I really just need some advice and to tell my story- GF to a recovering heroin addict
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
addicts are also exceptionally skilled at getting around drug tests....so just the fact that there were drug tests is not a clear indication that he was NOT using.
of course addicts are humans.....however being an addict is not an excuse or a free pass for bad behavior. addiction on its own does not cause or force people to commit criminal acts. but yes of course people under the influence can and will do things they would never ALLOW themselves to do sober.
as a former crack addict i know i engaged and considered engaging in some pretty crazy stuff. some of it makes me shudder today.....some of it i know is buried pretty deep under morals and ethics, but is still resident.
of course addicts are humans.....however being an addict is not an excuse or a free pass for bad behavior. addiction on its own does not cause or force people to commit criminal acts. but yes of course people under the influence can and will do things they would never ALLOW themselves to do sober.
as a former crack addict i know i engaged and considered engaging in some pretty crazy stuff. some of it makes me shudder today.....some of it i know is buried pretty deep under morals and ethics, but is still resident.
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by AnonWife
...But drugs alter the brain and cause behaviors that would never happen if not under the influence...
Originally Posted by Priscilla84
...We have said time and time again that drugs hijack the brain and make people do things they would never do sober...
These are nice opinions from two F&F members), but they're not facts; when it comes to opinions I prefer those od the NIH/NIDA*. Just as drugs do not cause mental disorders, drugs do not cause bad behavior; they simply allow them (more easily than if not under their influence).
Bad behaviors are more like personality disorders, which are seen as being caused be genes and environment, and not drugs.
(o:
* Drug abuse and mental illness often co-exist. In some cases, mental disorders such as anxiety, depression, or schizophrenia may precede addiction; in other cases, drug abuse may trigger or exacerbate those mental disorders, particularly in people with specific vulnerabilities.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by NoelleR
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These are nice opinions from two F&F members), but they're not facts; when it comes to opinions I prefer those od the NIH/NIDA*. Just as drugs do not cause mental disorders, drugs do not cause bad behavior; they simply allow them (more easily than if not under their influence).
Bad behaviors are more like personality disorders, which are seen as being caused be genes and environment, and not drugs.
(o:
* Drug abuse and mental illness often co-exist. In some cases, mental disorders such as anxiety, depression, or schizophrenia may precede addiction; in other cases, drug abuse may trigger or exacerbate those mental disorders, particularly in people with specific vulnerabilities.
These are nice opinions from two F&F members), but they're not facts; when it comes to opinions I prefer those od the NIH/NIDA*. Just as drugs do not cause mental disorders, drugs do not cause bad behavior; they simply allow them (more easily than if not under their influence).
Bad behaviors are more like personality disorders, which are seen as being caused be genes and environment, and not drugs.
(o:
* Drug abuse and mental illness often co-exist. In some cases, mental disorders such as anxiety, depression, or schizophrenia may precede addiction; in other cases, drug abuse may trigger or exacerbate those mental disorders, particularly in people with specific vulnerabilities.
I agree with this. I chose poorly with the words "make someone do things." I didn't think it through enough and do not stand by the word MAKE.
I happened to mention that link between mental disorder and drug use in another thread. That is something I'm realizing now. That my AXBF's addiction was a symptom of a bigger, more encompassing issue.
I'm also trying not to think about it too much anymore. Addicts do things that addicts do, and what difference does it make why- the truth remains that they did it. That's what I've been told on this board and for me it's a good thought to get my head around.
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
Please share your experience with kayvan5 and stop bickering with each other. This is disrespectful to kayvan5 and you are hijacking her thread with program battles. She is a brand new member. She is intelligent and can pull information from your posts that may help her gain more understanding and she can form her own opinions with the information you share with her.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 317
Kayvan, you are 20 years old with your whole life ahead of you. Please consider the input of the other people here who have been married to heroin users, what their life has been like, and be wise about this. From 18 to 25 is when we are most idealistic and think we can save the world (or people). We are at our most romantic ("I thought he was my forever.")
Personally speaking, I have spent too much of my life with alcohol/chemical dependent people (addicts) because I didn't want to let go of my original dream for our relationship, that "he was my forever." And the "forever" person you thought he was and that you fell in love with was not the person he truly was/is. If he had presented himself to you at the very beginning as "Hi, I'm Dave. I do heroin daily, and to support my habit, I commit robberies. Want to go out?" I doubt you would have bothered to give him your phone number.
Think long and hard about how much of your life and energy you want to devote to a heroin addict who may or may not want you when he gets sober or whom you may or may not want. There is nothing wrong or disloyal or bad with you allowing him to do his recovery while you go on with your own life, your schooling, your career. If you run into him five years down the road and he's been clean and sober for four and a half years, still works his recovery, is self-supporting, has his own car and his own place to live, money in the bank, a savings account, credit cards in his own name - and you want to go have coffee with him, that's a different story. You are young. You are not married to him. You are not his sister/mother. Wish him well. Your "forever" guy is waiting for you around the next corner. He doesn't do drugs or drink to excess. He has his s*** together. He won't make you cry until you're sick or seek out help from websites like this. That's who your forever should be and who you deserve.
Personally speaking, I have spent too much of my life with alcohol/chemical dependent people (addicts) because I didn't want to let go of my original dream for our relationship, that "he was my forever." And the "forever" person you thought he was and that you fell in love with was not the person he truly was/is. If he had presented himself to you at the very beginning as "Hi, I'm Dave. I do heroin daily, and to support my habit, I commit robberies. Want to go out?" I doubt you would have bothered to give him your phone number.
Think long and hard about how much of your life and energy you want to devote to a heroin addict who may or may not want you when he gets sober or whom you may or may not want. There is nothing wrong or disloyal or bad with you allowing him to do his recovery while you go on with your own life, your schooling, your career. If you run into him five years down the road and he's been clean and sober for four and a half years, still works his recovery, is self-supporting, has his own car and his own place to live, money in the bank, a savings account, credit cards in his own name - and you want to go have coffee with him, that's a different story. You are young. You are not married to him. You are not his sister/mother. Wish him well. Your "forever" guy is waiting for you around the next corner. He doesn't do drugs or drink to excess. He has his s*** together. He won't make you cry until you're sick or seek out help from websites like this. That's who your forever should be and who you deserve.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 574
Originally Posted by AnonWife
Your posts sounds like you have a lot of pain and anger Joie. Sometime "lies" are really good intentions that dont come full circle due to the powerful hold addiction has. And sometimes manipulation does happen, but this is why we need to be aware, cautious and understand addictive behaviors and how desperate people can become.
I will never tolerate someone who has a drinking problem into my life. I will help people but I cannot 'fix' anything for another adult who isn't willing to put forth the work needed to be sober.
Anger ? ... well sure, years later, after working alanon program - I met my exABF. He was a great guy. And then came pills, crack, cocaine and heroin. I refused to admit that the man that I knew was 'gone'. He was here every day. He was a central part of my life. He brought me so much laughter and experience. All during those 3 years, I denied that this was NOT okay for me. I stood by and he became dependent upon me. By the time (thanks to all the compassion here and the blunt words of advice that I read in others stories) - that I decided to leave him - it was too late.
Anger ? ... yes, he's gone. He left. A big hole in so many lives. And yet everyone finds solace in knowing that he no longer has to fight this beast.
It's particularly tough here to share your story and read the responses while we write about 'the addict' or 'that addiction' when at the same time - you are a survivor yourself. None of the words fit every situation. I am very happy that you made it into recovery.
Why did you choose recovery ?
No one could love you into it. And you cannot love your husband into it. This is a fact. We can stand by and 'manage' ... we can tolerate the situation because we love and care. But it won't last forever.
I'm not sorry that you are upset with my words. I stand by them ... because I've learned. Maybe later than many, but I'm so happy to be here ! The words of everyone here, have helped me even if I didn't like what I read. I needed to know that there were other people out there. I needed to know the facts about addiction. I needed to know the odds of recovery (not good). I needed to know that there was hope after I walked away.
I wish you great peace with what you are dealing with. I wish you strength. I hope that everyone saves themselves some of the scars and that they don't waste too much time trying to save someone who 'left' when they started using. There are too many others who can benefit from our experience. And people who need help here. This is a positive place even if it seems buried with 'anger' or 'pain'.
I mean, gee ... aren't we all here because we hurt (pain) and wish to help others ?
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 214
I think this the pain in your post is what grabbed me. Your words sounded to hold so much hurt. Thank you for explaining a little. I hope in time some of the pain will fade.
Why did I choose to recover?
Its been 5 years and feels like a lifetime because its all behind me now.
I wanted a better life. Ive already shared my husband was instramental in my recovery. He was a constant support and I try now to piece together how he helped me so I can model it back to him (he was not a drug user when I was sick, its happened due to prescriptions).
Basically he kept trying to encourage me, do things to help me choose a different path. He would plan long weekends, dinners out, family trips, he listened to me. Sometimes I would fail to meet his offers. Inside I wanted to spend a sober weekend with him but I couldnt. Physically or emotionally. Sometimea I made promises but I could not fully keep them. But there was never an intent to lie or hurt him. Often he was the only reason I tried at all.
And it slowly built up, no I couldnt live that way. And I wanted more. And one day in tears he asked if I was ready to get some help and I simply said yes. He went with me to my doctor. I explained and was honest. He helped me physically quit and therapy helped me heal and recover.
Now we have a beautiful daughter and life has been good except he is now under water emotionally. Abusing meds and drinking to self medicate. I dont know what will happen because each of us goes through a different experience, but this is where Im at now.
Why did I choose to recover?
Its been 5 years and feels like a lifetime because its all behind me now.
I wanted a better life. Ive already shared my husband was instramental in my recovery. He was a constant support and I try now to piece together how he helped me so I can model it back to him (he was not a drug user when I was sick, its happened due to prescriptions).
Basically he kept trying to encourage me, do things to help me choose a different path. He would plan long weekends, dinners out, family trips, he listened to me. Sometimes I would fail to meet his offers. Inside I wanted to spend a sober weekend with him but I couldnt. Physically or emotionally. Sometimea I made promises but I could not fully keep them. But there was never an intent to lie or hurt him. Often he was the only reason I tried at all.
And it slowly built up, no I couldnt live that way. And I wanted more. And one day in tears he asked if I was ready to get some help and I simply said yes. He went with me to my doctor. I explained and was honest. He helped me physically quit and therapy helped me heal and recover.
Now we have a beautiful daughter and life has been good except he is now under water emotionally. Abusing meds and drinking to self medicate. I dont know what will happen because each of us goes through a different experience, but this is where Im at now.
Originally Posted by JOIE12
Anon - pain ? well sure ... that would be a given. Each comment isn't intended to hurt anyone. When I was in my 30's, I thought I could love my husband into sobriety. He was a problem drinker. He wasn't a bad person, provided well for his family. But .... I learned how to cope with this to keep my family together. It fell on me. And yes, that's too much weight to carry to be responsible for making life good for everyone involved.
I will never tolerate someone who has a drinking problem into my life. I will help people but I cannot 'fix' anything for another adult who isn't willing to put forth the work needed to be sober.
Anger ? ... well sure, years later, after working alanon program - I met my exABF. He was a great guy. And then came pills, crack, cocaine and heroin. I refused to admit that the man that I knew was 'gone'. He was here every day. He was a central part of my life. He brought me so much laughter and experience. All during those 3 years, I denied that this was NOT okay for me. I stood by and he became dependent upon me. By the time (thanks to all the compassion here and the blunt words of advice that I read in others stories) - that I decided to leave him - it was too late.
Anger ? ... yes, he's gone. He left. A big hole in so many lives. And yet everyone finds solace in knowing that he no longer has to fight this beast.
It's particularly tough here to share your story and read the responses while we write about 'the addict' or 'that addiction' when at the same time - you are a survivor yourself. None of the words fit every situation. I am very happy that you made it into recovery.
Why did you choose recovery ?
No one could love you into it. And you cannot love your husband into it. This is a fact. We can stand by and 'manage' ... we can tolerate the situation because we love and care. But it won't last forever.
I'm not sorry that you are upset with my words. I stand by them ... because I've learned. Maybe later than many, but I'm so happy to be here ! The words of everyone here, have helped me even if I didn't like what I read. I needed to know that there were other people out there. I needed to know the facts about addiction. I needed to know the odds of recovery (not good). I needed to know that there was hope after I walked away.
I wish you great peace with what you are dealing with. I wish you strength. I hope that everyone saves themselves some of the scars and that they don't waste too much time trying to save someone who 'left' when they started using. There are too many others who can benefit from our experience. And people who need help here. This is a positive place even if it seems buried with 'anger' or 'pain'.
I mean, gee ... aren't we all here because we hurt (pain) and wish to help others ?
I will never tolerate someone who has a drinking problem into my life. I will help people but I cannot 'fix' anything for another adult who isn't willing to put forth the work needed to be sober.
Anger ? ... well sure, years later, after working alanon program - I met my exABF. He was a great guy. And then came pills, crack, cocaine and heroin. I refused to admit that the man that I knew was 'gone'. He was here every day. He was a central part of my life. He brought me so much laughter and experience. All during those 3 years, I denied that this was NOT okay for me. I stood by and he became dependent upon me. By the time (thanks to all the compassion here and the blunt words of advice that I read in others stories) - that I decided to leave him - it was too late.
Anger ? ... yes, he's gone. He left. A big hole in so many lives. And yet everyone finds solace in knowing that he no longer has to fight this beast.
It's particularly tough here to share your story and read the responses while we write about 'the addict' or 'that addiction' when at the same time - you are a survivor yourself. None of the words fit every situation. I am very happy that you made it into recovery.
Why did you choose recovery ?
No one could love you into it. And you cannot love your husband into it. This is a fact. We can stand by and 'manage' ... we can tolerate the situation because we love and care. But it won't last forever.
I'm not sorry that you are upset with my words. I stand by them ... because I've learned. Maybe later than many, but I'm so happy to be here ! The words of everyone here, have helped me even if I didn't like what I read. I needed to know that there were other people out there. I needed to know the facts about addiction. I needed to know the odds of recovery (not good). I needed to know that there was hope after I walked away.
I wish you great peace with what you are dealing with. I wish you strength. I hope that everyone saves themselves some of the scars and that they don't waste too much time trying to save someone who 'left' when they started using. There are too many others who can benefit from our experience. And people who need help here. This is a positive place even if it seems buried with 'anger' or 'pain'.
I mean, gee ... aren't we all here because we hurt (pain) and wish to help others ?
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