New here..mom of an AS..or is he?
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
I just want to say - I am so sorry for your "situation." Addiction is straight from the pits of HELL. Please continue to educate yourself about it. Keep reading here!! Sadly, there are many (too many) parents of herion addicts that share their experience, strength and hope.
Addiction is a progressive illness whose ends are always the same: jails, institutions, and death! (From NA literature).
Addiction is a progressive illness whose ends are always the same: jails, institutions, and death! (From NA literature).
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
Judy
Welcome to SR......but as others have said.....I'm so sorry for the reason that brings you here.
I am the mother of an addicted son.....meth & heroin.....although meth is the DOC. Glad to hear that you are going to attend Nar-Anon or Al-Anon. Those rooms have been lifesavers for me. We've been dealing with our son's addiction since he was 15-16 years old. Progressed from drinking & pot to where it is now (he's currently 31).
Stick around. Post. Read. There is a lot of collective wisdom here. We'll walk with you.
gentle hugs
ke
Welcome to SR......but as others have said.....I'm so sorry for the reason that brings you here.
I am the mother of an addicted son.....meth & heroin.....although meth is the DOC. Glad to hear that you are going to attend Nar-Anon or Al-Anon. Those rooms have been lifesavers for me. We've been dealing with our son's addiction since he was 15-16 years old. Progressed from drinking & pot to where it is now (he's currently 31).
Stick around. Post. Read. There is a lot of collective wisdom here. We'll walk with you.
gentle hugs
ke
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
judy, anything is possible. But most likely you would of seen various signs of heroin use if he started years ago. Falling asleep at dinner table, little pin pupils, lack of physical hygiene ect.... The issue with the klonopin is that it is very dangerous to use heroin & a benzo. The chance of overdose is much higher. Addicts who turn to methadone to get off heroin frequently take a benzo to get a similar high.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
Well, if you took away the car and the motorcycle he certainly would feel the consequences of his choices, and that is often the only thing that will drive them into recovery. If he believes he can manipulate you with threats of rage...then he will keep using that tactic to get what he wants....and the rage will escalate, right? Just keep calling the cops when needed and he will eventually stop that nonsense. He can get a bicycle or walk to work....or save money and buy his own car. LOTS of options!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Justfor1 
judy, anything is possible. But most likely you would of seen various signs of heroin use if he started years ago. Falling asleep at dinner table, little pin pupils, lack of physical hygiene ect.... The issue with the klonopin is that it is very dangerous to use heroin & a benzo. The chance of overdose is much higher. Addicts who turn to methadone to get off heroin frequently take a benzo to get a similar high.
I used to beg him to shower, brush his teeth, WAKE UP! He could be semi-comatose and the house would be falling down around him, he would never know..but this has all been happening since he was so young!
I think there are underlying issues here (obviously) depression..but what came first..the depression or the drug use.. I just don't know anymore.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 18
One more question...We as a family are not religious.. well I should say I am not, my husband is..anyway, are there are non-traditional programs or groups other than ar-anon? Or rehab facilities that are not 12 step?
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 267
Think about how you would feel if he killed someone with the car.
An active addict should not be driving a car. A car also gives him a place to live off the street. You need to do what you are comfortable with, but I would pull the car- and the motorcycle. Let him know that your support is contingent on him choosing recovery.
An active addict should not be driving a car. A car also gives him a place to live off the street. You need to do what you are comfortable with, but I would pull the car- and the motorcycle. Let him know that your support is contingent on him choosing recovery.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Originally Posted by SundaysChild
Think about how you would feel if he killed someone with the car.
An active addict should not be driving a car. A car also gives him a place to live off the street. You need to do what you are comfortable with, but I would pull the car- and the motorcycle. Let him know that your support is contingent on him choosing recovery.
An active addict should not be driving a car. A car also gives him a place to live off the street. You need to do what you are comfortable with, but I would pull the car- and the motorcycle. Let him know that your support is contingent on him choosing recovery.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MI
Posts: 452
There are other approaches to recovery besides NA and 12-step programs. SR has a secular forum that discusses a bunch of them - Rational Recovery, SMART, Life Ring, SOS, to name a few. But the 12-step approach is the most prevalent and most rehab facilities use that approach. It is successful if one works the program, and you can find AA/NA meetings pretty much everywhere, which is important because especially in early recovery, one needs to work it EVERY DAY.
Note that AA/NA are not necessarily "religious." The NA book has an essay by an atheist explaining how he defined his Higher Power in a way that worked for him. Some people have characterized the power of the AA/NA collective as their "Higher Power."
I'm a believer in the 12-step approach because I think it charts a path towards emotional and spiritual growth that gives the addict a viable alternative for happiness to getting high. I would make it my first choice in a recovery program if I were choosing, because it is the biggest, most successful, and most accessible. The long-term recovery rate for heroin addicts is abysmally low - as in less than 20% - and I'd want to go with the biggest, most successful program first time out in the hope of maximizing the chance of success.
But keep in mind - this is not YOUR recovery, it is your son's. It has been suggested that you might explore legal options to force him into rehab, but the likelihood of that resulting in recovery is slim to none. Rehab has a chance of working only if HE wants recovery. And he's only going to want it if life gets so miserable as an addict that it simply isn't worth the high - in HIS view, not anyone else's.
Note that AA/NA are not necessarily "religious." The NA book has an essay by an atheist explaining how he defined his Higher Power in a way that worked for him. Some people have characterized the power of the AA/NA collective as their "Higher Power."
I'm a believer in the 12-step approach because I think it charts a path towards emotional and spiritual growth that gives the addict a viable alternative for happiness to getting high. I would make it my first choice in a recovery program if I were choosing, because it is the biggest, most successful, and most accessible. The long-term recovery rate for heroin addicts is abysmally low - as in less than 20% - and I'd want to go with the biggest, most successful program first time out in the hope of maximizing the chance of success.
But keep in mind - this is not YOUR recovery, it is your son's. It has been suggested that you might explore legal options to force him into rehab, but the likelihood of that resulting in recovery is slim to none. Rehab has a chance of working only if HE wants recovery. And he's only going to want it if life gets so miserable as an addict that it simply isn't worth the high - in HIS view, not anyone else's.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 74
Hi Judyw. Sorry to hear about your son. Just wanted to say you are not alone with seeing poor hygene, etc for years and not being able to tell if he that is a sign that he is using. I am still there too after 5 years of watching my son's disease. I agree that the car and motorcycle should not be paid for or insured by you. Someone in a meeting said there will always be things we don't know or don't catch. As you get stronger and keep learning, I guess you just try to set boundaries you are comfortable with. I think even if he is clean, it's okay for him to pay for his own insurance. My AS pays for his cell phone since he was 19. Even in recovery, I feel he has to gradually start supporting himself.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 72
Judy......I am so sorry for what your family is going through. You have raised so many questions that my parents and myself have had about my addicted brother. My brother started using pot at 17 and since then has used cocaine, pain killers, and most recently bath salts. He hid his addiction from us for 20 years, and it only came to light with the use of the bath salts, which is a very dangerous drug. Since May we have seen the raging, lying, manipulating, zoning out, enlarged pupils, etc. For all these years I thought he was suffering from depression, but what I was seeing were signs of drug use. I asked the doctor, that last time he was hospitalized, if it could be determined whether the depression or addiction came first. Unfortunately we were told that we would probably never know. My brother has always had a job, albeit he changed them frequently. So it is possible to a "functioning" addict to some extent. At this point, I don't really know that when your son started using is worth worrying about. The point is that he is an addict.
We are hearing many of the same things from my brother that your son has said. "I just need the 28 days in rehab to get through the worst of the cravings." "I can quit when I want to." I worry that he went to rehab for the wrong reasons, but at least he is there and safe for the time being.
My parents have enabled my brother financially for years. They have paid his bills, including his mortgage, which gave my brother an opportunity to continue to be an addict. I have seen many recovering addicts post on SR that they never had a reason to stop using because their loved ones always took care of the addicts needs. I have read many great quotes, but the one that has stuck with me the most is, "Nothing changes if nothing changes." I have encouraged my parents to make the changes necessary to stop the enabling, as I see firsthand the toll that it is taking on both of them.
I wish you and your family the best of luck in this situation. I will keep your son in my prayers.
We are hearing many of the same things from my brother that your son has said. "I just need the 28 days in rehab to get through the worst of the cravings." "I can quit when I want to." I worry that he went to rehab for the wrong reasons, but at least he is there and safe for the time being.
My parents have enabled my brother financially for years. They have paid his bills, including his mortgage, which gave my brother an opportunity to continue to be an addict. I have seen many recovering addicts post on SR that they never had a reason to stop using because their loved ones always took care of the addicts needs. I have read many great quotes, but the one that has stuck with me the most is, "Nothing changes if nothing changes." I have encouraged my parents to make the changes necessary to stop the enabling, as I see firsthand the toll that it is taking on both of them.
I wish you and your family the best of luck in this situation. I will keep your son in my prayers.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
Judy- just to clarify something for you...what your son said about quitting heroin would be like quitting cigarettes...that if he wanted to he would "just quit!!" That is absolutely the biggest load of BS ever.
When my son is "normal" I know he's high ...or at least not 'dope sick' from lack of the drug. Users will do ANYTHING to avoid the extremely uncomfortable/painful symptoms of withdrawal. Feeding a heroin addiction is a 24/7 job and shooting it requires at least $80/day just to feel halfway decent. Snorting it would require even more money. After a certain point, they use the drug just to feel normal....just to be able to function without being horribly dope sick. So....when my son sounds good, I know he's using. When he sounds terrible, cranky, depressed, desperate, and full of excuses, lies, and outrageous stories of why he needs money....I know he's in withdrawal. (He hasn't lived with us for 3 years so I don't even see the worst of it.)
I know my son would give anything if there were an easy way out of this hell hole. Recovery from heroin addiction requires not only the acute detox phase, but the longer term one as well....deep, dark depression that lasts 4-6 months. When my son is in that place he says he'd rather live in the streets looking for his next high than enduring that depression. This is where he stumbles every single time. This is why I am very HAPPY that my son is currently in jail and will be for at least 2 months. Oh, and today is his 22nd birthday.
I am sorry -- I'm not trying to hurt you by slapping you in the face with this reality. My purpose is to educate you (fast) and help you to see what a powerful force you are up against. Any support that you provide will go straight to feed his addiction. Food and shelter are a distant second. His job is only a means for buying drugs. You bet he wants to hang onto it....especially if his boss is using too!!
So, how do you help him?? By not enabling him....not one little bit. He will only reach out for recovery when the pain of using becomes unbearable. For many that day never comes....but it sure as heck won't come if he's got a "soft place to land".
I'm just so sorry.
When my son is "normal" I know he's high ...or at least not 'dope sick' from lack of the drug. Users will do ANYTHING to avoid the extremely uncomfortable/painful symptoms of withdrawal. Feeding a heroin addiction is a 24/7 job and shooting it requires at least $80/day just to feel halfway decent. Snorting it would require even more money. After a certain point, they use the drug just to feel normal....just to be able to function without being horribly dope sick. So....when my son sounds good, I know he's using. When he sounds terrible, cranky, depressed, desperate, and full of excuses, lies, and outrageous stories of why he needs money....I know he's in withdrawal. (He hasn't lived with us for 3 years so I don't even see the worst of it.)
I know my son would give anything if there were an easy way out of this hell hole. Recovery from heroin addiction requires not only the acute detox phase, but the longer term one as well....deep, dark depression that lasts 4-6 months. When my son is in that place he says he'd rather live in the streets looking for his next high than enduring that depression. This is where he stumbles every single time. This is why I am very HAPPY that my son is currently in jail and will be for at least 2 months. Oh, and today is his 22nd birthday.
I am sorry -- I'm not trying to hurt you by slapping you in the face with this reality. My purpose is to educate you (fast) and help you to see what a powerful force you are up against. Any support that you provide will go straight to feed his addiction. Food and shelter are a distant second. His job is only a means for buying drugs. You bet he wants to hang onto it....especially if his boss is using too!!
So, how do you help him?? By not enabling him....not one little bit. He will only reach out for recovery when the pain of using becomes unbearable. For many that day never comes....but it sure as heck won't come if he's got a "soft place to land".
I'm just so sorry.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Al-Anon and Nar-Anon are not religious, they are spiritual programs. You do not have to believe in anything you do not want to believe in. Please don't let the idea of a Higher Power keep you from going to Al/Nar-Anon. They are there to support you and help you learn a whole new set of tools so that you can help yourself in this horrible situation.
I'd like to say, please educate yourself as much as possible about drug addiction and about your son's Drug of Choice (DOC). There are many good resources of information you can find from doing a Google search. Knowledge is power and the more you know, the better you can manage this insanity that has entered your life and is now disrupting your family.
Also, I don't know the laws of the state you live in but having your name on his vehicle makes you personally liable for whatever he does with that vehicle. If he has an accident and kills someone, you could be sued. I am not a lawyer but if you allow a known heroin user to drive what would be legally your car (if it's in your name), someone who has been hurt by his driving may be able to show that you were negligent. I was just advised this yesterday by an insurance attorney friend who defends people in these very situations. Please take the steps you need to take to protect yourself and your family from this.
I'd like to say, please educate yourself as much as possible about drug addiction and about your son's Drug of Choice (DOC). There are many good resources of information you can find from doing a Google search. Knowledge is power and the more you know, the better you can manage this insanity that has entered your life and is now disrupting your family.
Also, I don't know the laws of the state you live in but having your name on his vehicle makes you personally liable for whatever he does with that vehicle. If he has an accident and kills someone, you could be sued. I am not a lawyer but if you allow a known heroin user to drive what would be legally your car (if it's in your name), someone who has been hurt by his driving may be able to show that you were negligent. I was just advised this yesterday by an insurance attorney friend who defends people in these very situations. Please take the steps you need to take to protect yourself and your family from this.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 18
Thank you all again..I NEED to hear the brutal facts..no matter how harsh they are. I am learning so much from you all so please do not be afraid to hurt my feelings in any way whatsoever..keep the cold hard facts comin'...it's making me stronger.
As far as the insurance..ugghhhh yeah..had I known he was this far gone he would've never been put on our insurance in the first place..now it will be almost impossible to get him off. Here in NJ once a child is ON your insurance the ONLY way to get them off is for HIM to show that he has His OWN insurance or that he does not live here which would require him to show some type of LEGAL rental agreement, which he is unable to do.. a I cannot just "take him off"...the insurance company will NOT do that..it is out of my control. so the only option I have is to take the car...and the motorcycle (he hardly uses that anyway) Of course then that is his perfect excuse to quit his job...which will lead him to hit rock bottom..which is what I am hearing for everyone is really the only thing that "might" help him at this point...
ALOT to think about....
thank you all!!!
As far as the insurance..ugghhhh yeah..had I known he was this far gone he would've never been put on our insurance in the first place..now it will be almost impossible to get him off. Here in NJ once a child is ON your insurance the ONLY way to get them off is for HIM to show that he has His OWN insurance or that he does not live here which would require him to show some type of LEGAL rental agreement, which he is unable to do.. a I cannot just "take him off"...the insurance company will NOT do that..it is out of my control. so the only option I have is to take the car...and the motorcycle (he hardly uses that anyway) Of course then that is his perfect excuse to quit his job...which will lead him to hit rock bottom..which is what I am hearing for everyone is really the only thing that "might" help him at this point...
ALOT to think about....
thank you all!!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 18
Oh and here in NJ I am hearing that it cost around $10 for a "hit" of heroin..of course I have NO clue how much he is taking at this point.
Another thing that someone said ... which I have thought too... and is interesting..which came first, the depression or the drugs?? hmmm..not that it matters I guess at this point
Another thing that someone said ... which I have thought too... and is interesting..which came first, the depression or the drugs?? hmmm..not that it matters I guess at this point
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
Originally Posted by LoveMeNot
tjp?? I am curious as to why your son (or an recovery addict) is not put on an anti depressant to help stabilize them?
This is probably why heroin addicts like my son are put on suboxone or methodone...it's really their only shot. Didn't work for my AS....not yet anyway.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
