Voluntary hospitalization in Uk
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Voluntary hospitalization in Uk
Hi
What can i expect from this! I am very depressed & have no confidence for work, the future & myself. All i used to like i now don't, i mess relationships up with my excessive needyness to be loved & i don't care anymore!
My psychiatrist has ask asked me if i want to go in hospital for a while, & she will send out a crisis team to evaluate me. What can i expect from going in hospital voluntarily.? Are all my freedoms gone, etc, what is it like & how will it be for me. Will i find it more of a help!
I'm just at a loss at the moment & see no way out!
Gazmix
What can i expect from this! I am very depressed & have no confidence for work, the future & myself. All i used to like i now don't, i mess relationships up with my excessive needyness to be loved & i don't care anymore!
My psychiatrist has ask asked me if i want to go in hospital for a while, & she will send out a crisis team to evaluate me. What can i expect from going in hospital voluntarily.? Are all my freedoms gone, etc, what is it like & how will it be for me. Will i find it more of a help!
I'm just at a loss at the moment & see no way out!
Gazmix
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
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Gaz....I don't know how things are in the UK, but they prolly are similar to hospitalization over here.
The crisis team will ask you questions and/or have you take some "tests" where you rate your feelings on a scale of how bad or good you feel regarding each question. If they do this, it will give them an idea of "how" depressed you are and what exactly is going on and how likely you would be to benefit from hospitalization.
Sounds like you may be suicidal? If so I highly recommend going into the hospital.
In my two hospitalizations basically you are checked in and given a bed, usually with one or more roommates. Three meals are cooked for you, and sometiems snacks. It may be different in the UK, but we were not allowed to smoke, but were provided nicotine patches to reduce cravings.
Typically, group or individual counseling is offered...and informational groups are usually offered.
I learned a great deal from the others I was in the hospital with. Here in the US it is a 3+ day commitment, meaning you will not be released sooner than 3 days (4 if it's over the weekend). After the 3 days you will be examined to see if you need to stay longer, typically if you do not present a danger to yourself or others then you will be released.
You will see a phychiatrist each day or every other day or something and you will be given meds. Your meds are closely monitored and can be changed more often than normal because of the close monitoring.
Mainly...it's nothing to be scared of in my opinion. It is a great time to get some rest and let others do your cooking, laundry and remind you when to take your meds.
I think you will find it helpful and will be glad you did it....I was. My first hospitalization was better than a vacation on the beach - no joke. You can completely let go of all your worries and things while in there (because there is nothing that CAN be done while in there - so why worry) and just focus on you and how you can get better.
Hugs - don't be scared....we'll be here for you when you get back.
The crisis team will ask you questions and/or have you take some "tests" where you rate your feelings on a scale of how bad or good you feel regarding each question. If they do this, it will give them an idea of "how" depressed you are and what exactly is going on and how likely you would be to benefit from hospitalization.
Sounds like you may be suicidal? If so I highly recommend going into the hospital.
In my two hospitalizations basically you are checked in and given a bed, usually with one or more roommates. Three meals are cooked for you, and sometiems snacks. It may be different in the UK, but we were not allowed to smoke, but were provided nicotine patches to reduce cravings.
Typically, group or individual counseling is offered...and informational groups are usually offered.
I learned a great deal from the others I was in the hospital with. Here in the US it is a 3+ day commitment, meaning you will not be released sooner than 3 days (4 if it's over the weekend). After the 3 days you will be examined to see if you need to stay longer, typically if you do not present a danger to yourself or others then you will be released.
You will see a phychiatrist each day or every other day or something and you will be given meds. Your meds are closely monitored and can be changed more often than normal because of the close monitoring.
Mainly...it's nothing to be scared of in my opinion. It is a great time to get some rest and let others do your cooking, laundry and remind you when to take your meds.
I think you will find it helpful and will be glad you did it....I was. My first hospitalization was better than a vacation on the beach - no joke. You can completely let go of all your worries and things while in there (because there is nothing that CAN be done while in there - so why worry) and just focus on you and how you can get better.
Hugs - don't be scared....we'll be here for you when you get back.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: western canada
Posts: 1,441
Gaz...
Shutter gave you the lowdown eh..
It sounds like a "right action" thing to do.
I know the hospitals have the expertise to help a person get past their self destructive ways...
Let us know how it goes...okay..?
Shutter gave you the lowdown eh..
It sounds like a "right action" thing to do.
I know the hospitals have the expertise to help a person get past their self destructive ways...
Let us know how it goes...okay..?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the beach
Posts: 163
Thankyou both
I shall see my psychiatrist on Friday & see what she says. She knows i drink, but lately it's been a lt, like a bottle of Vodka a day & that i feel has made me worse, just i'm addicted, when i drink i enjoy it, but after i'm so emotional & upset, have dreams that freak me out & upset me & night sweats.
I'm gonna real try & give up, maybe to be in bed & rest & heal myself, just as if i have a broken leg!
I've been through a lot lately, having to move back home, a bereavement & splitting with my fiance.
Last night i found myself grieving & crying over the best relationship of my life with a girl i still love so much which ended 2 years ago. I saw photos & it brought it all back, maybe that was the drink talking.
Do you think depressive periods take time to heal, like all i feel like doing now is being confined to bed, i feel so unmotivated & like life holds no future! I can be at home & heal, but the hospital may give me different walls to look at & make me realise it's time i need to change for the better & not let life pass me by & reminiscing of what could've been etc!
Huggs to you all
gaz
I shall see my psychiatrist on Friday & see what she says. She knows i drink, but lately it's been a lt, like a bottle of Vodka a day & that i feel has made me worse, just i'm addicted, when i drink i enjoy it, but after i'm so emotional & upset, have dreams that freak me out & upset me & night sweats.
I'm gonna real try & give up, maybe to be in bed & rest & heal myself, just as if i have a broken leg!
I've been through a lot lately, having to move back home, a bereavement & splitting with my fiance.
Last night i found myself grieving & crying over the best relationship of my life with a girl i still love so much which ended 2 years ago. I saw photos & it brought it all back, maybe that was the drink talking.
Do you think depressive periods take time to heal, like all i feel like doing now is being confined to bed, i feel so unmotivated & like life holds no future! I can be at home & heal, but the hospital may give me different walls to look at & make me realise it's time i need to change for the better & not let life pass me by & reminiscing of what could've been etc!
Huggs to you all
gaz
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: western canada
Posts: 1,441
Gaz...
I think your caught up in a mix of addiction and codependancy.
Period.
And both of them are changeable.
Being in "love" is a chemical state for sure...
but.. attaching importance to something also creates it's own little dynamic that isn't happening anywhere else in this world but our heads.
A line of thought can take us to the damndest places.
So.. we gotta change that line... and clean up our bodies and the way we treat them so that they can support coherant thought.
We are a package unto ourselves... and people may walk with us for a spell.. long or short...
but.. in the end.. we're left with ourselves... and that's the real crux of the problem.
Most of us are not comfortable in our own heads.
.. and that's an understatement.
I know for myself today that the more importance "I" attach to someone or something... the more "I" am going to hurt.
It's just a simple cycle that goes round in our heads that no one else is responsible for or can fix.
It's an inside job.
Gotta stop looking outward.
I gotta look inward.
And God has to be with me .. cause I can't do it alone.
I know your seeking answers...
and if you keep on.. you'll find them.. vodka haze or not.. ;o)
Time to take care of Gaz...
I think your caught up in a mix of addiction and codependancy.
Period.
And both of them are changeable.
Being in "love" is a chemical state for sure...
but.. attaching importance to something also creates it's own little dynamic that isn't happening anywhere else in this world but our heads.
A line of thought can take us to the damndest places.
So.. we gotta change that line... and clean up our bodies and the way we treat them so that they can support coherant thought.
We are a package unto ourselves... and people may walk with us for a spell.. long or short...
but.. in the end.. we're left with ourselves... and that's the real crux of the problem.
Most of us are not comfortable in our own heads.
.. and that's an understatement.
I know for myself today that the more importance "I" attach to someone or something... the more "I" am going to hurt.
It's just a simple cycle that goes round in our heads that no one else is responsible for or can fix.
It's an inside job.
Gotta stop looking outward.
I gotta look inward.
And God has to be with me .. cause I can't do it alone.
I know your seeking answers...
and if you keep on.. you'll find them.. vodka haze or not.. ;o)
Time to take care of Gaz...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the beach
Posts: 163
Hi
I think & know you are right & that my drinking is clouding my thought process, emotional stability & that what goes on in my head, be it mostly irrationaly (which scares me).
Yes, we have to be happy within, i was for 10 years, had my hobbies, my life & didn't care about others, i did what i did, even if it wasn't to my familys liking, i just didn't care, but was alone & had my world.
Then i got a proper gf & maybe that is my addiction now.
I know it's an inside job & only ican help me, my psychiatrist & cpn, councelors etc can only do so much, even the CBT.
The answers i seek, about relationships, only others can give me, to what i want to know. But the answers for my life can only come from me.
Stopping drinking as much will surely help, i do feel better without, but love it too & is a massive part of society & meeting people here in UK, thats why i see no place to meet others or get away from it.
I think & know you are right & that my drinking is clouding my thought process, emotional stability & that what goes on in my head, be it mostly irrationaly (which scares me).
Yes, we have to be happy within, i was for 10 years, had my hobbies, my life & didn't care about others, i did what i did, even if it wasn't to my familys liking, i just didn't care, but was alone & had my world.
Then i got a proper gf & maybe that is my addiction now.
I know it's an inside job & only ican help me, my psychiatrist & cpn, councelors etc can only do so much, even the CBT.
The answers i seek, about relationships, only others can give me, to what i want to know. But the answers for my life can only come from me.
Stopping drinking as much will surely help, i do feel better without, but love it too & is a massive part of society & meeting people here in UK, thats why i see no place to meet others or get away from it.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: western canada
Posts: 1,441
(((Gaz...)))
Methinks your starting to work through the denial around drinking.
And that's a good thing.. ;o)
I wish this recovery stuff happened all on it's own.. but it doesn't.
I believe though.. and I been in it a while.. that... as long as we're working on it.. it's working on us.. whether we can see/feel/measure it or not...
so.. I see you here.. working so hard...
Things will get better.. ;o)
You will find your answers.. and I believe you will find that fully functioning person you once where...
Hang in there... okay?
saying a prayer for determination.. perseverance and clarity for you.
Methinks your starting to work through the denial around drinking.
And that's a good thing.. ;o)
I wish this recovery stuff happened all on it's own.. but it doesn't.
I believe though.. and I been in it a while.. that... as long as we're working on it.. it's working on us.. whether we can see/feel/measure it or not...
so.. I see you here.. working so hard...
Things will get better.. ;o)
You will find your answers.. and I believe you will find that fully functioning person you once where...
Hang in there... okay?
saying a prayer for determination.. perseverance and clarity for you.
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
Posts: 2,954
Originally Posted by Gaz
Stopping drinking as much will surely help
You seem like you are making a lot of progress. You are realizing that alcohol is considered a depressant b/c it brings people down. I do think that depressive episodes have periods of recovery that have to be waded through....that's when I just let go and sleep as much as I want and can. But however long your episode is set to last naturally....it will most surely double in longevity due to the heavy drinking.
I personally think it would probably be a really good thing if you decide to go into the hospital for a few days. I think they might can help build onto the work you have already begun for yourself and help you figure out the right path for you.
yes....please do hang in there.
You are doing super great amidst all the caios of depression.
You are special and you are worth fighting for so don't give up.
I care about you and so do others here.
Prayers for you...
And lots of hugs too
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the beach
Posts: 163
Hi all
I do know that complete abstinence is eventually my target & i think sometime i will get there. My Alcohol advisor tells me that i should consider reasonable goals first & not stopping totally, as i've said that many times before & done it temporarily & relapsed! 3 months was the best & that was a relationship ultimatum! I have a diary i have to fill in & say how much i drink, why, & what i could've done instead!
I realise that i'm hindering my relief of depression, i feel so good for not drinking yesterday although i sweated buckets in the night & woke very anxious still, but i felt clearer.
I still get emotional & angry about myself, to do with relationships & how i messed up. That i had love, & a prospect of happiness & it's my fault that i'm not in it now & that depresses me a lot!
Huggs
Gaz
I do know that complete abstinence is eventually my target & i think sometime i will get there. My Alcohol advisor tells me that i should consider reasonable goals first & not stopping totally, as i've said that many times before & done it temporarily & relapsed! 3 months was the best & that was a relationship ultimatum! I have a diary i have to fill in & say how much i drink, why, & what i could've done instead!
I realise that i'm hindering my relief of depression, i feel so good for not drinking yesterday although i sweated buckets in the night & woke very anxious still, but i felt clearer.
I still get emotional & angry about myself, to do with relationships & how i messed up. That i had love, & a prospect of happiness & it's my fault that i'm not in it now & that depresses me a lot!
Huggs
Gaz
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
Posts: 2,954
Gaz....I'm proud of you for not drinking yesterday. Way to go!!
You do know that totally giving the drink up is your ultimate goal, but I disagree with your advisor. Now, I haven't gone to school for alcohol treatment training or anything and i'm no doc, but I have read a lot about alcoholism and lived a lot of it too. Seems to me that it would be like stopping smoking for me. It will do me no good to try and make myself "cut down" or limit my cigs each day or week b/c I'm still going to crave them right? right. So I would rather save my energies and get to the point where I'm ready to put them down completely. I mean, if I'm going to have to deal with cravings then I want to know that once I get to a certian point then they will start fading. If I try to just cut down then I will be craving and fighting the addiction much longer. And that just seems so much harder to me.
Does that make sense? Like I said, I'm no expert....I would just question your advisor's reasoning in telling you to slowly limit yourself. I mean, that's how most alcoholics come to first realize the have a problem is b/c they've ALREADY tried to control it and weren't able to and that's why outside help is needed. Make sense? Please give AA, or at least AA readings a try? For me? Purty Pleezzzeee
And I know I sound like I'm a harping know-it-all, but that's hardly the case. I say what I know and what I think more often than what I do
But as far as the relationship thing goes....maybe you can relate to this.
I just recently looked back on my life and ALL my past relationships and hurts and struggles and all that crap. I had this grand, fairy-tale dream in my head that I had expected to become a reality. There was no question when I was a teenager that I would be married and at least have one kid and a house by the time I was 24 or 25, or earlier. And here I am....pushing onto 30 and I'm still single, childless and living in my parent's rental house.
But you see.....here's the thing: When I think of al those guys I dated and the two or three I really let my heart fall in love with and who ALL ended up hurting me.....now things are clear to me. If I any one of them had stuck around like I begged some of them to do....I would be SO SO bad off in my life right now. Night and day really. I would have just been miserable and might have killed myself to get out of whatever situation I had put myself in.
So....I was hurt....hurt VERY, VERY badly a few times, but I am SO very happy that they hurt me when they did instead of later down the road.
Am I making sense?
Anyway, it was like a lightbulb that went off in my head when I was talking to my 16-year-old cousin who was upset over a guy and question their "future."
You see....I was the exact same way at 16. I wish someone could have told me that at 30 I would still be single b/c then I wouldn't have put SO much stock into EACH and EVERY relationship! I have basically tourtured myself for 14 years!
That's what I see in you too.... you are putting ALL your stock into every single relationship with a person that appeals to your interests. So of course it's going to devestate you every time it doesn't work out because if you think like I use to then you might be saying to yourself, "But, what if she was the one?"
The answer is simple! She WASN'T!!!! Be glad that it didn't take you 2-4 years of struggling to stay together in order to realize that!
When the right person comes along then they will stick with you b/c they like you for everything you are and everything you are not. You've got to let go of this idea of loosing someone. You didn't loose anyone or chase anyone away....when people aren't meant to be together than nothing is going to be able to keep them together. Someone always has to be the one to leave and the reasons given are usually just the easiest to explain, but the true reason is always that neither of you were meant to be together. However right it might have felt....it just wasn't right.
So if you can....start trying to look for girls that you can JUST become friends with. Don't try to turn anything into anything, just hang out on occasions and chill - no pressures. Don't get physical (because that almost always leads to heartbreak). Just get to KNOW each other. If it's meant to be then you will slowly fall in love, but if it's not meant to be then when one of you stops wanting to hang out so much or whatever then it won't be so painful.
Make sense?
HA....I'm trying to convience myself of all this too... I want to REALLY get to know the next person I end up with BEFORE I end up with him.
Because heck....it could be another 10 years before I'm meant to find the right guy and I'm not going to spend another decade crying my eyes out and wondering what is wrong with "me." Because NOTHING is wrong with me. I like me and if some guy doesn't then he doesn't have to hang out with me. End of story b/c I don't want to waste any more of my life or heart in trying to make impossible relationships work out some how.
Sorry....I always feel like I'm so totally preaching when I talk to you. I don't mean to come off that way if I do....but if I do, like I said, most of the time when I talk about things like this I'm just repeating the things I want to engrain into my own mind.
So just ignore anything I say that might not sit well with you. You are just worth so much more than what you are putting yourself through physically and mentally. Give yourself a break and try to push the mute botton on that negative tape that's always playing in your head about yourself. It's all lies. You are not a bad person. You are a human being who might could use a few lessons on learning how to be gentle with yourself.
Hugs dear friend.
You do know that totally giving the drink up is your ultimate goal, but I disagree with your advisor. Now, I haven't gone to school for alcohol treatment training or anything and i'm no doc, but I have read a lot about alcoholism and lived a lot of it too. Seems to me that it would be like stopping smoking for me. It will do me no good to try and make myself "cut down" or limit my cigs each day or week b/c I'm still going to crave them right? right. So I would rather save my energies and get to the point where I'm ready to put them down completely. I mean, if I'm going to have to deal with cravings then I want to know that once I get to a certian point then they will start fading. If I try to just cut down then I will be craving and fighting the addiction much longer. And that just seems so much harder to me.
Does that make sense? Like I said, I'm no expert....I would just question your advisor's reasoning in telling you to slowly limit yourself. I mean, that's how most alcoholics come to first realize the have a problem is b/c they've ALREADY tried to control it and weren't able to and that's why outside help is needed. Make sense? Please give AA, or at least AA readings a try? For me? Purty Pleezzzeee
And I know I sound like I'm a harping know-it-all, but that's hardly the case. I say what I know and what I think more often than what I do
But as far as the relationship thing goes....maybe you can relate to this.
I just recently looked back on my life and ALL my past relationships and hurts and struggles and all that crap. I had this grand, fairy-tale dream in my head that I had expected to become a reality. There was no question when I was a teenager that I would be married and at least have one kid and a house by the time I was 24 or 25, or earlier. And here I am....pushing onto 30 and I'm still single, childless and living in my parent's rental house.
But you see.....here's the thing: When I think of al those guys I dated and the two or three I really let my heart fall in love with and who ALL ended up hurting me.....now things are clear to me. If I any one of them had stuck around like I begged some of them to do....I would be SO SO bad off in my life right now. Night and day really. I would have just been miserable and might have killed myself to get out of whatever situation I had put myself in.
So....I was hurt....hurt VERY, VERY badly a few times, but I am SO very happy that they hurt me when they did instead of later down the road.
Am I making sense?
Anyway, it was like a lightbulb that went off in my head when I was talking to my 16-year-old cousin who was upset over a guy and question their "future."
You see....I was the exact same way at 16. I wish someone could have told me that at 30 I would still be single b/c then I wouldn't have put SO much stock into EACH and EVERY relationship! I have basically tourtured myself for 14 years!
That's what I see in you too.... you are putting ALL your stock into every single relationship with a person that appeals to your interests. So of course it's going to devestate you every time it doesn't work out because if you think like I use to then you might be saying to yourself, "But, what if she was the one?"
The answer is simple! She WASN'T!!!! Be glad that it didn't take you 2-4 years of struggling to stay together in order to realize that!
When the right person comes along then they will stick with you b/c they like you for everything you are and everything you are not. You've got to let go of this idea of loosing someone. You didn't loose anyone or chase anyone away....when people aren't meant to be together than nothing is going to be able to keep them together. Someone always has to be the one to leave and the reasons given are usually just the easiest to explain, but the true reason is always that neither of you were meant to be together. However right it might have felt....it just wasn't right.
So if you can....start trying to look for girls that you can JUST become friends with. Don't try to turn anything into anything, just hang out on occasions and chill - no pressures. Don't get physical (because that almost always leads to heartbreak). Just get to KNOW each other. If it's meant to be then you will slowly fall in love, but if it's not meant to be then when one of you stops wanting to hang out so much or whatever then it won't be so painful.
Make sense?
HA....I'm trying to convience myself of all this too...
I want to REALLY get to know the next person I end up with BEFORE I end up with him.Because heck....it could be another 10 years before I'm meant to find the right guy and I'm not going to spend another decade crying my eyes out and wondering what is wrong with "me." Because NOTHING is wrong with me. I like me and if some guy doesn't then he doesn't have to hang out with me. End of story b/c I don't want to waste any more of my life or heart in trying to make impossible relationships work out some how.
Sorry....I always feel like I'm so totally preaching when I talk to you. I don't mean to come off that way if I do....but if I do, like I said, most of the time when I talk about things like this I'm just repeating the things I want to engrain into my own mind.
So just ignore anything I say that might not sit well with you. You are just worth so much more than what you are putting yourself through physically and mentally. Give yourself a break and try to push the mute botton on that negative tape that's always playing in your head about yourself. It's all lies. You are not a bad person. You are a human being who might could use a few lessons on learning how to be gentle with yourself.
Hugs dear friend.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the beach
Posts: 163
Hi Shutters
Yes i didn't drink yesterday, but i have today, & i'm not angry, but relieved that my craving is over, the longer i don't drink, the more it is! My psychaitris & you both seem to agree that my alcohol advisor is wrong by asking me what my goalis & saying that it's unreasonable to just quit, as i need to ween of it!, but i think ido!
I'm not drinking Vodka tonight, just wine & in smaller doses , eating & not getting as sloshed!
I am definately going to AA this Wednesday as my psychairtrist told me to & i've always wanted to it just means i have to wait in town for 3 hours after my counceling & that tempts me to go to the pub to kill time!
You make sense by telling me about the pain you & i would endeer through being incapable of holding down relationships that were due for bad endings due to our state, but i know i need to like ME & i don't now, but i hope i will, at the moment i have self loathing as to what could have been & the fu*k ups i have had!
I go into every relationship thinking this is the one, i don't sleep around & when i get involved it's because i want them & nobody else!, i see so many couples & guys who treat girls bad & they eem happy, i just show my affection in a too nedy way, maybe i should be more neglecting & think less of someone!
I know i shouldn't have jumped into this relationship as fast as i did but because it was mutual, i thought it would work! I feel i know now, not to let my feeling run fast & whatever the scenario, if i feel i like someone & the possibilities of intimacy arive soon in the relationship, i should retract!
I don't wanna ignore what you say & i often advise people on things i don't do muyself, how perversly weird is that!
I loved reading all your wisdom Shutters & will print it off & read it lots. You are very wise & thankyou so much
I'm emotional & tears roll now!
Gaz
Yes i didn't drink yesterday, but i have today, & i'm not angry, but relieved that my craving is over, the longer i don't drink, the more it is! My psychaitris & you both seem to agree that my alcohol advisor is wrong by asking me what my goalis & saying that it's unreasonable to just quit, as i need to ween of it!, but i think ido!
I'm not drinking Vodka tonight, just wine & in smaller doses , eating & not getting as sloshed!
I am definately going to AA this Wednesday as my psychairtrist told me to & i've always wanted to it just means i have to wait in town for 3 hours after my counceling & that tempts me to go to the pub to kill time!
You make sense by telling me about the pain you & i would endeer through being incapable of holding down relationships that were due for bad endings due to our state, but i know i need to like ME & i don't now, but i hope i will, at the moment i have self loathing as to what could have been & the fu*k ups i have had!
I go into every relationship thinking this is the one, i don't sleep around & when i get involved it's because i want them & nobody else!, i see so many couples & guys who treat girls bad & they eem happy, i just show my affection in a too nedy way, maybe i should be more neglecting & think less of someone!
I know i shouldn't have jumped into this relationship as fast as i did but because it was mutual, i thought it would work! I feel i know now, not to let my feeling run fast & whatever the scenario, if i feel i like someone & the possibilities of intimacy arive soon in the relationship, i should retract!
I don't wanna ignore what you say & i often advise people on things i don't do muyself, how perversly weird is that!
I loved reading all your wisdom Shutters & will print it off & read it lots. You are very wise & thankyou so much
I'm emotional & tears roll now!
Gaz
A picture's worth a 1000 words
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
Posts: 2,954
Oh Gaz....I was having a rough day today, but you have made me feel so much better. Thank you.
As for the 3 hour wait in town (in order to go to AA), I have been trying to think of something you could do to possibly keep you occupied for that time? I don't know what your money situation is or even what your skin color is, but if tanning wouldn't be a bad thing for your skin type then what about going tanning? I believe it aids in depression by helping our bodies produce Vit. D (but that's not a scientific theory or anything).
What about checking out an entertaining book from the library each week and going to the park or just lounging in a comfy chair inside the library?
Or....even better, plan to spend that 3 hours focusing on YOU. By journaling about the drinking and relationships and things. Or going to the library and getting on the internet and specifically researching things about self-love and such. You could also visit used book stores for cheap books about self love and codependency and then read them during the rest of the time.
Be creative and think about possible ways you could spend that 3 hours doing something that will help you grow
You and I are such similar creatures in feeling there is so much pressure on each new relationship for it to turn out to be "the one." I can identify with nearly every thought and feeling you have talked about in reguards to relationships. I know if I got involved right now that I would easily return to that kind of thinking and I always drive myself crazy. I don't think I'm strong enough to take things slow like I know I have to.
Anyway, I was doing something completely different on the Internet today and came across a site that made me think of you and me and how we are in relationships. This is what part of it said, but please don't think I'm saying that this is what you are or anything. I just saw some things in this that totally describes me in relationships and the part about fearing abandonment is what I do see in you. Please don't be offended for that is not my intentions at all.
The Inverted Narcissist
Inverted narcissists crave to be with a narcissist, regardless of the abuse inflicted on them. They are needy, demanding, and submissive. They fear abandonment (suffer from abandonment anxiety), cling and display immature behaviours in their effort to maintain the relationship with their narcissistic companion or mate upon whom they depend.
Anyway, that was from http://btk-profiles.blogspot.com/200...rsonality.html
mainly it's a blog about a true narcissist - which I've printed out and am taking home to read b/c my ex-alco was definetly a narcisist and I suspect my dad is. So I'm sure I'm prolly at least a little bit of one, but I really hope not.
Anyway...
Hang in there and I'll check back with you when I can.
hugs,
As for the 3 hour wait in town (in order to go to AA), I have been trying to think of something you could do to possibly keep you occupied for that time? I don't know what your money situation is or even what your skin color is, but if tanning wouldn't be a bad thing for your skin type then what about going tanning? I believe it aids in depression by helping our bodies produce Vit. D (but that's not a scientific theory or anything).
What about checking out an entertaining book from the library each week and going to the park or just lounging in a comfy chair inside the library?
Or....even better, plan to spend that 3 hours focusing on YOU. By journaling about the drinking and relationships and things. Or going to the library and getting on the internet and specifically researching things about self-love and such. You could also visit used book stores for cheap books about self love and codependency and then read them during the rest of the time.
Be creative and think about possible ways you could spend that 3 hours doing something that will help you grow
You and I are such similar creatures in feeling there is so much pressure on each new relationship for it to turn out to be "the one." I can identify with nearly every thought and feeling you have talked about in reguards to relationships. I know if I got involved right now that I would easily return to that kind of thinking and I always drive myself crazy. I don't think I'm strong enough to take things slow like I know I have to.
Anyway, I was doing something completely different on the Internet today and came across a site that made me think of you and me and how we are in relationships. This is what part of it said, but please don't think I'm saying that this is what you are or anything. I just saw some things in this that totally describes me in relationships and the part about fearing abandonment is what I do see in you. Please don't be offended for that is not my intentions at all.
The Inverted Narcissist
Inverted narcissists crave to be with a narcissist, regardless of the abuse inflicted on them. They are needy, demanding, and submissive. They fear abandonment (suffer from abandonment anxiety), cling and display immature behaviours in their effort to maintain the relationship with their narcissistic companion or mate upon whom they depend.
Anyway, that was from http://btk-profiles.blogspot.com/200...rsonality.html
mainly it's a blog about a true narcissist - which I've printed out and am taking home to read b/c my ex-alco was definetly a narcisist and I suspect my dad is. So I'm sure I'm prolly at least a little bit of one, but I really hope not.
Anyway...
Hang in there and I'll check back with you when I can.
hugs,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the beach
Posts: 163
Shutters hope you are ok.
I'm having these irrational thoughts today, to want to contact this girl, but i've tryed that & got nothing. I feel like a junkie wanting to score drugs, but there aren't any, you get that!
Like we spent 3 days together & got on SO well, compatable, had so much in common & were dating. Then after a fiew days space, she ended the relationship but wanted friends, yet carried on holding my hand & the occasional hugg & kiss, i didn't get it.
I feel i NEED to know things, what i did wrong, was it me, why are we like this now. I have several theorys that maybe she felt she lead me on & as she is going South to work in February she didn't want to hurt me anymore & call it off sooner rather than later as she knew my feelings, like a stay of execution. Or, she saw an emotional side to me when she knew i was getting attracted & when she said she was going away i got a lump in my throat & cryed in front of her! She said this was i sign of weekness she didn't like! In that case i blame myself! Or, i was just too fast & she saw me as a doormat. Again i blame myself! Or, as she said she feels guilty & lead me on as i get hurt from abandonment & need attention & she doesn't get upset at breakups, she's had many she says & is hard & doesn't feel the way i do towards abandonment anxiety & what devastation it leaves.
Our feelings of not being able to take things slow is scary, for me anyway, as i wonder if i'll ever be happy & yet i do know that in a relationship that is going ok, like when i was engaged, i'm mellow & relaxed & normal, it's just when it ends!
The AA meet i shall go to, i may meet some like minded people, i'll maybe hang around or something & i'll see all the places we went to & get upset, sh*t what am i like.
I want to join gym i think.
I shall check out that link. My psychiatrist has upped my valium intake & believes that as my mother was on Valium when she was pregnant with me, it may have leaft me with anxiety & a need to be calmed, like she passed it onto me, thats interesting! & that also explains my fear of being leaft alone as i was when mum used to take me to school when i was a youngster etc! Maybe it's in our genes & incurable i dunno!
Take care & huggs to you.
Gaz
I'm having these irrational thoughts today, to want to contact this girl, but i've tryed that & got nothing. I feel like a junkie wanting to score drugs, but there aren't any, you get that!
Like we spent 3 days together & got on SO well, compatable, had so much in common & were dating. Then after a fiew days space, she ended the relationship but wanted friends, yet carried on holding my hand & the occasional hugg & kiss, i didn't get it.
I feel i NEED to know things, what i did wrong, was it me, why are we like this now. I have several theorys that maybe she felt she lead me on & as she is going South to work in February she didn't want to hurt me anymore & call it off sooner rather than later as she knew my feelings, like a stay of execution. Or, she saw an emotional side to me when she knew i was getting attracted & when she said she was going away i got a lump in my throat & cryed in front of her! She said this was i sign of weekness she didn't like! In that case i blame myself! Or, i was just too fast & she saw me as a doormat. Again i blame myself! Or, as she said she feels guilty & lead me on as i get hurt from abandonment & need attention & she doesn't get upset at breakups, she's had many she says & is hard & doesn't feel the way i do towards abandonment anxiety & what devastation it leaves.
Our feelings of not being able to take things slow is scary, for me anyway, as i wonder if i'll ever be happy & yet i do know that in a relationship that is going ok, like when i was engaged, i'm mellow & relaxed & normal, it's just when it ends!
The AA meet i shall go to, i may meet some like minded people, i'll maybe hang around or something & i'll see all the places we went to & get upset, sh*t what am i like.
I want to join gym i think.
I shall check out that link. My psychiatrist has upped my valium intake & believes that as my mother was on Valium when she was pregnant with me, it may have leaft me with anxiety & a need to be calmed, like she passed it onto me, thats interesting! & that also explains my fear of being leaft alone as i was when mum used to take me to school when i was a youngster etc! Maybe it's in our genes & incurable i dunno!
Take care & huggs to you.
Gaz
A picture's worth a 1000 words
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
Posts: 2,954
gaz....I know the feeling.....like you just HAVE to have that fix, but the truth is at this point contacting the person you are so desperately desiring is usually more harmful and hurtful.
This is when you need to journal. Write down everything in your mind about what you want to tell her and talk with her about and how you are feeling....just write and write and write until your hand hurts, you are about to fall asleep or you no longer have such a strong craving to contact that person.
Write it out....believe me....it works...
Hugs for today and tomorrow,
This is when you need to journal. Write down everything in your mind about what you want to tell her and talk with her about and how you are feeling....just write and write and write until your hand hurts, you are about to fall asleep or you no longer have such a strong craving to contact that person.
Write it out....believe me....it works...
Hugs for today and tomorrow,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the beach
Posts: 163
Shutters, i have done this before after seperations, the only thing i can think of when i do this is how much my mind is different to hers, that she xan blot me out, like the times we had, shared & laughs just don't mean anything anymore. I think this about all my past intimacys with girls, especially the year+ ones.
Maybe this is my problem, attachment, inability to let go.
I'm thinking she's not contacting me because as she goes away in 2 weeks, i wouldn't see much of her & it's lightening the load now rather than getting closer & hurt later, thats my only piece of encouragement i get from this.
I got an email from my ex fiance telling me that she let me go as she cared for me & that we weren't compatable & i should do the same, that for both our sakes it would be good & that i'm a wonderful person. Jeez, i get she still like s me but because we aren't compatable, that makes me feel like it could've been good if worked on more!
I just don't know where life is going Shutters, i'm doing AA tonight to see if i can meet like minded people. I don't know!
Love
Gaz
Maybe this is my problem, attachment, inability to let go.
I'm thinking she's not contacting me because as she goes away in 2 weeks, i wouldn't see much of her & it's lightening the load now rather than getting closer & hurt later, thats my only piece of encouragement i get from this.
I got an email from my ex fiance telling me that she let me go as she cared for me & that we weren't compatable & i should do the same, that for both our sakes it would be good & that i'm a wonderful person. Jeez, i get she still like s me but because we aren't compatable, that makes me feel like it could've been good if worked on more!
I just don't know where life is going Shutters, i'm doing AA tonight to see if i can meet like minded people. I don't know!
Love
Gaz
A picture's worth a 1000 words
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
Posts: 2,954
Gaz....fun and laughter is fun and laughter....it doesn't change just b/c the person's feelings or distance changes. Those memories will always be there and she will always feel foundly of them and about the time you shared together.
This makes me think of one of my former best friends. I don't think I've ever had a closer friendship with a guy. We had so much fun and had a tradition of a sleep over together each New Year's Eve (completely platonic). We had SO much fun and SO many laughs and watched tons of movies together. Then suddenly he turned on me for unknown reasons (probably b/c he was a compulsive liar and I always called him on his lies - where most other people didn't). But anyway, after a year of not talking to me he called me up a month or so ago and asked me for a favor. I told him he had lost it if he thought I was going to do a favor for him after the way he had treated me. Well, that made him mad and he cussed me out and called me some VERY horrible names and hung up on me. Point being: I can't stand him as a person. You see...I know the "real" him now and that person isn't someone I ever want to be friends with again. BUT, oddly enough, I still miss all those wonderful times hanging out together. I think I mostly crave the closeness and the attention that I got from him. He made me feel important in his life and that felt good. I will always look back on all those good times we had together with GREAT fondness.
Now your situations, I'm sure, are on much smaller scales. Your ex-fiance said she thinks you guys aren't compatable. That's NOT a bad thing! And it's NOT something you should EVER try to work harder at.
Let me explain why: If you were to work harder at being compatable with this girl then that would have meant you would have had to change for HER. The problem with that is that even if it works out for a while....eventually you will come to hold resentments for having to become something you are not and then years down the road the relationship would fall apart and it would be SO SO much more difficult and painful at that point.
You see....we are who we are. We can pretend to be someone else, but the truth is always there and we ALWAYS revert back to our TRUE selves -- UNLESS we spend a lot of time and effort and consistent work to change because WE want to change.
Example: Is there something about yourself that you don't like? I mean, like when you are around other people sometimes and you notice something that just really annoys you and then you think on it and realize that you also tend to do that same type of thing? Well, I know for me there have been hundreds of things like that in my life and I have yet to successfully change a single one completely -- for me or anybody else!
I finally feel like I am making change in my life in regards to a few lifestyle things, but I've truely focused on little else over the past two years. And it's something I'm doing for me because I want to - I will NEVER try to change anything about myself again JUST so I can try to be more compatable with someone.
Again....my language may sound strong, but that's the only way I know right now to say this. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm harping on you.
Somehow you just have to start learning to be YOU and to start learning how to love YOU.
Do you have any of the AA materials?
What about Alanon materials?
I know for certian that most of the Alanon books have readings about detachment and those readings REALLY helped me a lot when I was trying to let go of my last relationship (where I was nearly fatally obsessed with him and the relationship).
I'm gunna try to find a few things for you to look over before I leave work today.
Hugs....and keep hanging in there and going to those AA meetings!!
You are doing ALL the right things so keep up the great work.
This makes me think of one of my former best friends. I don't think I've ever had a closer friendship with a guy. We had so much fun and had a tradition of a sleep over together each New Year's Eve (completely platonic). We had SO much fun and SO many laughs and watched tons of movies together. Then suddenly he turned on me for unknown reasons (probably b/c he was a compulsive liar and I always called him on his lies - where most other people didn't). But anyway, after a year of not talking to me he called me up a month or so ago and asked me for a favor. I told him he had lost it if he thought I was going to do a favor for him after the way he had treated me. Well, that made him mad and he cussed me out and called me some VERY horrible names and hung up on me. Point being: I can't stand him as a person. You see...I know the "real" him now and that person isn't someone I ever want to be friends with again. BUT, oddly enough, I still miss all those wonderful times hanging out together. I think I mostly crave the closeness and the attention that I got from him. He made me feel important in his life and that felt good. I will always look back on all those good times we had together with GREAT fondness.
Now your situations, I'm sure, are on much smaller scales. Your ex-fiance said she thinks you guys aren't compatable. That's NOT a bad thing! And it's NOT something you should EVER try to work harder at.
Let me explain why: If you were to work harder at being compatable with this girl then that would have meant you would have had to change for HER. The problem with that is that even if it works out for a while....eventually you will come to hold resentments for having to become something you are not and then years down the road the relationship would fall apart and it would be SO SO much more difficult and painful at that point.
You see....we are who we are. We can pretend to be someone else, but the truth is always there and we ALWAYS revert back to our TRUE selves -- UNLESS we spend a lot of time and effort and consistent work to change because WE want to change.
Example: Is there something about yourself that you don't like? I mean, like when you are around other people sometimes and you notice something that just really annoys you and then you think on it and realize that you also tend to do that same type of thing? Well, I know for me there have been hundreds of things like that in my life and I have yet to successfully change a single one completely -- for me or anybody else!
I finally feel like I am making change in my life in regards to a few lifestyle things, but I've truely focused on little else over the past two years. And it's something I'm doing for me because I want to - I will NEVER try to change anything about myself again JUST so I can try to be more compatable with someone.
Again....my language may sound strong, but that's the only way I know right now to say this. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm harping on you.
Somehow you just have to start learning to be YOU and to start learning how to love YOU.
Do you have any of the AA materials?
What about Alanon materials?
I know for certian that most of the Alanon books have readings about detachment and those readings REALLY helped me a lot when I was trying to let go of my last relationship (where I was nearly fatally obsessed with him and the relationship).
I'm gunna try to find a few things for you to look over before I leave work today.
Hugs....and keep hanging in there and going to those AA meetings!!
You are doing ALL the right things so keep up the great work.
A picture's worth a 1000 words
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
Posts: 2,954
Here's just a little something I found at http://www.datemypet.com/get_ready_f...etachment.html
Love Skill * Detachment * Can You?
I was on this very topic yesterday with a friend. Her parting words were something like it sounded like a good idea but she had “never been good at detaching.” Hours went by before I had the “ah ha!” Detachment doesn’t come easily to anyone! It is one of the most difficult of all the Love Skills to master …
Detachment is neither kind nor unkind. It does not imply judgment or condemnation of the person or situation from which we are detaching. Separating ourselves from the adverse affects of another person’s behavior* can be a means of detaching: This does not necessarily require physical separation. Detachment can help us look at our situations realistically and objectively.
Detachment allows us to let go of our obsession with another’s behavior and begin to lead happier and more manageable lives, lives with dignity and rights, lives guided by a Power greater than ourselves. We can still Love the person without liking the behavior.
~ Al-Anon Family Groups
Detachment means you can stop:
Suffering because of the actions or reactions of other people
Allowing yourself to be used or abused by others
Doing for others what they can do for themselves
Manipulating situations so others will eat, got to bed, pay bills, exercise, or do whatever you think they “should” do.
Covering up for another’s mistakes or misdeeds
Creating A Crisis
Preventing a crisis if it is in the natural course of events
* Definition of “Another Person’s Behavior”: Often ends with “ing” * thinking, eating, speaking, spending, drinking, worrying, complaining, smoking, gambling, procrastinating, working, not working … dying. Which one is worrying you right now?
Love Skill * Detachment * Can You?
I was on this very topic yesterday with a friend. Her parting words were something like it sounded like a good idea but she had “never been good at detaching.” Hours went by before I had the “ah ha!” Detachment doesn’t come easily to anyone! It is one of the most difficult of all the Love Skills to master …
Detachment is neither kind nor unkind. It does not imply judgment or condemnation of the person or situation from which we are detaching. Separating ourselves from the adverse affects of another person’s behavior* can be a means of detaching: This does not necessarily require physical separation. Detachment can help us look at our situations realistically and objectively.
Detachment allows us to let go of our obsession with another’s behavior and begin to lead happier and more manageable lives, lives with dignity and rights, lives guided by a Power greater than ourselves. We can still Love the person without liking the behavior.
~ Al-Anon Family Groups
Detachment means you can stop:
Suffering because of the actions or reactions of other people
Allowing yourself to be used or abused by others
Doing for others what they can do for themselves
Manipulating situations so others will eat, got to bed, pay bills, exercise, or do whatever you think they “should” do.
Covering up for another’s mistakes or misdeeds
Creating A Crisis
Preventing a crisis if it is in the natural course of events
* Definition of “Another Person’s Behavior”: Often ends with “ing” * thinking, eating, speaking, spending, drinking, worrying, complaining, smoking, gambling, procrastinating, working, not working … dying. Which one is worrying you right now?
A picture's worth a 1000 words
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
Posts: 2,954
Oh....here's a REALLY great site I found at http://joy2meu.com/Toxiclove.htm
Toxic Love - the dysfunctional, addictive, cultural norm
"True Love is not a painful obsession. It is not taking a hostage or being a hostage. It is not all-consuming, isolating, or constricting. Unfortunately the type of love most of us learned about as children is in fact an addiction, a form of toxic love."
***
"If we can start seeing relationships not as the goal but as opportunities for growth then we can start having more functional relationships. A relationship that ends is not a failure or a punishment - it is a lesson."
***
"As long as we believe that we have to have the other in our life to be happy, we are really just an addict trying to protect our supply - using another person as our drug of choice. That is not True Love - nor is it Loving."
Toxic Love[U]
by Robert Burney M. A.
(Burney is a Co-Dependency Specialist)
"As long as we believe that someone else has the power to make us happy then we are setting ourselves up to be victims"
Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls
One of the biggest problems with relationships in this society is that the context we approach them from is too small. We were taught that getting the relationship is the goal.
It starts in early childhood with Fairy Tales where the Prince and the Princess live happily-ever-after. It continues in movies and books where "boy meets girl" "boy loses girl" "boy gets girl back" - the music swells and the happy couple ride off into the sunset. The songs that say "I can't smile without you" "I can't live without you" "You are my everything" describe the type of love we learned about growing up - toxic love - an addiction with the other person as our drug of choice, as our Higher Power.
Any time we set another human being up to be our Higher Power we are going to experience failure in whatever we are trying to accomplish. We will end up feeling victimized by the other person or by our self - and even when we feel victimized by the other person we blame our self for the choices we made. We are set up to fail to get our needs met in Romantic Relationships because of the belief system we were taught in childhood and the messages we got from our society growing up.
There is no goal to reach that will bring us to happily-ever after. We are not incomplete until we find our soul mate. We are not halves that cannot be whole without a relationship.
True Love is not a painful obsession. It is not taking a hostage or being a hostage. It is not all-consuming, isolating, or constricting. Believing we can't be whole or happy without a relationship is unhealthy and leads us to accept deprivation and abuse, and to engage in manipulation, dishonesty, and power struggles. The type of love we learned about growing up is an addiction, a form of toxic love.
Here is a short list of the characteristics of Love vs. toxic love (compiled with the help of the work of Melody Beattie & Terence Gorski.)
1. Love - Development of self first priority.
Toxic love - Obsession with relationship.
2. Love - Room to grow, expand; desire for other to grow.
Toxic love - Security, comfort in sameness; intensity of need seen as proof of love (may really be fear, insecurity, loneliness)
3. Love - Separate interests; other friends; maintain other meaningful relationships.
Toxic love - Total involvement; limited social life; neglect old friends, interests.
4. Love - Encouragement of each other's expanding; secure in own worth.
Toxic love - Preoccupation with other's behavior; fear of other changing.
5. Love - Appropriate Trust (i.e. trusting partner to behave according to fundamental nature.)
Toxic love - Jealousy; possessiveness; fear of competition; protects "supply."
6. Love - Compromise, negotiation or taking turns at leading. Problem solving together.
Toxic love - Power plays for control; blaming; passive or aggressive manipulation.
7. Love - Embracing of each other's individuality.
Toxic love - Trying to change other to own image.
8. Love - Relationship deals with all aspects of reality.
Toxic love - Relationship is based on delusion and avoidance of the unpleasant.
9. Love - Self-care by both partners; emotional state not dependent on other's mood.
Toxic love - Expectation that one partner will fix and rescue the other.
10. Love - Loving detachment (healthy concern about partner, while letting go.)
Toxic love - Fusion (being obsessed with each other's problems and feelings.)
11. Love - Sex is free choice growing out of caring & friendship.
Toxic love - Pressure around sex due to insecurity, fear & need for immediate gratification.
12. Love - Ability to enjoy being alone.
Toxic love - Unable to endure separation; clinging.
13. Love - Cycle of comfort and contentment.
Toxic love - Cycle of pain and despair.
Love is not supposed to be painful. There is pain involved in any relationship but if it is painful most of the time then something is not working.
There is nothing wrong with wanting a relationship - it is natural and healthy. There is nothing wrong with wanting a relationship that will last forever - expecting it to last forever is what is dysfunctional. Expectations set us up to be a victim - and cause to abandon ourselves in search of our goal.
If we can start seeing relationships not as the goal but as opportunities for growth then we can start having more functional relationships. A relationship that ends is not a failure or a punishment - it is a lesson.
As long as our definition of a successful relationship is one that lasts forever - we are set up to fail. As long as we believe that we have to have the other in our life to be happy, we are really just an addict trying to protect our supply - using another person as our drug of choice. That is not True Love - nor is it Loving.
Toxic Love - the dysfunctional, addictive, cultural norm
"True Love is not a painful obsession. It is not taking a hostage or being a hostage. It is not all-consuming, isolating, or constricting. Unfortunately the type of love most of us learned about as children is in fact an addiction, a form of toxic love."
***
"If we can start seeing relationships not as the goal but as opportunities for growth then we can start having more functional relationships. A relationship that ends is not a failure or a punishment - it is a lesson."
***
"As long as we believe that we have to have the other in our life to be happy, we are really just an addict trying to protect our supply - using another person as our drug of choice. That is not True Love - nor is it Loving."
Toxic Love[U]
by Robert Burney M. A.
(Burney is a Co-Dependency Specialist)
"As long as we believe that someone else has the power to make us happy then we are setting ourselves up to be victims"
Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls
One of the biggest problems with relationships in this society is that the context we approach them from is too small. We were taught that getting the relationship is the goal.
It starts in early childhood with Fairy Tales where the Prince and the Princess live happily-ever-after. It continues in movies and books where "boy meets girl" "boy loses girl" "boy gets girl back" - the music swells and the happy couple ride off into the sunset. The songs that say "I can't smile without you" "I can't live without you" "You are my everything" describe the type of love we learned about growing up - toxic love - an addiction with the other person as our drug of choice, as our Higher Power.
Any time we set another human being up to be our Higher Power we are going to experience failure in whatever we are trying to accomplish. We will end up feeling victimized by the other person or by our self - and even when we feel victimized by the other person we blame our self for the choices we made. We are set up to fail to get our needs met in Romantic Relationships because of the belief system we were taught in childhood and the messages we got from our society growing up.
There is no goal to reach that will bring us to happily-ever after. We are not incomplete until we find our soul mate. We are not halves that cannot be whole without a relationship.
True Love is not a painful obsession. It is not taking a hostage or being a hostage. It is not all-consuming, isolating, or constricting. Believing we can't be whole or happy without a relationship is unhealthy and leads us to accept deprivation and abuse, and to engage in manipulation, dishonesty, and power struggles. The type of love we learned about growing up is an addiction, a form of toxic love.
Here is a short list of the characteristics of Love vs. toxic love (compiled with the help of the work of Melody Beattie & Terence Gorski.)
1. Love - Development of self first priority.
Toxic love - Obsession with relationship.
2. Love - Room to grow, expand; desire for other to grow.
Toxic love - Security, comfort in sameness; intensity of need seen as proof of love (may really be fear, insecurity, loneliness)
3. Love - Separate interests; other friends; maintain other meaningful relationships.
Toxic love - Total involvement; limited social life; neglect old friends, interests.
4. Love - Encouragement of each other's expanding; secure in own worth.
Toxic love - Preoccupation with other's behavior; fear of other changing.
5. Love - Appropriate Trust (i.e. trusting partner to behave according to fundamental nature.)
Toxic love - Jealousy; possessiveness; fear of competition; protects "supply."
6. Love - Compromise, negotiation or taking turns at leading. Problem solving together.
Toxic love - Power plays for control; blaming; passive or aggressive manipulation.
7. Love - Embracing of each other's individuality.
Toxic love - Trying to change other to own image.
8. Love - Relationship deals with all aspects of reality.
Toxic love - Relationship is based on delusion and avoidance of the unpleasant.
9. Love - Self-care by both partners; emotional state not dependent on other's mood.
Toxic love - Expectation that one partner will fix and rescue the other.
10. Love - Loving detachment (healthy concern about partner, while letting go.)
Toxic love - Fusion (being obsessed with each other's problems and feelings.)
11. Love - Sex is free choice growing out of caring & friendship.
Toxic love - Pressure around sex due to insecurity, fear & need for immediate gratification.
12. Love - Ability to enjoy being alone.
Toxic love - Unable to endure separation; clinging.
13. Love - Cycle of comfort and contentment.
Toxic love - Cycle of pain and despair.
Love is not supposed to be painful. There is pain involved in any relationship but if it is painful most of the time then something is not working.
There is nothing wrong with wanting a relationship - it is natural and healthy. There is nothing wrong with wanting a relationship that will last forever - expecting it to last forever is what is dysfunctional. Expectations set us up to be a victim - and cause to abandon ourselves in search of our goal.
If we can start seeing relationships not as the goal but as opportunities for growth then we can start having more functional relationships. A relationship that ends is not a failure or a punishment - it is a lesson.
As long as our definition of a successful relationship is one that lasts forever - we are set up to fail. As long as we believe that we have to have the other in our life to be happy, we are really just an addict trying to protect our supply - using another person as our drug of choice. That is not True Love - nor is it Loving.
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
Posts: 2,954
http://www.mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap6/chap6l.htm
Healthy v. Toxic Love
http://www.crescentlife.com/psychiss...toxic_love.htm
HealthyPlace.Com
http://www.healthyplace.com/communit...Toxiclove1.htm
Healthy v. Unhealthy Love
http://www.lightshifter.com/toxicluv.htm
Just a few more sites for now
Healthy v. Toxic Love
http://www.crescentlife.com/psychiss...toxic_love.htm
HealthyPlace.Com
http://www.healthyplace.com/communit...Toxiclove1.htm
Healthy v. Unhealthy Love
http://www.lightshifter.com/toxicluv.htm
Just a few more sites for now
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the beach
Posts: 163
Last night was my 1st AA meet, it was good, 50 people there, i felt in good company, i said nothing, but i awanted to do a Share, i will do soon! It was good, beneficial, but most hace stopped drink, i haven't!
I still crave & drink, feel it's my best friend & eventually through lots of meets i will change, were all in a different place!
I get all you say about trying to become compatable & therefore going back to old routines, i stopped the drink for her, not for me as an example!
I shall go to an Halfway house & slowly get myself into it & living in a shared house, this is scary, but excituing, i don't know what's most! I want to, i'll meet others, but i'll be without my comfort zone that i could wallow in forever!
I'll read & read all your posts & check those links.
Sorry i ca't write as much as you at the moment, but i take in every word!
Love
Gaz
I still crave & drink, feel it's my best friend & eventually through lots of meets i will change, were all in a different place!
I get all you say about trying to become compatable & therefore going back to old routines, i stopped the drink for her, not for me as an example!
I shall go to an Halfway house & slowly get myself into it & living in a shared house, this is scary, but excituing, i don't know what's most! I want to, i'll meet others, but i'll be without my comfort zone that i could wallow in forever!
I'll read & read all your posts & check those links.
Sorry i ca't write as much as you at the moment, but i take in every word!
Love
Gaz
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