Finding a Sponsor...
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,061
Before the Big Book and the Steps were written, it was just a couple drunks staying sober by sharing their experience, strength, and hope. It worked then, and it still works to this day. Success rates for sobriety were much higher back then. It scares me to think how a newcomer could be turned off from finding a sponsor because that person hadn't finished their Steps. Myself, I looked for someone who practiced these principles in their daily affairs:
Surrender
Hope
Commitment
Honesty
Truth
Willingness
Humility
Reflection
Amendment
Vigilance
Attunement
Service
And no, they didn't have to practice them all every day.
Surrender
Hope
Commitment
Honesty
Truth
Willingness
Humility
Reflection
Amendment
Vigilance
Attunement
Service
And no, they didn't have to practice them all every day.
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,539
Do you not get how it sets a poor example? The easier softer way........AA lite.
The list you submitted are the steps. So, why would it not be a good suggestion that a sponsor have completed these steps.
The list you submitted are the steps. So, why would it not be a good suggestion that a sponsor have completed these steps.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Sponsorship Hey Y'all ----
Just wanted to put in my 2-cents worth....for what they're worth -- probably not two cents, that's for sure.... (o:
When I was a newcomer, it was suggested to me that I find a sponsor. So, I read the literature, went to lots and lots of meetings, and listened to lots and lots of women....what I found was a woman who's talk I loved; who's walk I loved; in fact, who's walk matched her talk.....wooooohooooo and I wanted what she had....had she worked the steps? I dunno....but she was working something, and it worked..... (o: (turns out tht she was working the steps, but that question wasn't on my mind back then)....I see that you see this as 'the easier, softer way,' or AA-lite.....but I got my sponsorship suggestions from the sponsorship pamphlet, and those with 20+ years....and this was 20+ years ago.....AA-lite it was NOT.....lol
I love this topic. Every time I see a thread on sponsorship it leads me back to my copy of the sponsorship pamphlet.....so here goes....(at least my copy from 1983 --- yes I'm one of those with 20+ years (20 years and pinch....lol)
I believe you stated, 1 day, that you were a newcomer....? Well, you're right that newcomers do look up to those with 20+ years for direction and leadership, but what I'm reading from you (and I could be wrong) is that you want validation of your suggestion from .... everyone .... and validation is something that neither '20+ persons' nor sponsors do.... (o:
I just got out my copy of the sponsorship pamphlet so, here are a couple of quotes from it.....good things to ponder WR....
from What Is Sponsorship? ---- "...Essentially, the process of sponsorship is this: An alcoholic who has made some progress in the recovery program shares that experience on a continuous, individual basis with another alcoholic who is attempting to attain or maintain sobriety through A.A."
From What should a newcomer expect from a sponsor? ---- "...A sponsor is simply a sober alcoholic ewho helps the newcomer solve one problem: how to stay sober."
From Can any member be a sponsor? ---- " There is no superior class or caste of sponsors in A.A. Any member can help the newcomer learn to cope with life without resorting to alcohol in any form. In modt instances, A.A. custom does suggest one limitation,...If the group is large enough to allow a choice, sponsor and newcomer should be of the same sex."
Well ---- these are just from the first few pages of the pamphlet, but it's a very good read for you WR, if you haven't already read it....or .... it's also a very good re-read..... (o:
NoelleR
DOS: 6/23/86
Just wanted to put in my 2-cents worth....for what they're worth -- probably not two cents, that's for sure.... (o:
When I was a newcomer, it was suggested to me that I find a sponsor. So, I read the literature, went to lots and lots of meetings, and listened to lots and lots of women....what I found was a woman who's talk I loved; who's walk I loved; in fact, who's walk matched her talk.....wooooohooooo and I wanted what she had....had she worked the steps? I dunno....but she was working something, and it worked..... (o: (turns out tht she was working the steps, but that question wasn't on my mind back then)....I see that you see this as 'the easier, softer way,' or AA-lite.....but I got my sponsorship suggestions from the sponsorship pamphlet, and those with 20+ years....and this was 20+ years ago.....AA-lite it was NOT.....lol
I love this topic. Every time I see a thread on sponsorship it leads me back to my copy of the sponsorship pamphlet.....so here goes....(at least my copy from 1983 --- yes I'm one of those with 20+ years (20 years and pinch....lol)
I believe you stated, 1 day, that you were a newcomer....? Well, you're right that newcomers do look up to those with 20+ years for direction and leadership, but what I'm reading from you (and I could be wrong) is that you want validation of your suggestion from .... everyone .... and validation is something that neither '20+ persons' nor sponsors do.... (o:
I just got out my copy of the sponsorship pamphlet so, here are a couple of quotes from it.....good things to ponder WR....
from What Is Sponsorship? ---- "...Essentially, the process of sponsorship is this: An alcoholic who has made some progress in the recovery program shares that experience on a continuous, individual basis with another alcoholic who is attempting to attain or maintain sobriety through A.A."
From What should a newcomer expect from a sponsor? ---- "...A sponsor is simply a sober alcoholic ewho helps the newcomer solve one problem: how to stay sober."
From Can any member be a sponsor? ---- " There is no superior class or caste of sponsors in A.A. Any member can help the newcomer learn to cope with life without resorting to alcohol in any form. In modt instances, A.A. custom does suggest one limitation,...If the group is large enough to allow a choice, sponsor and newcomer should be of the same sex."
Well ---- these are just from the first few pages of the pamphlet, but it's a very good read for you WR, if you haven't already read it....or .... it's also a very good re-read..... (o:
NoelleR
DOS: 6/23/86
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,061
I searched for the easier, softer way, but naturally did not find it. But that didn't send me back out, nor did not having a sponsor for my first 6 months of sobriety.
I actually "get it" perfectly, and I think it's a great suggestion, but not a necessity that I would've wanted rammed down my throat in early sobriety. There are no poor examples when someone is doing their best to thoroughly follow our path, and for Wharf Rat to ask for suggestions on finding a sponsor at 8 days makes him a winner IMO. Newcomers are the most important people in the program, sponsor or not.
I actually "get it" perfectly, and I think it's a great suggestion, but not a necessity that I would've wanted rammed down my throat in early sobriety. There are no poor examples when someone is doing their best to thoroughly follow our path, and for Wharf Rat to ask for suggestions on finding a sponsor at 8 days makes him a winner IMO. Newcomers are the most important people in the program, sponsor or not.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,061
Noelle, thank you so much for sharing that information. If it's OK with you I've printed that up to share with my best friend (of the female variety;-) in recovery. She's been criticized repeatedly for not actively seeking out sponsees, instead choosing to share with people when she has time in her busy schedule. Because of her, my spirituality has grown tremendously since we met.
It's always a pleasure to hear an "old-timer" share their experience, and in this case your level-headed wisdom is greatly appreciated.
It's always a pleasure to hear an "old-timer" share their experience, and in this case your level-headed wisdom is greatly appreciated.
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,539
Astro boy...........if you felt is was a great suggestion, it sure has not felt that way on my end.
I have never suggested the easier, softer way. Candidly, I want a sponsor who has the courage to speak the blunt truth. No pansy a$$ed puff & fluff.
That was ALL I said.
It is strongly suggested.
NOTHING MORE.
Along comes someone with over 2 decades of sobriety who I felt sarcastically asks where it states such in the literature?
"Hmmmmn...please tell me where that is written...in my 27 years of continued sobriety, I must have missed it in the literature".
Let me see, little humility, lots o' ego it feels like here.
Unnecessary at best. IMHO!
I have never suggested the easier, softer way. Candidly, I want a sponsor who has the courage to speak the blunt truth. No pansy a$$ed puff & fluff.
That was ALL I said.
It is strongly suggested.
NOTHING MORE.
Along comes someone with over 2 decades of sobriety who I felt sarcastically asks where it states such in the literature?
"Hmmmmn...please tell me where that is written...in my 27 years of continued sobriety, I must have missed it in the literature".
Let me see, little humility, lots o' ego it feels like here.
Unnecessary at best. IMHO!
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,061
Originally Posted by 1_day@_a_time
I have never suggested the easier, softer way. Candidly, I want a sponsor who has the courage to speak the blunt truth. No pansy a$$ed puff & fluff.
I only registered on this forum two weeks ago, and with only 21 months of sobriety I probably don't have any business debating with you or anyone else about sponsorship. I only know what worked, and continues to work for me personally. My apologies if I've offended.
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,539
When I walked into the rooms of AA in May of 2001, I had no idea what was to happen next.
I foolishly went to one meeting a week, did not read the Big Book, had no sponsor, thus did no step work.
While I have never taken another drink, I did continue to smoke dope daily.
I also foolishly, was under the impression it was OK to have a sober AND clean date..........pretty funny reflecting back.
The following year, I finally understood getting high was not working in my life any longer, and I was not sober. I took my last puff July 3rd, 2002 and re-set my sobriety date.
It was about this time, I started working with a sponsor.
Since I had put little into my sobriety, I got little in return.
I am of the AA school, that anyone with less than 5 yrs of sobriety is a newcomer, thus my comment.
I have learned so much, but only touched the surface.
Looking back, guess all I had hoped for when I posted my comment was acknowledgement it was a strong suggestion, not a frickin' debate from an "oldtimer".
I then went to the AA forum to see if I was the only one around here who felt this way.
MY BAD for entering into this nonsense.......my apologies.
I foolishly went to one meeting a week, did not read the Big Book, had no sponsor, thus did no step work.
While I have never taken another drink, I did continue to smoke dope daily.
I also foolishly, was under the impression it was OK to have a sober AND clean date..........pretty funny reflecting back.
The following year, I finally understood getting high was not working in my life any longer, and I was not sober. I took my last puff July 3rd, 2002 and re-set my sobriety date.
It was about this time, I started working with a sponsor.
Since I had put little into my sobriety, I got little in return.
I am of the AA school, that anyone with less than 5 yrs of sobriety is a newcomer, thus my comment.
I have learned so much, but only touched the surface.
Looking back, guess all I had hoped for when I posted my comment was acknowledgement it was a strong suggestion, not a frickin' debate from an "oldtimer".
I then went to the AA forum to see if I was the only one around here who felt this way.
MY BAD for entering into this nonsense.......my apologies.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,061
C'mon ODAAT, aren't you gonna post a link to your "Your Insight Requested" post, maybe even cross-link it so everyone else can read what we're debating here? 
Lighten up. Hopefully we haven't scared Wharf Rat off his own thread here.
Lighten up. Hopefully we haven't scared Wharf Rat off his own thread here.
Old & Sober Member of AA
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nursing Home in Brick, New Jersey
Posts: 5,174
Well, you're right that newcomers do look up to those with 20+ years for direction and leadership, but what I'm reading from you (and I could be wrong) is that you want validation of your suggestion from .... everyone .... and validation is something that neither '20+ persons' nor sponsors do....
Wharf, my apologies that this has turned into a debate over sponsorship and the Steps. Hopefully the only thing you've walked away with is some helpful suggestions.
Do you not get how it sets a poor example? The easier softer way........AA lite.
Actually, having tried for many years to get and stay sober, I found the "easier softer way" to be in the rooms of AA...with or without an official sponsor. There is always a Higher Power, plus the power of all the members of AA in the many rooms...
Looking back, guess all I had hoped for when I posted my comment was acknowledgement it was a strong suggestion, not a frickin' debate from an "oldtimer".
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,061
Now I really want to thank you for sharing your story on this thread, and for some awesome wisdom. You're right, you only get back what you put in. And this comment you shared: "I foolishly went to one meeting a week, did not read the Big Book, had no sponsor, thus did no step work." was my initial approach to AA also.
The Steps are so important, but they're just one of the many parts of my program. I rely highly on the Fellowship, meetings, and service work for maintaining my sobriety. There's also Step and BB studies for me. 9 meetings a week, so maybe that makes me sicker than others.
I'd like to always remain a Newcomer, in spite of my years in sobriety. Because when it comes right down to it, I came in knowing nothing. Everything I know has been shared by another alcoholic or given to me by my higher power.
Truce?
The Steps are so important, but they're just one of the many parts of my program. I rely highly on the Fellowship, meetings, and service work for maintaining my sobriety. There's also Step and BB studies for me. 9 meetings a week, so maybe that makes me sicker than others.
I'd like to always remain a Newcomer, in spite of my years in sobriety. Because when it comes right down to it, I came in knowing nothing. Everything I know has been shared by another alcoholic or given to me by my higher power.
Truce?
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,539
I was at a meeting in Tempe a while back, when I met an oldtimer with 30+ yrs of sobriety.
He rides a Honda Gold Wing, and packs heat.
Maybe you have even met him........anyway, when his mouth opens, toxic waste exits.
All I remember of what he said, and how he acted to this day is:
HE HAS NOTHING IN SOBRIETY I WANT.
Some folks just make you feel that way! It's always a learning experience if you have an open mind!
He rides a Honda Gold Wing, and packs heat.
Maybe you have even met him........anyway, when his mouth opens, toxic waste exits.
All I remember of what he said, and how he acted to this day is:
HE HAS NOTHING IN SOBRIETY I WANT.
Some folks just make you feel that way! It's always a learning experience if you have an open mind!
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,061
Originally Posted by raerob
Actually, having tried for many years to get and stay sober, I found the "easier softer way" to be in the rooms of AA...with or without an official sponsor. There is always a Higher Power, plus the power of all the members of AA in the many rooms...[/b]
Old & Sober Member of AA
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nursing Home in Brick, New Jersey
Posts: 5,174
if YOU had an open mind,
I am able to accept that you have made a suggestion (that was no doubt made to you by your sponsor...who, in turn got it from his sponsor). I respect that...I accept that...I do not have to agree with it.
Apology accepted.
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,539
Oh, you are terribly mistaken is you think my apology was directed at you.
Once again, your lack of humility and your sarcasm screams out!
When you come up with ANY evidence to convince me it is not a positive suggestion that a sponsor should have worked all 12 steps, I'll be very impressed.
Once again, your lack of humility and your sarcasm screams out!
When you come up with ANY evidence to convince me it is not a positive suggestion that a sponsor should have worked all 12 steps, I'll be very impressed.
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