Vale

Twofish wrote:
>>>>>I would say yes, I am broken and I don't deserve their love or attention<<<<<<
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Sorry, 2F.......I call BS on this one....inserting BS launch codes and turning the key:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNlOsko1H7Q

Listen up, lady....and look me in the eye when I am speaking to you!
You may have some things to work through but you are NOT broken.
And YOU DO deserve their love and attention----DON'T FORGET IT!!!

....and another thing.....

(I didn't catch you looking away, did I?------'cuz there will be HELL to pay if you did!!)

We're here for you & we care. We care when you disappear and we care when you are
hurting. Not the kind of 'care' that thinks "how do I graciously ditch this 'friend' without
losing face"-----but rather the real deal because each and every one of us has been
torpedoed below the waterline by this scourge.

But implying that you have no value...THAT makes Vale's neck hairs stand up
and makes for verbal asskickings like this one.

You matter. You have value. You deserve happiness. If you think you do not
then........with all due respect...YOU ARE WRONG.

(Don't MAKE Vale open more cans of whoopass on you........because he WILL!!!!!)

Mags1

And so say all of us, well said Vale x

Ann

It stops when you say "enough, no more", it can stop today, Twofish. You CAN do it. You cannot change anyone else or their drama, but you can change your life and make it livable again. If I did it, you can do it. I promise.

Find a meeting and go, you need the live support right now.

Hugs

cleaninLI

Twofish, Vale and Ann said it all! Never....ever......say you don't deserve your husband and son's support!!! You are a beautiful person, twofish! Your needs matter......they matter to your son.....they matter to us......they better matter to you!

Ann is so right about when this stops. It stops when you make it stop. When you finally tell your daughter's "No, I will not be your alarm clock anymore."......"No,I will not be your driver anymore." "No, I will not be your maid anymore."........"No, I will not be your cook anymore."..."No, I will not be your personal assistant anymore......and last but not least, " No, I will not be your savior anymore."

When you say to them "Your choices, your consequences."

That is the day you will find peace in your life..........that is the day you get off the ride.......and that is the day you get to go home!"

Twofish

I so much am listening to all of you, really listening, even the tears flowing down my face are listening. The meetings help, I had only been to 2 of them so I still feel out of place kind of, but I think the more I go, the meeting that fits me, the better and more confident I will feel.
I slept poorly last night again. The older girl still won't come home. She is mad that the police were called on her by me the other day. So how many days can she go without Methadone? Can the Oxycodone keep the w/d at bay?
I did call her and did ask her if she was ok and safe...she was mad that I called at 7am and woke her up. I can't win. I think she needs this Methadone and she hasn't had it now for 3 days. Which I am being blamed for. I will take this hit just to get her back on her MMP.
As some of you have said, and I'm not offended in the least, why I can't believe in myself, and I do feel broken as a mom, maybe more like a failure as their mom.
I've always been so proud of my beautiful girls. The good girls, the girls that other moms wanted their girls to hang around with. But, addiction wanted to hang around them too. Thisis something that's not welcome, get away from my family and leave us alone! Why us? And yes I did look you in the keyboard "eye" whilst you were talking to me. Yes, something is wrong with me...but I don't know what it is. I feel different, especially now, when people or other family members judge them or me for their addiction..I have no answers as to why this happened.
I called back the therapy place and said that waiting two months is too long, I'm not in crisis but I'm getting close. So they found an appt. on 1/24/14, they said its a new therapist but to me it's a face to face support, someone who can think clearly and give me support, advice and encourage me to not fear the unknown.
I'm so worried about the older girl, I want her to get healthy. What about her schooling? The UW starts up in a few weeks, I keep paying the $750/month rent on her apartment and I don't know, judging by her behavior, if she can go or not.
I thinks it's time to grow up. She is 22 yrs old, I can't keep rescuing her like I do. But I feel "sorry" for her, she never wanted to become an addict, who does? Her luck in life is poor. She has such a good future ahead of her, this is why I feel the need the urge to rescue her, help fix her. Sadly, I know what you all are thinking, she has to do it not me.
I guess I will stop crying, what good are tears anyway?

Fandy

So much drama, you are throwing your $$ away, what do you think she is doing without methadone? You gave her full access to the oxy?
And she chose to do heroin, it was a decision she made and then brought home all of her crap and dumped it on your lap to fix.
You can't fix or change her, she has to do it herself...
the good news is that she is gone from your house, let her stay away and get yourself some sleep and sanity.

trudgingagain

My daughter was 19 when she got her first DUI...in college...1 2/ years left. I paid for rehab, got her a new apt. (when she was kicked out of sober living), paid her tuition and then first/last and $850/mo for rent so she could finish school. Yes, she finally graduated...but along the way, she had an addict from rehab move in with her. She became an addict....Six years later, she is still with him....still using....and the college degree means nothing. I bought her a new MAC computer for graduation...she is in graphic design....she recently pawned it to afford one motel after another....Breaks my heart...but I am DONE. I, too, was sad...had high hopes for her....unfortunately, she doesn't have them for herself. I shed sooooo many tears, got angry, etc. etc....absolutely no good. She blames me for everything....it is not my fault. It is not yours.

KeepinItReal

Twofish- I will pray for you and the situation your in. I can feel your just trying to do the best for your daughters. Sadly - with addiction - help and supporting the addict sort of backfires. I learned this years ago. I went into a well known and respected rehab clinic (while pregnant) and asked to speak to someone. In tears I asked the Dr. what can I do to help my husband quit. He said.. stop supporting him. Take back your car, stop paying his bills, don't feed him... don't lend him $1. I was SHOCKED. I really had no idea.. and couldn't imagine doing this. He even went as far as not letting him see our daughter.
I listened to this Dr. Except for the part of him not seeing his daughter. It was supervised by his parents anyway. I slipped up a few times. Gave him $10 here or there.. paid for some food. It was all unappreciated. He tried EVERY tactic to get me to give him $. I looked at it like this - If I love him and I want to help him - I better listen to these professionals. It felt wrong.. but it was the right thing to do for HIM.. it actually hurt me to do it... but eventually it was easier and easier. This is just MY personal experience with my husband. Not my children. Good luck. Sending prayers.

Kindeyes

Hey twofish.....I'm sorry that you're having such a difficult time right now. I've been where you are.....at a point of complete breakdown.....and that is often when the miracles happen.

I had to reach a point of making my self preservation my first priority. Literally....the disease of addiction was killing ME even though I wasn't the one abusing the substances. I had to reach for the life ring. For me it became a matter of rebuilding myself. People told me to "work the program I wished he would." I listened. I did (and still do) work the program I wish my son would work. It saved my life and has dramatically improved the quality of my life AND the quality of the relationship I have with my son.....whether he is using or not.

Your daughter has asked you multiple times to leave her alone. She keeps laying out a boundary......and you keep crossing it. Respect her boundary. Leave her alone. Take all of that energy (because God knows it takes a L O T of energy to do what we do) and turn it towards you. You can save yourself....and by doing that, you show them that they can do it too.

Establish your own boundaries. Start with little ones and build up to the doozies. One step at a time......one day at a time......it is possible.

You've taken some huge steps in taking better care of yourself. Addicts "hear" what we DO--not what we say.

Take care of you.

gentle hugs
ke

Upsetnneedhelp

Twofish, you have become obsessed with your daughters methadone treatment. It's her responsibility to get to the clinic every morning. If she doesn't then she will feel the negative consequence of not going. Maybe the girls need to do a little time in jail? Getting the nice and easy deal with the court may not have been a good thing. I am quite sure they would not have the same kind of nasty attitudes because the other inmates would not allow it.

needingabreak

Twofish I agree with upsets post (and everyone else's as well). I had to learn too that I could not worry about everything my son wasn't doing that he should be. When you learn you cannot control it, you can start to let go and let God. If she is hurting that much from not taking the methadone she will take care of it. She always has in the past right? Trust me, our kids are extremely savy and will not allow themselves to go without anything if they feel that badly. They are very capable of taking car eof themselves even though you do not believe it. She is already staying somewhere else so not on the street am I right? These kids are very good at taking care of their own needs. She is deciding not to go TF so don't keep asking her. She wants to be left alone so do it no matter how hard it is. She is a big girl and will figure this out herself.


One thing I wonder is could it be possible that you are having trouble with her NOT needing you because she has for so long? Are you possibly feeling left out or sad because she is not with you? If so, I can understand that.
Continue going to your meetings and try to focus on YOU. I think you are addicted to your daughter like I was to my son, worrying about every little thing he did. Now I am not worrying at all and feel so much RELIEF. Try not contacting her. Do it one day at a time. Yes, you will worry but you already have seen calling her does nothing but cause you stress. As my son's therapist at rehab said about trying to fix him and save him "How's that workin out for ya?" Not too good! I think if you sit back and ask yourself what your constant worry and trying to control her behavior has done for either of you, I think you can say the same thing-it has only caused you both a lot of stress! Try TF, one day at a time and take your life back. We are all here rooting for you and here to support as much as possible. Those of us with addicted kids totally get where you are right now. We've ALL been there! We've all done the same things! HUGS.

Twofish

Yes, SR, I have to take my life back and let her live hers, the way she wants to.
I just got home, I left at 9am when she called to come and get her. What a game she played with me. First she said the address, right, she's in a town of 20,000, so I asked her how to get there, she said use my GPS (I don't have a GPS BTW), I said tell me where it's by, she said use the GPS on my phone (I don't have a fancy phone like hers that has the Internet on it) I said I'm not coming to get you cause I'm not driving around for hours looking for the street. She waited 5minutes and then texted me the directions, why couldn't she just do that to begin with? So I get there, I see our other car that won't start. I call and say I'm in the driveway, no response. 10 minutes later she comes out.
By this time my 15 yr old calls and want to be picked up. Sure, I will be there soon.
She finally gets in the car, I tell her I have to pick up her bro, she starts freaking out. I mean yelling that I only care about him, not her, she is going thru w/ds and wants to get to the clinic for the Methadone. The boy is at a McDonalds, 15 minutes away.
I had to make a decision, and I made the wrong one. I forsake my poor son, who doesn't cause me stress, to sit, alone, without money for 2 hours in a McDonalds while I drove the girl to Green Bay to get her Methadone.
After her Methadone she said she has to stop by the ER to get drug tested. What? Now? Well, first lets get the boy. He wasn't mad, just out of sorts, being alone like that.
We went to the ER, while she was in there I made a decision. While sitting there for 2 hours to be drug tested, she has to go. I forsake my son for her and her addiction. I'm gonna give her a day or two to get her stuff packed up and I'm taking her back to her apartment. My head is pounding so bad right now, it feels like a rubber band snapped in it.
She thinks I'm being ridiculous to do this to her considering that I was such a bad mom and fu(ked her life up. Well then, it is a good idea that she goes back. Se threatens to kill herself, she has nothing to live for, well that's too bad, so sad she thinks this lowly of herself. She's getting more desperate, my son is NOT begging me to let her stay. So she calls my husband. He tells her, ok, if you'd prefer, he will take her back. She's furious now, temper tantrum time. What will be will be.
I spend all day with her doing nothing but argue and get a headache. I got nothing done, I'm emotionally exhausted and I wished I had listened to you all weeks ago.
Does this sound familular to anyone? Like have you been there, done that with your addicted kid?
This is/was a very easy thing to tell her. I would very much want my life back, preferably yesterday. I'm concerned that she talked suicide, but she could of easily jumped out the car door or admitted herself to the hospital. She never actually said the word "kill" or "off herself". Well, she said " I might as well not live if you don't want me". I never said I didn't want her, I said I'm tired of the games.
I'm gonna take my life back this week. I can't second guess my decision here, can't give in again.
So that's what my day was all about. A day in the life of loving an AD.
Someone asked something about me not wanting to let go or obsessed with her Methadone use. Hummmm, yes, maybe I am. I'm addicted to my daughter and fixing her.
Her first days/months of college, 5 yrs ago, were bad, like an empty nest kind of pain. I was real emotional then (am now!) I wanted her to stay home and be my girl, never leave me.
I am thinking differently now.

Vale

2F wrote:
I've always been so proud of my beautiful girls. The good girls, the girls that other moms wanted their girls to hang around with. But, addiction wanted to hang around them too. This is something that's not welcome, get away from my family and leave us alone! Why us? And yes I did look you in the keyboard "eye" whilst you were talking to me. Yes, something is wrong with me...but I don't know what it is. I feel different, especially now, when people or other family members judge them or me for their addiction..I have no answers as to why this happened.
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Nobody has the answer as to why this happened, Twofish.
No, Twofish, nothing is WRONG with you.

But I found myself thinking the same thoughts. What is wrong with me. I kept the
whole thing secret at first because I was so ashamed. People like ME don't get involved
with unseemly, despicable crap like this. This "drug addiction" is for losers, untouchables,
and those who live on the wrong side of the tracks. If my attitude seemed a touch aloof
and haughty......call it honest arrogance.

Let me tell you something, my friend. Addiction is one HELL of a leveler. It exposes
many of your life assumptions and gives lie to some of your most closely held beliefs.
As for those who 'judge' you and your family.....pray for them. Be thankful that they
still have the luxury of those parochial little junior high social games----and pray they
NEVER know the terror and helplessness when the devil stops at THEIR address and
rips their home, their family, and the very fabric of their reality......to shreds.

I've seen it. Up close. And it wasn't even MY family. But even so, I felt the heat on
my face as the door into hell opened.....and swallowed a Mom whole, devastating her
kids, destroying her home-----and laying waste to safety, security, and contentment.

(BTW.....how do you look a keyboard 'in the eye')

Let me tell you about YOU, Twofish. Not because I know you but because I know
humans. You are about 1000 times more resilient than you think you are, but your main
obstacle is not realizing and/or believing that. People do tell jokes and exchange
pleasantries....even in the relocation & concentration camps---I know this from my father.

Darkness only lasts until you turn on a light. Even as recently as 1994, very few had
access to the web. They suffered in silence----wondered what people were thinking of
them in this 'situation'---complete hostages to their local gossip klatch.

But no more. You are not alone. You are not a

a)freak
b)bad Mom
c)oddball
d)all the above

Sorry, lady......nothing special about you at all. Take a number. Don't try
to take cuts. Don't be an aloof jerk like I was. Talk to the others in line---some
will be boring blowhards(like VALE!)----but some you will gain valuable insight from.

But bottom line....it was was nothing you DID, and it's not who you ARE. You are
just a person thrust into extraordinary circumstances by decisions not your own.

I know you will acquit yourself well. You deserve a life....do not EVER let anyone
tell you that you don't! Like Ann said, go find a live support group (face to face)
and discover just HOW unexceptional your situation is.....and that there will ALWAYS
be other humans who know, understand, and care.

needingabreak

So sorry that was your day TF but it sounds like you are starting to see what you need to do for peace. I'm so sorry your son had to pay for it too. I was the one who talked about obsessing because I did it! My son's life problems became my entire world. My other two kids (thank God they are all adults) got sick and tired of hearing about his every move, non move and decision. So, yes, I know how it feels. It is why I said I feel such RELIEF (if I scream it from the rooftop will you hear it?) because I no longer feel a prisoner to his day to day choices(and it was my own doing!). I know you are afraid but it will benefit both of you for her to move back to her apartment. You have done enough for her with no gratitude or thank you. Time for you to begin a new chapter in your life (your son will be thrilled) and time for her to get a reality check. You should never be made to feel like you have to chose between her and your son. Why should he have to suffer?

I am proud of you for not driving around for hours when she at first refused to give you the directions. You stuck to your guns. I am glad you are seeing things more clearly. It will come TF. You are getting there just like the rest of us in this club. Keep moving forward! Hugs.

Twofish

NAB, Yes, I am afraid. Afraid of what will happen next, what she will do, intentionally or accidentally in the next few weeks.
What's my hang up or excuse for thinking this?
The accident. It changed her, she is sad, apprehensive. She wants to be independent, and so do I. How can she be independent while she is dependent on opiates?

Jend719

TF .. I'm so glad you went to see the therapist and also called for a sooner appointment. Both great steps in the right direction.

I can't help but think (from my own experience) that your daughter is pushing you away because she wants to use. She wants an excuse, someone else to blame...(mom called the cops, I didn't want to go home, it just happened etc). Again, these are all still her decisions. My daughter has called me every vile name in the book, said the most hurtful unloving things to me. Each time she gets sober she still wants her "mommy". It's a game. The sooner you realize the pattern of the game the better you will be able to handle each move you need to make. Sometimes you need to be "hard" and sometimes you will need to be "soft". The "game" is starting up at my house I sense. I am on guard so to speak. It absolutely s&cks that your husband has checked out and left you with the mess. That makes him part of the problem also. But for now, you need to put your big girl panties on and handle this mess and show everyone(including your son) what a strong woman looks like.
I have to say (with love) I was shocked to read that you left him at mcdonalds. The AD has/had been out on her own for days until she called crisis for you to get her to the methadone clinic. I've had these same types of situations with my daughter. You don't come around or call and you push me away and BAM all of a sudden I'm supposed to jump because now you need something? It doesn't work that way!

I'm happy that you decided to tell her to to go. We will be here with you along the way. On one hand it's not easy, on the other hand it's easier ....only those that have been there will get that.

Vale....your words of wisdom never cease to hit the nail on the proverbial head with a little humor on the side. Well said!

TF you are and will continue to be in my prayers!

Vale

We all fear these things. When I went no contact I screened the
obituaries for 7 regional newspapers DAILY. All the while fearing---
what could I have done differently?

The answer is.....nothing. It was not my decision to make.SR
finally opened my eyes to that central reality.....and brought me a
sense of peace I thought I'd never find-----and for which I will
always be grateful.

Your friend,
Vale

Kindeyes

We (the mothers and loved ones of addicts) operate from a place of fear, panic, obligation, resentment, and anger. We make our decisions based on these emotions and thought processes. Our interactions with the addict are based around these emotions and thought processes.

Yes. I have done absolutely ridiculous things for my son trying to control the outcome and it still didn't work out like I wanted it to. I was resentful, angry, and felt used and abused. I felt pretty sorry for myself. Once I started working from a healthier perspective......my life got better. The only thing that's wrong with you, Twofish, is the same thing that was wrong with me. As Vale so eloquently pointed out.....you aren't special......you are just like many of us.

I fixed (and am still fixing) me.....and you can too. If/when you want it bad enough.....you'll do whatever it takes to improve your life. I started losing the "healthy" relationships....in trade for one unhealthy one. Are you willing to do that? Are you willing to lose your son in exchange for your daughter(s)? Husband in exchange for your daughter(s)? Will you resent your daughter(s) when you have no one left? Will you resent those who chose to leave you because they couldn't live with the insanity anymore?

I lost my grandson. I darn near lost my daughter. That's what it took for me to wake up.

Addiction can tear families apart.....but there IS hope.....and it starts with you.

Take care of you.

gentle hugs
ke

needingabreak

Here is something I hope can help you. It has helped me.

12 Steps To Self Care

1)If it feels wrong, don't do it
2)Say exactly what you mean
3)Don't be a people pleaser
4)Trust your instincts
5)Never speak bad about yourself
6)Never give up on your dreams
7)Don't be afraid to say no
8)Don't be afraid to say yes
9)Be kind to yourself
10)Let go of what you cannot control
11)Stay away from drama and negativity
12)Love yourself

Twofish

My friends, First, Jend, I feel the worst of the worst for leaving my son at McDonalds like that for 2 hrs. It doesn't matter that he is 15 yrs old, he was depending and waiting for me, and I let him down. That will be months of damage control on my part. But, on my tiny defense, he was NOT supposed to be there. He was suppose to be at Tanners (friend) house. It had been arranged and I spoke to his mom. Yes, I'm a mom who still calls other moms to see if they really are doing what they say. He called me, after his friends and him walked miles to this McDonalds.,then he didn't know the address, just the street. Well there's 3 McDonalds on this street. After going and looking at the first one, that's when her temper tantrums started. So I'm not defending her at all, I'm just saying she panics easily. Still I feel very, very bad about what happened. I made the wrong decision. This won't EVER happen again.
Second, KE, I am an extremely emotional person (like you haven't noticed by now!) not an excuse, but since my family fell apart I cry, panick, obsess and worry my brain off. Maybe I've been a worrier my whole life. So I think that a majority of my decisions are based on how emotional I am at the moment. And lately, I have been very emotional and stressed.
Third, NAB, What a wonderfully thought over list of 12 things for self care, however, I may only follow 1-2 of the suggestions, which is sad. I will work very hard on this list, especially the last 6-12 suggestions. I can see by this list, where I am making mistakes and becoming overly emotional and afraid to let go of my child and the way I treat myself. This list is wise and I will write them down and keep it with me. Thank you, NAB, I needed to see this.
There's no fourth, except that I thank God for SR. A family of strangers who care about me because they want to, no other reason. I smiled at that being said.