Who wrote the book???
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 66
Who wrote the book???
Last night my husband was reading to me over the phone from an AA book. I would sincerly like to know who in the hell wrote this thing? Obviously, it was NOT someone who has loved or lived with an alcoholic!
How are we supposed to forgive & basically forget all of the cruel things that have been said & done to us over the years so many times? My husband slept with several women & almost slept with several more throughout our 5 yr marriage, said mean things, embarrassed me, put me down, used me, accused me, hated me, lied to me & left me, only to tell me now that he loves me so very much & wants his family back!
How do you believe someone who's lied to you for 5 yrs? AA is a good thing, but to tell an alcoholic that they should easily be forgiven by the people they stomped on over & over again is something I can't understand. I can NEVER forget what was done to me! Ever! I feel like if I forgive him, it's like telling him that it was all ok which it obviously isn't!
Becky
How are we supposed to forgive & basically forget all of the cruel things that have been said & done to us over the years so many times? My husband slept with several women & almost slept with several more throughout our 5 yr marriage, said mean things, embarrassed me, put me down, used me, accused me, hated me, lied to me & left me, only to tell me now that he loves me so very much & wants his family back!
How do you believe someone who's lied to you for 5 yrs? AA is a good thing, but to tell an alcoholic that they should easily be forgiven by the people they stomped on over & over again is something I can't understand. I can NEVER forget what was done to me! Ever! I feel like if I forgive him, it's like telling him that it was all ok which it obviously isn't!
Becky
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,513
Hi,
I'm sorry for your pain.
Forgiveness is not something you do for someone else, it's something you do for yourself. It helps you to move on with your life, without the baggage of all the anger and bitterness. Forgiveness doesn't mean that you condone what someone did to you. It means you want a better life.
Have you tried Alanon? It might help you.
I'm sorry for your pain.
Forgiveness is not something you do for someone else, it's something you do for yourself. It helps you to move on with your life, without the baggage of all the anger and bitterness. Forgiveness doesn't mean that you condone what someone did to you. It means you want a better life.
Have you tried Alanon? It might help you.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: on the moon
Posts: 944
hi Becky.
usually i'd let the ladys answer this but as nobody else seems to have read your post yet i'll take the liberty to share my thoughts with you.
i understand you're mad at your husband. i guess that's understandable.
but he is a sick man. alcoholism is an illness. an allergy. what he did under the influence wasn't him, it was the drink - he's powerless over that. he can choose to have or not to have the first one, but the 2nd and 5th and 10th and 20th are not his choice.
the book was written by Bill and Doctor Bob, if i remember correctly. it's a very good book and even though i've been afflicted by the alcoholism dieases for years i didn't learn much about how it affected my chareter and my actions untill i read the book. get yourself a copy.
take care.
usually i'd let the ladys answer this but as nobody else seems to have read your post yet i'll take the liberty to share my thoughts with you.
i understand you're mad at your husband. i guess that's understandable.
but he is a sick man. alcoholism is an illness. an allergy. what he did under the influence wasn't him, it was the drink - he's powerless over that. he can choose to have or not to have the first one, but the 2nd and 5th and 10th and 20th are not his choice.
the book was written by Bill and Doctor Bob, if i remember correctly. it's a very good book and even though i've been afflicted by the alcoholism dieases for years i didn't learn much about how it affected my chareter and my actions untill i read the book. get yourself a copy.
take care.
FreeSpirit
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Inside My Spirit
Posts: 1,274
What you need to do is go to the relationship/family/friends/forum and there you could find out more, and relate more to the other members that are experiencing the same Pain, and you could Identified with them,like 51Anna said forgiving is not for him is for you to release your self from those Baggages we intend to carry, I know your **** of but holding resentments It's not going to make matters better, been and addict whether to alcohol or drugs is a disease. 
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Murrieta, Ca
Posts: 2,683
Hmmmm....
It sounds as if maybe he was doing what I did when I was still drinking. Picking out the parts of the book that I liked and taking them out of context. I distinctly remember hightlighting certain passages from the chapter to the wifes and sending them to my (now) Ex-wife. Such as:
".....Father was sick...."
"..You can see that he really does love you...."
"...Try not to condem your alcoholic husband...."
"..You should never be angry...."
"...You should never tell him what to do about his drinking...."
"...Do not set your heart on reforming your Husband...."
"...drop ther subject...."
My advice to you is to get a copy of the book and read it fr yourself. The Chapter "To Wives" laid the foundation for Al-anaon.
Also, you might want to head on over to teh Freinds and Family forum. There's a lot of woman over ther with practicing AND recovering alcoholic husbands.
It sounds as if maybe he was doing what I did when I was still drinking. Picking out the parts of the book that I liked and taking them out of context. I distinctly remember hightlighting certain passages from the chapter to the wifes and sending them to my (now) Ex-wife. Such as:
".....Father was sick...."
"..You can see that he really does love you...."
"...Try not to condem your alcoholic husband...."
"..You should never be angry...."
"...You should never tell him what to do about his drinking...."
"...Do not set your heart on reforming your Husband...."
"...drop ther subject...."
My advice to you is to get a copy of the book and read it fr yourself. The Chapter "To Wives" laid the foundation for Al-anaon.
Also, you might want to head on over to teh Freinds and Family forum. There's a lot of woman over ther with practicing AND recovering alcoholic husbands.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
Hi Becky. sorry for your trouble.
I'm not an AAer but to me recovery's about taking responsibility for my actions, not absolving them.
I'd agree with GP - sounds like your husbands picking out the bits he likes.
Anna made a great point about forgiveness.
I'd check out the Family and Friends forum too.
D
I'm not an AAer but to me recovery's about taking responsibility for my actions, not absolving them.
I'd agree with GP - sounds like your husbands picking out the bits he likes.
Anna made a great point about forgiveness.
I'd check out the Family and Friends forum too.
D
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hicktown, PA
Posts: 1,479
Hi Becky, I'm with everyone here..sorry for your pain. It sounds like you have been through alot. I think Anna is very wise...forgiveness can be a gift you give to yourself...I have had to forgive myself for a lot of the things I did while I was drinking, and it was not easy, just like forgiving your husband will not be easy (even if he would like to assert that it could be), but it will be worth it if you can do it. Alanon can help. Good luck!
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,784
Home That is the home of the International Forgiveness Institute. In it they explain that forgiving and forgetting are two different things, and that to forgive someone is not to absolve them of their actions. Forgiveness is for the forgiver, so that we aren't poisoned by resentment and bitterness.
I understand both sides of it, having most recently been the alcoholic myself, and years ago had an alcoholic/abusive bf.
Try the site. It really expains forgiveness.
I hope for the best for you.:ghug3
I understand both sides of it, having most recently been the alcoholic myself, and years ago had an alcoholic/abusive bf.
Try the site. It really expains forgiveness.
I hope for the best for you.:ghug3
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 266
You know what sometimes the addict just use that forgive just get out of what choices they made. He may have a disease but that should not be a reason not to take responsibility for their actions. Come on I am an addict and I know it was my choice not the deseases choice.
I have been forgiven with some of the people I hurt. But I never asked them to forget what I did I just asked them if they could see that now that I am in recovery could they think about forgiving me.
I have been forgiven with some of the people I hurt. But I never asked them to forget what I did I just asked them if they could see that now that I am in recovery could they think about forgiving me.
PADRE
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LONG BEACH
Posts: 9
Alcoholics Anonomous
About your question. It was written mainly from 1935-1939 by two of the main characters Bill & Bob. It was written to enlighten people whom suffer from alcoholism, not the people who suffer from them. Their is a chapter entitled To Wives and The family afterward. Thats probably not what he read anyway. The forgiveness part is on him or her the alcoholic. It is forgiving and forgetting all of our resentments that keep us separated from our family, friends and higher power. In order that we can once agian become whole people and recover. It's not his job or business to make you forgive him. Instead, he must make peace with himself before he becomes a whole person agian. What you do is up to you, just saying I'm sorry dosn't correct the past. We must resolve the past. We cannot change a thing. Then is gone, tomorrow hasn't gotten here yet, we must live in the present.
Padre'
Padre'
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: wherever my feet take me
Posts: 1,314
I dont condone anything your hubby did. As a person who has had there share of hurting people while in active addiction I can sicerely say we dont mean it.. I know that doesnt change the hurt you feel, but I can say from my experience that once "I came to" and really understood what I had done to the people I love, I fell into a deep state of pain as well. the only way I was able to lift myself from the despair i felt was to forgive myself. Even if the people I hurt still wont forgive me I had to forgive myself in order to move on.
Anna is right to forgive would be an act of kindness towards yourself, and it will help you move on. At the same time you should check out the family forum and maybe try an alanon meeeting.
You can never change the alcoholic, but you can change the way you deal with them and the way you let them effect you.
Good luck
Anna is right to forgive would be an act of kindness towards yourself, and it will help you move on. At the same time you should check out the family forum and maybe try an alanon meeeting.
You can never change the alcoholic, but you can change the way you deal with them and the way you let them effect you.
Good luck
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 486
Hi, I think the Big Book was written by alcoholics, namely Bill W the founder of AA, as a method of recovery for alcoholics. It shares hopes, thoughts and experiences in the belief that they are helping other alcoholics into recovery while maintaining their own sobriety.
The Big Book is not meant to justify our past behavior or excuse future alcoholic behavior and in fact if you read the 12 steps, you will see that. It sounds like your husband is chosing to ignore the spiritual side of the book and he is twisting the passages to justify his own actions.
When reading you must also keep in mind when the book was written. Society has changed since the 30's and 40's but the methodology of staying sober has not which again is the goal of the book.
My suggestion is not to take your husbands interpretation, as I think it is skewed, but to read it for yourself and come to your own conclusion. You also may want to look into who founded Al Anon which focuses on the spouses and loved ones, you might be surprised.
I hope that helps and again I am sorry to hear about what you are being put through, you do not deserve that!
The Big Book is not meant to justify our past behavior or excuse future alcoholic behavior and in fact if you read the 12 steps, you will see that. It sounds like your husband is chosing to ignore the spiritual side of the book and he is twisting the passages to justify his own actions.
When reading you must also keep in mind when the book was written. Society has changed since the 30's and 40's but the methodology of staying sober has not which again is the goal of the book.
My suggestion is not to take your husbands interpretation, as I think it is skewed, but to read it for yourself and come to your own conclusion. You also may want to look into who founded Al Anon which focuses on the spouses and loved ones, you might be surprised.
I hope that helps and again I am sorry to hear about what you are being put through, you do not deserve that!
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Confused757,
Not to be harsh but, why in the world would you give him the time to read to you out of the Big Book? In my opinion (and speaking from the perspective of a recovering alcoholic) all he was doing there was trying to get himself off the hook for hurting you and abusing your trust. That's what I meant when I wrote about boundaries. You have to protect yourself from his manipulations. Hang up on him if he wants to talk about anything other than money or the kids.
You have every right to be angry as heck. Just because the Big Book talks about alcoholics deserving forgivness doesn't mean your husband deserves it from you right now at this point. In my opinion, forgiveness is something that comes over time and with a lot of contemplation and education. It's not something I can just say I'm going to do and then, presto, it's done.
You're husband appears to be still deeply devoted to alcohol and lying and feeling sorry for himself. (Of course, I may be wrong about that but that's just what it sounds like to me.) You don't have to listen to a single word he has to say about you and what you should or should not do. All you need to do is take care of yourself and your children.
Taking care of yourself and your children is hard enough. Let your husband read the Big Book and hopefully he will find his way to sobriety. You might try Alanon, like others have said. And Alanon has it's own book.
I hope I don't sound harsh. My own husband has had a very, very hard time forgiving my behavior when I was a drunk. Well, basically, he hasn't forgiven me. And I'm sober now for over 70 days and working my program - and I never had any affairs or anything. And we live together and are trying to make it work. But if there's one thing that I think he could do differently (instead of finding a lot of fault with me and being suspicious of all my actions) is that he could educate himself and take responsiblity for his own behavior by going to Alanon and reading their book.
I am sorry that you are in pain. I really am. And I know you are confused and hurting. I hope my response didn't make anything worse. You deserve to be happy. And I pray your husband gets that proverbial bolt of lightening that helps him see more clearly what his life has become and how he is hurting the people he loves. Until he gets serious about his sobriety, I hope you can find a way to protect yourself from his manipulations.
Hang in there and take care of yourself.
Not to be harsh but, why in the world would you give him the time to read to you out of the Big Book? In my opinion (and speaking from the perspective of a recovering alcoholic) all he was doing there was trying to get himself off the hook for hurting you and abusing your trust. That's what I meant when I wrote about boundaries. You have to protect yourself from his manipulations. Hang up on him if he wants to talk about anything other than money or the kids.
You have every right to be angry as heck. Just because the Big Book talks about alcoholics deserving forgivness doesn't mean your husband deserves it from you right now at this point. In my opinion, forgiveness is something that comes over time and with a lot of contemplation and education. It's not something I can just say I'm going to do and then, presto, it's done.
You're husband appears to be still deeply devoted to alcohol and lying and feeling sorry for himself. (Of course, I may be wrong about that but that's just what it sounds like to me.) You don't have to listen to a single word he has to say about you and what you should or should not do. All you need to do is take care of yourself and your children.
Taking care of yourself and your children is hard enough. Let your husband read the Big Book and hopefully he will find his way to sobriety. You might try Alanon, like others have said. And Alanon has it's own book.
I hope I don't sound harsh. My own husband has had a very, very hard time forgiving my behavior when I was a drunk. Well, basically, he hasn't forgiven me. And I'm sober now for over 70 days and working my program - and I never had any affairs or anything. And we live together and are trying to make it work. But if there's one thing that I think he could do differently (instead of finding a lot of fault with me and being suspicious of all my actions) is that he could educate himself and take responsiblity for his own behavior by going to Alanon and reading their book.
I am sorry that you are in pain. I really am. And I know you are confused and hurting. I hope my response didn't make anything worse. You deserve to be happy. And I pray your husband gets that proverbial bolt of lightening that helps him see more clearly what his life has become and how he is hurting the people he loves. Until he gets serious about his sobriety, I hope you can find a way to protect yourself from his manipulations.
Hang in there and take care of yourself.
Helping Others, Helps Me
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 481
Best of luck to you. I can only agree with everyone else. However, I feel like you are my ex-gf speaking to me about forgetting. I am gunna break out my AA book and see what that chapter has to say....I take that back, I will listen to the audio file of it on my computer as I post on here.
All I can say is that I never drank to hurt anyone, but I did hurt people by my own actions. I was always faithful to my g/f prolly because I am too out of shape to pick up the women of my likings now. My ex is still beautiful. I always had a hard time with her saying she will never be able to forget the things I have lied to her about (always drinking), not calling her. And I would get mad and be like how can we move on with out relationship if you harbor all this stuff. But she simply said, I am not asking you to tell me what to do, I am telling you how I feel. That shut me up pretty quick...
All I can say is that I never drank to hurt anyone, but I did hurt people by my own actions. I was always faithful to my g/f prolly because I am too out of shape to pick up the women of my likings now. My ex is still beautiful. I always had a hard time with her saying she will never be able to forget the things I have lied to her about (always drinking), not calling her. And I would get mad and be like how can we move on with out relationship if you harbor all this stuff. But she simply said, I am not asking you to tell me what to do, I am telling you how I feel. That shut me up pretty quick...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by tennis71 
It sounds like your husband is chosing to ignore the spiritual side of the book and he is twisting the passages to justify his own actions.
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I will check out the family/friends forum. I just saw this one 1st & talking to former addicts is helping too so I can understand his side & where he's coming from. This is all very confusing & all the Al-Anon meetings here so far are falling on nights when I have to work.
Becky
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 66
He read a lot to me from that book. That part about forgiveness & not bringing up the past just struck a nerve with me. He said that me listening to him read that was supporting for him. That he always saw me calling him (over & over on nights he was out drinking) as nagging but that he now realizes that I did that because I cared. He sounds like he's learning some things, but like I've said before, I can't believe him. I can't trust him. I can't love him.
Becky
Becky
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Middletown, NY
Posts: 90
which
Hi Confused...
In your post you stated that your husband was reading out of "AN" AA book. I would think that he was probably reading out of the book Alcoholics Anonymous but I can't be sure.
Given what you wrote and some of the responses, it appears that your husband was using selected text as a weapon rather than a means of healing. He appeared to use the text out of context to excuse his behavior and to not take personal responsibility. Those actions are not those of a person in recovery. One of the messages in the book states that recovery is based upon rogorous honesty and if your husband is using the text as a means of getting over on you once again - he is in no way and nowhere near practicing any form of honesty no less being rigorously honest.
It is up to him to make amends but there is nothing that says you have to forgive or accept those amends. There is nothing that says you have to forget anything. On the other hand, if your husband is being truly humble in asking forgiveness and you believe in your heart that he is sincere, it is between you and a Power greater than yourself if you are led to forgive.
If what appears to be happening is what happened, your husband is in for a big surprise. His dishonesty and using a tool as a weapon rather than one that heals will turn around and bite him big time. Don't let him lay a guilt trip on you or try to beat you up or into submission by using words out of context and for the wrong reasons.
In your post you stated that your husband was reading out of "AN" AA book. I would think that he was probably reading out of the book Alcoholics Anonymous but I can't be sure.
Given what you wrote and some of the responses, it appears that your husband was using selected text as a weapon rather than a means of healing. He appeared to use the text out of context to excuse his behavior and to not take personal responsibility. Those actions are not those of a person in recovery. One of the messages in the book states that recovery is based upon rogorous honesty and if your husband is using the text as a means of getting over on you once again - he is in no way and nowhere near practicing any form of honesty no less being rigorously honest.
It is up to him to make amends but there is nothing that says you have to forgive or accept those amends. There is nothing that says you have to forget anything. On the other hand, if your husband is being truly humble in asking forgiveness and you believe in your heart that he is sincere, it is between you and a Power greater than yourself if you are led to forgive.
If what appears to be happening is what happened, your husband is in for a big surprise. His dishonesty and using a tool as a weapon rather than one that heals will turn around and bite him big time. Don't let him lay a guilt trip on you or try to beat you up or into submission by using words out of context and for the wrong reasons.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: my room in ct.
Posts: 58,110
757
i'm hear'n you!
we alky's can do a lot of damage!
as i did my 9th step, the one thats asked me to Make direct amends to such people, wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others...
for me, i have found out some of the wrongs could never be righted...
and i'm ok with that, i did my part to fix what i dd!
not who i was...
good wishes 757, it wasnt your fault, and its up to you to forgive, or not...
rz
i'm hear'n you!
we alky's can do a lot of damage!
as i did my 9th step, the one thats asked me to Make direct amends to such people, wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others...
for me, i have found out some of the wrongs could never be righted...
and i'm ok with that, i did my part to fix what i dd!
not who i was...
good wishes 757, it wasnt your fault, and its up to you to forgive, or not...
rz
Just a fool, swimming in love
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 164
Bill wrote that without Lois
The chapter "To Wives" was written by Bill without Lois' input. Mostly it describes how he wanted Lois to kiss his butt. You will never hear it read at an Alanon meeting.
The info about the different kinds of drunks is useful.
The info about the different kinds of drunks is useful.
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