Is it too late
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
Yeah, I hear you on the God thing. I often find myself wishing they'd REMOVE the word from all the literature, books, steps, etc, and simply use "Higher Power", because, after all, they take pains to point out it's a 'spiritual, not religious program', and I know I was put off for a long time so I figure others are as well. I think such pervasive use of the word God throughout AA probably kills more people than it saves. But ... then I think ... WHO THE F**K AM I? This program is 70 years old, it's saved countless millions of lives at this point. What, me, Mr. Alcoholic Dope Fiend Tweaker Guy knows BETTER than all these sober people? Changes to your thinking ...that's what being in the program does for (note: not TO, but FOR) you, though. And I'm pretty sure ... it's a good thing 
Now, I just always just make the substitution MENTALLY, even if it's not on the paper. You feel me? Once you finally reach a certain point (maybe you're not there yet...) your survival instinct will kick in, and you'll finally realize ... maybe I should just sit down, shut my mouth, and listen to what these people have to say. At a certain point. Hopefully before the jails, institutions and death part.
If it's any consolation to you, I've had ONE dui, back in 1991 the night before my college graduation and in my defense, if my date wasn't so freakin' hammered, I'd never even have gotten tested. I can honestly say, I've never been arrested for drunkenness, never been in a physical fight, never even woke up somewhere I hadn't planned on going to bed earlier in the night (unless ... ya know... I hooked me up some random barfly that night and stayed w/her...). I've probably thrown up from drinking about 6 times in my 25 year drinking career, probably half of those while hungover rather than drunk.
But such feats, my friend, are simply are result of what I would call GENETIC LUCK along with the phenomena of TOLERANCE, as are most of the 'highlights' of your drinking career you've mentioned. I personally have an 'off switch', as do many of us alcoholics. It may keep us largely out of serious harm's way each time we drink...but unfortunately, such a 'blessing' does other types of damage, esp. over time, as you are now guessing, it seems.
You, and I, are what might be described as addicted to the drug alcohol, which is in my book different than being a genetically programmed alcohoic. However, this may actually be a kind of curse, as it enables us to keep our disease hidden within the realm of 'socially acceptable' behavior (and hence, 'non-alcoholic') for far longer than the more traditional 'week-long full-blackout waking up with a black eye wallet-less dick-in-the-dirt 100 miles from home who is this broad God please tell me there's still at least ONE friggin beer left in her fridge" alcoholic can typically get away with.
To prove my point, I can say that I damn near stopped drinking once I discovered Oxycontin. This showed me that I wasn't a textbook 'alcoholic' in the truest sense of the word. I was and am, a drug addict, period.
My best advice, just ignore the God word. Are you going to let your aversion to it KILL YOU, my friend? I know that isn't my plan. It's all about going along to get along. My distaste for organized religion ain't worth dying for, I know that.
Now, I just always just make the substitution MENTALLY, even if it's not on the paper. You feel me? Once you finally reach a certain point (maybe you're not there yet...) your survival instinct will kick in, and you'll finally realize ... maybe I should just sit down, shut my mouth, and listen to what these people have to say. At a certain point. Hopefully before the jails, institutions and death part.
If it's any consolation to you, I've had ONE dui, back in 1991 the night before my college graduation and in my defense, if my date wasn't so freakin' hammered, I'd never even have gotten tested. I can honestly say, I've never been arrested for drunkenness, never been in a physical fight, never even woke up somewhere I hadn't planned on going to bed earlier in the night (unless ... ya know... I hooked me up some random barfly that night and stayed w/her...). I've probably thrown up from drinking about 6 times in my 25 year drinking career, probably half of those while hungover rather than drunk.
But such feats, my friend, are simply are result of what I would call GENETIC LUCK along with the phenomena of TOLERANCE, as are most of the 'highlights' of your drinking career you've mentioned. I personally have an 'off switch', as do many of us alcoholics. It may keep us largely out of serious harm's way each time we drink...but unfortunately, such a 'blessing' does other types of damage, esp. over time, as you are now guessing, it seems.
You, and I, are what might be described as addicted to the drug alcohol, which is in my book different than being a genetically programmed alcohoic. However, this may actually be a kind of curse, as it enables us to keep our disease hidden within the realm of 'socially acceptable' behavior (and hence, 'non-alcoholic') for far longer than the more traditional 'week-long full-blackout waking up with a black eye wallet-less dick-in-the-dirt 100 miles from home who is this broad God please tell me there's still at least ONE friggin beer left in her fridge" alcoholic can typically get away with.
To prove my point, I can say that I damn near stopped drinking once I discovered Oxycontin. This showed me that I wasn't a textbook 'alcoholic' in the truest sense of the word. I was and am, a drug addict, period.
My best advice, just ignore the God word. Are you going to let your aversion to it KILL YOU, my friend? I know that isn't my plan. It's all about going along to get along. My distaste for organized religion ain't worth dying for, I know that.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by bvaljalo 
Yeah, I hear you on the God thing. I often find myself wishing they'd REMOVE the word from all the literature, books, steps, etc, and simply use "Higher Power", because, after all, they take pains to point out it's a 'spiritual, not religious program', and I know I was put off for a long time so I figure others are as well. I think such pervasive use of the word God throughout AA probably kills more people than it saves. But ... then I think ... WHO THE F**K AM I? This program is 70 years old, it's saved countless millions of lives at this point. What, me, Mr. Alcoholic Dope Fiend Tweaker Guy knows BETTER than all these sober people? Changes to your thinking ...that's what being in the program does for (note: not TO, but FOR) you, though. And I'm pretty sure ... it's a good thing
Now, I just always just make the substitution MENTALLY, even if it's not on the paper. You feel me? Once you finally reach a certain point (maybe you're not there yet...) your survival instinct will kick in, and you'll finally realize ... maybe I should just sit down, shut my mouth, and listen to what these people have to say. At a certain point. Hopefully before the jails, institutions and death part.
If it's any consolation to you, I've had ONE dui, back in 1991 the night before my college graduation and in my defense, if my date wasn't so freakin' hammered, I'd never even have gotten tested. I can honestly say, I've never been arrested for drunkenness, never been in a physical fight, never even woke up somewhere I hadn't planned on going to bed earlier in the night (unless ... ya know... I hooked me up some random barfly that night and stayed w/her...). I've probably thrown up from drinking about 6 times in my 25 year drinking career, probably half of those while hungover rather than drunk.
But such feats, my friend, are simply are result of what I would call GENETIC LUCK along with the phenomena of TOLERANCE, as are most of the 'highlights' of your drinking career you've mentioned. I personally have an 'off switch', as do many of us alcoholics. It may keep us largely out of serious harm's way each time we drink...but unfortunately, such a 'blessing' does other types of damage, esp. over time, as you are now guessing, it seems.
You, and I, are what might be described as addicted to the drug alcohol, which is in my book different than being a genetically programmed alcohoic. However, this may actually be a kind of curse, as it enables us to keep our disease hidden within the realm of 'socially acceptable' behavior (and hence, 'non-alcoholic') for far longer than the more traditional 'week-long full-blackout waking up with a black eye wallet-less dick-in-the-dirt 100 miles from home who is this broad God please tell me there's still at least ONE friggin beer left in her fridge" alcoholic can typically get away with.
To prove my point, I can say that I damn near stopped drinking once I discovered Oxycontin. This showed me that I wasn't a textbook 'alcoholic' in the truest sense of the word. I was and am, a drug addict, period.
My best advice, just ignore the God word. Are you going to let your aversion to it KILL YOU, my friend? I know that isn't my plan. It's all about going along to get along. My distaste for organized religion ain't worth dying for, I know that.
Now, I just always just make the substitution MENTALLY, even if it's not on the paper. You feel me? Once you finally reach a certain point (maybe you're not there yet...) your survival instinct will kick in, and you'll finally realize ... maybe I should just sit down, shut my mouth, and listen to what these people have to say. At a certain point. Hopefully before the jails, institutions and death part.
If it's any consolation to you, I've had ONE dui, back in 1991 the night before my college graduation and in my defense, if my date wasn't so freakin' hammered, I'd never even have gotten tested. I can honestly say, I've never been arrested for drunkenness, never been in a physical fight, never even woke up somewhere I hadn't planned on going to bed earlier in the night (unless ... ya know... I hooked me up some random barfly that night and stayed w/her...). I've probably thrown up from drinking about 6 times in my 25 year drinking career, probably half of those while hungover rather than drunk.
But such feats, my friend, are simply are result of what I would call GENETIC LUCK along with the phenomena of TOLERANCE, as are most of the 'highlights' of your drinking career you've mentioned. I personally have an 'off switch', as do many of us alcoholics. It may keep us largely out of serious harm's way each time we drink...but unfortunately, such a 'blessing' does other types of damage, esp. over time, as you are now guessing, it seems.
You, and I, are what might be described as addicted to the drug alcohol, which is in my book different than being a genetically programmed alcohoic. However, this may actually be a kind of curse, as it enables us to keep our disease hidden within the realm of 'socially acceptable' behavior (and hence, 'non-alcoholic') for far longer than the more traditional 'week-long full-blackout waking up with a black eye wallet-less dick-in-the-dirt 100 miles from home who is this broad God please tell me there's still at least ONE friggin beer left in her fridge" alcoholic can typically get away with.
To prove my point, I can say that I damn near stopped drinking once I discovered Oxycontin. This showed me that I wasn't a textbook 'alcoholic' in the truest sense of the word. I was and am, a drug addict, period.
My best advice, just ignore the God word. Are you going to let your aversion to it KILL YOU, my friend? I know that isn't my plan. It's all about going along to get along. My distaste for organized religion ain't worth dying for, I know that.
I just got home. Read this. Thanks. I don't know where it will take me but you make me think.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
Couple more things, in hindsight. You started AA at 10, you should know what I gave you are no more than the most basic instructions you (should) hear at every meeting you ever go to, right?
Given this experience, you should know i's impossible to quit drinking/using FOR somebody else.
My humble recommendation is that you adopt an attitude along the lines of "I want to live to see my 12 year old grow up and I want to become a Grandpa and maybe even Great-Grandpa someday... rather than end up as just more roadkill along life's statistical superhighway"
Given your broad and vast understanding of AA, I'd imagine I'd not be telling you anything surprising by mentioning the process of 'differentiation' that the alcoholic mind subjects the would-be-sober-mind to during what we call the 'Not Just a River In Africa'-phase. Well, that's actually just what I personally call it, sorry
I mentioned this above in my first post, and I would gently and in a caring sort of way invite you to look at how your reply came out. I'm not saying this to embarrass or deprecate you in any way. The point is, nearly EVERYONE who steps foot in the rooms goes there with the initial premise that they're going in to prove to themselves and everyone else that they are NOT LIKE THESE PEOPLE. And the next thing they know, they've proven themselves absolutely correct. But not about what THEY think. No, they're NOT like these people, because the other people in the rooms actually GET IT, and our proverbial 'not really an alcoholic' DOES NOT.
So they go back out, do more damage to themselves and their loved ones, and (hopefully) they eventually come to realize that, small problem, there was one word missing at the end of that earlier statement. The reality was ... "Not Like These People ... YET"
NOBODY wants to believe he is different than his fellows when it comes to his drinking. NOBODY intends to become an alcohol addict. But ... reality-check: This is a progressive, not to mention oft-times terminal illness, you are dealing with here, 20years. That is why you went from a pint to a quart in very little time. You may not have ALL the most-classic symptoms, but trust me, your thought processes flash red to every single AA/NA member reading your posts. Not because 'we want you in our club' or anything, but because WE UNDERSTAND this disease after spending so much time in the rooms.
I recommend, again, coming and at least LEARNING what you can about the disease, and how it can be arrested. And try to muster up some honesty (mostly with yourself), some open-mindedness, and some willingness. With these, you will be well on your way!
Given this experience, you should know i's impossible to quit drinking/using FOR somebody else.
My humble recommendation is that you adopt an attitude along the lines of "I want to live to see my 12 year old grow up and I want to become a Grandpa and maybe even Great-Grandpa someday... rather than end up as just more roadkill along life's statistical superhighway"
Given your broad and vast understanding of AA, I'd imagine I'd not be telling you anything surprising by mentioning the process of 'differentiation' that the alcoholic mind subjects the would-be-sober-mind to during what we call the 'Not Just a River In Africa'-phase. Well, that's actually just what I personally call it, sorry
I mentioned this above in my first post, and I would gently and in a caring sort of way invite you to look at how your reply came out. I'm not saying this to embarrass or deprecate you in any way. The point is, nearly EVERYONE who steps foot in the rooms goes there with the initial premise that they're going in to prove to themselves and everyone else that they are NOT LIKE THESE PEOPLE. And the next thing they know, they've proven themselves absolutely correct. But not about what THEY think. No, they're NOT like these people, because the other people in the rooms actually GET IT, and our proverbial 'not really an alcoholic' DOES NOT.
So they go back out, do more damage to themselves and their loved ones, and (hopefully) they eventually come to realize that, small problem, there was one word missing at the end of that earlier statement. The reality was ... "Not Like These People ... YET"
NOBODY wants to believe he is different than his fellows when it comes to his drinking. NOBODY intends to become an alcohol addict. But ... reality-check: This is a progressive, not to mention oft-times terminal illness, you are dealing with here, 20years. That is why you went from a pint to a quart in very little time. You may not have ALL the most-classic symptoms, but trust me, your thought processes flash red to every single AA/NA member reading your posts. Not because 'we want you in our club' or anything, but because WE UNDERSTAND this disease after spending so much time in the rooms.
I recommend, again, coming and at least LEARNING what you can about the disease, and how it can be arrested. And try to muster up some honesty (mostly with yourself), some open-mindedness, and some willingness. With these, you will be well on your way!
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4
What damage HAVEN'T you done yet?
That is the question that you should be asking yourself. My drinking was so bad in February this year that I was 100% convinced that it would be the death of me, luckily my mother is a mental health nurse and told me something called Wet Brain Syndrome. She explained how it gets worse and it may get to the stage where you are lucky if you die. I thought very carefully about the consequences of having Wet brain syndrome and from that day until this a haven't touched a drop and never will. I didn't mind dying from alcoholism but wet brain is much worse.
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I know, about an hour after posting about how I didn't use alcohol as a crutch I realized that that's just not true. Although I may not have to be drunk all day and I can function without it when I have to, the truth is I don't have to function without it at night. The times I have tried to give up drinking I am awake for three days straight. So in that sense it is a crutch.
In every sense I know it is a crutch and I'm just rationalizing. :-(
In every sense I know it is a crutch and I'm just rationalizing. :-(
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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One more thing before I disappear back into the game-world that is STALKER - Shadow of Chernobyl (yes, I am a geek!).
I want to applaud you for not reacting negatively to my 'calling you on your ****', as my sponsor would say. Particularly in light of the fact that you've got a few under your belt, the fact that you're even still around here is a very promising sign indeed.
In the rooms of AA/NA, there is very little 'cross-talk', or, addressing other peoples comments/stories directly. You won't hear this kind of talk directed at you in the rooms. Much of what I've shared can be gleaned from reading the big book, though, and that's why I recommend it so highly.
My initial assessment of your thought-process (I'm literally gleeful that you found it so insightful ... for it shows that I, too, am learning, you see how that works?) was the kind of thing that a SPONSOR does for you. This kind of interaction works best at the one-on-one level anyways, soooo... hopefully, well ... You see what I'm trying to get across is ... a sponsor is pretty f**ing key.
I want to applaud you for not reacting negatively to my 'calling you on your ****', as my sponsor would say. Particularly in light of the fact that you've got a few under your belt, the fact that you're even still around here is a very promising sign indeed.
In the rooms of AA/NA, there is very little 'cross-talk', or, addressing other peoples comments/stories directly. You won't hear this kind of talk directed at you in the rooms. Much of what I've shared can be gleaned from reading the big book, though, and that's why I recommend it so highly.
My initial assessment of your thought-process (I'm literally gleeful that you found it so insightful ... for it shows that I, too, am learning, you see how that works?) was the kind of thing that a SPONSOR does for you. This kind of interaction works best at the one-on-one level anyways, soooo... hopefully, well ... You see what I'm trying to get across is ... a sponsor is pretty f**ing key.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by bvaljalo
One more thing before I disappear back into the game-world that is STALKER - Shadow of Chernobyl (yes, I am a geek!).
I want to applaud you for not reacting negatively to my 'calling you on your ****', as my sponsor would say. Particularly in light of the fact that you've got a few under your belt, the fact that you're even still around here is a very promising sign indeed.
In the rooms of AA/NA, there is very little 'cross-talk', or, addressing other peoples comments/stories directly. You won't hear this kind of talk directed at you in the rooms. Much of what I've shared can be gleaned from reading the big book, though, and that's why I recommend it so highly.
My initial assessment of your thought-process (I'm literally gleeful that you found it so insightful ... for it shows that I, too, am learning, you see how that works?) was the kind of thing that a SPONSOR does for you. This kind of interaction works best at the one-on-one level anyways, soooo... hopefully, well ... You see what I'm trying to get across is ... a sponsor is pretty f**ing key.
I want to applaud you for not reacting negatively to my 'calling you on your ****', as my sponsor would say. Particularly in light of the fact that you've got a few under your belt, the fact that you're even still around here is a very promising sign indeed.
In the rooms of AA/NA, there is very little 'cross-talk', or, addressing other peoples comments/stories directly. You won't hear this kind of talk directed at you in the rooms. Much of what I've shared can be gleaned from reading the big book, though, and that's why I recommend it so highly.
My initial assessment of your thought-process (I'm literally gleeful that you found it so insightful ... for it shows that I, too, am learning, you see how that works?) was the kind of thing that a SPONSOR does for you. This kind of interaction works best at the one-on-one level anyways, soooo... hopefully, well ... You see what I'm trying to get across is ... a sponsor is pretty f**ing key.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
How It Works, The Description of the Alcoholic and the Chapter to the Agnostic are fairly key for someone in your shoes, as is Bill W's story and all the rest of the stories after page 164. Just to trim it down to something a little more manageable to start out with.
Personally I cannot possibly recommend a book more highly than Living Sober (and some of the very best stuff comes towards the end of that book, so keep reading my friend). It won't take you but maybe 4-5 hours to read the whole thing, and it's really practical advice for ... doing as the title suggests
Personally I cannot possibly recommend a book more highly than Living Sober (and some of the very best stuff comes towards the end of that book, so keep reading my friend). It won't take you but maybe 4-5 hours to read the whole thing, and it's really practical advice for ... doing as the title suggests
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