First Step w/ Son. Ned Help on Where to Start
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
Rapid detox can be dangerous as hell. Several.years ago I did a little research and came away finding out about multiple deaths. Unlike some, I'm not against it on a moral basis but am on a health basis. Why risk it for comfort? The trade off isn't worth it to me. That's my two cents.
Most important, no matter what method he tries, he's going to need to to put as much into his recovery as he does his addiction. There will never be a way to hide this from his girlfriend without lying, and most recovery programs from AA to SMART teach the importance of honesty. We are as sick as our secrets and if I'm lying about going to meetings, well you can see where I'm going with this.
Most important, no matter what method he tries, he's going to need to to put as much into his recovery as he does his addiction. There will never be a way to hide this from his girlfriend without lying, and most recovery programs from AA to SMART teach the importance of honesty. We are as sick as our secrets and if I'm lying about going to meetings, well you can see where I'm going with this.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 598
My son was in rehab not detoxing at home and it got very uncomfortable for him. He talked to us over the phone about how he needed to see a doctor. He wasn't sleeping in addition to all the other painful aspects of withdrawal. My husband and I had no idea what was best for our son but we did have his rehab counselor to talk to. I spoke to the counselor and he assured me that all was proceeding well. It is never easy for the addict. I am so glad our son was far away from us--that we were not able to enable him in any way. After three weeks, our son began to feel much better. My concern with what you and your wife are doing is you will be way in over your heads very rapidly as the withdrawals manifest themselves.
If your son manages to detox at home successfully you can consider a sober living facility for him to live in. That way you don't have to manage his comings and goings. Adult kids don't do so well having their parents telling them what to do. I personally believe having an adult child live at home sets the child up to acting like a teenager. Been there done that! Don't care to repeat it!
If your son manages to detox at home successfully you can consider a sober living facility for him to live in. That way you don't have to manage his comings and goings. Adult kids don't do so well having their parents telling them what to do. I personally believe having an adult child live at home sets the child up to acting like a teenager. Been there done that! Don't care to repeat it!
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
You may want your son to read the the thread about suboxone. My husband starting taking it and it was presented as the "miracle drug" by his doctor. He wasn't serious about recovery and continued to abuse opiates. The suboxone "front" was used to appease me and protect his addiction and use.
Later, when he did get serious, he was scared about the withdrawals and used suboxone but this time he started to attend NA and AA meetings. After he went through a difficult withdrawal from suboxone (he tapered too fast and jumped from 2mg and went through hell) he relapsed. He was not prepared for how loud the drugs would be screaming in his brain.
After a 2-3 week relapse, he went cold turkey, had withdrawals but not nearly as bad. He has struggled but just for today, he is clean. (33-34 days) and still attends daily meetings. (He still has trouble sleeping but lots of exercise and a good diet is helping).
ETA: watching some one you love go through withdrawals is VERY difficult. I will never do it again!! The suboxone withdrawal was far worse.
The most sadistic part of withdrawal is....the only thing that will help temporally and immediately is what got them there in the first place. Time is the real key.
Just wanted to share his experience with you!
Later, when he did get serious, he was scared about the withdrawals and used suboxone but this time he started to attend NA and AA meetings. After he went through a difficult withdrawal from suboxone (he tapered too fast and jumped from 2mg and went through hell) he relapsed. He was not prepared for how loud the drugs would be screaming in his brain.
After a 2-3 week relapse, he went cold turkey, had withdrawals but not nearly as bad. He has struggled but just for today, he is clean. (33-34 days) and still attends daily meetings. (He still has trouble sleeping but lots of exercise and a good diet is helping).
ETA: watching some one you love go through withdrawals is VERY difficult. I will never do it again!! The suboxone withdrawal was far worse.
The most sadistic part of withdrawal is....the only thing that will help temporally and immediately is what got them there in the first place. Time is the real key.
Just wanted to share his experience with you!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MI
Posts: 452
Hi Rich,
Couple thoughts based on your posts regarding the initial meeting you and your wife had with your son, and your subsequent posts. Sounds like the initial conversation went really well, and it is wonderful that he is being so open with you.
Some of the things you said, though, made it sound to me like you are trying to control this too much, which is a losing proposition and may ultimately put him into defiance mode, which will encourage him to use rather than to stop. He sounds like he is in a great place mentally right now, as HE really wants to recover, but you have to let him do it his way or it won't happen. The idea of, "OK, we'll try it your way for 60 days, and if you don't show X amount of improvement, then into inpatient detox you go" is YOU attempting to control his recovery, and that never works. He's 23, not 16 - he needs to make these decisions, and if they don't work for you and your wife, then the two of you need to make decisions (boundaries) based on what's required for YOUR health and happiness.
I'm all for you and your wife being cheerleaders and supporters, for maybe sharing with him information you have learned about recovery, suboxone, whatever, but HE needs to make the decisions about what to do for HIS recovery. Treating him like a prisoner where you're the warden - asking him where he's going, when he'll be back, etc. - is only going to create dissension between you and him, and will not stop him from using if that's what he's going to do.
There is a good chance that this first attempt, limited to outpatient and NA meetings, won't work. You already know that. On the other hand, it might. I read posts in the Substance Abuse forum from opiate addicts all the time who are getting and staying clean without inpatient rehab. I have firmly come to believe that there is no one size fits all when it comes to recovery, and every addict is different. There are probabilities regarding what works and what doesn't, but those aren't certainties for any one addict. Maybe your son will find out that this is a more formidable foe than he thought, and he'll learn something about what he's dealing with if he tries it this way without success. That's OK as long as he keeps trying, maybe deciding inpatient IS best after all. And if he doesn't keep trying, then you and your wife have some decisions to make in terms of what you are willing to live with, but they can only be decisions for YOU. You simply can't force your son into recovery. It doesn't work like that.
I didn't really understand your son's logic that in-patient rehab is bad because if he's locked in a hospital (so to speak), his drug will be calling him. Um - his drug will be calling him regardless, and it is a lot easier to resist the call when you are immersed in a recovery community with no access to your DOC. That's why a stint in in-patient rehab is a great way to jump-start the recovery process - you can get two weeks to a month of "clean time" when it's easy, before you're set loose again in the world to maintain your sobriety through your own efforts. He needs to do it his way, and in-patient rehab is a scary prospect to any addict first time through, but if his out-patient approach doesn't work, you might suggest the inpatient idea again with this in mind.
Lastly, I just wanted to make a comment on suboxone. When my son did outpatient, they sent him to an addiction doctor who believed in suboxone maintenance therapy (i.e., long term use of the drug). Many rehab facilities don't do this anymore - they use it just for detox for a few days, then take them off it - but there are a lot of addiction doctors who do believe in it for maintenance. Cons are - it is addictive and there are lots of people who can't get off it on their own. The withdrawals are arguably worse than a lot of illegal opiate drugs because suboxone has a longer half life, which means longer (if not as severe) withdrawal symptoms - like 10 days or so. Pros are - some people simply can't kick the illegal opiate drug without longer-term suboxone use. It can be hard to kick the drug and the lifestyle when you're dealing with the cravings, and some young people JUST can't do it on their own. They need the relief from cravings for awhile while they change their lives, dump their using friends and dealers, get a strong foothold into recovery, and THEN, when all that is set up, they can quit the subs, knowing full well that they will have to contend with cravings now. I have a young heroin-addict friend (21 years old) who did it that way successfully after many failed attempts, and he swears that he WOULD NOT have been able to get clean with out using suboxone for 10 months. Now he DID go through inpatient rehab to get off the subs at the end - but would do it all again because it was the only way he could get off the opiate roller coaster ride.
Best wishes to you, your wife and your son as you work through all this.
Couple thoughts based on your posts regarding the initial meeting you and your wife had with your son, and your subsequent posts. Sounds like the initial conversation went really well, and it is wonderful that he is being so open with you.
Some of the things you said, though, made it sound to me like you are trying to control this too much, which is a losing proposition and may ultimately put him into defiance mode, which will encourage him to use rather than to stop. He sounds like he is in a great place mentally right now, as HE really wants to recover, but you have to let him do it his way or it won't happen. The idea of, "OK, we'll try it your way for 60 days, and if you don't show X amount of improvement, then into inpatient detox you go" is YOU attempting to control his recovery, and that never works. He's 23, not 16 - he needs to make these decisions, and if they don't work for you and your wife, then the two of you need to make decisions (boundaries) based on what's required for YOUR health and happiness.
I'm all for you and your wife being cheerleaders and supporters, for maybe sharing with him information you have learned about recovery, suboxone, whatever, but HE needs to make the decisions about what to do for HIS recovery. Treating him like a prisoner where you're the warden - asking him where he's going, when he'll be back, etc. - is only going to create dissension between you and him, and will not stop him from using if that's what he's going to do.
There is a good chance that this first attempt, limited to outpatient and NA meetings, won't work. You already know that. On the other hand, it might. I read posts in the Substance Abuse forum from opiate addicts all the time who are getting and staying clean without inpatient rehab. I have firmly come to believe that there is no one size fits all when it comes to recovery, and every addict is different. There are probabilities regarding what works and what doesn't, but those aren't certainties for any one addict. Maybe your son will find out that this is a more formidable foe than he thought, and he'll learn something about what he's dealing with if he tries it this way without success. That's OK as long as he keeps trying, maybe deciding inpatient IS best after all. And if he doesn't keep trying, then you and your wife have some decisions to make in terms of what you are willing to live with, but they can only be decisions for YOU. You simply can't force your son into recovery. It doesn't work like that.
I didn't really understand your son's logic that in-patient rehab is bad because if he's locked in a hospital (so to speak), his drug will be calling him. Um - his drug will be calling him regardless, and it is a lot easier to resist the call when you are immersed in a recovery community with no access to your DOC. That's why a stint in in-patient rehab is a great way to jump-start the recovery process - you can get two weeks to a month of "clean time" when it's easy, before you're set loose again in the world to maintain your sobriety through your own efforts. He needs to do it his way, and in-patient rehab is a scary prospect to any addict first time through, but if his out-patient approach doesn't work, you might suggest the inpatient idea again with this in mind.
Lastly, I just wanted to make a comment on suboxone. When my son did outpatient, they sent him to an addiction doctor who believed in suboxone maintenance therapy (i.e., long term use of the drug). Many rehab facilities don't do this anymore - they use it just for detox for a few days, then take them off it - but there are a lot of addiction doctors who do believe in it for maintenance. Cons are - it is addictive and there are lots of people who can't get off it on their own. The withdrawals are arguably worse than a lot of illegal opiate drugs because suboxone has a longer half life, which means longer (if not as severe) withdrawal symptoms - like 10 days or so. Pros are - some people simply can't kick the illegal opiate drug without longer-term suboxone use. It can be hard to kick the drug and the lifestyle when you're dealing with the cravings, and some young people JUST can't do it on their own. They need the relief from cravings for awhile while they change their lives, dump their using friends and dealers, get a strong foothold into recovery, and THEN, when all that is set up, they can quit the subs, knowing full well that they will have to contend with cravings now. I have a young heroin-addict friend (21 years old) who did it that way successfully after many failed attempts, and he swears that he WOULD NOT have been able to get clean with out using suboxone for 10 months. Now he DID go through inpatient rehab to get off the subs at the end - but would do it all again because it was the only way he could get off the opiate roller coaster ride.
Best wishes to you, your wife and your son as you work through all this.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 324
Rich
Our situations are eerily similiar. I am retired Air Force (88-08) My son is 22 and we have been dealing with this for over 4 years. He started at 17, lost a scholarship, an awesome girl, several good jobs, had legal problems, been on probation twice. etc...
After several difficult years of the same cycle, he chose to live in a very structured SLE (sober living environment) here in Phx for 4 months and now lives with a friend from AA. Even though DOC (drug of choice) was heroin/oxys he prefers the organization and fellowship of AA (instead of NA). He is 1 ½ years clean and I hope it continues. One day at a time.
We paid for his IOP (intensive out-patient) back in 2009 and even though it didn't stick, that's where he learned all his recovery tools and formed some AA bonds. The last time he jumped back on the recovery wagon in Jun 11 he decided to add an SLE to help break the cycle.
I've had to ask him to leave our home 3 times which was painful each time. Each time he would bottom out and we'd take him back if he chose an active recovery plan. That would last 4-6 months. Any signs of relapse and he was asked to leave. Sometimes it took longer than it should to ask him to leave but it got easier mainly because of this forum. I have learned a great deal here. I have learned that I'm a codependent, addicted to my addict.
Even though he is in a good place, I still come here for "maintenance".
My main piece of advice for you would be to bite your tongue as much as possible. Military background is a hindrance is this situation. There is nothing rigid, structured, logical, or on-time about addiction and codependency.
Your best bet is to quickly learn as much as you can about addiction and co-dependency and set some boundaries. That's where rigidity and structure needs to be. My first one had to be “I will not allow active addiction or drug use in my home”. A proper boundary is about you and not directly trying to control someone else.
Anyways, good luck with this very difficult and confusing chapter in your life.
Beavs Dad
Our situations are eerily similiar. I am retired Air Force (88-08) My son is 22 and we have been dealing with this for over 4 years. He started at 17, lost a scholarship, an awesome girl, several good jobs, had legal problems, been on probation twice. etc...
After several difficult years of the same cycle, he chose to live in a very structured SLE (sober living environment) here in Phx for 4 months and now lives with a friend from AA. Even though DOC (drug of choice) was heroin/oxys he prefers the organization and fellowship of AA (instead of NA). He is 1 ½ years clean and I hope it continues. One day at a time.
We paid for his IOP (intensive out-patient) back in 2009 and even though it didn't stick, that's where he learned all his recovery tools and formed some AA bonds. The last time he jumped back on the recovery wagon in Jun 11 he decided to add an SLE to help break the cycle.
I've had to ask him to leave our home 3 times which was painful each time. Each time he would bottom out and we'd take him back if he chose an active recovery plan. That would last 4-6 months. Any signs of relapse and he was asked to leave. Sometimes it took longer than it should to ask him to leave but it got easier mainly because of this forum. I have learned a great deal here. I have learned that I'm a codependent, addicted to my addict.
Even though he is in a good place, I still come here for "maintenance".
My main piece of advice for you would be to bite your tongue as much as possible. Military background is a hindrance is this situation. There is nothing rigid, structured, logical, or on-time about addiction and codependency.
Your best bet is to quickly learn as much as you can about addiction and co-dependency and set some boundaries. That's where rigidity and structure needs to be. My first one had to be “I will not allow active addiction or drug use in my home”. A proper boundary is about you and not directly trying to control someone else.
Anyways, good luck with this very difficult and confusing chapter in your life.
Beavs Dad
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 217
Another mom here of a 25 recovering addict son! His DOC was everything from Marijuana to cocaine to opiates to alcohol - to his final nightmare - Ketamine (better known as Special K.) The most beautiful, talented, hardworking boy...caught up in his own personal hell. (We too were caught up in it and I am sure that I aged alot quicker due to his drug use!) He is currently in an Intensive Outpatient Program and liking it! I was told that there are certain hospitals that do have a detox area....in which case you could bring him there and then immediatly get him into a program. We did, at one point, try the Suboxone method - it worked for a while but then he figured out how to cheat that system too. In the end, he weaned himself off....he said he didnt like the way it made him feel. He would stop and relapse over and over again. I am convinced that the only way for recovery to work is for them to get into some sort of program. I think the more knowledge they learn, the better it gets for them.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
