peaceandgrace

As I progress further into my spirituality and my faith, I continue to wonder about the origins of evil. What is evil? How does it manifest itself?

I have sensed the presence of pure evil in my AS. Once was when he was 19 and I drug him back home after he became psychotic in a hell hole of an apartment in our state Capital.

His psychosis was drug induced, and maybe related to mental illness. Who knows. But, he hugged me that first night he came home and said he had to keep telling the voices in his head to shut up. As he hugged me, he yelled "SHUT UP!" to his voices and his voice was what I call evil. I was chilled to the bone.

I have felt evil in the poisonous words he has emailed me when he is in the deep throes of his addiction. It's as if the evil comes off of the page.

Does anyone know what I am sensing? I've seen his eyes dead and malevolent.

Is this what is meant by the word evil? I know serial killers and rapists are evil, as are governments who commit genocide. That isn't hard to fathom.

But, do y'all believe drugs have the ability to create that evil presence I've felt so very often in my AS?

with compassion,

Peaceandgrace

Kindeyes

Drugs are evil. Addicts are not. Addicts are not bad people needing to get good. They are sick people needing to get well.

I do understand what you are talking about. I'll never forget one morning that I looked into my son's eyes and swore I saw the devil himself. It was frightening. But I've also seen a light so bright in those same eyes. How can such light and such evil reside in the same being?

Drugs are evil.......but i believe our sons are sick.

JMHO.

gentle hugs
ke

peaceandgrace

Yes, Kindeyes. Drugs are evil. And, I don't believe my son, or any addict, is an evil person. They are truly sick. Poisoned by the drugs, which are evil.

I think I'm asking more like: Is evil something above and beyond the chemical malfunction that drugs cause?

Do drugs create an evil presence that resides in an addict's body, replacing the soul? Another alternate evil soul?

My question goes beyond just "drugs are evil." with evil being something wicked bad or harmful.

I think I am defining evil in a spiritual sense.

Or, maybe I'm just flat out not making sense. This weekend has been a roller coaster with my AS losing his car to the title company and facing apt eviction.

with compassion,

Peaceandgrace

Kindeyes

Well addiction is a disease that manifests physically, psychologically and spiritually. I suppose a spiritual deficit could be called evil. But I give that differentiation up to the God of my understanding. The way this disease takes over a person is baffling but I'm slowly learning to look at things with a different perspective. There seems to be a steep and never ending learning curve as it pertains to addiction.......and I'm a slow learner! lol

For instance the anger that I see in my son at times (I do mean some pretty ugly anger!) has always been very difficult for me to deal with. A recovering addict recently explained to me that the anger is an illusion of control. After giving this some thought, I view my son's anger differently now......he's trying to convince himself (and me) that's he's in control when it should be obvious that this is not the case. The control happens though as soon as I react to the anger. At that moment, the illusion is over and I make it real. I'm not sure if that makes sense but it helps me.

I hesitate to use the word evil in conjunction with an addict as a label. Do I believe my son has done some evil things? Yes. But would I label him as evil? No. But I may be misinterpreting your question.

I'm sorry that you are dealing with some tough stuff with your son this week. I do understand how hard it is to watch him deal with the consequences of his drug use. But sometimes those consequences are what brings them closer to the bottom that results in a spiritual awakening.

Walking with you........

gentle hugs
ke

EnglishGarden

I recently read a book recommended to me by my therapist, who is a Jungian analyst. The title is "The War of the Gods in Addiction" and it addresses the issue of evil as related to addiction. The author is David Schoen. It's a slender book and its intended audience is primarily Jungian therapists. But it relates to what you are describing and you may find it helpful. The author is a substance abuse counselor as well as a Jungian analyst. He incorporated the experience of recovering addicts, other substance abuse counselors, and the writings of many Jungian therapists as well in his research. He also includes a profound correspondence between Bill W. and Carl Jung on this issue.

It certainly did cement my feelings of powerlessness over addiction.

sojourner

Yes Peaceandgrace: I well remember ex-husband's angry eyes boring into me in the midst of a cocaine high. I saw evil in those eyes. Those eyes were not his eyes alone but carried in them another force. I was scared to death.

My perspective on this is that if the solution is found in the spiritual (as in the 12 Steps) then the problem originated in the spiritual. Drugs/alcohol shut down the parts of the brain that make it easy for evil to move in. Evil is an entity. Our Higher Power is the hound of heaven in rescuing our beloved addicts from this situation.

That is my perspective. Take what you find helpful and leave the rest.

Anaya

Hello, peaceandgrace.

I don't know about the alternate evil soul, but at the times my son experienced drug-induced mental changes, his demeanor, actions, eyes - chilling and, yes, I believe might make one wonder what might be "residing" inside.

I truly believe he doesn't remember (or maybe just doesn't want to remember) when we've discussed the past and the extreme behaviors.

Anyone that has not seen my son in this state would probably never believe that the nice, polite, happy-go-lucky guy ever behaved this way; would probably tell me I'm a few bricks short of a load.

kmangel

I think evil is good gone bad. Drugs can be useful, very helpful, when properly prescribed and adhered to by the patient in appropriate ways--but can turn ugly and dangerous when used inappropriately. It's not the drug that is evil. Just like with all other addictions-- something starts out innocently but then becomes harmful. With other addictions (gambling, work, shopping, etc.) there is not a chemical changing the person's mind and body as well. Addiction to drugs is the closest thing to demon possession that the Bible speaks about. It allows evil in to dominate the person's mind, body and spirit. All addictions are a spiritual illness, I believe, but chemical addictions the worst of all addictions.

peaceandgrace

Thank you all for your responses.

Kindeyes, after a good night's sleep, I reread my post and realize my question isn't quite clear.

Maybe a better analogy would be the idea of the drug manifesting itself as an evil presence that resides inside the addict, making itself at home in the addict's true soul.

This sounds like the movie Alien. The alien (the drug) seeds itself in the human host body. This presence is evil and it takes over the beautiful souls that I truly believe all life has.

Anger as way of projecting the illusion of control is something I have come to understand in my AS. His rages are powerful and they always seem to have something to do with telling me/estranged wife/father that he has it together and we just don't get it/are wrong.

EnglishGarden, I am going to get the book your therapist recommended.

Sojourner, I do believe that the cure for addiction is spiritual as in the 12 steps.
And, you simplified my question: evil moving in as an entity.

Evil is an entity. Our Higher Power is the hound of heaven in rescuing our beloved addicts from this situation.

Seeing/hearing an evil presence in my son's eyes and voice has been the saddest most chilling thing I have experienced. I do NOT believe he is evil. He was the most spiritual sweetest little boy.

So, maybe this is his spiritual battle to be hard fought. I really do need to step way back.

with compassion,

Peaceandgrace.

EnglishGarden

As a footnote to sojourner and peaceandgrace,

The conclusion of the book I mentioned is that the only solution is through the Twelve Steps. Carl Jung was the first to recognize this. Bill W. formed an association of alcoholics around this. The solution to the spiritual, emotional, and physical "death sentence" (using the author's words) of addiction is the Twelve Steps.

laurie6781

I have come to realize through my own research and working with others
in recovery that ALL humans have good and evil in them. However, with
most, during their formative years, they are 'civilized' so to speak and
learn how to interact with others, work, etc

Now when alcohol and/or drugs are thrown into the scenario, a chemical
is introduced to the person's body, a chemical that reduces the person's
ability to 'think and act' rationally. Inhibitions are removed, and then
one can see the 'evil' side of a human being.

Remember, it has only been 35,000 years, a nano second really in the
over all age of this planet, that man started walking upright and was
still very barbaric and animal like and had to FIGHT for their food and
everything.

Once of the worst places in my brain that I managed to fry the path
ways was in the front of my brain, the lobal something or other, where
man's choices, reasoning, conscientious, etc are. Yes, I grew new path-
ways over the years, but any one who knows me has heard me say
many many times:

"When I arrived at AA, I was an ANIMAL, there was not one shred of
human decency left, and those folks in AA re-civilized me from scratch."

This is very true for me. I had lived the last 1 1/2 years of my drinking
and using on the streets of Hollyweird, where it really was an attitude
of "kill or be killed". It was SURVIVAL in its rawest form. I had to
re learn how to function in society. As I stayed sober and clean and
worked on my recovery, the 'DEADNESS and FLATNESS' left my eyes,
there was life in them again and they eventually started to 'sparkle.'

Now there have been occurrences in my recovery years in the past,
when that 'stranger' has again been brought to the forefront, by an
act or action against one of my grandchildren or fur kids, when friends
have told me that something happens to me ......................... my
body posture changes, my words change, my eye go totally FLAT and
DEAD and I become someone that really frightens them. I can tell
you that when that has happened to me and I look at it in hindsight,
that I became very very ANGRY. I hear a ROAR in my ears, and I
literally see a RED haze. It is a RAGE that I have only felt 8 times in
31+ years of recovery, pure unadulterated RAGE and it is AWFUL! I
have not felt that now in the 14 years.

So, all the above, lol to say I believe that evil is in all of us, it is just
that when an A is in their practicing mode is when the Evil can be seen
by others.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

LoveMeNow

When my husband was in active addiction, he was living in a hotel, an expensive one at that. (how obvious now, he knew I would let him come home eventually).

Anyway, one day I went there to talk to him. I can not explain the evil presence in that room but it was there! My husband was talking and very emotional and all I could think was - I have to get out of here! I kept looking at the door for my escape route.

When I left, my mind was so confused. I almost felt high! It was indescribable. I knew I would never step back in that room and I never did. It's a memory I will never forget and its something I NEVER want to experience again.

ETA: I did not think he was acting evil, but I knew he was battling a demon. He was scared and looked defeated. And that room (and him) was filled with the effects of something very demonic.

LoveMeNow

I have not only seen it, but I have lived it.

IMO, when evil is present, insanity is sure to follow until we surrender to God, get the help we need, and be who God created us to be. He did not give us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power, love and sound mind.

From Today's Daliy Bread -

Prince of Peace, teach me to find in You the calming power of Your presence. Strengthen me today with Your peace, and grant me thestability I need in this turmoil-filled world. Amen.

Peace is more than the absence of conflict; peace is the presence of God.

stairs

Me either, and me too.

It is like demonic possession right out of a bad horror movie. Truly terrifying. Then the person usually doesn't remember a thing about it. And even if things don't get to that horrible place, character traits like dishonesty, selfishness, irresponsibility, lack of self care, etc, overshadow the good character traits of honesty, giving, responsible behavior, care with appearance, etc. And the addict is living in a "hell" of their own making by living by these negative traits...I believe that addiction really is a spiritual malady.

The "devil" on one shoulder and the "angel" on the other, our own free will at work. The key is inside the cell.

Interesting thread, thanks for posting it, peaceandgrace. Great name, too!

peaceandgrace

Wow! What interesting responses to my question.

It seems like we have all "felt" the malevolence of evil either in ourselves while in addiction or in our loved addicts. Once we have felt that presence, it becomes impossible, IMHO, to deny the existence of an evil force in our world.

Since I truly believe all humans have the both good and bad tendencies, the drugs strip away the "civilizing" that our good souls do. This then allows the bad to ferment, eventually leading to an evil presence once addiction progresses. The presence isn't really the person we love/loved, but another "alien evil" force within who has wrestled control over the good human soul.

So, is insanity induced by drugs a spiritual void created by the drugs? That makes a lot of sense to me. It just has to be, to me, more than the chemical ravages the drug creates in the body.

My pastor recommended a slew of books for me to study this morning after I wrote her posing this question. I look forward to researching this further.

with compassion,

Peaceandgrace

lightseeker

there are times that I have experienced behavior and responses in conjunction with addiction (my behavior and the behavior of my ex husband) that have felt like an alien invasion. I think of it as pure evil and it seems like it hops in from "outside". I know that I am not an evil person - nor is my ex husband. But there were times that I felt this force (for lack of a better word) descend into him and it manifested in behaviors/actions/appearances that I would never expect to see in him normally. I also know the incredible visceral response that rallied up inside of me. Addiction is an evil thing....not the people that are affected by it.

But yes, in answer to your question, I do feel like I have seen and experienced evil and it did seem like it was something separate and apart from the man that I loved. And it scared me. A lot.

kmangel

As a Christian, the answer would be the spiritual void exists in all humans until the void is filled with a relationship with God. So, the drugs do not create the void--they merely enhance the void already there.

peaceandgrace

kmangel, an thoughtful distinction. Do you suggest addiction can nestle in when our souls are not filled with God?

Could a strong Christian become an addict then?

I know for myself that once I rekindled my own faith, I stopped drinking. I cannot imagine beginning to drink again. It's as if I could never introduce the poison into my body.

Intriguing questions.

kmangel

Yes, I believe anyone can become addicted. Sin is at everyone's doorstep no matter what our religious affiliation and that's ultimately what addiction is--a sin. It's making something other than God God in our life--which is precisely what addiction does. The addiction becomes the be all and end all of the person's life, pushing God right out of the picture into second place (or third place, or whatever place the person places God).

stairs

I don't consider myself a Christian but I agree with this. The void is made bigger by our using chemical relief rather than prayer or meditation and right living. We create an illusion of being disconnected from The Light and use more substances to reconnect while only getting farther away. Or perhaps it is not an illusion at all but the truth that our using drugs or alcohol or both does separate us from God. Then when we discontinue substance abuse we once again can feel a connection to God and each other. The void is like a vacuum, cold and airless and without love.