Health Care Bill HR676
the girl can't help it
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
Health Care Bill HR676
There is a proposed health care bill that would make health care available to all US residents and citizens for free.
This could save many lives and prevent many people from losing their homes due to large hospital bills.
The reason I do not feel this post is not off topic here is because there is a provision in this bill for free substance abuse treatment. This alone to me makes it worth trying to get it passed. Hopefully you will consider writing to your representatives about this very important bill. here is a link to the wording of the bill:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...h676ih.txt.pdf
I look forward to reading your thoughts and concerns...
This could save many lives and prevent many people from losing their homes due to large hospital bills.
The reason I do not feel this post is not off topic here is because there is a provision in this bill for free substance abuse treatment. This alone to me makes it worth trying to get it passed. Hopefully you will consider writing to your representatives about this very important bill. here is a link to the wording of the bill:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...h676ih.txt.pdf
I look forward to reading your thoughts and concerns...
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: My House
Posts: 1,122
I have to agree with Noah. I have heard from several who have been to Canada that the healthcare there is no good. I get a little concerned, too, about the quality of doctors that we would be waiting 18 months to see, b/c they are taking a huge paycut if healthcare is "free." I'm no expert, but this doesn't sound like a good idea.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Tawas, MI
Posts: 3,683
We need an overhaul of our healthcare. This is not new. Many attempts have been made over the years to make available health care for everyone. Something does need to be done. When we have a system where honest, hard-working people do not have access to good affordable health care, it is a crime. When my daughter was no longer able to be covered by my health care plan, they offered to continue her coverage under the Cobra plan at a cost of almost $600 a month. You gotta be kidding. Marle
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,068
There is a proposed health care bill that would make health care available to all US residents and citizens for free.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: here and now
Posts: 1,291
The United States spends far more on health care than any other country in the world, but ranks only 37th in the overall quality of health care it provides, according to the World Health Organization.
The U.S. is the only industrialized country that does not provide universal health care. More than 44.3 million Americans have no health insurance, and tens of millions more are underinsured. Private corporations pay less than 20% of health costs. Thus, even if you have insurance, you may not be able to afford the care you need, and some treatments may not be covered at all.
Dr. Steffie Woolhandler of Harvard Medical School points out that "we are already spending enough to provide every American with superb medical care - $5,775 per person this year [2003]. That's 42% higher than in Switzerland, which has the world's second most expensive health care system, and 83% higher than in Canada."
Indeed, 14.9 percent of our gross domestic product is spent on health care and the cost is growing rapidly. Japan spends 7.6% of its GDP, Australia 8.5%, Holland 8.6% and Canada 9.5%. By 2013, per capita health care spending in the U.S. is projected to increase to 18.4 percent of GDP.
I think we should have a single payer system-where the government finances health care, but keeps the delivery of health care to private non-profits, and allows free choice of doctors and hospitals for patients.
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php
The U.S. is the only industrialized country that does not provide universal health care. More than 44.3 million Americans have no health insurance, and tens of millions more are underinsured. Private corporations pay less than 20% of health costs. Thus, even if you have insurance, you may not be able to afford the care you need, and some treatments may not be covered at all.
Dr. Steffie Woolhandler of Harvard Medical School points out that "we are already spending enough to provide every American with superb medical care - $5,775 per person this year [2003]. That's 42% higher than in Switzerland, which has the world's second most expensive health care system, and 83% higher than in Canada."
Indeed, 14.9 percent of our gross domestic product is spent on health care and the cost is growing rapidly. Japan spends 7.6% of its GDP, Australia 8.5%, Holland 8.6% and Canada 9.5%. By 2013, per capita health care spending in the U.S. is projected to increase to 18.4 percent of GDP.
I think we should have a single payer system-where the government finances health care, but keeps the delivery of health care to private non-profits, and allows free choice of doctors and hospitals for patients.
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php
Last edited by raerae6; 07-22-2007 at 11:38 AM.
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
Senator Conyers (who I am NOT a fan of) has a very informative site on what this bill does plan to do:
http://www.house.gov/conyers/news_hr676_2.htm
This bill has been knocked around congress for several years now. I don't see it passing anytime soon.
What I am a fan of is a decent single-payer system. And no, I am not a fan of Michael Moore or *Sicko!* either. Of course we all will have to pay into the system, everyone with insurance nows pays for insurance for others, either through payroll deductions or through loss of possible wage raises etc. Remember the health insurance you are paying into is a risk pool, the ones who don't get sick pay for the ones who do. We also pay now for the uninsured. In fact, we pay more than we should because they don't get regular care, and don't end up getting treatment (usually at the hospital) until they are sicker, and need more treatment than if they had first gone to the doctor's office. We also pay because they are more likely to avoid care, and infect those around them. Recently we have had a nasty strain of TB in my county due to people who couldn't afford to keep taking their medication causing the TB to mutate to become antibiotic resistant.
There are many countries that do it right. Norway has a good system for example.
Here is the part of Conyers site that has the info Splenda was referring to:
http://www.house.gov/conyers/news_hr676_2.htm
This bill has been knocked around congress for several years now. I don't see it passing anytime soon.
What I am a fan of is a decent single-payer system. And no, I am not a fan of Michael Moore or *Sicko!* either. Of course we all will have to pay into the system, everyone with insurance nows pays for insurance for others, either through payroll deductions or through loss of possible wage raises etc. Remember the health insurance you are paying into is a risk pool, the ones who don't get sick pay for the ones who do. We also pay now for the uninsured. In fact, we pay more than we should because they don't get regular care, and don't end up getting treatment (usually at the hospital) until they are sicker, and need more treatment than if they had first gone to the doctor's office. We also pay because they are more likely to avoid care, and infect those around them. Recently we have had a nasty strain of TB in my county due to people who couldn't afford to keep taking their medication causing the TB to mutate to become antibiotic resistant.
There are many countries that do it right. Norway has a good system for example.
Here is the part of Conyers site that has the info Splenda was referring to:
This program will cover all medically necessary services, including primary care, in patient care, outpatient care, emergency care, prescription drugs, durable medical equipment, long term care, mental health services, dentistry, eye care, chiropractic, and substance abuse treatment. Patients have their choice of physicians, providers, hospitals, clinics and practices. No co-pays or deductibles are permitted under this act.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
We have free health care in Canada and I beg to differ with the person who said it's no good.
I have access to the very best specialists, some of the best in the world, to treat anything a specialist might be needed for.
I can have a broken bone set or open heart surgery and it costs me nothing. If I am in a major accident, I can be air lifted to an appropriate hospital and have as many doctors as might be needed tend to me....for free.
When I am sick, I don't hesitate to go see my doctor because it costs nothing and ensures that I take good care of my health.
Most of our rehabs cost nothing, aftercare also.
It's the best medical system I have ever seen and as far as I am concerned it is second to none. Sure some people have bad experiences, just like in health care you pay for. 50% of doctors graduated at the bottom half of their class. I choose carefully and can get as many second opinions as I need.
Free? Not really, we pay through our taxes and employers pay some too for each employee. But it has always been that way and I just don't feel the pinch.
Given a choice between free health care or lower taxes, I'd take the health care in a heart beat....a healthy heart beat.
Just my thoughts and my experience.
Hugs
I have access to the very best specialists, some of the best in the world, to treat anything a specialist might be needed for.
I can have a broken bone set or open heart surgery and it costs me nothing. If I am in a major accident, I can be air lifted to an appropriate hospital and have as many doctors as might be needed tend to me....for free.
When I am sick, I don't hesitate to go see my doctor because it costs nothing and ensures that I take good care of my health.
Most of our rehabs cost nothing, aftercare also.
It's the best medical system I have ever seen and as far as I am concerned it is second to none. Sure some people have bad experiences, just like in health care you pay for. 50% of doctors graduated at the bottom half of their class. I choose carefully and can get as many second opinions as I need.
Free? Not really, we pay through our taxes and employers pay some too for each employee. But it has always been that way and I just don't feel the pinch.
Given a choice between free health care or lower taxes, I'd take the health care in a heart beat....a healthy heart beat.
Just my thoughts and my experience.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: here and now
Posts: 1,291
Ann, I have some Canadian friends and they are glad that they have their system instead of ours, too.
Studies bear out that the Canadian health care system in terms of quality is at least equal to and often surpasses the U.S. system.
http://www.openmedicine.ca/article/view/8/1
Studies bear out that the Canadian health care system in terms of quality is at least equal to and often surpasses the U.S. system.
http://www.openmedicine.ca/article/view/8/1
Last edited by raerae6; 07-22-2007 at 01:17 PM.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,068
I think we should have a single payer system-where the government finances health care, but keeps the delivery of health care to private non-profits, and allows free choice of doctors and hospitals for patients
I do not expect health care professionals to feel "a calling" like one might expect from a nun or a man/woman of the cloth. They are there to make money, and they should.
I do think that insurance companies with "short term" thinking are screwed up, and malpractice lawsuits are out of control (lawsuits in general are too, but that's another subject) and there needs to be a lot more consumer choice involved.
So far nothing I have seen will address these issues. When that happens, I am all for it, but color me very skeptical for now.
By the way I am a 45 yo male, without health insurance.
Also, if there is an administrator reading this, unless this thread somehow makes a lot stronger connection to "friends and families of alcoholics and addicts" than it has so far, I believe it should be moved to cafe central.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: here and now
Posts: 1,291
[QUOTE=dgillz;1420691]IMHO there MUST be profits. How good of a car do you think we would drive or how good of a computer do you think we would own if there were no profits in it? Profit is not a dirty word, and a Cardiologist should make more than a GP, who should make more than a ditch digger, etc.
I do not expect health care professionals to feel "a calling" like one might expect from a nun or a man/woman of the cloth. They are there to make money, and they should.
QUOTE]
It works other places, why not here?
But in most European countries, Canada, Australia and Japan they have socialized financing, or socialized health insurance, not socialized medicine.
The government pays for care that is delivered in the private (mostly not-for-profit) sector. This is similar to how Medicare works in this country. Doctors are in private practice and are paid on a fee-for-service basis from government funds. The government does not own or manage their medical practices or hospitals.
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php
Also, Five percent of physicians account for about fifty percent of filed medical malpractice lawsuits. The total amount paid out in verdicts and settlements in all malpractice lawsuits is between $5 and $6 billion -- less than the amount spent just on dog food in this country. Only ten percent of medical malpractice victims even file a claim.
Yet according to the Harvard School of Public Health Physicians, 80,000 Americans die every year from medical negligence or worse just in hospitals alone. Hundreds of thousands are significantly injured. By comparison with the insurance premiums paid, one of the Harvard physicians estimated the cost of medical malpractice casualties to be over $60 billion a year.
I do not expect health care professionals to feel "a calling" like one might expect from a nun or a man/woman of the cloth. They are there to make money, and they should.
QUOTE]
It works other places, why not here?
But in most European countries, Canada, Australia and Japan they have socialized financing, or socialized health insurance, not socialized medicine.
The government pays for care that is delivered in the private (mostly not-for-profit) sector. This is similar to how Medicare works in this country. Doctors are in private practice and are paid on a fee-for-service basis from government funds. The government does not own or manage their medical practices or hospitals.
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php
Also, Five percent of physicians account for about fifty percent of filed medical malpractice lawsuits. The total amount paid out in verdicts and settlements in all malpractice lawsuits is between $5 and $6 billion -- less than the amount spent just on dog food in this country. Only ten percent of medical malpractice victims even file a claim.
Yet according to the Harvard School of Public Health Physicians, 80,000 Americans die every year from medical negligence or worse just in hospitals alone. Hundreds of thousands are significantly injured. By comparison with the insurance premiums paid, one of the Harvard physicians estimated the cost of medical malpractice casualties to be over $60 billion a year.
remember to breathe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: philadelphia pa
Posts: 1,280
I am all for universal healthcare. too many times have I seen people not go to the doctors because they can't afford it. these are working adults that just don't have the option of paying for insurance through their work because they need all the cash they can get to keep the family afloat. My friend is from England where they have free healthcare and she raves about it.
Rest peacefully Sonny Boy
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Florida, Tennessee
Posts: 840
There are two things that I wholeheartedly am in favor of. Law enforcement and medical. Just as we are provided the benefit of law enforcement for our protection, every person out there should be afforded medical. Both services save lives. As it stands now, today, I have no insurance. I have some pretty severe medical problems, because of that, I can never have insurance no matter what. Pre-existing conditions prevent it. Yet, because I am not on public assistance, I can't get proper medical. My kids have been sent home with broken bones because they had no insurance and didn't have enough cash to prepay.
Our government sticks their nose in many things that are not life or death problems, I don't object to those things as long as the two basic's are covered first, health and safety. Instead both are lacking while roads and buildings and "things" are more important than lives.
Our priorities aren't in order in my opinion. I can live a good life without a lot, I can live no life without healthcare.
I would even venture to say, that if cost had not been a factor, Mike would have gone to rehab. maybe it would have helped save a life and a family, maybe it would have saved some innocent bystander that got hurt in one of his drunken accidents, maybe it would have all still ended up the same. We will never know until or unless something changes with the medical crisis that we have here in the US. I applaud any public representative for even attempting to change it. Nothing changes until something changes.
JMHO
B
Our government sticks their nose in many things that are not life or death problems, I don't object to those things as long as the two basic's are covered first, health and safety. Instead both are lacking while roads and buildings and "things" are more important than lives.
Our priorities aren't in order in my opinion. I can live a good life without a lot, I can live no life without healthcare.
I would even venture to say, that if cost had not been a factor, Mike would have gone to rehab. maybe it would have helped save a life and a family, maybe it would have saved some innocent bystander that got hurt in one of his drunken accidents, maybe it would have all still ended up the same. We will never know until or unless something changes with the medical crisis that we have here in the US. I applaud any public representative for even attempting to change it. Nothing changes until something changes.
JMHO
B
the girl can't help it
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
I for one have never felt like insurance was affordable. I have always worked and paid my taxes. I do everything I know how to keep myself healthy.
I know many people who have lost their homes due to medical bills. To me this is so
terrible that a person who has worked all their lives risk loosing what little they have because they or a beloved family member gets sick. It is just wrong.
Under this bill doctors and other clinicians will be paid the staff will still be paid but, if you don't have insurance you will still get proper treatment. Not for profit does not mean people won't get paid if means if your insurance does not cover you or you do not have health coverage you will still get treatment. This bill will eliminate the need for insurance. Yes taxes my go up but, your payroll deductions will go down and probably everyone will save money.
I am not too worried about the ones who do not work or are on welfare they have health care already. I am worried about the 40 million or so workers who pay taxes and still do not have health care. I am concerned about the people who will die because they cannot afford health care or loose their homes and become homeless due to medical expenses. Believe me it happens all the time.
By the way many non profit organizations make big money.
If you are working and do not have health care I urge you to read this bill and contact your representative to support this if you see the merit.
I know many people who have lost their homes due to medical bills. To me this is so
terrible that a person who has worked all their lives risk loosing what little they have because they or a beloved family member gets sick. It is just wrong.
Under this bill doctors and other clinicians will be paid the staff will still be paid but, if you don't have insurance you will still get proper treatment. Not for profit does not mean people won't get paid if means if your insurance does not cover you or you do not have health coverage you will still get treatment. This bill will eliminate the need for insurance. Yes taxes my go up but, your payroll deductions will go down and probably everyone will save money.
I am not too worried about the ones who do not work or are on welfare they have health care already. I am worried about the 40 million or so workers who pay taxes and still do not have health care. I am concerned about the people who will die because they cannot afford health care or loose their homes and become homeless due to medical expenses. Believe me it happens all the time.
By the way many non profit organizations make big money.
If you are working and do not have health care I urge you to read this bill and contact your representative to support this if you see the merit.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: At the zoo
Posts: 244
Health care for all, yes count me in on that.
As a person who has worked since I was 16, I have never had health insurance paid for by anyone but me!
I've been very lucky so far, When I had my ad, I had a good insurance plan I paid for out of pocket, I had that until the premiums were so high I couldn't afford it any more. So I dropped it and enrolled my daughter in the state insurance plan offered for lower income folks. I got another plan that pays for SOME of doctor bills and all testing and some of the cost of prerscriptions. Better than nothing but not good, a major illness would wipe me out, especially now that I'm self-employed.
My ad is covered by insurance provided by the college she attends, they pay for a lot but not all, and hopefully they will cover the rehab and detox, otherwise she's in trouble with the bills cause I really can't cover them for her. Right now I'm still paying for the sinus and ear infection I had during the winter.
Those with good insurance will usually say that universal health care can't be done, but it is available in almost every other major country and done pretty good, too. Would it take the profits away from the drug companies and insurance companies, sure it would and they lobby constantly to try and convince people that the care one would receive under government sponsored health care would be lousy. Hey they are not going to make their millions, sure they don't want it.
For those with insurance guess what the insurance companies decide what medical care and prescriptions you will receive, not your doctor. So let's put medical care back where it belongs in the doctors hands.
And if anyone is in either Maine or Mass. (I forgot which one) they have passed a law making health care available to everyone.
As a person who has worked since I was 16, I have never had health insurance paid for by anyone but me!
I've been very lucky so far, When I had my ad, I had a good insurance plan I paid for out of pocket, I had that until the premiums were so high I couldn't afford it any more. So I dropped it and enrolled my daughter in the state insurance plan offered for lower income folks. I got another plan that pays for SOME of doctor bills and all testing and some of the cost of prerscriptions. Better than nothing but not good, a major illness would wipe me out, especially now that I'm self-employed.
My ad is covered by insurance provided by the college she attends, they pay for a lot but not all, and hopefully they will cover the rehab and detox, otherwise she's in trouble with the bills cause I really can't cover them for her. Right now I'm still paying for the sinus and ear infection I had during the winter.
Those with good insurance will usually say that universal health care can't be done, but it is available in almost every other major country and done pretty good, too. Would it take the profits away from the drug companies and insurance companies, sure it would and they lobby constantly to try and convince people that the care one would receive under government sponsored health care would be lousy. Hey they are not going to make their millions, sure they don't want it.
For those with insurance guess what the insurance companies decide what medical care and prescriptions you will receive, not your doctor. So let's put medical care back where it belongs in the doctors hands.
And if anyone is in either Maine or Mass. (I forgot which one) they have passed a law making health care available to everyone.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: somewhere, out there...
Posts: 512
i speak from personal experience here, as an american who has lived in europe (for a couple of years) and experienced, from the birth of her neice to minor surgeries and strept throat kind of stuff - the us medical/insurance is crap - my husband and i pay over $700 am onth for medical insurance (no one has been in a major accident/surgical need/or hospitalization) and that is with bcbs ( a reputable insurer) - in europe (belgium to be exact) socialized medicine paid higher than average wages to doctors (our neighbor made $175,000 as a pediatrician) - people got medicine at a pharmacy they walked into off of the street and told them of their symptoms and they gave them their medicine (this was 20 some years ago - way before web md was around to self diagnose) - my sister was in the hospital after the birth of my neice for almost 2 weeks (not because there were complications but because they felt the need to take care of the patient - not rush them out the door) - health care should be available to every single human being whether you make over 100,000 a year or not (and trust me we make over that and with our new insurance policy <a health savings account that pays for NOTHING but costs $700 a month> we think twice about going to the doctor) you should be able to get...
there is no reason that people can't have an open discussion about health care without jumping to conclusions about how crappy something you know nothing about really is - you don't know unless you've actually tried it - universal health care should be a right in the richest country in the world - it's time has come - in my humble opinion...
s
there is no reason that people can't have an open discussion about health care without jumping to conclusions about how crappy something you know nothing about really is - you don't know unless you've actually tried it - universal health care should be a right in the richest country in the world - it's time has come - in my humble opinion...
s
Silly Rabbit
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 956
i am too emotional about this issue to really defend my opinion, but let me just say this-universal healthcare is one of the best ideas, one of the only things on the table to help america heal. and while i pray that God's will be done, i also pray universal healthcare gets a fair shot.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: somewhere, out there...
Posts: 512
i just wanted to add that we certainly pay enough in taxes - 40% here in indiana - that some of that could go towards healthcare - the 40% we pay goes towards federal, state, medicare (fica) and social security - we citizens can (or legally should be able to) say where our tax $'s go - the 500 billion going to iraq could certainly fund the universal health care plan for every american for a couple of years you know- nothing is free but taxes that we pay should go for what we think is important - health care is more important to me than oil in iraq
the $700/month we pay for health care is an employer based plan through anthem/bcbs/wellpoint - one of the largest insurance co. in the country - i believe the president of wellpoint made over 30 million dollars when the three insurance co's merged - that is an outrage...
s
the $700/month we pay for health care is an employer based plan through anthem/bcbs/wellpoint - one of the largest insurance co. in the country - i believe the president of wellpoint made over 30 million dollars when the three insurance co's merged - that is an outrage...
s
Silly Rabbit
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 956
my mom has paid her own way her whole life. she paid mine and my sister's too, by herself. she was in sales, and rose to management with hard work. when her company fired her (illegally), she paid a ridiculoud amount of money to COBRA her insurance. now she needs a(nother) hip replacement, but she has no insurance. she had too many assets to qualify for government assistance. thank god she's lost almost everything at this point so now she might be able to get disability, medicare, and a new hip.
if there were ANY WAY i could put her on my insurance, i'd do it in a heartbeat. see, it was damn near impossible for my mom to get a job after she was fired. she's in her early 50's. she couldn't even get a job at starbuck's. so, she went to work for a small company selling security systems. they didn't offer healthcare. my mom's hip got worse. now she works for another small company, this time in her original field of cell phone sales. they don't offer insurance either. she can barely walk. she is the working poor. she put my sister and i both through school. she has been through more in her life than 3 lifetime movies combined, and she's still going.
i'd pay for her in a half-second. i'd pay for your kids. i'd let my tax dollars go, willingly, to a good cause. to something that's as basic as human rights.
did you know that the homeless population boomed in the eighties? i'd be willing to bet that at least part of that was caused by Reagan and Bush Sr. shutting down mental hospitals, cutting funding wherever possible. so, figure that crack and meth showed up about the same time. correlation doesn't prove causation, but it's interesting to look at.
if i could, i would. without a doubt. why not? i'd rather have my tax dollars spent healing people, even if they "sit around", than blowing perfect strangers up overseas.
i'm not trying to make you angry, but i have a right to my opinion. JMHO.
if there were ANY WAY i could put her on my insurance, i'd do it in a heartbeat. see, it was damn near impossible for my mom to get a job after she was fired. she's in her early 50's. she couldn't even get a job at starbuck's. so, she went to work for a small company selling security systems. they didn't offer healthcare. my mom's hip got worse. now she works for another small company, this time in her original field of cell phone sales. they don't offer insurance either. she can barely walk. she is the working poor. she put my sister and i both through school. she has been through more in her life than 3 lifetime movies combined, and she's still going.
i'd pay for her in a half-second. i'd pay for your kids. i'd let my tax dollars go, willingly, to a good cause. to something that's as basic as human rights.
did you know that the homeless population boomed in the eighties? i'd be willing to bet that at least part of that was caused by Reagan and Bush Sr. shutting down mental hospitals, cutting funding wherever possible. so, figure that crack and meth showed up about the same time. correlation doesn't prove causation, but it's interesting to look at.
if i could, i would. without a doubt. why not? i'd rather have my tax dollars spent healing people, even if they "sit around", than blowing perfect strangers up overseas.
i'm not trying to make you angry, but i have a right to my opinion. JMHO.
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