Ilovemysonjj

Hello Amber, I am a mom of a recovering heroin addict (24) son. We have been on the merry go round since he was 20. The biggest thing I can share is how the DENIAL has affected me. I excused behaviors for way too long, I gave my son the benefit of the doubt time and again and our family paid the price EVERY time we buried our heads in the sand. I found my sanity when we asked our son to leave and go to rehab or the streets . Keep in mind, he has already gone to two other rehabs for court orders. This time it was his choice. He wasnt going to jail if he didnt go, but he wasnt going to live under my roof. Your daughter at least admitted that she has used. I would be careful and watch her actions, and not her words. Addicts will say anything and everything to protect the addiction! I believe it is very good to set the boundaries but it is VERY IMPORTANT to stick to them. We learned the hard way on that one. Keep reading and keep posting. It is very early in your discovery of this addiction so it will be a bit bumpy at first while you process everything. PS: My son is doing very well in his rehab and I am keeping my nose OUT of his business (which is a job in itself!).

Amysad

Amberlily - your original post sounds SO much like me - my AD got the naltexone shot and we (her family) were so excited about her new start ...... THEN we come to find several days upon her return she may have switched to another drug as she wasn't feeling well from rapid detox process - it was heartbreaking - coming up on next date for next shot and she has disappeared on us. The long and the short of it is definitely stay with this forum.....it has helped me so much in dealing with my despair. But also as many people have written NOTHING will change without her commitment to ongoing rehabilitation - this is a "lifelong" commitment DAILY to sobriety. Most importantly take care of yourself and your daughter - these forums and NARANON and Codependency groups will help. Prayers sent to you and your daughter

Twofish

Hi Amber,
As you have seen...us mommas stick together and support each other during sorry and happiness. Dads are always welcome too!!
As Ilovemysonjj has said, this is all quite new to you and your family, and she's sooo right about the denial and making excuses for the behaviors your daughter may show. I'm like the biggest Codie(codependent mom) in the SR family. I made excuses and stayed in denial for a long long time. So long that I lost friends because I isolated myself and would never believe MY girls would ever touch heroin. But, I learned the hard way. Now, I am better, think more rationally and admit to myself what they are, addicts, recovering, but addicts.
The other day, my daughter was in a rare talkative mood and she told me the first time she ever did heroin (she sniffed it, she has a needle phobia) it made her feel the best she has ever felt, her high was so intense and it made her feel so good that she thinks she was hooked on it from the first time she ever tried it.
I sat there with my mouth open in shock. My baby girl (she's 23) was hurting and I never saw it coming until it was right on top of me. She is in treatment, doing the Suboxone and getting the support she so desperately needs.
At least for you, your beautiful daughter, told you early on and if she wants and desires to be free of the addictions chains, you are one step closer to recovery.
We are all thinking good thoughts and saying many prayers for you Amber. We are here to support you during these hard times and will rejoice with you during the happy times!!
Keep reading the posts, there are a lot of mommas here willing to walk that walk and help you with anything especially if you should stumble, we are here to pick you up, brush off any dirt, and continue to walk and support you.
Be kind to yourself Amber!
TF

Amysad

Good for you twofish ....... It's tough but it is the only way to go - I learned the hardest

allthatsgood

Amber- one of the hardest things I had to learn, accept and understand was the unbelievable hold and control heroin had on my son. It was too much for me to fathom that someone I loved so much was willing to do just about anything to keep his using going. Until I understood this I could not look at what was really going on with clear eyes.

divinespark

Amber,

I have a very different perspective from some others in this group. My BF got "sober" last year and went on subs. Setting boundaries is good, but you also have to make sure that your daughter has the TOOLS she needs to get better. As has been stated above to some degree, she will not neccessarily seem "high" to you. Actually, for a serious long-term addict, they will pretty much feel, look and act "normal" if they are using, but it is when they STOP using that they go into withdrawal and feel like $#!t. Pinpoint pupils - sign she's using. Yawning frequently - sign she's starting to withdraw. When they go in withdrawal they will get irritable, etc. Also physically everything "opens up" - pupils, yawns, tearing, sniffling, diarrhea. When they use it closes - pin point pupils, constipation. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE watch the show NURSE JACKIE on Showtime and see what a functional addict looks like. If your daughter is working and/or going to school on H then it sounds like she is one. BTW, your drug tests will have to be every three days. It easily leaves their system within 72 hours. Get her the Vivitrol if she wants it. That alone though may or may not be enough. If you can get her into re-hab first and then do Vivitrol along with regular urine screens and outpatient therapy that would be much better. It takes AT LEAST 72 hours to "detox". So even if you could get her in for a long 4 day weekend that could be helpful, but ideally 28 days or more. The longer the better. Also, I know it sounds controlling and co-dependent, but it worked with my BF: if the Vivitrol dose not work there would be the possibility of a low dose suboxone, hide the strips somewhere she canNOT find them (like safety deposit box or at your office if she doesn't have access). Literally give her one strip each day and watch her swallow it. That way you can ensure that it does not get "abused" Also, keep one or two extra on hand in case you run out or in case she gets hurt and actually needs pain relief. Also, and I cannot stress this enough if you do decide to go down that route, start her out on the LOWEST dose of subs possible. Also, find out what she has been doing and for how long. A Dr. should be able to assess her dosage by testing her urine for a few days in a row (if its actually H it is not a standard dose, whereas if its an actual pill there would be a certain # of mg). Also dose is VERY dependent on route of administration. Orally taking a pill, smoking it, and IV are totally different things. She may legitimately want to quit. I honestly do NOT believe that people successfully quit cold turkey on their own without help, and stay quit for long periods of time that way. Even though she can physically "detox" within days, addicts can also suffer "Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome" or PAWS. Being addicted to opiates for a certain period of time causes actual changes in the brain. While "withdrawals" will be over in about 4 days. PAWS can last for about 2 years. I.E. It takes about two full years for her brain to get back to "normal". Also do not ever think that she is "no longer an addict". She will be an addict for the rest of her life. But she can be an addict in recovery versus an addict who is using. If she thinks that Vivitrol alone will help, then try it. Do not be discouraged if she relapses (this is almost expected). But obviously, several have commented that it can help. If you have insurance I would also consider 1) therapy for her and 2) family therapy. Al-Anon for you and SOME type of support group for her. It could be AA, NA or something else. Just be careful of which meetings you go to because certain meetings that have a lot of "court ordered" participants are only there to stay out of jail, not because they want to be, and they will be setting up drug deals in the parking lots. But there are other meetings where that will not be the case. Also some people in certain meetings talk about "glory days" and glorify drug use and this can be triggering for some, so if she tells you that the meetings aren't working, then maybe they're not. I think that the most important thing that helped my boyfriend was that I did NOT insinuate that he was a bad person because he had a bad habit. He wanted to quit and I knew he wanted to quit. But I knew that opiates are not something that you just walk away from. He needed help. I got him help, and I was a total pain in the a$$ for quite awhile. I had his phone on GPS monitor so I could track his whereabouts at all times, I gave him weekly + pop urine tests on different days of the week so he would not know exactly when he was going to get tested (these are like $20 at Walmart). In addition his doctor tested him at every visit. But I gave him the support he needed. Do not become the enemy. Offer her help, and let her know that its "the monkey on her back" that you want gone, not her. OMG I think this is the longest post ever.

divinespark

Oh yeah, and until she comes completely clean and tells you for real how often how much and how long she's been using and it blows your mind, then just assume she's lying because she will be. As it turns out my BF had a 20 year habit and had been a daily user for at least a decade. No one goes in with that goal. They get there gradually and it could happen to any of us, especially if we had to take pain pills for a medical reason (at first).

Twofish

Dear Amber,
There has been tons of info being given to you and that's a ton of support! You are one of us, a member of SR and the mommas club.
One thought keeps going thru my mind as I follow this thread...read, listen and absorb what the members are saying, but, take what you think may be helpful ...and leave the rest. By no means is a mom able to digest all the advice and apply it to your addiction ride!
One day at a time, one minute at a time if you feel overwhelmed. Remember to breath, take care of yourself, get that support and have the plan in place.
You can ask her...but only your daughter knows if she wants and desires recovery/rehab and get off the addiction ride.
She's a good person who happens to have a relentless disease, a disease that takes and takes and takes some more and doesn't care WHO or WHAT gets in it's way.
You've got a good start Amber! Be there for her and be there for yourself
Take care.
TF

Amysad

This is one of the best forum threads - I have it saved on iPad and phone and retread it all the time for clarity - none of us are alone - we know this a long hard battle ourselves included - prayers and good wishes to all of you and our family. I watched a PA state senator meeting with members of drug agencies. - one in four families in PA is experiencing heroin and/or opiate addiction. This is a national epidemic and all of us are in it together. The insurance companies need to step up their game on rehab assistance and the prescribing dr sand dentists need to stop over prescribing meds. It's Scarey where we ALL find ourselves

Twofish

Hi Amber!
I'm up in St. Paul, MN. A beautiful town rich in history however I've seen many young people standing at street corners with cardboard signs asking for money. Not food or shelter but money. My husband said it's for drugs and to not give these kids any cash. Isn't that sad? Like Amysad said, in PA addiction is an epidemic, well, in the USA, addiction has become an epidemic. It's everywhere and something has to be done before we lose this young generation to this demon. I don't know what to do except to start in my own home.
I won't give these kids with that familiar look of desperation on their faces any money and I pray that one of these faces won't be that of my own child.
I'll say a prayer for these lost souls and hope someday recovery enters their lives.
Take care all you mommas out there.
TF

Amberlily

I can't thank everyone enough for all the advice you have given me. Sorry I haven't responded sooner but I needed to step away for a bit and clear my head.
I gave her a letter explaining that we love her and will do whatever she needs to help get through this. Then I listed all the things we will not do and what behavior will get her kicked out.
The next morning she told me that she wanted to get into counseling. This is a huge step for her. She can't stand the idea of therapy. So I asked her if she was using now and she said no. Then I asked her if she was scared she would use again and she said Yes.

She has since decided that she didn't want the shot but counseling with suboxone. We found some counselors that are under my insurance that don't offer it and some people that offer it but are giving us the run around. We also found an intensive outpatient place, but they said she needs the suboxone script first. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. Its hard enough to get an appointment and that isn't the worst part. My insurance has a $2500 deductible then only covers 60%. I'm not sure what that will mean if she goes with the Extensive Out Patient place. We worked really hard to have all of the NOTHING that we have. I'm not sure how we are going to do this. I'm finding that it is really hard to get the care she needs. I'm terrified that this will put her off. I'm getting her all the names from my insurance company but she is the one making all the calls.

I'm sorry if I'm all over the place. I'm just overwhelmed. Can someone tell me if there's an easier way to set this all up?

daisy6234

Please don't apologize for feeling overwhelmed. Or for being all over the place. We have all been where you are at. At the beginning I was so frazzeled and had no clue what was up or down. I begin by researching and keeping my backbone. And by talking to so many people I learned a great amount of resources. It was one of the hardest things to do in my life. My son's addiction turned our family upside down. He has been continual sober for 90 days. (August 2). He told me his sponser said "to him addiction was like being in a car wreck, but to us it was /is a massive train wreck" It will affect us longer and have a lot of work to do. Keep moving forward and please get help for yourself. It is something I have had to learn/learning. But the toll it has taken will take time. And I learned it is not selfish to take care of me even when others oppose it.

GardenMama

Perhaps one of the best things she could do is look for her own healthcare coverage. Many states have treatment programs for people on Medical Assistance. In our state it is called Rule 25, and it is a substance abuse evaluation that also takes housing, health care and food support into account. We will soon be losing our fancy insurance due to my recent job loss, so my AD (almost 21) is going to file on her own for insurance on the new state healthcare "marketplace" and will end up getting something affordable since she is unemployed and technically homeless. This means she has to do more for herself and her own recovery, which I found is better for all of us, and she will be responsible for co-pays and tracking her own health decisions. You might look into something like this. I know your daughter plans to live with you, but I have to warn you about that--it is very hard for them to really get clean and do the work they need to do when they are living at home, at least at first.

I completely understand why you feel frazzled--it is a horrible system we have set up for healthcare anyway (even with the ACA improvements), and then when you add rehab/treatment, addiction prevention drugs, co-occurring mental issues, etc. you learn that the insurance companies ultimately make decisions about our health and well-being, not our care providers. Sorry for the soap box, but this one issue of how addiction is treated in our system really gets me going!

Off the soapbox now, sending strength and wisdom your way as you navigate all these complicated issues! Big hug, too.

Amberlily

I don't think she could get her own healthcare but I will definitely look into it.

I have gotten a little closer. We found a doctor that prescribes suboxone. Unfortunately their timeline to return the call is 24-48 hours. That's just to return the call. Then we found a IOP that will manage and refill the suboxone while she is involved with their treatment plan. The IOP includes treatment for the family as well.

I already told her she can live here as long as she stays within our rules. I don't want to go back on that and I feel comfortable with the decision. If things start changing then I'll tell her its time to go.

oceanlady1958

i have been reading all of your posts everyday and look to all of you for the strength i need to get through my day. it is a struggle to deal with all of the issues we face and i try but sometimes i just don't know how to continue. i am depleated, overwhelmed and emotionally exhausted. where do we put all of our children when they cannot live with us, how do we sleep at night knowing they are out there? after 9 rehabs 13 arrests and a stabbing there is no rock bottom for some, how do we move on from that? how do we take care of ourselves when a part of us is out there? i go to meetings for weeks, i read everything i can , i listen to others, but how will i let go? i know it will never end unless i end it, i know i can't save him. none of us can unless they want it for themselves, but how does a mother wrap her head around that? sorry for venting, just so sad, all of us, to live this way looking at our children as they struggle, it is more than i can bear sometimes.

Amysad

Oceanlady and everyone.......I feel so much like all of you - and it is hard - very hard. But at least for me, the advices I got through SR really have helped a great deal.....disengaging with love means giving my AD a chance - a chance to find herself and do the work necessary to get her life back. This may sound cold but frankly we can't live with her in our lives any longer unless she embraces sobriety. We would rather live without her addiction and save ourselves. At first I looked at it as "leaving her" but now I look at it as "living us".

Twofish

Very well said Amy. It's very hard to give up that little girl you once knew and raised. But, now She's a grown woman with a very difficult and horrible disease to control. she is the one who has to control and manage her addiction. She's the addict, not you.
Us mommas can't do this, never, we can't. But, we can breathe...and take care of ourselves. We can also give support, emotional care, when they are ready to embrace their sobriety, fight for it and someday, come back from those lost years that addiction has stolen away.
Please don't overwhelm yourself, it's not worth it. You will make yourself sick and if you get sick, who will take care of the rest of your family?
Support. Us mommas need it too, if not more than the addict herself. Breathe...
Take care, all you parents who are reading this and are still stuck on that addiction roller coaster.
TF

hopeful4

I know in the state I live in in the US that if you have health insurance a lot of rehabs will put you on a payment plan for the remainder of the balance, even if it's a very small amount per month.

Good luck and God Bless!

Twofish

Hi Amber,
Just checking to see how YOU are doing? Were you able to find some kind of treatment for your daughter, or should I say, has SHE found a way out, a light near that tunnel to sobriety?
I have hope for you and your family. Don't ever give up hope.
Gentle hugs,
TF