IPT

hope if you don't mind my thoughts and experiences...

Sounds like my ex, A LOT (except maybe she had worse stuff too). I won't go into details. This is the stuff that really leads to addicition. From what she said and I've read the low self esteem, lack of trust in others, feeling helpless, scared, or not good enough. It is a long road to rebuild that and it takes a LOT of work. I was blessed with a pretty healthy upbringing so this was all new stuff to me.

Good for him. I hope he can keep at it. Is he getting professional help too?

yup, my g/f told me many times that I was the only person in her life to care about her. In fact there were time when she would tear up and Thank me for caring about her. It teared me up. Made me feel good in a way that I could be special to her, and super sad in a way that she felt that way. I think that empathy is part of what pulled me in so deep. Also that powerful feeling of emotion in general. I tend to be pretty shut down and she had a way of making me "feel".


Oh can I relate to this! All I wanted was a quick call from work, and email, whatever. She would go over and hang out with hr mom (smoking weed I think) and it could be hours or days before I heard from her. Sometimes she would leave me a meassge that she was having a hard time. struggling with her own issues, but cared for me and missed me. I didn't get it...you miss me but you couldn't make the effort to make a phone call.

I started out pretty secure. After all her not calling, not showing up, I gradually became insecure. I am not a professional by any means, and I am learning a lot about myself these days as well as relationships and what they should be like. Apparently it should come pretty naturally. I remmeber in the 6 months telling my g/f we've had more fights than I have in 3 years relationships. I look back and see the Red flags (in hind sight). I saw them before, but wasn't willing to accept what they meant. She basically told me she didn't love herself (or respect herself) and couldn't possibly love someone else if she didnt even love herself. Sadly she was right.

GOOD for you!

Yes, you will, I think. My problem was I was "ready" many times because I was so unhappy with the roller coaster but I never stuck my ground. She would always come back and say the right thing, or I would regret saying what I did and not want to lose her so we'd start up again. We repeated the same thing over and over for years.

Anyway, in the grand scheme of things you seem to be thinking clearly. My only new advice is as you take care of yourself, be firm in what you are willing to accept or not. For me, and this was just my experience, over time I slowly found myself accepting things that I normally never would have. A therapist pointed that out to me and said "if you met her today, without the history you have and she treated you that way (not calling, cancelling all the time, being unreliable) would you go out with her again?" My answer was no, but there I was going out with her still and not wanting to let go. I have no idea really how I got there, or how it happened, it just did.

I totally hope he gets his act together. I totally hope you are happy in the relationship and the communication stays flowing. Keep us updated, and take care of yoursef and your needs. Don't sell yourself short or settle for less love, respect, and commitment than you deserve .

hope213

welcome to s.r. my addict is my son. read around there is alot to learn about loving an addict.

rayofsunshine

Welcome to SR, Summer. Keep reading and posting.... there is a lot of support and
encouragement here! Learn all you can about addiction so you'll know what you're dealing
with. Remember, when dealing with an addict.... rely on their ACTIONS, not just words.
If we could "love" them clean, none of us would be here.... If the actions and words are not matching up, let it be a red flag.

Crazy4Him

My ex is an alcoholic and I started posting on these boards one month into his relapse. I was you a year ago, to the letter. I, like you, didn't want to give up on him. I hated the thought of him finding recovery and me not being right there by him when he found it. Seven months later he's still drinking with no plans to stop. Like you I loved him and wanted to help him more than I wanted to help myself. I am battered, broken and kicked out of his life.

Listen to me right now. HE WILL NOT CHANGE FOR YOU OR BECAUSE OF YOU. EVER.

STOP. DO NOT PASS GO.

RUN.

RUN FAR.

RUN FAST.

Take care of yourself first. Addiction is a mental monster that you do not want to contend with.

summer017

Outtolunch: I was just beginning to feel like I was nagging. Three different occasions I had to bring up the fact that I didn't feel like he cared. The majority of the time we see eachother is the weekends, because during the summer we are both so swamped with work during the week and monday through friday I was lucky if I heard from him my 7-8 pm. I just felt unappreciated. Like wow, i didn't come to your mind once all day where you felt it would be nice to give a 30 second phone call or a text? I would bring up the fact that he needed to look at how his actions made me feel. It doesnt take much to keep me happy I am very easily pleased and a quick phone call or text would make me very happy. I felt that I was so pathetic having to ask my boyfriend to call me.. i mean wtf! I didnt want to cause resentments or have him feel like it was a chore to have to keep in touch.

I felt like i was the only one who was making an effort or that was making some changes in my life in regards to this new relationship.

as of now... he has gotten better. lol

IPT

Oh how many times I thought that, felt that. It killed me. I am running a business and working my bu** off, rarely "take lunch", and I can still find 30 seconds to reach out to let her now I am thinking about her. She'd go out to lunch and STILL claim to not have time to call (she said). I even asked her once, "what about your lunch, you have like an hour?" Her response was basically that she was over whelmed and she just needed time to unwind. That was followed up with the fact that and didn’t want to be "controlled or pressured", that I was being needy. It tore my heart out. I found myself fighting for and happy when she just sent me a one sentence text saying “miss you” or “see you later”. It was the crumbs she fed me to hang on to me and I was SO HAPPY. God, I deserved SO much more, but at the time that was the bomb for me.

What I have come to realize is she struggles just to wake up and function every day. It probably WAS a big deal to her to make that effort to think about someone elses needs. She was barely meeting her own. Living was a big deal, over whelming to her. Because of her childhood rejections, depression, low self worth, and co-dependency she was constantly overwhelmed and afraid. I can’t begin to imagine her world, but I know if affected mine profoundly in a negative way. It made me start to be controlling looking for my “crumb” to be dished out. To be validated I meant enough for her to make even a tiny effort. It made me start to question my self-worth “how can I be so unimportant she can’t find even ONE MINUTE to make a call, text, or even reply to the text I sent her" (to get the ball rolling). I started settling for being acknowledged...and I should have been being showered with positive energy, love recognition, respect, and affection.

It changed for brief periods then slowly faded back to the way it was. I think our best stretch was about 2 months…….

summer017

this is the way i feel to a T

kj3880

I'm sorry to bust y'alls' bubbles, but I hope it helps in the long run for you detach. I am an addict, and even in early recovery, I still clung to those I had feelings for. I still called my relatives whenever I got a chance. And I still took care of my children.

These people don't sound as though they care much about you, Summer and IPT. Even in early recovery, waking up and functioning is not so much of a struggle that she/he can't reach out for 30 seconds at any times during their days. She/He just doesn't care to. I'm sorry. Run. Both of you. This is less about the disease and more about them not caring for you both as you obviously care about them.

If you all stay around for this uncaring behavior, you will be teaching them that is how you are to be treated. More than that, you will both lose your self-respect. I hope you will expect more for yourselves than this half-@ssed relationship. I'm sorry for your pain.

Love,
KJ

IPT

KJ3880 - sadly I agree. It took me a long time to get where I am, but I am out. I broke up with her 4 months ago, then sort of mingled with her a bit again, but now have not spoken to her in 5 weeks (though as many are well aware it has been a struggle for me).

She was so secretive that I often wonder what she did, where I was in her life. I know her family was first. They had the tightest most co-dependant relationships I have ever seen. She quit her job just to go on vacation with her mom. She hasn’t worked now in 6 months and just hangs out with mom (who has really no friends and to the best of my knowledge she has few herself). I am not sure how much of it is addiction, co-dependence, or just plain depression and fear of life itself. Fear of getting something “good” and healthy. Who knows… it makes me sad, but clearly our relationship was off kilter. I fought to get it balanced, and it would be, for a brief period here and there. In the end, her actions finally proved (or should I say I finally accepted) that I, or our relationship was just not a priority no matter what she “said” with her words.

I totally understand where Summer is. I didn’t end up there until after almost a year before it all got exposed and gradually regressed. We used to hang out most weekends, all weekend. Did tons of things together. Then as her family had issues (grandmother passed, uncle sick, brother needed help with his dtr, mom left her Alcoholic b/f of 15 years) she was gone more and more. Her drug use increased and so did her unhappiness. All downhill for the next several years.

I have shared so much so that summer can hopefully see things differently than I did (and because it helps me to work it out for myself). It seems we are (were) in very similar places, except I have way more time invested, am older, and have been working my way thru this for years now. I tend to agree that she should probably let go, but I knew that myself and it did not happen easily for me. I had to “get there”, understand what I was dealing with and the futility of it. Hopefully if she can understand and see the road I travelled she will be able to read the signs more clearly and faster than I did. Then she can make the right decisions MUCH faster than I did. I hope that for her because I would hate for her to waste the time I did and experience all the pain that I did and still am. Reading here and listening to others experiences really helped me a ton to grasp reality. It isn’t easy.

kj3880

yes, I hope that for her too. There is no need for her to stay stuck as long as some of us did. She sounds like she is going to figure it out.

KJ

IPT

Hey Summer - I know you are lurking out there somewhere ....how are you doing?

IPT

bump - summer, you're in my thoughts all the time......how are you?

summer017

IPT
Hi there...Thank you for keeping check on me! I am well. Everything has been going smoothly, I honestly have no complaints right now. I have kind of let things happen as they may. We have been seeing each other a lot more during the week. It seemed like when we werent seeing each other during the weekdays and only on the weekends bc we were both busy that we would argue more. I think that maybe we missed each other and took our frustrations out on each other. We had a pretty good conversation the other night where a lot of things I thought he had been feeling were brought up. He started by coming out and saying 'you've never dated someone like me before have you' at first i didnt kno what he meant! An addict? What he meant was someone who was not 'preppy' - because he certainly is not. He stated that up until recently when we started dating he thought me hangin around him was just a phase I was going through. That i was trying to rebel. I assured him that that was not the case and I hoped that he didnt still believe this - he said no. But I see how he would not be too willing to open up to me if he had felt this way. It all goes back to his low self esteem and confidence. I am an attractive female, college graduate, well traveled, working two jobs, come from a great family, and pretty much have my head on right. my boyfriend has been through the ringer with his family, although he is a very hard worker, helps out to the extreme financially to support his mother and keeps very little for himself. He and his family don't have much. Many of my friends say that I am too good for him, but I HATE that statement as I see people for who they are and how they treat others. Material things are not important to me. I can see where he would feel that it was just a phase i was going through - trying it out. But i think that he knows by now that i am in this for real.

I am having one problem - 98% of the time my bf is a new person. Not showing the characteristics of someone using. But once in a while I do see that he is messed up. His drug of choice of oxys. So he would be nodding off all the time. once in a while i do see him act like this. I want to bring it up, but I dont want him to feel that I am accusing him or trying to put him down because I do know he has been working hard at it. When he acts like this hell say, wow im so tired, or sorry i took tylenol pms a bit ago.... but that is just not the case, and i just feel like he thinks im stupid. I kno that he has a lot of shame about his using and I think a majority of it is that he doesnt want me to feel let down if i KNOW that he is using bc of everything i did for him when he went to detox and continue to do. I just dont know what to say. It kills me because I just want him to be honest, i HATE lying.

How are you doing though IPT? Can you fill me in on anything you are going through right now? Thanks again

bluejay6

Just want to say a thank you to IPT for telling his story within this thread, to help out Summer. So much illumination of the addict-codependent confusion and crisis is in his story. Many things similar to my most recent abf relationship (the days without calling, the last minute cancellations, the resentment that i had reasonable expectations for being in touch). I appreciate all the details of your sharing, IPT. It's a very clear picture and is useful to those who are living it or recently have lived it.

Summer, I worry for you but I know you're trying. I'm glad you have people to talk to here.

Bluejay

IPT

Hi Summer! Thanks for checking back. I worry about you too, , but you need to travel your own road. Please keep the map nearby so you don’t go too far down a road and end up someplace you do not want to be.

It helps me to work things out by writing, so I am going too, a lot. Pull up a chair, this is long…. The similarities to us are pretty amazing. My xagf used to fall asleep all the time. She could barely make it thru a movie. Made it hard to do things together, we could rarely even talk about if we liked a movie because she missed half of it. I figured it was from the depression, and or the pot smoking. She said she’s always been like that, but she’s practically smoked 2/3 of her life…of course she has always been like that. She also said “why are we so bad on the phone, but never when we are together” The reason, I see now, is because on the phone she could lie, be sneaky, make empty promises. If she was here that did not happen. No let downs, and I felt a (false) sense of security, like it was all okay.

I come from a good background, etc. My xagf, a broken family with all sorts of enabling, co-dependence (like having to give her mom money to get by), lies, manipulation, drug use, addictions, and no trust of anyone (which is apparently one of the effects of growing up in a dysfunctional family). She often hid her family from me because she was embarrassed, didn’t think I would accept them or her if I saw the truth (and to tell the truth there were sometimes I questioned if that was the life I wanted to “marry” into). My xagf said something similar to me too “I fear that since you had a healthy upbringing you cannot relate to my struggles and perspective of life”…it broke my heart, and I tell you I TRIED SO HARD to be able to understand and accept the differences. Still, no matter how hard I tried I COULD NOT understand how a “person” (good, bad, addict, black, white, whatever) could say they were going to do something and not do it. It just didn’t compute. Especially when I told her point blank “it is really important that you do this because we need to rebuild trust (“this” may have been something as simple as being on time, or getting something at the store like she said she would). In her counseling she referred to her habits as being “survival skills”. When you are a child you learn fast that you will be hurt less if you don’t believe in what people say (because they don’t follow thru). You learn to lie to keep the peace, do things you don’t want to in order make people happy or try to make everyone happy which is never possible and someone always gets the short end of the stick. It can take a lifetime, if ever to change those habits. Just as you and I cannot understand how someone could call in sick to work regularly, or not call when being late, they don’t understand NOT lying (to avoid confrontation or conflict), or the need to be responsible. Imagine someone asking you to just call in sick to work for a week or two, or be late without calling ON A REGULAR BASIS. How unnatural would that feel to you? How hard would it be for you to change your life and adopt those habits permently? (of course in our eyes that’s going from good to worse, where they would be going form worse to better….but the difficulty of the process to change a behavior when your core belief system is set is no different at all…it would be VERY hard..ask any RA here and I am sure they would concur).

Me, I am still struggling. I originally broke up with her 4 and ½ months ago. Since then I saw her about 7 times, then she cut it off. Have had total NC now for 5 weeks, haven’t seen her in almost 7 weeks. Every day I think about her, every day my heart breaks in one way or another. Either because I think of all the lies she told me, or that I accepted them, maybe she was cheating. I hear someone talking to someone about picking something up on the phone and I imagine her talking to her dealer…her private life she hid, how I probably knew very little about her. At the very same time I probably knew more about her than anyone (regarding her deep feelings of self hatred, disgust, the abuse that occurred, and her total despair). I worry about her, and what her life will be like. The recovery rate is so low. She is a prime candidate for suicide and the thought of that makes me want to die inside. The pain from becoming attached to her, caring about her, overwhelm me now, even with her removed from my life. I hope I just never hear about or from her again. If she gets worse, it will break my heart. In some ways if she gets better without me being able to “enjoy” or share it with her (after trying so long) it will hurt just the same.

At the same time I am growing and learning about me. SO much about my previous relationship choices, mistakes I’ve made in this and other relationships. What I want out of life and from my partner. This was a hell of a painful way to get here, but I am learning lessons that I needed to learn. Seeing things differently than ever before even though I have looked at this stuff previously and saw nothing there on my part.
The allure of this girl for me…it is SO strong. I am still trying to figure it out. I meet women all the time. One girl recently told me I am the “complete package”. She couldn’t understand why I had never been married (because I stayed in relationships like this WAY TOO LONG). Just this weekend I met a girl in a parking lot when going for a bike ride. I came back and she had left her number on my window! Still, here I am, hung up on a girl who would rather smoke weed than be with me. I don’t know how, but I got pulled into this SO DEEPLY and I didn’t even see it happening (but I am slowly learning how). That is why I was, and am concerned for you (keep that MAP at your side!) because it is so insidious.

My friend once made a similar statement as yours, something to the effect of “you need to date someone at your own level”. I blew it off…but maybe I shouldn’t have. I expected this girl to become responsible, get fit, and change her life (because she showed me a few glimpses of it and told me it was what she wanted). It would have complimented my life perfectly, she was beautiful, and I felt good about me being able to “help” her. The fact is, sadly, she may be a Hugo, and no matter what will never be a Mercedes. I recently was introduced another girl who is “on my level”. Not sure where it will go, if anywhere, or if I even want it to just yet. However, to meet an educated women who works out and trains on her own because she likes it (and doesn’t need to be encouraged or coaxed) and is responsible because she just “is” (not because she is making an effort that could end at any given moment) was a total relief. I would be able to “let her be” and she would just be the person I wanted. I wouldn’t have to point out the basics of a relationship, she knows them already. We could focus on growing old, happy, and healthy together…not about being responsible so I (or even kids if we had some) felt important and safe. I wouldn’t have to worry if she was a few minutes late if she “slipped” and was using again….don’t get me wrong, as you know I feel the loss, badly…but really what did I lose?? In a sick way, what I lost was those super high “highs”. I will miss that amazing feeling of when she is actually there when she was supposed to be….because she rarely was…but when you step back and look at that, that is unhealthy as hell. We deserve much more. I was an addict with the lows, the highs, and the withdrawals too! I wanted to work thru all that stuff with her and watch her grow. Now I understand the wisdom of letting them doing it alone, on their own and meeting up again later in life when they are whole.

bluejay6

For myself, I believe in fated relationships, persons we are tied to long before we ever meet them. That is my belief, anyway.

And while there is the intense joy of falling in love with someone who is an addict because, well, falling in love IS intense, and that is why there are centuries worth of romantic love stories in every culture in the world.....I also believe that, for me at least, the drug addict I so deeply loved was in fact fated for me, and something in me recognized him and felt an overwhelming joy of familiarity. Many here write about the instant connection they experienced as pathological addict-codependent bonding. But I do not think that way about my particular relationship, which is of course my right. Thinking for ourselves--finally--is one of the blessings of recovery.

So I accept both IPT's and Summer's renderings of their romantic longing and their pain at the loss of someone they loved so much, in spite of all the disappointments and distrust.

I believe that as long as someone is in active addiction, then that is the primary relationship problem and everything flows from that...everything. There is much written about the addict personality and the way that, as addiction progresses, it is as if all addicts see the world through the same lens, and behave accordingly.

When an active addict attributes any unacceptable behavior to childhood issues, or ongoing stressors, or low self-esteem, or having been cheated on, or being broke, or any number of plausible reasons for not being accountable and available.....I just inwardly shrug. I don't buy it. I believe, and have read again and again, that the addiction fuels EVERY thought and action and feeling of the addict, and I believe it.

The reality is that we here--those who love addicts-- all have to have an emotional bottom line. We have to decide what that is, and sometimes we don't know what it is except by a process of elimination: we put up with hurt after hurt after hurt, and in time, our emotional bottom line rises up like Venus out of the sea.

My exabf has been non-communicative and completely absent from my life for 3 years now. No one who sees my life from the outside would know that I am still, every day, mending a broken heart. I live a good, full life.

But my heart is yet with him. That will change when God says so.

Glad to share part of my story here, too.

Bluejay

summer017

You guys dont understand how thankful i am of your responses. it is so nice to be able to share experiences with you and feel that there are others who have been there and i am not alone. i have so much in my mind to say to you but seems like i dont have the patience to type it all - i apologize if i seem like im just complaining or venting, i guess thats what i do, but it makes me feel better.

right now to be honest i am pissed. it has been two days since i have heard my bfs voice. tuesday i text him in the morning to have a good day. he said thank you. later in the day i text him asking about a movie we had just seen, we sent back and forth 4 text maybe. when it got to be around 8pm and i still hadnt received a phone call or anything i text him asking him what he was up to. no response. an hour later i text him again saying 'hi im going out just wanted to say hi but maybe your sleepiing?' no reponse...no response in the morning. wednesday morning after still not hearing from him i text him again saying have a great day. he said 'its too hot to have a good day' around 7pm after not hearing anything else from him i called him. no answer. around 9 i text him asking him why he was MIA. no answer. now it is thursday and still....no answer.

you have got to be kidding me. tonight hell text/call me, and ill be so mad at that point bc I WILL WAIT ALL DAY TODAY CHECKING MY PHONE 24/7 that i wont even want to answer. hell try to get ahold of me a couple times then get the picture that im mad and hell say something like 'i kno your mad at me for not getting back to you, but i have been so busy with work.' theres always an excuse. so busy with work, ive been depressed so i shut my phone off/on silent, work was crazy so i just been going straight to bed. I DONT CARE. i dont want the excuses anymore!

if i try to tell him AGAIN that he needs to look at how his actions make me feel - like he DOESNT CARE - then he will turn it around and make me feel like i am the messed up one. that its 'crazy to say i dont care just because i dont have my phone on me all the time. i hate the phone im just not a phone person' i dont give a ****. when you CARE about someone YOU DO IT. i tell him im going out... you think he cares that i made it home safe? or if i had a good night? or ANY DETAILS ABOUT MY LIFE FOR THE PAST TWO DAYS?

i do it to myself i know. i am letting him do it to me, so it is my own fault for accepting it. the sad truth is is that because of what he is doing right now, not calling me/texting me back or being in any contact whatsoever, it will effect my ENTIRE MOOD until i hear from him. i will be miserable. and i AM NOT A MISERABLE PERSON. i am a caring, giving, SENSITIVE, (maybe overly sensitive) person who IS NOT ASKING FOR MUCH.

i know what i need to do. end it and move on to a relationship that will be all that i need without me having to ask for it. i just dont know why i cant stand up and do it. i dont want to hurt him, it seems i would rather be hurting inside myself?

the truth sucks!!

summer017

Another thing:

since we have started having sex maybe 3 weeks ago, i feel like thats all we do. ill go over his house around 10pm or so and go straight to bed. FOR HOURS. he says that he is 'addicted to sex now' that he has never been able to just like something he gets overwhelmed with emotion and gets addicted to it. i dont know if it is wierd for me to post this, so im sorry if it is.

hes not an overly affectionate person, but when we have sex i feel very close to him obviously. i dont know if it is real emotion or just sex. is the sex all that we have?

that scares me.

IPT

you're getting more and more engaged. It gets harder and harder to get out from here. You start to fight for being treated repsectfully and lose all sight of the fact your relationship has become about earning someones attention and just to be treated with respect and have your feelings recognized instead of what a relationship is suppossed to be.

My ex would do the same stuff, then turn it around that I was over reacting and her not calling was no big deal. Then she'd use my reaction (you hurt me so I am not ready to talk yet) as an excuse to go MIA and soon I'd be apologizing and trying to get her back.

Summer you're bringing tears to my eyes....END IT NOW, TONIGHT...do NOT get involved in this any deeper than you are (especially once a sexual relationship develops). It gets exponetially harder as time goes on to get out. The pain, unhappiness, feelings of rejection, resentment, frustration, futility, misery get worse and worse. I erodes you from the inside out, breaks you down and forces you to start questioning yourself, self worth, and sanity. My friends were baffled (and pissed at her) watching how much her actions (and my reactions) hurt me and took over my life. IT WILL CONSUME YOU....I'll say it again, you are young, please for the love of god (and yourself) end it, now.....:ghug3

IPT

I doubt you are an overly sensitive person anywhere but within the context of this relationship. Over time though it starts to manifest itself outside of the relationship. I remember after being shut out by my xagf for a while I called a friend for something. After a few hours I called her back and said something to the effect of "I guess your too busy to get back to me".... I was feeling uncared about and ignored. She called back and was like "chill, I just got off work".... it was at that point that I realized all my ex's rejections and emotional unavailability were changing me and my other relationships for the worse....yet I still stayed another year or so.

Sorry about being so blunt in my prior post. I just know where I am now, where I was, and I DO NO WANT YOU TO BE THERE....your just tasting the tip of the iceberg...it gets worse. I was hoping it would snap you into taking the action you probably know you need to. It does NOT get easier if you wait, it gets harder....