Chris999

Hello all, my boyfriend whom I have been living with for 3 years is a former Meth user. Apparantly he read some material on the Internet saying that Meth was not dangerous for people and all the bad things about it were hype. He then did Meth for 5 years or so on a regular basis. He claimed it helped him with his work.

I came into the picture 3 and a half years ago. He had not used for 5 and a half years at that point. We dated long distance for 6 months and then he moved into my place in NY.

After he moved in, I started noticing OCD symptoms in him. He had to have things a certain way or he would get really upset, blow up, cry, etc. He gets overheated, hyperventilates, has anxiety attacks and more when he is upset about something that goes against his "rules". He had anxiety about germs a little bit but it was not an overwhelming behavior. But he gets terrified if I move behind him or move in a way that he percieves is "wrong". He will sweat, breathe hard, etc. and be terrified. More than that, nothing seems to please him and he is almost always depressed. Normal life events that one would think he would be ecstatic about or at least happy, do not phase him. He is always sad, always complaining, always thinking something terrible. He has IBS frequently and is always getting upset about something and running to the bathroom a few minutes later.

I never connected this with Meth until much later, when I realized that Meth creates OCD in users.

My question is: Could his symptoms still be occuring now, 9 years after Meth use, and what can we do about it? Are there groups for former Meth users, or any type of treatment specially for them? We are in NYC, any advice woudl be greatly appreciated.

YearForMe

My daughter is a meth addict...currently in recovery (again)......
She has never exhibited any ocd type behavior.

Additionally, i know quite a few recovering meth addicts and none of them have any ocd that i have ever noticed.

Drugs magnify things that were already there.
I think it is more likely that he had these behaviors prior to meth use.

Luckily...there is treatment available...if he is willing to seek it.
Kci.org is another message board for meth. You might try posting there too.

Taking5

Is it possible that her is still using?

interrupted

A close family member of mine was an addicted meth user for a long time (10+ years) and she has undergone permanent changes as a result. She's really fidgety, and she'll lean back and forth or lean over to the side a lot while sitting and talking. It sort of looks like you're talking with a special needs child who can't keep still. She is also always picking at her hands. I know these are also symptoms of active use, but she is no longer using - I think maybe the behaviors are just sort of stuck in there or something. Additionally, she seems to have absolutely zero concept of anyone else having their own priorities or needs, her immediate desires are the only thing on her radar, and she doesn't seem to realize that everyone around her has been growing and changing for the last 15 years while she was stuck in addiction. Hanging around her is very uncomfortable, so I avoid doing so.

I originally started this post to say that there absolutely can be permanent changes with long term meth abuse, but as I type this out it makes me worry that she could have been relapsing or something and I just didn't even realize it. Is it possible that your boyfriend relapsed?

outtolunch

I recently came across this gem:
Obsessive-compulsive disorder is the disease called addiction.

There is no we in recovery from anything. He might benefit from some serious time with mental health professionals if he is ready to change. That's up to him.

Chris999

Hi guys, thank you for your prompt responses.

I do not believe he could be relapsing. We live a very close life, and I would know if he was using again. He really isn't. But he has some very meth-like behaviors. Apparantly he enjoyed meth very much and has an erroneous belief that it helps you focus, etc so he doesn't think that acting with meth behaviors is bad or that other people would or should be annoyed by it.

He picks his skin too, I will find bruises on his arms and legs from him picking the follicles out. But it's not excessive to the point where he has scabs or anything. But knowing his history I get upset when I find the bruises.

I sometimes call him Mr. Spock because he speaks like he has no emotion lots of the time, and he doesn't find pleasure in things like I do. It has become very annoying. And there is all the OCD stuff, which I'm sure couldn't be HELPED by his former Meth use.

He has a friend who did the Meth with him during that timeperiod, and that guy is permanantly stuck on "talk" mode. He can't stop delivering a monologue to anyone who will listen and he doesn't take brakes to listen to the other person. It's very annoyng and offputting, and he is getting kicked out of his apt right now because he loses jobs because of it and can't make enough $ to pay his bills. I think he has a permanent disability from the meth use and needs help and treatment. This is someone who hung out with my bf back then.

My bf also has a problem finding work. He hates asking for anything from anyone and tries to only speak to people he already knows- that's a recipie for disaster. He has his own business but it's not doing well, and I suspect it's because he can't branch out and think of new ideas for the business, he tries to operate it the same way he did 10-15 years ago. He has patterns that he easily gets stuck in and can't get out. He wants to do the same things, go to the same places, eat at the same restaurants, and so forth- ALL THE TIME. I can't help but think that these are the things that he did when he was a meth user and now he's stuck in those grooves.

I know that he has to want recovery in order to get it and it can't be "we". But I am the closest one to him, and I don't believe he's actually capable of finding a recovery on his own. He was homeless for a year after his business crashed, he ended up living in his mom's guest house down south for a year after that. He tried for a year to get a job down there, no luck. She forced him to sign up for public assistance. She also told him he HAD to take Zoloft or move out. Some doctor down there prescribed it for him. He did very poorly on it and had tons of side effects. When we started dating long distance he couldn't go anywhere because of the side effects and was having a very hard time. I had known him before all this happened to him and wanted to help him get back to health. After 6 months of long distance I moved him up to my place and helped him get off the Zoloft. He restarted his business which did ok at first but then took a dive, where it's been for the past year and a half. He wont' find other work, he just continues to try to do his business like he's stuck on repeat. I earn most of the money. His mom sends him a little bit but it's not enough. It's got to the point now where I'm really upset that he won't just get an average job to just cover the bills. He acts like he "can't". But even his friend, the guy who is really wacked from the meth use, works a regular job and at least brings in 300-400 per week. So why can't he do that? He has tons of OCD symptoms and fears, freaks out at the least change in his schedule or the house. I'm getting to the end of my rope with this. I told him he HAS to seek counseling or move back to his mom's. He has been "unable" to find a counselor and does not believe that he has OCD even though he freaks out almost every day. He self-diagnosed himself with "General Anxiety Disorder" and "stress" and decided that drinking Valerian tea is enough. I'm telling him that it's not enough and he WILL have to leave if he doesn't get treatment or a group. It has been extremely hard to live with his symptoms and I'm so stressed that if something does not change he will have to leave.

His mom acted like I was taking a huge burden off of her btw and was glad that he was moving in with me. If she finds out that he is coming back she will probably be upset. She sent him to some doctors down there but he masked his symptoms and nobody got to the bottom of what was wrong, they just doled out Zoloft. She had him living in the guest house so she did not see all the freaking out, ocd behaviors, etc. I am probably the only person who knows the full extent of this, which is why I am pushing him to get help. I know that I can't control him, that he was messed up before I met him and I didn't make him that way and it's not my responsibility to fix it, but I am doing the humane thing and at least trying to get him some help before sending him back to his mom's untreated, so please don't say I'm enabling ok? Thanks.

cangel2

This sounds like a difficult and confusing situation; I am sorry you are having to deal with it. It seems like he doesn't acknowledge there is a problem and he thinks that he can manage what is going on without any help. Addict or non-addict - it is almost impossible and certainly frustrating to try to help someone when they don't want it.

Probably easier for you to focus on what you need and what will work for you. Seems you have started thinking in those terms.

As for organizations he could go to some NA meetings. I am sure there are other people recovering from Meth there who he could talk to and get advice from. You might benefit from Nar-Anon or Al-Anon as well.

I do however need to say that his behavior reminds me of my son's behavior when he was using. A lot of what you have described is typical of someone on Meth. Sure hope I am wrong about that!

interrupted

This is a difficult situation because he doesn't sound like he wants to get help at all. I have been diagnosed OCD and I believe it developed in response to growing up as the child of two addicted parents. Among a host of other things, I would come unglued if things didn't go exactly as I planned them, and I would fall into very specific routines, variation from which would make me extremely anxious. I still struggle with this, but I have tools to help me recognize my triggers and practice healthier responses.

Like your boyfriend, I initially ran into therapists that wanted to just solve the problem with medication, so I kept trying until I found someone who would help me work through things holistically. But that's just it: *I* kept trying. *I* wanted help. *I* was willing to put in a lot of work and effort to understand what was happening with me and my feelings. There is simply no way that anyone else would have been able to do this for me. In that sense, whether it's mental illness, addiction, or just plain bad attitude, recovery is still an inside job.

outtolunch

Regardless of his past, he is mentally ill and likely getting worse. This is no reflection on you, other than your desire to fix him.

Attempts to control other people usually lead to mutual resentments and do not work.

Enough about him. Is this how you want to live your life?

BeavsDad

Wow.
Imagine how bad it would be if you were actually enabling him.

YearForMe

I totally agree with Cynical One.

Freedom1990

Agreed and my DOC was meth during my active using years.

Chris999

He sleeps at least 8 hours a night, I sleep next to him so I know. Not only that, he has a voracious appetite and has gained weight, a little potbelly. When he was using he was rail-thin. He has weight on his face, his belly.

I know that some users eat and sleep when they are on it. But I'm going with my gut. I've seen people who are active users (unfortunately) and this guy does not strike me as one. However, I do think he retains some of the behaviors. There is such a thing as a "dry drunk", and this guy could be someone who retains behaviors of meth.

The arm picking. The hypersensitivity. The hyperactivity. The lack of emotion- chilly feeling in the emotional pallate he puts out. The wanting to repeat things again and again that he knows and likes- EVERY DAY, EVERY WEEK. I do believe he has OCD and it was exacerbated by the 5 year stint of meth use.

I could be wrong, but this is what I truly believe. Is there a home meth test kit? I've seen the test kits for marijuanna and cocaine at Rite-Aid. If there is one for Meth I will surely use it.

This sucks BTW.

Freedom1990

Meth or not, are these the behaviors and attitudes of someone you want to spend the rest of your life with? Just some food for thought.

CanfixONLYme

Hi Chris999 - I feel sad that you are in a place of desperation and dispair. Your addictive loved one does sound ill - regardless of drug or chemical imbalance issues - we all have it in us to seek out our own recovery and help to alleviate our own suffering.

It sounds as though you and his mum have bent over backwards to help him but the sad fact is that if he isnt in a place to receive it, all you are going to do is make yourself sick.

Trust me when I say I know what im talking about. My ah just passed away a week ago at the age of 38 (as of this oct). I spent almost 4.5 years trying to "help" him with his bipolar and substance abuse issues... And almost ended my life in the process ;(

His situation wasn't hopeless but it was he (not me, not his family etc) who needed to dig deep and find that strength and desire for recovery. Alas, the struggle was too great for him and now he's gone forever. Nothing I possibly could have done or said would have changed anything... believe me - I tried!!

Keep posting here, venting, reading others stories and in time, you will find your own path of recovery and boundaries. No one will be able to give you a magic pill here to make it all go away or get him better... just know you are not alone in your struggle.

Big hugs

Chris999

Hi guys, thank you so much for your good words. The internet is such an amazing resource.

I checked out the kci boards and sure enough, there are a lot of other women in my position- one even had my EXACT situation, she had known the guy when they were younger but by the time she hooked up with him he had been a meth addict and practically ruined himself. She took him on thinking things would be great and found herself saddled with someone who had severe problems due to Meth.

This is a tragic and heartbreaking situation. The worst part about it is that he doesn't even know what is wrong with him or that there is anything wrong, and fights treatment tooth and nail. Blames me for problems, etc when I am struggling mightily to get to the root of the problem and tear it out. Increases the burden of stress on me. No wonder I have been walking around for the last 2 years with bags under my eyes.

I cannot exist this way any more. It is time for me to buy a house and start a family. It has become obvious to me that he is not the man for the job. It would have been obvious a few months after he moved in if I had not blinded myself and wished things could be different because he is such a good person otherwise. He looks great, is smart, is educated and we share the same tastes and background. However, he is OCD AND a former Meth addict, and I am not. And I cannot be counselor, psych nurse, mommy (to him) and all the rest of that stuff. Live in the USA is hard, much harder than some other countries where things are just given to people. Unless you pull your weight here, you literally end up homeless in the street or in a neighborhood in which you could be killed at night. I do not deserve that. I do not have the energy to drag this guy along behind me, kicking and screaming. I will end up renting for the rest of my life and childless, and that is the honest truth of the situation. He cannot be allowed to steal my life and future family away.

The best skill in the world is learning how to open your ears when necessary and close that mouth. He never learned it. He strikes out at the hand that is trying to drag him up out of the pit.

Chris999

I posted this on an OCD board today, this is where I began to try to find help. The women there tried hard to help, but they didn't understand that I was dealing with an ex Meth addict. I didn't understand it either untill I did more research.

"I have been researching Meth. Indeed, if someone is addicted to Meth for a number of years and then quits, it does in fact cause changes in behavior that can be retained. There is no way of knowing when or if the behaviors will ever let up. I posted on Meth boards, and the general consensus seems to be that my boyfriend had OCD BEFORE he started with the Meth, but his use exacerbated the symptoms and added some bad behaviors/symptoms of it's own. There are some others this has happened to. When his father stole his trust fund and he really went Off The Wall in a big way, that was the last straw for him. The Zoloft did not help him either but added a set of problems which were then resolved after he got off of it.

He is going to be particularly hard to get through to and deal with. He sadly believes that

1) He is only suffering from General Anxiety Disorder and Stress

2) He does not, in fact, have OCD and does not need treatment nor counseling, but can get away with just drinking Valerian Tea when he feels bad

3) Meth is not dangerous and does not cause permanent changes in those who take it or were addicted to it at one time, that all that talk is just hype from the government. He persistently believes this even though he sees that his friend is truly permanently messed up from it and is getting kicked out from his apt from the inabliity to do his job, and he himself has an inability to do the job he has now and can't find a new job.

4) That when I cannot deal with the way he behaves, I am being "rude and insensitive"

5) That I am suffering from an "anger problem" and that's why I get upset about his behavior

6) That by agreeing to work together with him on our company, I somehow agreed to pay the deficit in the bills until the company does well EVEN IF it is years until it does well. That I never said that if it didn't do well for 2 years that he had to find other forms of work to make up for what the company is not making.

He staunchly believes all these things and more. He will not back down off of his beliefs.

IN SPITE of these beliefs, he STILL wants to spend AS MUCH time as possible in my company, so that each time he leaves the house it is because I yell and FORCE him out the door. He wants to sleep in the same bed every night, wake up together, spend the day together, and go to bed together that night, and this is what he would do unless work or something else intervened. But he can take or leave sex. If we spend a week together but don't have sex, this is no big deal to him.

THIS IS CREEPY. And THIS is what I signed up for?

So today, I woke up, exercised (with him tagging along), and went out to do some shopping (with him tagging along). There was some turbulence this morning such as him begging me for reassurance, wanting me to make miniscule decisions for him (he asks me if he should leave lights on and off, if he should leave AC on or off, what he should wear, if he should shave or not, what he should eat, when he should eat, etc, etc etc which I've told him he is not allowed to do any more but he still does). Finally when we were in the car with me feeling resentful and angry about having spent 48 continuous hours with him already, he found some old flyers that were stuffed in the door of the car. He saves all our old flyers, as many of them as he can, and hides them in different places in the house and car, which I really resent because I hate clutter). He asked me if he should get rid of them. I told him angrily that he should get rid of ALL the old flyers he had stored in various places in the garage, apartment and car. He then disagreed with me saying that he did not, in fact, have them all over. That was the last straw. But instead of yelling, I developed a serious migraine. I had intended to shop for some things in the city and eat. I ended up clutching my head, telling him he HAD to be quiet, driving to a Chinese place and getting takeout, rushing home and barricading myself in my room.

It's time for the freak show to end. I had let my life get taken over by someone who is sick and it's now making me sick. I'm going to have to get the guts to tell him that he HAS TO FIND HIS OWN PLACE TO LIVE OR GO BACK TO HIS MOM'S."

YearForMe

# 3 above....

Thinking that meth is not dangerous.....points him right back to meth addiction.
If he isn't using already.....he will be.....

JMHO

Chris999

It's nothing but fights and arguments, even when things are supposedly going well. He can switch it on like a light. There is a fight every day. I've got to get rid of him. I'm supposed to move out of my apt Oct 1st, and I think I'm going to move somewhere by myself. I'm going to have the moving truck come and pick up my things and just get the Hell out of here, leaving him to do whatever he will do. I need to focus on my own stuff anyway. My company will not crumble because I had to take control of it anyway, he had made a mess of it. He can do some of the work online from his Mom's house anyway, which is where he will probably end up seeing as how the company does not throw off enough money for him to live by himself. It's sad because our company was just "finding itself" now after I pretty much took control, and it is A LOT more convenient for us to live together rather than separately if we are doing this together, and he has a lot of specialized skills that make it easier to run the company. But I have those skills too, have had them for years before he even showed up in my life. I can't put up with the bickering, the negativity, the sapping of my time and energy, the run down look I sport when this is happening every day, the hopeless feeling that comes with it all. I want to wake up every day and be THRILLED with what is going on, not just happy about the business and less than thrilled with my relationship. I have the feeling that I will be happier with the business when I do it all myself or am in control of ALL The hiring. That is IT.

Chris999

I WILL NOT be manipulated or trapped into being a support system for an addict, even if he is clean right now, he still acts terribly and I'm not putting up with it. You can't just stop using drugs, you have to learn that it's not all about you AS WELL.