cen616

My relapsing A has a 12-year-old daughter who lives with us. She is not aware he's using, but has told me several times she fears he will (since she does know he's drinking). She's been through all this before. I haven't.

She does know I've got a short fuse lately and that there is definite tension in the house. She does know he's ignoring her and/or shouting at her for little or no offense. She does know that we are shorter on money than usual.

So, she asks a lot of questions: Are you and daddy fighting? Why is daddy so mad? Why is daddy not talking to me? Are you going to throw us out? What will you do if he starts doing coke or crack?

I've tried to reassure her but be honest enough to say that, yes, daddy and I are going through hard times, that his relapse (which she only knows as drinking) is making me unhappy, that he has problems and they are nothing to do with her or how much he loves her...

But, I've avoided just flat out telling her the truth of the situation...Is it even my place to do so? Since he's still got some reasonableness left, I thought about asking my A if it was OK to tell her...tell him that I think it would be best for it all to be in the open. I'm almost sure he'd say "No", though. He's ashamed and guilty and already hating himself for this whole thing.

Any ideas?

dixied

Hi,

This is what I have learned from a friend who had a similar experience...........


1. A situation such as this is best "diffused" by going to a counselor and having someone that can answer the 12 year olds questions right on the spot.....or at least listen and "validate" her right to ask questions such as these. Someone that is trained and not emotionally involved.

2. If $$$ for a counselor is an isuue the school guidance counselor can point you to resources that are either free or at a nominal price.

3. She (the 12 year old) is expressing her concern and uneasiness by asking you up front what is going on. She deserves to have her questions addressed. I think she is owed that............to have her feelings acknowledged.

4. If her dad is on drugs , IMHO, it is up to you to "take the bull by the horns" so to speak and check into resources for this child on your own. She evidently looks up to you. She feels comfortable with you expressing her feelings. Doesn't she deserve the same honesty and a little compassion too? She is probably very afraid right now.

Just my opinion.....but I do send prayers your way.................dixied

cen616

Anvilhead, I'm absolutely sure that taking them both in has backfired a bit for just the reason you say. I think part of him wants to stay clean and sober and be a real family member. There's the other part, though, that rationalizes, "Hey, my woman takes care of everything...she's practical, responsible, and healthy, so if I f up, it won't do too much damage..." It sucks, but I know it's true.

But, here I am. The situation is what it is now. The child will be affected, absolutely. I only want to do the right thing.

I agree with you that it's not my job to out him...But, I can't LIE to her, either. So far, I just haven't told her everything. A perfectly reasonable thing when discussing adult problems with a kid, I think.

My fear is she will ask, outright: Is daddy doing drugs again? I can't say "no"...that's a lie.

duet_4-8

Hi,
I have three kids with my exah, two of whom are now adults. I thought they didn't know what was going on in our home, but they did. IMHO, if she is old enough to ask the tough questions, then she deserves honesty. Not bashing her dad in any way, but at the same time not condoning his behavior, making excuses for him, or dismissing her feelings.

I learned in my family of origin that my feelings didn't matter and that I wasn't supposed to expect honesty from anyone in my family. That turned me into a raging codependent that spent 25 of her 50 years in an abusive marriage to a mentally unstable, drug-addicted man.

You didn't say how long you have been married to her dad, but it is great that she trusts you enough to ask you these questions. Kids really, really need an adult that they trust.

Don't expect your H to do anything positive in this situation until he admits the problem to himself. You say he's 'ashamed and guilty'....then why doesn't he get back into treatment??

Hang in there and remember to take care of yourself, too.

cen616

duet_4-8: I'm not married to her dad. That's the problem. She has lived in my home for the last eight months. She calls me her "stepmom"...I call her my "stepdaughter"...but there's nothing legal there.

You say he's 'ashamed and guilty'....then why doesn't he get back into treatment??


That's the million dollar question! He has told me over and over that he needs help, needs to get to a meeting, needs to do ...something. But, he hasn't done it. I can't tell you why...I can only guess it's because he doesn't really want to.

But, his guilt and shame are still very, very real. I can see that.

duet_4-8

Oh, if you aren't married I guess it does complicate the matter. But I still think it's great that she trusts you enough to talk to you. I would've given my right arm at age 12 to have had an adult that I could trust.

Seems to me that he might be telling you that because he knows that is what you want to hear, and that is how he can control you and keep things the way they are, which is comfortable to him. He can do whatever he wants and you pick up the pieces. Sounds just like my exah.

The question is, "What do YOU want from the relationship"? Have you checked into any alanon meetings or counseling for yourself? Because something is keeping you locked into this dysfunctional relationship.

Not said to offend you in any way. That is the question I had to ask myself a couple of years ago, and the answers weren't very pretty. It was my own codependency that kept me doing the dance with a man that treated me and his kids like yesterday's trash.

I got the satisfaction of being the martyr that took care of everything while he did whatever he pleased, and I was drowning in bitterness and resentment. It's no way to live.

:ghug

cen616

here's a post I did in another thread that gives my whole story...

<snip>About a year ago, I reconnected with an old acquaintance--the younger brother of an old friend of mine. I hit it off with him immediately and a romance quickly developed. We're both about 40. He's got a couple of kids. One with him and one with his ex (different mothers).

He was upfront about his history: substance abuse problems (just about any substance, but crack's what took him down all the way), over 2 years sober (with the help of AA/NA), recent relapse, but working on recovery again. He'd bottomed out on that relapse a few months before I met him and was struggling to come back again--working a program and trying to piece his life back together. He lived about 2 hours away, in a town I used to live in, when we "remet", but had nothing there but his 12-year-old daughter, of whom he has full custody. At the time, she was staying with his mother until he had his life in order.

Since he had little to nothing and no real prospects, I let him come to visit me to look for a job here in my town. He found one quickly. From the beginning, he attended AA, daily, and an NA meeting when he could. I let him stay and work, and a couple of months later, let his daughter come, too. We agreed to take it month by month, not to commit to living together long-term right off the bat. The idea was, if our relationship worked, great--if not, maybe he'd at least have a foothold here to build a new life.

Things were good for about 5 months. We began functioning as a little family. His daughter and I bonded pretty well. She began calling me her "stepmom". He paid 1/2 my bills, participated in family life, and stayed clean and sober.

It wasn't all rosy, of course: He's an addict and his struggle to stay sober was difficult. He had all the "A" traits--irritability, overreaction, bouts of extreme laziness, self-centeredness--but he was trying. I, myself, had no experience with addiction. There was none in my history, family, etc. I consider myself pretty sensible and stable--though certainly not without my own neuroses and problems--and have a firm spiritual foundation. I loved him (still do) and did what I could to support him through the ups and downs, while still taking care of myself. Though I didn't really see the whole picture, and couldn't really know what I was taking on, I tried to be as proactive as possible. Right after he came down, he said that if I was going to be in a relationship with him, I should probably start looking into Al-Anon. I did. I bought books, went to some meetings, and got reading whatever I could find online. Most of what I found had to do with people living with active addiction, so I didn't really relate to a lot of it, but I kept on using the resources. Some of the stuff specific to living with sobriety was helpful, and I figured the rest would be helpful if he ever relapsed. I hoped he wouldn't, of course, but was trying to fully prepare myself for that eventuality.

I'm thankful I did. He is relapsing right now. I've learned over the last 5 months how insidious this disease is and seen the stages of relapse play out. First he got apathetic about his program, making excuses not to go to meetings. Then, it was talking about how he "probably would" relapse. Then, it was "alcohol was never really the problem, so I can have a beer now and then". I guess most of you can guess the rest. He had no drug contacts or buddies here, no exposure to that culture, no exposure to "triggers" other than the ones that are internal to him. But, about a month ago--he disappeared for 6 hours and came home crying. He told me he'd "f@#$ed up". For some reason, unknown even to him, he went seeking. He used coke that night.

We got through that night and there was no more use for a couple of weeks (I know because we went to Florida and he had no way of getting any). However, the week we were back, he cashed a check of his and did it again. He missed work that day, so he got "caught". He, again, was apologetic and said he needed help. I told him I'd drive him to a meeting, treatment, whatever he needed. He said, "tomorrow". It never happened. A few more days with no using went by, then he slipped again. Made it easy to "catch" him again, too. We repeated the scene, once again.

He is asking for my help and says he does NOT want to do this again. He asked me to take his phone and delete certain numbers and received/made calls. His recall is so bad, he figured he would forget the number of the dealer he'd been contacting. He also asked me to spend his most recent day off (which was also his pay day) with him to prevent him from using the opportunity and money to go pick up. I did. I feel these efforts are good signs, but I also know he can't rely on me to keep him under control. I work and have other things to do. Keeping him "under my thumb" is not only impractical, but not a solution and not the way I want to live. He's got to get back in a program or get professional help of some sort. This has to be his responsibility, not mine. I've said that to him and he KNOWS it, but he hasn't taken the steps needed.

I'm not stupid. I know this means he's not ready to stop. I've already set up some boundaries to protect myself (banned him from using my car and changed the PIN code on the debit card), but as long as he's relapsing and in my house I know he might steal from me, bring this crap into the house and/or indulge in other completely unacceptable behaviors. I've already contemplated another boundary in my head, but haven't stated it out loud yet because I am not sure I want to stick to it. Basically, if he slips one more time, I think I will tell him to leave until HE makes the decision to get sober. I don't consider this "giving up" on him. I believe people can and do get sober, even crackheads (he has not used crack YET, thankfully, but I guess that's the next logical step), and he might be one of the ones who can do it. Maybe not, but that's for him to work out. If he can, he is welcome back in my life until the next relapse. If not...well...I will feel much sorrow, but I can't live with active addiction.

If I put him out, though, the only place for him to go is out-of-town. He'll lose his job and other things he's worked for during his 7 months of sobriety. Here's the hard part...If it were just him and me, this would be a simple equation. But, there's this 12-year-old girl here, too, who has spent the last 8 months adjusting to a new life and city and school, making friends, and building a relationship with the first "mom" figure she's had in many, many years. If I send him away, there's no chance he would try to take her with him. He does, at least, have enough sense to know that he can't care for her if using. She is unaware of the drug use, but knows he's relapsed on drinking, and has been terrified I'm going to "throw them out". I've told her I won't make her leave but, if it comes down to it, I don't really have any legal rights to keep her here. Her "real family" could come lay claim to her at any time. I am helpless to protect her stability if he's not here. She has become almost like my daughter, now, and I feel an obligation to her...<snip>

splendra

Where is the girl's birth mother? If she is still living why is she not a part of this equation?

I feel for your situation. It is quite obvious that you want to do right by the child for which I commend you she does not deserve this any more than you do. Just don't forget to take care of yourself...

cen616

The child's birth mother is 2 hours away and barely in her life. She is also an addict, never been in recovery, never works, and is seriously bipolar. She also lost a limb about 6 months ago in a drug-related incident and has been in assisted-living, due to the physical rehab, etc., until just last week. She may be headed in the right direction, now, but only time will tell.

The reason my A has full custody is because the mother is absolutely unfit and unable to take care of her...in the past, she has even been a serious danger to her. For all his faults, my A is a better parent and caretaker and the courts agree. She has visitation rights but rarely exercises them (sees her maybe once a year).

marle

Does the court know that he is a relapsing crack addict. Not good parent material as I have seen what living with a crack addict can do to young girls. I hope that you find a solution so that this precious child does not have to suffer the anxiety of not knowing what her future may be. Either way her dad is changing the person this young girl will become. Hugs, Marle

outtolunch

I am at a loss for words other than to say how badly I feel for your situation. This is a magilla.

justanothrdrunk

1. Is it true?
2. Does it need to be said?
3. Does it need to be said by you? (meaning, are you the best person to say it or would it be better if said by someone else.)

Sounds to me like #3 is a no.

My mother is constantly mining my wife for information about me. I don't think my mom trusts me to tell her the truth. And she has a right to be untrusting of me due to my past lying to her. But my wife is constantly telling my mother, if you want to know how he's doing, you should ask him yourself.

I don't know if the above works with your situation or not, but that's what we do when family asks the tough questions. We always tell them to go to the source.

cen616

marle...no. The courts haven't been involved since his daughter was 2 years old. He has custody. Could mom take him back to court due to his relapse? Absolutely...but, she has never made a move to get her back in all this time, and he's been battling the crack/coke for about 5 or 6 years (including his nearly 3 years sober--though not continuous--during that time). I doubt she'll make that move unless he leaves her with ME for a prolonged period of time. Even then, it may not happen.

justadrunk...I agree with this tactic and have been using it, so far. I really, really like your 3 points, though. I didn't have it that organized

Basically, if she asks me something about MY part, I answer honestly. If she asks me something about HIS part, I tell her to ask him. She rarely does, though. She thinks it'll lead to a fight.

She and he have been fighting a lot. No doubt that his addiction is a major factor, but there is also the fact that she's 12. There's a whole lot of fighting about nothing on her part, too...with me and him both. We are "ruining her life" because she can't have a new pair of flip-flops or she "hates us" because someone won't forego their own plans to drop her at the mall on a moment's notice. Just the other day she was being seriously deprived of her "needs" because I refused to buy her a new pair of capris. So, it's very difficult for them to communicate. Both of them are all about ME, ME, ME--just for different reasons. Thankfully, despite all the dysfunction there is an enormous amount of love between them. They've been through hell and back together and the bond is strong.

Last night, she asked me if I had talked to him about the way she's feeling (neglected). I said I hadn't, but that it's been hard to find time (true). I also (reflecting on things here) suggested to her that it might mean more if she talked with him directly. She refused because she thought it would lead to a fight. I said, "Well, why don't you put it in a letter? That way you can think about what you want to say and put some thought into how to say it...There won't be any heat of the moment reactions. He can read it in his own time, and you won't be there when he does." She is a very bright girl and writes well above her grade level, so I think this might be the best way to do it. I offered to read it, first, but ONLY if she wanted me to. Anyway, if she wants to ask him anything there, that will give her the opportunity.

On a positive note, he hasn't done coke in 11 days. Keeping fingers crossed.

splendra

I believe she needs her feelings validated. She obviously has a hunch that he has relapsed or she would not be asking the quested she is asking.

What bothers me about her questions is that she does know what is going on a it is not being validated to her. Denial is learned behavior. To me one of the ways that denial starts is by not having feelings validated. Later in life she might used this "skill" to not recognize what is going on in her life.

cen616

Well, just to update, dad and daughter had a long talk yesterday. I wasn't there and don't know exactly what was said, but she expressed her feelings and he listened and responded without anger.

Still keeping fingers crossed