks for your post as I know it interests me and is something I have had to fight with in my sobriety. So here are my thoughts.
For me it is a feeling of peace with myself. It isn't about believing the other person was right for what they did. It is about my reaction to what they did and letting go of the hold that my hurt and resentment has on me.
So here is how I do it. Here is a prime example from my life and one I struggled for years with: My father molested myself and 3 other sisters. My mother finally asked me about it when I was 30 years old because my youngest sister got into some trouble and the subject got brought up. I was honest with my mother. I told her that I would support her decision if she chose to leave or chose to stay with him. At the time I said it I meant it. Ultimately she chose to stay with him and it is not something we have ever discussed since then. I went for many years feeling like she chose him over myself and my sisters. I had a lot of pain and resentment around it with my father let alone my mothers decision once she knew. What it finally took for it to stop eating me up inside was for me to take a look at my side of the street: what was my part in the whole thing? What did I do right? What did I do that may have harmed someone else around this issue? etc..... I answered these questions without blame, without letting myself say "yes, but...." I just answered looking at only my part of the resentment and hurt. Once I was able to do that I was able to let the resentment and hurt go. Does it come back up? Yes, it does at times and when it does I go back with pen and paper and start back on the question of "what was my part?" and shortly I am once again able to find peace with it. That does not mean I agree with what was done it just means I refuse to allow it to control my life any more.
This is just my take on the subject, others may feel it necessary to forgive the individual rather than looking at ourselves and coming to forgiveness from that perspective. Either way, find what works for you. Life is way to short to waste what we have with anger eating us up while others don't even know that we are angry or wouldn't acknowledge it if they did. I can not change others, I can only change how I react to others.
I always hear...you have to forgive. Forgive others. Forgive yourself.
Sounds simple. But not for me. I don't understand how to forgive.
What is it that I am supposed to FEEL when forgiving.
Sounds simple. But not for me. I don't understand how to forgive.
What is it that I am supposed to FEEL when forgiving.
I am a grudge holder. I harbour resentment after resentment. From the biggest things to the smallest and it's keeping me sick. I want freedom from all this resentment, and I want to learn how to stop accumulating it.
This is just my take on the subject, others may feel it necessary to forgive the individual rather than looking at ourselves and coming to forgiveness from that perspective. Either way, find what works for you. Life is way to short to waste what we have with anger eating us up while others don't even know that we are angry or wouldn't acknowledge it if they did. I can not change others, I can only change how I react to others.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 486
I heard this from someone in a meeting who has many years of sobriety.
He said that when a resentment pops up about someone, say a prayer for them.
:praying
You may not mean it at first, but repeat this every time you get a resentment and
sooner or later the resentment will go away.
See if that works, why give someone else that kind of power over you anyways.
He said that when a resentment pops up about someone, say a prayer for them.
:praying
You may not mean it at first, but repeat this every time you get a resentment and
sooner or later the resentment will go away.
See if that works, why give someone else that kind of power over you anyways.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,513
The thing is Tay, as long as you have those resentments, the person who caused them is still hurting you. I had a really hard time forgiving my mother and in fact, still have to do it again sometimes. But, the thought that, even though she is dead, I was still allowing her to continue to hurt me, and it was just ridiculous. You forgive for yourself and you can do it in small steps. I don't think it can always be done and over with at once. But each step helps.
*~10 YEARS BABY~*
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 9,369
Resentment to me, or holding grudges is like that saying,
You drink a glass of poison yourself and then wait for the
other person to get sick.
I've learned to let go of grudges, poisons, etc. because usually
when I have them, it is because the other person did not act
or behave the way I wanted them too.
If I am being hurt by this person, I probably have some part in it,
and I need to figure out what, so it's not only their fault.
Then I can let it go (usually).
People do what works for them, and what makes sense.
Too often we let ourself take personal what another person is
doing to make them feel better.
It has nothing to do with us how a person reacts.
I know even for me, I act different depending on how I am feeling.
Right now I feel hurt or upset by something going on, and I'm trying
to figure out how to deal with it, but in the mean time, I act a bit
tougher to everyone. The people who have nothing to do with one
situation are going to probably feel it.
Last week my Dad something to me that as mean, and it was upsetting,
so the next person who said something 'nice' to me, I somehow read
the wrong way and took it as being mean.
I lashed out at that person, and later couldn't believe what I had done.
That person could have held a grudge against me, been pissed off,
but luckily for me they let me explain.
But my bad judgement to 'them' had nothing to do with them, it was about me being hurt by my Dad and some other things going on.
Not sure if I am making sense, I do to myself, lol.
I have to try and remember often, or usually always what goes on is not about me.
That's how I let it go.
Maybe I still want to believe under the walls of everyone is a good person, anger, fear, and hurt make people react weird.
It's easier to let it go that way.
:ghug3
You drink a glass of poison yourself and then wait for the
other person to get sick.
I've learned to let go of grudges, poisons, etc. because usually
when I have them, it is because the other person did not act
or behave the way I wanted them too.
If I am being hurt by this person, I probably have some part in it,
and I need to figure out what, so it's not only their fault.
Then I can let it go (usually).
People do what works for them, and what makes sense.
Too often we let ourself take personal what another person is
doing to make them feel better.
It has nothing to do with us how a person reacts.
I know even for me, I act different depending on how I am feeling.
Right now I feel hurt or upset by something going on, and I'm trying
to figure out how to deal with it, but in the mean time, I act a bit
tougher to everyone. The people who have nothing to do with one
situation are going to probably feel it.
Last week my Dad something to me that as mean, and it was upsetting,
so the next person who said something 'nice' to me, I somehow read
the wrong way and took it as being mean.
I lashed out at that person, and later couldn't believe what I had done.
That person could have held a grudge against me, been pissed off,
but luckily for me they let me explain.
But my bad judgement to 'them' had nothing to do with them, it was about me being hurt by my Dad and some other things going on.
Not sure if I am making sense, I do to myself, lol.
I have to try and remember often, or usually always what goes on is not about me.
That's how I let it go.
Maybe I still want to believe under the walls of everyone is a good person, anger, fear, and hurt make people react weird.
It's easier to let it go that way.
:ghug3
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California coast
Posts: 415
I had a therapist tell me the words I had wanted to hear from the person who caused me great emotional pain.
But after that she helped me realize that this person was NEVER going to think about me and life the way I wanted her too (yup, my mom). And she was never going to talk to me the way I wanted her to talk to me.
I had to accept that I could not change her, and she was not going to change on her own. So I had to accept it. And that brought me some understanding and peace. Next my therapist helped me protect myself from her, and her painful words. She said it was up to me to protect myself, and put up a wall. And that was what I did. I still love her, and I still care about her, but I also understand she will never be to me what I needed from a parent.
I stopped letting that pain bring me down. And I stopped blaming her for all her faults. And I am able to forgive her for being who she is, and how she treats me. It is no longer my problem unless I let it. And I don't want it.
I think that writing down what makes you so angry is a great idea. And then understand your part. Now I don't think a child who has been molested "has a part". I think they have been victimized. But as adults we do have a part...even if we are seeing ourselves as the victim.
Anyway...this is some pretty painful stuff, and I would be very careful to not do it alone. A therapist, or a sponsor, or a close friend is your best bet to help you not drink or use over it.
But after that she helped me realize that this person was NEVER going to think about me and life the way I wanted her too (yup, my mom). And she was never going to talk to me the way I wanted her to talk to me.
I had to accept that I could not change her, and she was not going to change on her own. So I had to accept it. And that brought me some understanding and peace. Next my therapist helped me protect myself from her, and her painful words. She said it was up to me to protect myself, and put up a wall. And that was what I did. I still love her, and I still care about her, but I also understand she will never be to me what I needed from a parent.
I stopped letting that pain bring me down. And I stopped blaming her for all her faults. And I am able to forgive her for being who she is, and how she treats me. It is no longer my problem unless I let it. And I don't want it.
I think that writing down what makes you so angry is a great idea. And then understand your part. Now I don't think a child who has been molested "has a part". I think they have been victimized. But as adults we do have a part...even if we are seeing ourselves as the victim.
Anyway...this is some pretty painful stuff, and I would be very careful to not do it alone. A therapist, or a sponsor, or a close friend is your best bet to help you not drink or use over it.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
I don't know if you are a twelve stepper or not, but I will share my experience and something that was helpful to me (and very practical)- to FEEL forgiveness.
When I was asked at the fourth step to look at these people from a different angle I was told to do the following if I had trouble forgiving them in my heart.
Sit quiet, picture the person across from you in your mind. Now, picture them as a child, vulnerable - can you forgive that child?
There was a lot of work before getting to that point - but it worked miracles and resentment melted away long before I made any direct ammends to such people.
I hope you can find this useful (or anyone else for that matter)
~a
When I was asked at the fourth step to look at these people from a different angle I was told to do the following if I had trouble forgiving them in my heart.
Sit quiet, picture the person across from you in your mind. Now, picture them as a child, vulnerable - can you forgive that child?
There was a lot of work before getting to that point - but it worked miracles and resentment melted away long before I made any direct ammends to such people.
I hope you can find this useful (or anyone else for that matter)
~a
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Originally Posted by LogCabin 
.......Now I don't think a child who has been molested "has a part". I think they have been victimized. But as adults we do have a part...even if we are seeing ourselves as the victim......
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
Forgiveness is a gift. This is a story about Forgiveness out of "The Book Of Qualities" by:J. Ruth Gendler
FORGIVENESS-
Forgiveness is a strong woman,tender and earthy
and direct. Since her children have left home she
has embarked on an extended walking tour, visiting
ruins and old monuments, bathing in rivers and hot
springs, traveling through the small towns and large
pulsing cities, tracing the current of sorrow under
the stories she hears. Sometimes the city authori-
ties and officials don't want her within their gates. If
the people want her there enough, she always
manages to find a way inside.
Forgiveness brings gifts wherever she goes. Simple
ones, a three stranded twig with leaves turning
yellow, a belt she wove on an inkle loom, a little
song that grows inside you and changes everything.
She brought ma a silver ring from the South with a
pale stone, pink with a hint of brown. When I had
asthma she taught me how to breathe.
I have posted more poems out of The Book of Qualities in the "inspirations" forum here for those of you who would like to read some more of these writings go here:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...qualities.html
FORGIVENESS-
Forgiveness is a strong woman,tender and earthy
and direct. Since her children have left home she
has embarked on an extended walking tour, visiting
ruins and old monuments, bathing in rivers and hot
springs, traveling through the small towns and large
pulsing cities, tracing the current of sorrow under
the stories she hears. Sometimes the city authori-
ties and officials don't want her within their gates. If
the people want her there enough, she always
manages to find a way inside.
Forgiveness brings gifts wherever she goes. Simple
ones, a three stranded twig with leaves turning
yellow, a belt she wove on an inkle loom, a little
song that grows inside you and changes everything.
She brought ma a silver ring from the South with a
pale stone, pink with a hint of brown. When I had
asthma she taught me how to breathe.
I have posted more poems out of The Book of Qualities in the "inspirations" forum here for those of you who would like to read some more of these writings go here:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...qualities.html
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
thanks nandm and logcabin,
I feel better about this now. It's often hard to express. I have forgiven my father, which alot of people have a problem with....but I glad. It doesn't mean it was ok.
And my part was how I reacted to others in harmful ways based on what had happened to me. Boy they sure paid the price.
Therapy was critical for me, and having a sponsor who either is "good at this stuff" or stays the heck out of it. I began to look at this stuff in a more than passing way at the age of 29 and I think the forgiving part didn't happen till I was about 40 - 45. One of my sponsors once told me "you can't forgive someone if you haven't even admitted they did something wrong". That was the begining of a long journy
good luck!
I feel better about this now. It's often hard to express. I have forgiven my father, which alot of people have a problem with....but I glad. It doesn't mean it was ok.
And my part was how I reacted to others in harmful ways based on what had happened to me. Boy they sure paid the price.
Therapy was critical for me, and having a sponsor who either is "good at this stuff" or stays the heck out of it. I began to look at this stuff in a more than passing way at the age of 29 and I think the forgiving part didn't happen till I was about 40 - 45. One of my sponsors once told me "you can't forgive someone if you haven't even admitted they did something wrong". That was the begining of a long journy
good luck!
Bring Laughter Wherever You Go
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 357
Wow! Great, great input. I've got a lot to say about what everyone has said so far, but am pretty beat. Going to bed early.
Will be back tomorrow.
Thanks guys.
Tay.
Will be back tomorrow.
Thanks guys.
Tay.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,784
I put this link in another thread, but it bears repeating. Home is the International Forgiveness Institute, based in Wisconsin. Their site explains simply and clearly what forgiveness is and what it is not. I read a true story once about a woman whose daughter had been murdered. the murderer was sentenced to life in prison. The woman began to have health problems: headaches, backaches, etc. She eventually somehow came to wanting to meet her daughter's killer and know who this person was who had killed her child.
AFter meeting with this person she somehow found it within herself to forgive him. Not forget what had been done to her family, not absolving him of his crime, but forgiving this guy to rid her of the resentment and bitterness she'd been holding inside for years. She found that after she genuinely forgave this person her headaches and backaches and health troubles went away. It seems the resentment and feelings she'd been keeping inside were poisoning her. Literally. When she let go of those feelings she also let go of the poison.
I don't know if I could go that far. Not having had such a life shattering experience I don't know if I'm capable of such forgiveness. But do take a look at their site. It's very interesting and taught me a lot about forgiveness.
:ghug2
AFter meeting with this person she somehow found it within herself to forgive him. Not forget what had been done to her family, not absolving him of his crime, but forgiving this guy to rid her of the resentment and bitterness she'd been holding inside for years. She found that after she genuinely forgave this person her headaches and backaches and health troubles went away. It seems the resentment and feelings she'd been keeping inside were poisoning her. Literally. When she let go of those feelings she also let go of the poison.
I don't know if I could go that far. Not having had such a life shattering experience I don't know if I'm capable of such forgiveness. But do take a look at their site. It's very interesting and taught me a lot about forgiveness.
:ghug2
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Hey tay ---
least posted a link to a really good site.....I've got one for you too....but there is one caveat.....I don't know how religious you may be, or even if you ae religious, but I've found that even articles filled with 'God' or 'Jesus' or any other religious name can always be read for its information and inspiration, almost totally ignoring the religious implications.....
That being said, I really love this site.....it's christianity.com, and for the articles on forgiveness.....:
Forgiveness - Search - Christianity.com
I hope you find these helpful; I know I did.......... (o:
NoelleR
least posted a link to a really good site.....I've got one for you too....but there is one caveat.....I don't know how religious you may be, or even if you ae religious, but I've found that even articles filled with 'God' or 'Jesus' or any other religious name can always be read for its information and inspiration, almost totally ignoring the religious implications.....
That being said, I really love this site.....it's christianity.com, and for the articles on forgiveness.....:
Forgiveness - Search - Christianity.com
I hope you find these helpful; I know I did.......... (o:
NoelleR
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California
Posts: 111
When I've thought of forgiving in the past, I've thought of it in terms of humbling myself - sort of a "you win, I'm caving in" type of thing. But if you look at from a different angle, it's about taking back power. It's saying, "I win. You have no more power over me." I am woman, hear me roar dammit 
In my mind, there's no need to feel contrite or loving when forgiving - feel victorious, feel free!!!
In my mind, there's no need to feel contrite or loving when forgiving - feel victorious, feel free!!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 49 degrees north
Posts: 1,036
Forgiveness CAN be selfish. Get rid of the critters that are infesting our house.
Only in this case, instead of killing them and creating a mess, we catch 'em and put them outside of our house. Same result, no casualties.
Forgiveness is like peeing in navy blue pants. No one knows you're doing it, but you get a nice warm feeling all over.
warren
Only in this case, instead of killing them and creating a mess, we catch 'em and put them outside of our house. Same result, no casualties.
Forgiveness is like peeing in navy blue pants. No one knows you're doing it, but you get a nice warm feeling all over.
warren
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Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
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Well Warren you gave me a good chuckle, thanks.
This has been a great thread, filled with numerous ways to forgive, a lot more then Dr. Phil!!!
Like others I have found some things difficult to forgive others for, but using the methods here I have been able to at a minimum begin the process of forgiving.
Many times I try and put myself in their shoes and try and see why they did what they did, I look at me through their eyes, many times what they did to me was a result of something I did to them, if that is the case the forgiveness comes quickly and if possible it is followed by an amends. Sometimes it is due to other factors in their life that caused them to lash out in the world and I simply was in the wrong place at the wrong time, having been like that myself I find forgiveness for their actions. On occasion it is simply because they are or were ill, I have been there as well, acknowledging I have been in their shoes also I manage forgiveness.
We are not perfect, there are somethings that we may never be able to fully forgive someone for, but we need to let it go, for as someone else said already, resentments are like us taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.
I have heard others say and I have found it to be true, we need to work on making sure we do not allow people to live in our heads rent free, if we have a resentment against someone, the only person that resentment is hurting is us, many times I need to just let it go..... accept that it happened, it is over with, it can not be changed, why worry or hate over it?
This has been a great thread, filled with numerous ways to forgive, a lot more then Dr. Phil!!!
Like others I have found some things difficult to forgive others for, but using the methods here I have been able to at a minimum begin the process of forgiving.
Many times I try and put myself in their shoes and try and see why they did what they did, I look at me through their eyes, many times what they did to me was a result of something I did to them, if that is the case the forgiveness comes quickly and if possible it is followed by an amends. Sometimes it is due to other factors in their life that caused them to lash out in the world and I simply was in the wrong place at the wrong time, having been like that myself I find forgiveness for their actions. On occasion it is simply because they are or were ill, I have been there as well, acknowledging I have been in their shoes also I manage forgiveness.
We are not perfect, there are somethings that we may never be able to fully forgive someone for, but we need to let it go, for as someone else said already, resentments are like us taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.
I have heard others say and I have found it to be true, we need to work on making sure we do not allow people to live in our heads rent free, if we have a resentment against someone, the only person that resentment is hurting is us, many times I need to just let it go..... accept that it happened, it is over with, it can not be changed, why worry or hate over it?
Bring Laughter Wherever You Go
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 357
Barb; I love the quote you posted from 'the book of Barb' 
Thank you so much. Your simple comment has struck me and made quite a difference in how I view forgiving. I know it is going to help me.
As for all the other comments...WOW. So much good stuff. I appreciate everyone's effort in making a post here. All the comments/suggestions are great and well received.
Tay.
Thank you so much. Your simple comment has struck me and made quite a difference in how I view forgiving. I know it is going to help me.
As for all the other comments...WOW. So much good stuff. I appreciate everyone's effort in making a post here. All the comments/suggestions are great and well received.
Tay.
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