frankly

Let me pose a question to you Noah. You are insured, you pay your way, you pay your taxes, then Lord forbid you get very very sick. Your insurance pays, but it's not enough, you've reached the limits of the policy, because you've exceeded your medical leave at work, you loose your job and income. You still need medical services to make you well so that you can go back to work. You apply SSD but after years it's determined that you aren't totally and completely disabled, so no help there. You've worked hard all of your life and have done without basic things just to save a few dollars for your retirement, now you've gone through that money. You apply to the government for help, turned down because you own your home and maybe a vehicle, nothing elaborate just basic needs things. You are told that they can't help you until you have exhaused and sold everything of value. You're going to die if you don't. So you do what you have to do. Now everything is gone, you can't afford rent let alone food, you are one step away from homelessness, you finelly get the government to help you, but you are looked down apon by people that used to be your piers. In their eyes you are sponging off of them. You get the medical attention that you desperately needed that started the whole mess. You get well and start over. Get a new job, get back on your feet again but you happen to live in a state that allows debt collectors to force the sale of your new home to pay for some of those unpaid medical bills. For the next seven years anything and everything you own is up for grabs, they garnish your new job. That new job doesn't offer insurance and the stress of everything makes you sick again, this time you have no savings no hope.

I know it may seem like a stretch, but we are all just two steps away from homelessness. Just because some people abuse the government system in place to help people, that doesn't mean that the majority weren't good hard working people that pulled their own weight, that circumstances beyond their control turned their lives into hell. A sick child, cancer, mental illness any number of things.

Just something to think about. Looking into someone else's window, doesn't always tell the whole story. Things are not always as they appear.

JMHO
B

splendra

Noah-

All people need health care rich, poor middle, class,.... 40% tax on 100,000 lowers the income quite a bit....

I would say they are funding the health care of several others plus paying insurance premiums.

All residences would include rich or poor which I think is entirely fair seeing it is something we all need. People of higher income levels do pay more taxes as a general rule. I personally would not resent them for getting free health care too just like I would not resent them have other basic needs met like food and shelter.

Many people of higher income levels have worked to get to where they are and are very generous when it come to helping others and I would think the ones who don't help others are in a minority...

it is a form of prejudice to resent anyone for who they are or what they have or do not have.

Please refrain from attacking others on this thread. Lets be civil with one another. Taxes and such do cause tempers to flair so lets keep our heads cool in talking about this subject pleasssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...

Emimily

thank you, frankly. thank you SO MUCH.

god, i'm almost crying.

Noah812

Emmily sorry about your mothers situation. I stated those who need help should be help so your preaching to the wrong person I agree with you. Now am I going to help everyone whether they need it or not...no. people work to survive and handouts are for those who need them not the rich or wealthy. By your statement about Reagn and Bush Sr. you brought politics in to this arena. Your obviously a liberal democrat and your stance will not agree with mine I am a republican. Sorry your family and mother is welcome to recive help as far as i am concernedtill want to say I am wrong then I dont know waht about, as I agreed with you.

Emimily

i am someone who believes in helping people. if there's a sick person, they deserve to be well. it's not my place to judge.

i always thought that was the golden rule, treat others as you want to be treated.

yeah, my mom does deserve help. she should've had it before she had to sell her car, 2nd mortgage her house, and get to a point of almost total immobilization.

splendra

The thing is many people work and cannot afford insurance and make too much to qualify for medicare. There is no provision for someone like (((((emillie's mom))))).

Someone saying as far as I am concerned she should get help is not going to cut it. I have plenty of compassion for people loosing everything due to huge medical bills but, I am powerless to help them. sending my love is not going to help. The way our taxes are spent needs to change and that is the bottom line I think...

splendra

It really kills me that many of the people I know who are strung out on drugs and alcohol do not seek treatment because because their insurance does not cover it or they do not have funds to go. They can afford another bottle of liquor or hit of dope because lets face it it is cheaper than rehab $10,000 up front is nothing to sneeze at. Yes there are free rehabs out there and many people have ODed waiting to get in I suppose due to over crowding I suppose...

splendra

Unfortunately there are women and children and men dying in the streets of the richest nation in the world. Most people do not become homeless because they are lazy they become homeless mostly because they are sick....and that is a real crime....

Noah812

Sorry i tried to share my point of view. Mods please delete all my posts on this thread.

splendra

Noah please do not feel that your post ought to be deleted....

Noah812

No, delete them please as no one reads what is typed anyway only what they want to interpret it to mean. Enjoy your debate...should be a win, seems one sided!

Sav

The real question behind the health care problem is;

" Does human life have value just because it exists?"

Don't just leap up and say "of course!" Think about it. Does this country have such a moral standard that we can honestly say that we feel everyone has a right to get the health care needed to keep living/save their life when needed?

Right now, the obvious answer is no. This country doesn't feel that way (or at least, it's government). If we really felt that way, we'd be rushing a proper bill through.

If we won't allow for universal healthcare, which, by the way, I have family in Canada, and they're fairly happy with it. Not totally, but they prefer it to what they see in America. The one member of my family who doesn't agree is the doctor, who, coincidentally, moved to America and set up practice here. (said he needed to make more money to pay alimony on three divorces!!!) At the very least we need affordable health care. This is possibly the only industry that charges outrageous fees for it's services. It's a form of extortion. Afterall, if a new car is to expensive, you don't buy it. So what, you walk.
But a new heart???
Our present system is so bloated and ineffective that the very nature of it drives up the prices of insurance companies and doctor's bills.

We may want to remember that a major problem in our health care system is the high prices for doctors' insurance coverage that settlements form lawsuits is creating. No other country has such incredible payouts. That's something else that should be addressed. But for obvious reasons, isn't.

marle

Here in Michigan, Blue Cross/Blue Shield claims to be non-profit. I believe one of the reasons that insurance is so expensive is because those that were covered under a group rate are guaranteed coverage for 18 months if they so choose to continue their coverage when they leave their employer. It is subsidized by those who are still being covered. So I picked up a Young Blue policy for my daughter for $50 a month. It has a $1,000 deductible and covers 70% of the rest. The cap for each year that she would be required to pay is $2500. Next May the law will change and the group customers will no longer be subsidizing these policies. Let's see if we get a reduction in our premium. I highly doubt it, but the ones who are paying under the group rate will probably not be able to afford the rise in cost so there will be another segment that will drop their insurance. Something has to change. I would pay an increase in taxes as long as it was fair so that everyone would be guaranteed basic health care. Marle

kj0975

I have to say I agree that everyone should have health insurance. I am one of those people who cant afford health insurance sure I was offered cobra when I lost my job but in reality who can afford I think 600/mo? Thats not even what my unemployment is. What makes it even worse here is that they just raised the Dr's malpractice insurance by some ridiculous amount. So where do u think the Dr's are going to re-coup that rise in insurance. Of course the Patients will have to pay more to see the dr. This of course wasnt done for the patients it was done to milk more money out of the Dr's and the patients. Health ins costs rise every year from anywhere to 5-11%. I dont even get a raise high enough to cover that rise. Its pretty pathetic in my opinion what the people who work with OUR tax dollars are doing to the american public.

I am a chronic pain sufferer I need knee replacement unfortunatly without ins I cannot afford to go see my Dr who treats me. I do have an appointment there though and I was told payment was DUE at the time of being seen and its about 150 to walk in the door...... 150/15 min with a Dr. I think thats just cruel. I think if u dont have ins the Dr's should be able to give u a little break to help u at least get the help u need. Yet I dont qualify for any assistance because I was told get this.... "I'm sorry I cant help u unfortunatly u dont know the system, If u did I could give u everything". Wtf does that mean? Well after looking around and I noticed I was the only one without a cell phone, without a nice car, with out a leather jacket. I realized what he meant is that I was honest. I dont think thats fair either.

I do know that there are state funded ins programs that are through bcbs and the plan is about 150/mo up to 3000.00. Which is reasonable yet when your struggling to put food on your table or keep a roof over your head 150 seems like a million dollars. Also u have to do ALOT of leg work to even find out about these programs the government doesnt advertise these. Alot of phone calls, alot of chasing, but if u have the time its worth it. When my fiances job was sent to china last year I though we were going to have to sell it all just to cover his monthy RX's which run about 750/mo. I did alot of research and the 150 was worth it for him. Its just so frustrating I have worked my entire life, I have paid my dues, I dont expect nothing for free, I would just like to be able to go to the Dr when I'm sick. I have had I believe a sinus infection for about a week now I sit and suffer cause I personally cannot afford to go to the Dr's. Its frustrating and just upsets me. I think anyone who is sick should be able to go to the Dr's without having to run up a credit card, sell their car, sell the house.

Jwife22

I'm not arguing either side of this because I don't want to be in a debate, it puts me in a bad place in my head, but please be aware that if you have a local health department, I'm almost 100% sure that they cannot deny you service. They take payment on a income based scale. The less you make, the less you pay. Well, atleast in SC where I am and I know in NC as well. Also, I believe in all states, all children under the age of 18 can be insured by the state for little or no premium. No, it may not be the absolute BEST healthcare that you find, but it is something and they have their own pharmacies as well.
Also, regardless of whether or not you have insurance, Walmart offers a whole list of generic prescriptions (including antibiotics, antidiuretics, bp meds, anti seizure meds, etc) for $4.00 per prescription, I believe Target has started doing it as well.

There are a plethora of options out there if you research and look. I'm not saying this works for ALL people but some of the people don't know about local and state options for getting some sort of health care.

This is a link to your local health department by state http://healthguideusa.org/local_health_departments.htm

splendra

(((((kj))))

Unfortunately there are too many stories like yours. It breaks my heart over and over to hear about it. I used to work in a hospital setting and I quit because of people getting less care than they needed and dying as a result because they did not have insurance.

I think one of the reasons I have learned so much about natural health care is because in many cases it is cheaper and I can find out how to treat myself for most things. As I get older though it worries me. I intend to do everything I can to keep my health good by eating good foods, exercising and noticing the signals my body sends to me. I

have never really trusted doctors to begin with especially when I see that money is more important to them than human life. I know not all doctors are like this but there is enough of them out there that it concerns me.

Medical school should not cost so much so that people who do graduate won't be in a situation where they have to make choices based on how much they owe for tuition...Plus there maybe people who could make good doctors but, can't even consider it due to the cost of going to school.

If insurance companies and drug companies did not have so much control over health care it would cause a major shift in the wealth in this country and that is probably the main reason Universal health care is not in force today in this country.

splendra

Thanx (((JWife)))

I have found that most health departments are geared more towards children which is good they also handle communicable diseases which is good too just not enough...

Jwife22

Some are but I know for a fact that if you are sick and you go in, they will treat you, whether it be with anti biotics,etc. I've had a family member that needed their resources and was able to get help.

They are geared to children but will not refuse help to someone who is sick.

Lovestoomuch

Amen!

Sav

Yeah...well...you're right, but having come from a very expensive blue cross/blue shleld plan to medicaid, I can tell you there's a HUGE difference.

I had full dental under my private health care. Did you know that government dental insurance (medicaid) consists of filling cavities or ripping your teeth out and giving you bad dentures? That's it, no in between, nothing else.
The only thing medicaid is really good for is handing out pills (which is, ironcially, why a lot of us ended up here!)

So we have a health care industry that supports addiction. Most surgical procedures and non-drug therpapy (physical or mental) are considered "unneccesary".

Ironically, what we need isn't universal health care, but a healthy and balanced economy, where people can earn a viable wage, have enough left over to deposit to a savings account for retirement or emergency, and AFFORDABLE health insurance with rates that aren't jacked up due to a poorly funded and improperly managed payout system when dealing with doctors vs. insurance. Our health care industry wastes billions of dollars a year the way they do things now. If THAT could be fixed, perhaps it wouldn't cost $500,000 for a new heart or liver! And people would have the resources to deal with medical emergencies.