question about rehab
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8
question about rehab
does anyone know of the rehabs called narconon? they dont believe that the people being treated have a disease? i thought addiction was a disease, at least thats all im coming across.. they dont even believe in the 12 steps, when they come out they are "healed",.. but yet i see they have a 75 % sucess rate in treating addiction. any feedback would be great bc i was always under the impression that it was a disease! how can they be telling them it was just a string of bad mistakes?? this is what im hearing from my ex in rehab and im so confused. and hes also saying he is never going back to that way of life.. umm u have been there a month and been doing drugs for years. i thought a recovering addict is supposed to say i will take one day at a time and try my hardest not to use??? if anyone has any info that would be great bc this is all so new to me and i am so confused!!!
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
There is a bit of debate about what's known as the "disease concept."
Both the American Medical Association and the World Health Organization consider drug addiction/alcoholism to be a disease.
Still, there are those out there who disagree for a variety of reasons. As such, there are a number of treatment programs/rehab centers that don't follow the "disease concept" (meaning their philosophy is based on the belief that it is not a disease).
Just FYI there...
Both the American Medical Association and the World Health Organization consider drug addiction/alcoholism to be a disease.
Still, there are those out there who disagree for a variety of reasons. As such, there are a number of treatment programs/rehab centers that don't follow the "disease concept" (meaning their philosophy is based on the belief that it is not a disease).
Just FYI there...
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
There was a 5 day period between learning that my daughter was addicted to heroin before I arranged an intervention to get her into rehab.
I do not subscribe to the disease model as it relates to addiction. The label was assigned to allow it to be eligible for treatment and insurance benefits.
Addiction is often a symptom of deeper issues, immature thinking, impulsive behaviors, sense of entitlement, immature coping skils, cognitive distortions and teminal uniqueness.
I sought out a non 12 step approach ( there are many) that empowered the addict to take responsibility for themselves. My daughter's first stop on the rehab circuit was a Naracon facility. I was impressed with their recovery rate ......and at the time thought addiction could be cured. I did not know that no facility ( 12 steps based or not) knows how many of their former guests remain susbstance free over the long term. Percentages for any facility are derived from limited follow up period based only on what respnonders say. For this all stats touted by any rehab are suspect. In other words, it's a marketing gimick.
I found Narconon to be very cost effective, given the stay is open-ended and most guests stay at least a year or more. Their program focuses on teaching skills to cope with life as is, instead of how it should be and to not let outside influences push your buttons.
Narconon is effective for some of the people, some of the time, not any different than a 12 steps based program. The more I got into the Scientology part, the more uncomfortable I became with the kookiness beyond the surface and the cult-like perception. I am also aware that many view AA as a cult, too.
One of the more controversial aspects of Narconon is that if the guest can't get with the program or wants to leave, they drop the guest off at an area motel with $10 and a courtesy notification to the guest's financial sponsor with encouragement to let go and let the addict decide the next step. This is tough stuff for a parent to do, especially when the parent is in the " fix it" mode.
To make a long story short, I transfered my daughter out of the Narconon facility to a 12 Steps based world class facility, in Minnesota that cost about the same for 28 days as the Narcanon Program did for an open-ended stay. My daughter had no insurance at the time and so all cost were out of pocket, my pocket. She lasted there a matter of days too, before this facility determined she needed more help than they were prepared to give her.
So from there, I transferred her to a remote dual diagnosis facility where she stayed for several months. They diagnosed her with endless emotional conditions and mental illnesses and medicated her to the max.
She relapsed shortly after being discharged. She was not ready to take responsibility for her own sobriety.
My daughter eventually got herself clean, relapsed again and got clean again. She did this on her own and used thetools that were taught to her at all three facilities. She is doing well, right now. Tomorrow will take care of itself.
Rehabs do not cure addiction. At best, they teach the tools of recovery. Most people eventually relapse after leaving rehab, especially when rehab involved family coersion or a court order. It's too easy for everyone, including the addict, to jump on the band wagon and blame the rehab facility for not curing addiction. All rehabs work, when the addict follows the program.
My position on addiction is that it is progressive and usually results in prison and/or death. There is no one right way, for everyone. I do not think it matters much where an addict has the so called "come to jesus" moment or what program is used. If it works for them, it's better than the alternatives.
Your ex's recovery or not, this or that program, is none of your business. He owns his own recovery. If Narcanon is working for him I think it's swell.
I do not subscribe to the disease model as it relates to addiction. The label was assigned to allow it to be eligible for treatment and insurance benefits.
Addiction is often a symptom of deeper issues, immature thinking, impulsive behaviors, sense of entitlement, immature coping skils, cognitive distortions and teminal uniqueness.
I sought out a non 12 step approach ( there are many) that empowered the addict to take responsibility for themselves. My daughter's first stop on the rehab circuit was a Naracon facility. I was impressed with their recovery rate ......and at the time thought addiction could be cured. I did not know that no facility ( 12 steps based or not) knows how many of their former guests remain susbstance free over the long term. Percentages for any facility are derived from limited follow up period based only on what respnonders say. For this all stats touted by any rehab are suspect. In other words, it's a marketing gimick.
I found Narconon to be very cost effective, given the stay is open-ended and most guests stay at least a year or more. Their program focuses on teaching skills to cope with life as is, instead of how it should be and to not let outside influences push your buttons.
Narconon is effective for some of the people, some of the time, not any different than a 12 steps based program. The more I got into the Scientology part, the more uncomfortable I became with the kookiness beyond the surface and the cult-like perception. I am also aware that many view AA as a cult, too.
One of the more controversial aspects of Narconon is that if the guest can't get with the program or wants to leave, they drop the guest off at an area motel with $10 and a courtesy notification to the guest's financial sponsor with encouragement to let go and let the addict decide the next step. This is tough stuff for a parent to do, especially when the parent is in the " fix it" mode.
To make a long story short, I transfered my daughter out of the Narconon facility to a 12 Steps based world class facility, in Minnesota that cost about the same for 28 days as the Narcanon Program did for an open-ended stay. My daughter had no insurance at the time and so all cost were out of pocket, my pocket. She lasted there a matter of days too, before this facility determined she needed more help than they were prepared to give her.
So from there, I transferred her to a remote dual diagnosis facility where she stayed for several months. They diagnosed her with endless emotional conditions and mental illnesses and medicated her to the max.
She relapsed shortly after being discharged. She was not ready to take responsibility for her own sobriety.
My daughter eventually got herself clean, relapsed again and got clean again. She did this on her own and used thetools that were taught to her at all three facilities. She is doing well, right now. Tomorrow will take care of itself.
Rehabs do not cure addiction. At best, they teach the tools of recovery. Most people eventually relapse after leaving rehab, especially when rehab involved family coersion or a court order. It's too easy for everyone, including the addict, to jump on the band wagon and blame the rehab facility for not curing addiction. All rehabs work, when the addict follows the program.
My position on addiction is that it is progressive and usually results in prison and/or death. There is no one right way, for everyone. I do not think it matters much where an addict has the so called "come to jesus" moment or what program is used. If it works for them, it's better than the alternatives.
Your ex's recovery or not, this or that program, is none of your business. He owns his own recovery. If Narcanon is working for him I think it's swell.
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
In 2004, the World Health Organisation published a detailed report on alcohol and other psychoactive substances entitled "Neuroscience of psychoactive substance use and dependence".[36] It stated that this was the "first attempt by WHO to provide a comprehensive overview of the biological factors related to substance use and dependence by summarizing the vast amount of knowledge gained in the last 20-30 years. The report highlights the current state of knowledge of the mechanisms of action of different types of psychoactive substances, and explains how the use of these substances can lead to the development of dependence syndrome." The report states that "dependence has not previously been recognized as a disorder of the brain, in the same way that psychiatric and mental illnesses were not previously viewed as being a result of a disorder of the brain. However, with recent advances in neuroscience, it is clear that dependence is as much a disorder of the brain as any other neurological or psychiatric illness."
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Outtolunch, that was one of the best answers I have ever read here about any rehab situation, and thank you for sharing your own experience with it.
I agree, rehabs don't "cure" addiction, they teach how to live life on life's terms without using drug. The success of the program is directly related to the residents willingness to apply the principals of recovery to his life.
Confused, with love in my heart I am going to suggest that instead of trying to figure out how his program should work, maybe instead find some great meetings of your own and begin your own healing.
Many people suggested that to me, and still it took me a long time to decide to give meetings a try, but once I did I have never looked back.
Hugs
I agree, rehabs don't "cure" addiction, they teach how to live life on life's terms without using drug. The success of the program is directly related to the residents willingness to apply the principals of recovery to his life.
Confused, with love in my heart I am going to suggest that instead of trying to figure out how his program should work, maybe instead find some great meetings of your own and begin your own healing.
Many people suggested that to me, and still it took me a long time to decide to give meetings a try, but once I did I have never looked back.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Justanotherdrunk:
I respect what you are reporting, here and I trend to believe there is a likely predisposition towards alcoholism.
The epidemic of substance abuse in our culture goes way beyond biology in favor of impulsive and immature behaviors, easy availability and off the charts potency, never before imaginable.
I respect all the theories and controversies about the root cause. Far be it for me to judge what works for someone else.
I respect what you are reporting, here and I trend to believe there is a likely predisposition towards alcoholism.
The epidemic of substance abuse in our culture goes way beyond biology in favor of impulsive and immature behaviors, easy availability and off the charts potency, never before imaginable.
I respect all the theories and controversies about the root cause. Far be it for me to judge what works for someone else.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 234
As stated before no program will work unless the adict is dedicated to recovery. In that case they will get clean with or without a program. That being said we placed our 19 yo son in a Narconon program in Fla. We drove 13 hours through the night to get there. Once there I put 20,000.00 on my credit card. They start by putting them through a "sauna phase" where the adict is placed in a sauna while taking large doses of nician. Their belief is that once they stop turning red in the sauna they will be detoxed and can begin other areas of recovery. They tell you this an open ended program which was a large part of our placing him in this program but it really isn't. It is a 3 month or less program. They get them out of there no matter what. My son got into trouble 2 weeks before his projected release date. They offered to put him on a bus home or take him to homeless shelter. I opted for the shelter. He spent 2 weeks there went back and was still released on time. I still wonder how they thought that someone could screw up so badly they needed to be kicked out but he was still well enough to be released from the program. When we went to pick him up we didn't even get to talk to the counselor. I'm sorry to be so long. But the end of this story is that he relapsed less than a week after being home. The stories he had since told me about what went on are horrifing to me there are tons more I could tell about this facility.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8
thank you for all the informative responses. i was just curious since i am new to all this information on addiction. i figured here would be the best place to ask. i am focusing on moving on and i am going to my first na meeting to try to understand this a little more. i feel as though i cant move on until i fully understand how this could have happened . but then again i may never really get it and i have to accept that. i know this is his journey and i have no part in it and cant change him no matter how bad i want to.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Hello Dorton:
It seems that each facility is independently owned and operated
( franchise???) but all follow the same drill. My daughter was in the Michigan facility and so many had been there a long, long time.
At the time I was struck by what I thought was unnecessary cruelness as it relates to guests who do not want to be there. There is substantial media coverage about this aspect of their program as well as the so called brain washing that occurs.
It took me awhile to grasp that the objective was to create an clear either/or dilema and put the outcome in the addict's lap. The reality is that any adult can walk out of any rehab program and if the rehab follows patient privacy laws, the rehab will not deny or confirm residency or departure, without the patient's consent.
Most rehabs do not refund sponsor monies if the addict does not complete the program. And no rehab can guarantee results. Like you, I used a credit card for payment and my destitute daughter, not I, agreed to the non refunadable terms of the program. I disputed the charge and we paid for 5 days of detoxx, nothing more.
I am probably the furthest thing from a Scientoligist other than I am generally opposed to mood altering substances. If it were my choice (and it is clearly not) that my daughter remain a street junkie with all the consequences or embrace Scientology as her tool for recovery, there is no doubt that I would support her Scientology conversion.
It's common for addicts (and their families) to blame the program, any program, for failure/relapse rather than take responsibibility for their own outcome. I think my daughter relapsed within hours of returning home from the final 12 steps based program. I know I blamed the program and the people running it. It took time to gain perspective.
It seems that each facility is independently owned and operated
( franchise???) but all follow the same drill. My daughter was in the Michigan facility and so many had been there a long, long time.
At the time I was struck by what I thought was unnecessary cruelness as it relates to guests who do not want to be there. There is substantial media coverage about this aspect of their program as well as the so called brain washing that occurs.
It took me awhile to grasp that the objective was to create an clear either/or dilema and put the outcome in the addict's lap. The reality is that any adult can walk out of any rehab program and if the rehab follows patient privacy laws, the rehab will not deny or confirm residency or departure, without the patient's consent.
Most rehabs do not refund sponsor monies if the addict does not complete the program. And no rehab can guarantee results. Like you, I used a credit card for payment and my destitute daughter, not I, agreed to the non refunadable terms of the program. I disputed the charge and we paid for 5 days of detoxx, nothing more.
I am probably the furthest thing from a Scientoligist other than I am generally opposed to mood altering substances. If it were my choice (and it is clearly not) that my daughter remain a street junkie with all the consequences or embrace Scientology as her tool for recovery, there is no doubt that I would support her Scientology conversion.
It's common for addicts (and their families) to blame the program, any program, for failure/relapse rather than take responsibibility for their own outcome. I think my daughter relapsed within hours of returning home from the final 12 steps based program. I know I blamed the program and the people running it. It took time to gain perspective.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 234
I'm sorry Out I do not blame the program in any way for my son's relapse that is solely his responsiblity. However I do feel that this is a program that is not always well ran. There were many things that we were told that simply were not true (I.e. That we would have family counseling prior to his release, the residents were not allowed to Spend over a certain amount of money per week, that there would be follow up provided, etc). I have never said I felt he was mistreated in fact I felt they were not tough enough on them. I know they are individually owned which is why I mentioned the state. I realize this is only one persons expirence but it is what happened with our family.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
when my (now) ex-husband went into treatment, i had a problem with the notion of alcoholism as a "disease". i found that it was important to him that i subscribe to this, so i thought about it. when i looked up the word in the dictionary, it shed a whole new light on it.
but, as outtolunch has eloquently stated, it's complicated. extremely.
good luck to you, confused. it's a lot to absorb and no, you will probably never truly understand.
but, as outtolunch has eloquently stated, it's complicated. extremely.
good luck to you, confused. it's a lot to absorb and no, you will probably never truly understand.
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