sevenofnine

I was reading another thread and atalose was talking about how important her (sorry if I have gender wrong, I am assuming here) need for NC to stay strong and it rung a bell for me and I almost hijacked the thread, but am thinking this is more of a question or thought about me.

For me the face to face thing is today's big deal. I got texts from STBAH saying he wants to hang out. Not as partners, but just as parents, do stuff with the kids together. He thinks we should be doing this every week or two. But I'm not at all into hanging out. When he called today, he got all tears and wobble voice on the phone apologizing, and I felt a twinge in my heart, and I worry that if I let him be around me, and we were able to hang out and enjoy each others company, then I would fall into thinking about all the good things we share, how much "easier" (eye roll) it would be, that its 'better for the kids', maybe just feeling guilty on a personal level and wanting to support him....

all of that would be bad. Its not that I think I would fall in love. I never really did fall back in love after his last relapse a year and half ago-- I had told him straight up that I wasnt' there yet and if he wanted to win me back he'd have to face the risk it wouldn't work, and be on board to try anyway, and I told him it would take at least a year for me to start feeling at all secure again adn that love could only really come after that security... (he claimed to agree to that, but was often resentful that I wasn't affectionate enough in that year so I don't really think he got it through his head). The me not loving him anymore (at least not romantically) thing is really the biggest reason I have been not hurt more by this relapse, and almost thankful for the final excuse to end it. So its not that I think I will be swept away by his charisma or anything, I'm just not sure what he is suggesting is healthy.

It also makes me wonder what he thinks is going on here, makes me think he is assuming this will be like the other ten times... why wouldn't he, I have taught him well that he can treat my trust like dirt and I'll still be here, so this new leaf of mine, to actually permanently end things is probably unexpected. I taught him that my word wasn't reliable either I guess. But the thing was, when I let him back in last time, I wasn't promising him that I would leave him if he did it again. unlike the past, this wasn't me making a manipulation or threat to punish him. This was a promise to MYSELF.

I don't really think its normal for divorced couples to hang out every week. Even the ones I know who manage to get along only hang out on holidays, and only a bit even then.

But at the same time, my kids would probably love it to spend some time with both of us regularly. And we are all of us in this world free to make up our own rules about what we think is 'normal'. Its not like being around him makes me want to cut myself or throw myself in his arms. Its more that I just was having a bad time when he was with my parents and I for thanksgiving supper. I just am more happy to be spending time alone with my kids, and not dealing with him Am I being selfish to want mostly NC? Am I avoiding him because I'm not dealing with things? or is this a good kind of avoidance?
how can I tell?

I do know its driving him nuts that I put up halloween decorations, took the kids bike riding, shopped for and worked on halloween costumes without him. but what did he think divorce was going to look like? like I wouldn't do things without him? I'm doing this stuff because thats what is making my kids happy, thats what is keeping things normal for them so everything isn't so disrupted.

I think I'm doing the right thing by avoiding him as much as I can. And I don't really think I owe him any long phone conversations or heart to hearts (although that's another thing he is trying to guilt me about). I can kind of see this as his codependency manipulating me, his own insecurity lashing out at me to make all of this my fault.

but I'm worried that i'm denying my kids something and being selfish. I don't really want to do a formal therapist mediation situation where we talk things over and make amends or work out some schedule for hanging out together, or even to find closure. I just want to move on. without him. Is that ok?

After seeing how hard my stepsons b-mom made it on him with her animosity (well, hatred really) of my STBAH, and that more than hurt his dad and I much much less than it hurt my stepson, I know I have to accept him in my life as a co-parent to my children, but is it bad of me to not want to actually co-parent in each other's company?

PhotoArtist

SevenofNine,

I totally understand how you are feeling. I have a lot to share with you on this, but I am so exhausted that I m falling asleep while typing. Will share some thoughts tomorrow. Just wanted you to know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.

Hang in there. I'll be in touch

Twofish

Hi Seven, I'm not divorced, but I don't live with my husband either. He moved out for job reasons 2 yrs ago. We have 3 children. I feel divorced, he comes home to see the kids every 2 weeks, does things with them, not me, or as a "family". Truthfully I like this arrangement, it was hard at first, but now that I'm used to it, I like being the boss. If you want and need to be with him again, this might be something to speak to your lawyer about. If you let him come around at will, he might stay and you might not want that. Think hard, do you love him enough to start dating him and spending more time with him? This is about you and what you need. Divorce is divorce, that being said, many people do remarry their ex husbands. Just my opinion, something to think about. Take care, TF

PhotoArtist

SevenofNine,

From what I have read, it seems like you aren't ready for face-to-face contact. And that is perfectly fine. Don't feel like you have to see him, it's your choice, and if you aren't comfortable with face-to-face contact then don't do it. Another SR member reminded me of this yesterday (didn't read the post until after I saw my husband), and she was right. If I wasn't ready to see him in person, I shouldn't have had to do it. And I wasn't ready, but I went anyway, and it turned out to be a disaster.

If your children miss him and really want to see him, is there any way you can set up a visitation with someone you really trust supervising him and the kids? It doesn't have to be a family member, could be a good friend who is willing to help you out in this matter. Or a couple that you trust, that may be even better so there are two adults there. And remember, it's okay to ask for help. Friends help each other out.

But you are correct, it isn't ideal for ex-spouses to just "hang out" on a weekly basis, even if they have children together. If you are going to spend that much time together, what's the point of getting a divorce? You don't want to be in a relationship with him anymore, so spending time with him is only going to hurt YOU. Who cares if that is what HE wants. You need to do what is best for you, and face-to-face contact does not seem to be the best idea. And in all honesty, I think he wants to see you so he can weasel his way back into your life. Maybe I am wrong, but I know that when my husband wants to get inside my head, he wants to talk in person. He knows I let my guard down when I see him. He tried to do it yesterday during our therapy session. Asked the therapist if he could talk to me alone, and I said "no, I am following her instructions and you should do the same." He had every intention of manipulating me when the therapist left the room, so I didn't allow her to leave.

The simple truth is that addicts are manipulative. If you feel like he is trying to manipulate you when he contacts you by phone, you don't have to talk to him. it's your choice. Protect yourself. If you don't want to be in a relationship with him, then make that clear to him and do what you have to do in order to keep it that way, even if it means cutting him off completely.

I hope this helps in some way. Keep us posted on how things are going.

Stay strong, and keep your boundaries in place!

KeepinItReal

I'm on my fourth chance. Maybe things change, maybe they don't. It sounds like he's realizing he's REALLY losing you. So sad for him that he didn't make the right choice with all of the chances you gave him.
I think you know what is best for you. Your deciding weather your willing to dance with him again... maybe doubting your own instincts and letting him let you believe it's best for the kids. Should the kids have hope mommy and daddy are getting back together??
If you really do not want to do this.. maybe think up some reasons why hanging out together will NOT help the kids. Like, a pros and cons list.
Good luck. I know this is tough stuff.

sevenofnine

thanks for the replies. I'm still trying to think this through and hearing what you are sharing helps. I think I am leaning toward what keepinitreal said, that I know what is right for me, but I'm just having trouble sticking to it. I have had a few major flare-up days of my chronic pain, one so bad that kids got mini-pizzas for supper, no bath and almost no bookreading at bedtime, and I was stretched. But maybe it was more the pain bothering me, causing the emotional turmoil to seem worse than it is, because after taking extra meds and a nights sleep, I woke up glad to still be alone.
It was hard hearing how sad AH sounded when he was on the phone and realizing that he actually is losing me for good this time. But although it twinged in my heart, and it makes me sad for the pain of my partner, I am pretty resolved that the partnership isn't good for me. So when he is trying to scare me with 'well, we will have to clean the basement, and I'll have to get some of my camping gear and stuff, and we will have to get the house ready to sell etc' it sounds like an empty threat. I will sell the house when I choose (in my name, and I'll buy him out of it if divorce orders required me to fork over his half) and for gods sake, I was going to clean the basement anyways, because yuck, I have higher cleanliness standards and procrastinate less than him.

I guess I just needed to hear that its not weird for me to not want to hang out weekly. I was wondering if that would qualify as me 'just being difficult' and that is what I want to avoid. I think it isn't so much the divorce that hurts kids, but all the hurt that gets launched back and forth with them in the middle, receiving the lions share. I don't want to be that kind of divorcee, just bitter and making life harder out of immaturity, and I do want to be a functional co-parent, to try to get my kids grown up as best as possible.

photoartist- STBXAH is sober again, as far as I know- my dad is the one bringing the kids to his place so I don't see him for drop offs (a big blessing in my books). Right now the kids are there tuesday and thursday night, and maybe saturday nights. To tell the truth, thats more time off than I have had in the seven years since my daughter was born, and its AMAZING!!! I love having my house to myself, just me and my dogs. And I am getting used to all the housework, taking the garbage out to the curb, and handling all the kids' needs just fine on my own, contrary to my own fears and the warnings from my parents--AH really wasn't the hero singlehandedly keeping everything held together like he thought he was, and I will not crumble without him.

I bet that scares the hell out of him!!!!!

Its probably the alone time that makes me the most sure I am doing the right thing, but I was just feeling worried that I was being selfish with no-contact. But you are probably right that it is just him trying to weasel his way back in again.

I may, however, choose to do some things with STBAH, like holidays, but if he is jealous that I am doing some traditions with my kids without him, he will just have to figure out how to do those traditions for himself without me.