Is this typical?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 540
Is this typical?
Is this typical of drug addiction? My 21 year old AS ( crack) has been horrible lately. Last month my spouse and I detached from him. No more money, no help with anything that we feel he can do himself. Recently I charged him with fraud and theft, he is to appear in court on Monday. He calls yesterday and says " mom you break the law" when I asked him how he said it doesnt matter and hung up on me. I don't however what a nasty, horrible personality he has developed. We have tried to help him out in the past and once we cut him off this behaviour started. He says things like maybe I will call the police and tell them you speed and give them your plate number, Im going to call your friends and tell them your two faced the list goes on and on. Everytime he calls me hes whining about something no food, dirty laundry etc.
His sister is home visiting from University right now and he says things like "oh the princess" or "goody too shoes" he also called her to tell her that I am a percription drug addict? 3 months ago I took one of my husband clonazepam's to try and get some sleep.? It is like he is on some type of vendetta its quite upsetting. It seems to me that he is bent on destroying our family for some unknown reason.Or is it because we have cut him off. At this point I really don't like him at all. What a nasty horrible person, and consistently tells people lies. I do love my son but I hate the drug personality. Is this typical of crack users?
His sister is home visiting from University right now and he says things like "oh the princess" or "goody too shoes" he also called her to tell her that I am a percription drug addict? 3 months ago I took one of my husband clonazepam's to try and get some sleep.? It is like he is on some type of vendetta its quite upsetting. It seems to me that he is bent on destroying our family for some unknown reason.Or is it because we have cut him off. At this point I really don't like him at all. What a nasty horrible person, and consistently tells people lies. I do love my son but I hate the drug personality. Is this typical of crack users?
remember to breathe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: philadelphia pa
Posts: 1,280
yes it is typical.
When they get their panties is a bunch they will say or do anything just to **** you off.
Even if what they say is a lie or rediculous, they say it just to get a response out of you. My suggestion, ignore him when he gets this way, just say "whatever". He lashes out at your daughter because she's not a junkie and he's jelaous of that.
good luck
When they get their panties is a bunch they will say or do anything just to **** you off.
Even if what they say is a lie or rediculous, they say it just to get a response out of you. My suggestion, ignore him when he gets this way, just say "whatever". He lashes out at your daughter because she's not a junkie and he's jelaous of that.
good luck
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
Originally Posted by katie44 
Is this typical of crack users?
It's never about them. It's always about you. They aren't the one's with the problem. You're the problem.
(And when I say that, I don't mean that you are really the problem. That's just went on in my mind when I was in the throws of active addiction. I didn't have a drinking problem, everyone else had a problem with my drinking.)
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 215
It is typical of addicts in general I believe. They try to deflect and turn things back on you when they face a wall and are not willing to look at themselves or accept responsibilitiy. I have been amazed how my AS so eloquently claimed we as parents were actually at fault for the trouble he is in! And sometimes I have to admit it takes me off guard and comes across as so convincing that I have to stop myself from thinking, well, maybe he's righ!
You are doing great! Have you considered not answering the phone to avoid his accusations and blame and twisted logic? Or refuse to hear his stuff by just walking out of the room and saying I am not going to sit here and listen to this? For your own sanity you should give that a try.
Also, I can identify with not liking my son. Of course I love him unconditionally and always will, but when trust goes out the window its eally hard to like them.
You are doing great! Have you considered not answering the phone to avoid his accusations and blame and twisted logic? Or refuse to hear his stuff by just walking out of the room and saying I am not going to sit here and listen to this? For your own sanity you should give that a try.
Also, I can identify with not liking my son. Of course I love him unconditionally and always will, but when trust goes out the window its eally hard to like them.
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Burgh
Posts: 1,991
It IS typical, and one of the more painful parts of families struck by addiction.
I used to think of it like a hungry dog, and you're taking away his food.
Its the addiction talking, not your son.
Prayers for peace
(((Hugs)))
I used to think of it like a hungry dog, and you're taking away his food.
Its the addiction talking, not your son.
Prayers for peace
(((Hugs)))
Restoring myself to sanity
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,018
This is very typical, or it's at least typical of my AH. My husband takes no responsiblity for his actions. He is always quick to blame anyone else for his problems. I have heard him time and time again tell his mother that he favors his sister over him, that his sister is treated differently. Mind you my AH is 33 years old so I have no idea why he is comparing himself to his sister this late in life. The thing is my AH is looking to blame someone or something so he can justiy his drug use.
My AH has flown off the handle at me many times, times when I have not accused him of anything. Addicts stay on the defensive, their guard is always up so they have to do whatever it is they have to do to keep their secret life secret. When my AH gets hositle and says mean things, I just ignore him. I will not feed his fire. He is looking for that reaction. I have to take a step back and remember that my AH is two people. He is a loving husband who is one of the sweetest, caring people that I have ever known and he is also an addict, a manipulating, selfish, lying drug addict. When the addict starts ranting, I walk away and wait for my husband to come back out of hiding.
My AH has flown off the handle at me many times, times when I have not accused him of anything. Addicts stay on the defensive, their guard is always up so they have to do whatever it is they have to do to keep their secret life secret. When my AH gets hositle and says mean things, I just ignore him. I will not feed his fire. He is looking for that reaction. I have to take a step back and remember that my AH is two people. He is a loving husband who is one of the sweetest, caring people that I have ever known and he is also an addict, a manipulating, selfish, lying drug addict. When the addict starts ranting, I walk away and wait for my husband to come back out of hiding.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 540
The behaviour is quite dislikeable it's like I owe him something. I did put my phone on call block, however still calls the cell wich I cant. He is bent on destroying his sisters trip here. She didnt even want to come home because of him, until I told her we had detached from him. Now hes phoning her at our house being Mr.Nice guy to her trying to manipulate her. I'm afraid he is going to cause some problems and she wont want to come and visit with us. Nasty and miserable person!!!!
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Don't answer his calls. Real Simple. Even the cell shows what number is calling. His sister doesn't have to talk to him either.
He is being typical, you are not helping him stay in oblivion and he is very angry. May be more so after he ends up in jail for the fraud he perpetuated.
Don't answer his calls. He will eventually "get it."
Heck when my folks FINALLY took the steps to shut me out I was 33 1/2. they told me if I came to the door it would be shut in my face, and it was, and if I called on the phone (no caller ID back then and no way to block certain numbers) they would hang up and they did.
Took me 2 1/2 more years to find recovery, the last 1 1/2 years living on the streets of Hollyweird and it was all my choices.
Please get on with the business of living your life, remember that everything that comes out of his mouth is just "Quacking" and please do not feel that you have to justify anything. He knows what he is trying to do, he's trying to wear you down to give him MONEY, a roof over his head, etc etc, not taking responsibility at all.
Please take that lovely daughter of yours and go our for a 'girls day'. Have some fun.
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, we do care very much.
Love and hugs,
He is being typical, you are not helping him stay in oblivion and he is very angry. May be more so after he ends up in jail for the fraud he perpetuated.
Don't answer his calls. He will eventually "get it."
Heck when my folks FINALLY took the steps to shut me out I was 33 1/2. they told me if I came to the door it would be shut in my face, and it was, and if I called on the phone (no caller ID back then and no way to block certain numbers) they would hang up and they did.
Took me 2 1/2 more years to find recovery, the last 1 1/2 years living on the streets of Hollyweird and it was all my choices.
Please get on with the business of living your life, remember that everything that comes out of his mouth is just "Quacking" and please do not feel that you have to justify anything. He knows what he is trying to do, he's trying to wear you down to give him MONEY, a roof over his head, etc etc, not taking responsibility at all.
Please take that lovely daughter of yours and go our for a 'girls day'. Have some fun.
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, we do care very much.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 70
Unfortunately this is typical. When I was practicing my sickness I would do whatever I could to project my feelings of shame, regret, and denial on my ex-wife. Then, in the next breath, I would change my tune and tell her how much I loved her and that I wanted her help. I wasn't physically abusive nor did I call her names or threaten her, but the damage of the Jeckyl and Hyde tore her up. In my experience, until he realizes that he has the problem and can surrender, or just be willing to be open to surrender, you cannot do anything to help him. Removing him from your life is not an easy thing to do and hurts immensely, but it has to be done. One final parting bit of experience, when I start to feel like someone is projecting on me I try to step back and realize my part, the rest I use 3 simple words to help me be lifted of it... "It's not mine" meaning that their pain, fear, regret, shame, etc. is their feelings and they are trying to project them onto you. It's not yours.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
I recently tried to patch up the relationship between
my daughter and I. Both of us are at fault.
This has been messy for over 30 years.
I am in recovery...she suspoedly is too.
When I did not agree to do something she wanted
I received a vicious vindictive e mail.
I thought about this...prayed about it and then
replied that I did not wish to continue contact.
Toxic people who disrespect me have no place
in my life. I am not going there again.
She is an adult...as is your son.
Yes! addicts/alcoholics can revert to evil
when they don't get their way.
Sorry for your situation...Prayers for your peace.
my daughter and I. Both of us are at fault.
This has been messy for over 30 years.
I am in recovery...she suspoedly is too.
When I did not agree to do something she wanted
I received a vicious vindictive e mail.
I thought about this...prayed about it and then
replied that I did not wish to continue contact.
Toxic people who disrespect me have no place
in my life. I am not going there again.
She is an adult...as is your son.
Yes! addicts/alcoholics can revert to evil
when they don't get their way.
Sorry for your situation...Prayers for your peace.
Restoring myself to sanity
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,018
Originally Posted by bodychek
Unfortunately this is typical. When I was practicing my sickness I would do whatever I could to project my feelings of shame, regret, and denial on my ex-wife. Then, in the next breath, I would change my tune and tell her how much I loved her and that I wanted her help. I wasn't physically abusive nor did I call her names or threaten her, but the damage of the Jeckyl and Hyde tore her up. In my experience, until he realizes that he has the problem and can surrender, or just be willing to be open to surrender, you cannot do anything to help him. Removing him from your life is not an easy thing to do and hurts immensely, but it has to be done. One final parting bit of experience, when I start to feel like someone is projecting on me I try to step back and realize my part, the rest I use 3 simple words to help me be lifted of it... "It's not mine" meaning that their pain, fear, regret, shame, etc. is their feelings and they are trying to project them onto you. It's not yours.
Well said, I think I have been looking for this answer for a long time.. it brings a lot of clairity to my situation at hand.
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 6
I had to chuckle at the title to your post. My husband is a crack addict and have come to find that no behavior is 'off-limits'. Anything is typical. I can't tell you how many times I would tell myself there is no way that he would possibly do 'such and such' (insert any bizarre situation you want)... and sure enough he certainly would. The best thing I found was to detach and repeat over and over that I cannot control it.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 20
Yup – in my experience it’s typical and, as their disease progresses, predictable as well.
Addicts are master manipulators. It's part of what they do in order to survive. My son is also an addict. For years he manipulated me as well, by using what resembles the drama triangle.
Goes something like this.
PERSECUTOR - It's All Your Fault
VICTIM - Poor Me
RESCUER - Let Me Help You (using benevolence to get his way).
After spending time in my own recovery, I can say that he doesn't get away with it any more. He tries because it’s what he knows how to do, but what he says and does no longer has the impact on me it all once had. From time to time he tries to guilt me into complying with whatever it is he needs, but even that has lost its effect.
I don’t live with my addict son anymore (actually he’s in jail now), but I get glimmers of his tactics from time to time and now I just smile and alert him that I am on to him. Or I’ll respond “nice try”. Sometimes he knows what he’s doing – sometimes not, but I know when I’m being manipulated and now I understand why. It’s part of the addict’s disease. It’s part of their codependency. As others have shared, active addicts do not take responsibility for their actions. I don’t think they know how to, so they project onto others to get their needs met, and they’ll use any tactic possible. Even when it hurts others. Especially when it hurts others because the disease is so darned powerful. Often they operate from a position of entitlement. My son used to bully or whine and for years it was easier to give in than to put up with his stuff. That was his tactic and it worked.
I agree about the phone thing. Don’t answer.
For the record, I didn’t like my son either. I loved him, but he was the last person on the planet I wanted to spend time with. His behaviors and manipulations were simply too unpleasant. Once I stopped playing the game by my son’s rules, things got better. Not easier. Better.
Good luck and have a nice visit with your daughter.
Addicts are master manipulators. It's part of what they do in order to survive. My son is also an addict. For years he manipulated me as well, by using what resembles the drama triangle.
Goes something like this.
PERSECUTOR - It's All Your Fault
VICTIM - Poor Me
RESCUER - Let Me Help You (using benevolence to get his way).
After spending time in my own recovery, I can say that he doesn't get away with it any more. He tries because it’s what he knows how to do, but what he says and does no longer has the impact on me it all once had. From time to time he tries to guilt me into complying with whatever it is he needs, but even that has lost its effect.
I don’t live with my addict son anymore (actually he’s in jail now), but I get glimmers of his tactics from time to time and now I just smile and alert him that I am on to him. Or I’ll respond “nice try”. Sometimes he knows what he’s doing – sometimes not, but I know when I’m being manipulated and now I understand why. It’s part of the addict’s disease. It’s part of their codependency. As others have shared, active addicts do not take responsibility for their actions. I don’t think they know how to, so they project onto others to get their needs met, and they’ll use any tactic possible. Even when it hurts others. Especially when it hurts others because the disease is so darned powerful. Often they operate from a position of entitlement. My son used to bully or whine and for years it was easier to give in than to put up with his stuff. That was his tactic and it worked.
I agree about the phone thing. Don’t answer.
For the record, I didn’t like my son either. I loved him, but he was the last person on the planet I wanted to spend time with. His behaviors and manipulations were simply too unpleasant. Once I stopped playing the game by my son’s rules, things got better. Not easier. Better.
Good luck and have a nice visit with your daughter.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 328
The addict theme songs:
Poor me, poor me - pour me a drink (or drug)
I know, I know, I know
You don't understand
I'm not that bad
You like her (him, them, the dog) better - followed by Poor me, poor me - pour me a drink.
They specialize in being victims (and the pay off is, then they don't have to accept consequences of their actions - or be responsible). And victims never recover!
Love in recovery,
Dottie Lou
Poor me, poor me - pour me a drink (or drug)
I know, I know, I know
You don't understand
I'm not that bad
You like her (him, them, the dog) better - followed by Poor me, poor me - pour me a drink.
They specialize in being victims (and the pay off is, then they don't have to accept consequences of their actions - or be responsible). And victims never recover!
Love in recovery,
Dottie Lou
get it, give it, grow in it
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calif coast
Posts: 3,167
Don't let yourself be manipulated.
Try to remember this is his addiction speaking.
You are the "right" one, because you are only responsible for your side of the sidewalk.
You are detaching and not enabling because it is best for you.
He must figure out what is best for him.
When my son was in active addiction, I took a car back that I loaned him
because he broke the agreement and in a very short time there were minor and major dents all over it letting me know he was dangerous in a car. His reaction was to punish me by refusing to speak to me. In addiction they are selfish and can only see their own needs. They then try to punish us. Their behavior can only feel like punishment if we let it.
Hugs to you as you struggle with your beloved son + his addiction. It truly is a family disease. Watching them suffer makes us suffer even when we try so hard to detach.
Try to remember this is his addiction speaking.
You are the "right" one, because you are only responsible for your side of the sidewalk.
You are detaching and not enabling because it is best for you.
He must figure out what is best for him.
When my son was in active addiction, I took a car back that I loaned him
because he broke the agreement and in a very short time there were minor and major dents all over it letting me know he was dangerous in a car. His reaction was to punish me by refusing to speak to me. In addiction they are selfish and can only see their own needs. They then try to punish us. Their behavior can only feel like punishment if we let it.
Hugs to you as you struggle with your beloved son + his addiction. It truly is a family disease. Watching them suffer makes us suffer even when we try so hard to detach.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: homebased
Posts: 408
Originally Posted by katie44
I'm afraid he is going to cause some problems and she wont want to come and visit with us.
At times I worried that my AS's behavior would cause my other children to detach from the family....why would anyone want to be around the addict and the insane mom who was obsessing and fretting her life away??
with time I learned to let go....I stopped making decisions based on where my AS was and what he was doing....I stopped putting our lives on hold while we waited for him to get it together....
Go out with your daughter....enjoy her visit...try to minimize your son's contact by not answering the phone....keep him and his behavior out of your conversations....
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,287
There is this idea of rock bottom......that an addict has to reach it in order to finally realize they need help. My AH says everyone has their "own" rock bottom....meaning it is different for each person.
Imagine a person falling.....they grab on to anything they can, anything....in order to survive. For the addict, reaching rock bottom IMHO is like this falling--doing anything they can to stop from hitting bottom. Seems like your son is afraid and he will lash out as a way to lessen his fall--grabbing on to anything--real or imagined.
You are doing what you need to do. You are not enabling him to continue using. Like laurie says, he will eventually "get it"....he will realize you will not make it ok for him to hurt himself or others.
(((((HUGS)))))
Imagine a person falling.....they grab on to anything they can, anything....in order to survive. For the addict, reaching rock bottom IMHO is like this falling--doing anything they can to stop from hitting bottom. Seems like your son is afraid and he will lash out as a way to lessen his fall--grabbing on to anything--real or imagined.
You are doing what you need to do. You are not enabling him to continue using. Like laurie says, he will eventually "get it"....he will realize you will not make it ok for him to hurt himself or others.
(((((HUGS)))))
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Katie)))
I, too, agree this is typical.
Ya know, how some kids will throw a temper tantrum when they don't get their way? That's what he's doing.
He's going to lash out at you, because he sees you as "safe"....you won't stop loving him. It sucks, but it happens.
I agree with everyone else....I wouldn't talk to him. He is mad that he's having to pay consequences for his actions, and he's taking it out on you.
Please, enjoy your time with your daughter. It will take him a while to realize you're not going to tolerate his behavior, and he will try whatever he can think of to push your buttons.
I know it's hard, but he's going to keep doing it until he finds out it's not going to work and he won't get to keep smoking crack without consequences.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
I, too, agree this is typical.
Ya know, how some kids will throw a temper tantrum when they don't get their way? That's what he's doing.
He's going to lash out at you, because he sees you as "safe"....you won't stop loving him. It sucks, but it happens.
I agree with everyone else....I wouldn't talk to him. He is mad that he's having to pay consequences for his actions, and he's taking it out on you.
Please, enjoy your time with your daughter. It will take him a while to realize you're not going to tolerate his behavior, and he will try whatever he can think of to push your buttons.
I know it's hard, but he's going to keep doing it until he finds out it's not going to work and he won't get to keep smoking crack without consequences.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 540
Thanks all, just needed some clarity. His behaviour is somewhat of the devil and seems to be getting worse. He constantly justifies his actions. I did put all my phones on call block from him, however this morning he walks to a phone booth and gets through to me. He is to appear in court on a fraud charge ( one that i have charged him with) He wanted me too take him being that I am the one that has caused this. Unbelievable! I really need to stop talking to him at all. My nerves cant take much more of him. Our business is teteering on the verge of bankruptcy, he knows this yet still continues the manipulation. Last month he pulled a fast one and called the credit card company, pretended to be my spouse obtained a pin number and withdrew 1600.00 off spouses card. He even went in to our home and made the call from there.
We reported it to mastercard and an investigator called back said they would not remove the charges we would have to pay the card. Reason being " the call was monitored from our home to obtain the pin" secondly the investigator asked my spouse " how do you know it wasnt your wife?" they said even if we charged him they would not take the charges off. The even said we must have given him permission! He has racked this card $11,000.00 in cash withdrawals. We did sign investigative papers last year to the mastercard, they did not take the charges off. They have told us thi is a family issue.
Sorry just venting today this kid will drive us in to bankruptcy if I dont stay 100 miles away from him.
We reported it to mastercard and an investigator called back said they would not remove the charges we would have to pay the card. Reason being " the call was monitored from our home to obtain the pin" secondly the investigator asked my spouse " how do you know it wasnt your wife?" they said even if we charged him they would not take the charges off. The even said we must have given him permission! He has racked this card $11,000.00 in cash withdrawals. We did sign investigative papers last year to the mastercard, they did not take the charges off. They have told us thi is a family issue.
Sorry just venting today this kid will drive us in to bankruptcy if I dont stay 100 miles away from him.
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