From "The Sociopath Next Door"
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Originally Posted by FormerDoormat
For Mikey:
Author's comments on childhood abuse:...
Author's comments on childhood abuse:...
Mike
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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More details on Item 9: Question your Tendency to Pity Too Early
Respect should be reserved for the kind and the morally courageous. Pity is another socially valuable response, and it should be reserved for innocent people who are in genuine pain or who have fallen victim of misfortune. If, instead, you find yourself often pitying someone who consistently hurts you or other people, and who actively campaigns for your sympathy, the chances are close to 100% that you are dealing with a sociopath.
Related to this, I recommend that you severely challenge your need to be polite in absolutely all situations. For normal adults in our culture, being what we think of as "civilized" is like a reflex, and often we find ourselves being automatically decorous even when someone has enraged us, repeatedly lied to us, or figuratively stabbed us in the back. Sociopaths take huge advantage of this automatic courtesy in explotive situations.
Do not be afraid to be unsmiling and calmly to the point.
Respect should be reserved for the kind and the morally courageous. Pity is another socially valuable response, and it should be reserved for innocent people who are in genuine pain or who have fallen victim of misfortune. If, instead, you find yourself often pitying someone who consistently hurts you or other people, and who actively campaigns for your sympathy, the chances are close to 100% that you are dealing with a sociopath.
Related to this, I recommend that you severely challenge your need to be polite in absolutely all situations. For normal adults in our culture, being what we think of as "civilized" is like a reflex, and often we find ourselves being automatically decorous even when someone has enraged us, repeatedly lied to us, or figuratively stabbed us in the back. Sociopaths take huge advantage of this automatic courtesy in explotive situations.
Do not be afraid to be unsmiling and calmly to the point.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
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More details on Item 7: Do Not Join the Game
Intrigue is a sociopath's tool. Resist the temptation to compete with a seductive sociopath, to outsmart him, psychoanalyze him, or even banter with him. In addition to reducing yourself to his level, you would be distracting yourself from what is really important, which is to protect yourself.
Intrigue is a sociopath's tool. Resist the temptation to compete with a seductive sociopath, to outsmart him, psychoanalyze him, or even banter with him. In addition to reducing yourself to his level, you would be distracting yourself from what is really important, which is to protect yourself.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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More details on Item 11: Never Agree, Out of Pity or for Any Other Reason, to Help a Sociopath Conceal His or Her True Character
"Please don't tell," often spoken tearfully and with great gnashing of teeth, is the trademark plea of thieves, child abusers, and sociopaths. Do not listen to this siren song. Other people deserve to be warned more than sociopaths deserve to have you keep their secrets.
If someone without conscience insists that you "owe" him or her, recall what you are about to read here: "You owe me" has been the standard line of sociopaths for thousands of years, quite literally, and it is still so. It is what Rasputin told the empress of Russia.
We tend to experience "You owe me" as a compelling claim, but it is simply not true. Do not listen. Also, ignore the one that goes, "you are just like me." You are not.
"Please don't tell," often spoken tearfully and with great gnashing of teeth, is the trademark plea of thieves, child abusers, and sociopaths. Do not listen to this siren song. Other people deserve to be warned more than sociopaths deserve to have you keep their secrets.
If someone without conscience insists that you "owe" him or her, recall what you are about to read here: "You owe me" has been the standard line of sociopaths for thousands of years, quite literally, and it is still so. It is what Rasputin told the empress of Russia.
We tend to experience "You owe me" as a compelling claim, but it is simply not true. Do not listen. Also, ignore the one that goes, "you are just like me." You are not.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
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More details on Item No. 8: The Best Way to Protect Yourself From a Sociopath is to Avoid Him, to Refuse Any Kind of Contact or Communication
Psychologists do not usually like to recommend avoidance, but in this case, I make a very deliberate exception. The only truly effective method for dealing with a sociopath you have identified is to disallow him or her from your life altogether. Sociopaths live completely outside the social contract, and therefore to include them in your relationships or other social arrangements is perilous. Begin this exclusion of them in the context of your own relationships and social life. You will not hurt anyone's feelings. Strange as it seems, and though they may try to pretend otherwise, sociopaths do not have any such feelings to hurt.
You may never be able to make your family and friends understand why you are avoiding a particular individual. Sociopathy is surprisingly difficult to see, and even harder to explain. Avoid him anyway.
If total avoidance is impossible, make plans to come as close as you can to the goal of total avoidance.
Psychologists do not usually like to recommend avoidance, but in this case, I make a very deliberate exception. The only truly effective method for dealing with a sociopath you have identified is to disallow him or her from your life altogether. Sociopaths live completely outside the social contract, and therefore to include them in your relationships or other social arrangements is perilous. Begin this exclusion of them in the context of your own relationships and social life. You will not hurt anyone's feelings. Strange as it seems, and though they may try to pretend otherwise, sociopaths do not have any such feelings to hurt.
You may never be able to make your family and friends understand why you are avoiding a particular individual. Sociopathy is surprisingly difficult to see, and even harder to explain. Avoid him anyway.
If total avoidance is impossible, make plans to come as close as you can to the goal of total avoidance.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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More info on No. 5: Suspect Flattery
Compliments are lovely, especially when they are sincere. In contrast, flattery is extreme and appeals to our egos in unrealistic ways. It is the material of counterfeit charm, and nearly always involves an intent to manipulate. Manipulation through flattery is sometimes innocuous and sometimes sinister. Peek over your massaged ego and remember to suspect flattery.
Compliments are lovely, especially when they are sincere. In contrast, flattery is extreme and appeals to our egos in unrealistic ways. It is the material of counterfeit charm, and nearly always involves an intent to manipulate. Manipulation through flattery is sometimes innocuous and sometimes sinister. Peek over your massaged ego and remember to suspect flattery.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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This reminds me an awful lot of a book "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck. I highly recommend it. While I do not agree with certain parts of the book (those of a religious nature) I found it highly enlightening, helpful and it helped save my arse.
Which required that I avoid a certain individual and gave me understanding why I needed to do so and that what I felt and thought I saw was not crazy.
Which required that I avoid a certain individual and gave me understanding why I needed to do so and that what I felt and thought I saw was not crazy.
Acting not reacting
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Again, thanks FD. And live, thanks for the mention of the book, People of the Lie. I have been thinking about getting the Sociopath Next Door since FD's original post that I could sooo much relate to. The part about pity, is just perfect timing I have to say. Im still stuck on my first step and part of my step work is understanding the difference bt love and pity.
Ive just not been able to get my head around pity..until now.
This is a huge revelation to me.
Very valuable info..bookstore at lunch for me..no more waiting.
Ive just not been able to get my head around pity..until now.
This is a huge revelation to me.
Pity is another socially valuable response, and it should be reserved for innocent people who are in genuine pain or who have fallen victim of misfortune
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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Wow!
Second (third, fourth, and fifth) chances are for people who possess conscience. If you are dealing with a person who has no conscience, know how to swallow hard and cut your losses. At some point, most of us need to learn the important, if disappointing, life lesson that, no matter how good our intentions, we cannot control the behavior--let alone the character structures--of other people. Learn this fact of human life, and avoid the irony of getting caught up in the same ambition he has--to control
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Originally Posted by equus
They forgot the rule about remembering you're better than they are - mind you that sort of underlies the other rules....
I prefere ol' Dalai's simple rule - treating people with compassion and where some people have very big problems if it gets to a point where you find compassion hard and become angry and hurtful then it's time fto get some distance. That rule is underlined by knowing they are equal to you, the same in that they also want happiness and want to avoid pain. He also reckons those people we find hard are a great gift to us in teaching us patience and REAL compassion rather than that given to gain a friendship we personally want.
I prefere ol' Dalai's simple rule - treating people with compassion and where some people have very big problems if it gets to a point where you find compassion hard and become angry and hurtful then it's time fto get some distance. That rule is underlined by knowing they are equal to you, the same in that they also want happiness and want to avoid pain. He also reckons those people we find hard are a great gift to us in teaching us patience and REAL compassion rather than that given to gain a friendship we personally want.
What a great response to this book Eq.
I am honoured to read it.
Thing is with reading this type of book is that everyone might start appearing to be disgusting sicko pschos out to manipulate. The world gets darker when you realise there are pschos and non pschos. Reminds me of 'how to spot a homosexual' books in the fifties.
How Important Is It?
Join Date: May 2005
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I find the discussion of sociopaths very interesting. I have known three, and it's not a label would stick on someone who was simply troubled or addicted or difficult.
The socipaths I have know were all extremely charming and even charismatic, and utterly ruthless toward people they didn't like. The point is that if you are of use to the sociopath, then you are probably safe from their bad behaviour.
However, if you **** off a sociopath, they will attempt to destroy you. It has happened to me and it's not pleasant.
The socipaths I have know were all extremely charming and even charismatic, and utterly ruthless toward people they didn't like. The point is that if you are of use to the sociopath, then you are probably safe from their bad behaviour.
However, if you **** off a sociopath, they will attempt to destroy you. It has happened to me and it's not pleasant.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
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It has happened to me and it's not pleasant.
I found this book helpful on many levels. It not only showed me how to recognize a person with low or no conscience so I can avoid them in the future, but it addressed some similar behavior patterns that tend to surface in folks suffering from addiction, such as harming, manipulating, or deceiving their loved ones without any sign of remorse.
According to the American Psychiatric Association, sociopaths comprise 4% of our population. So the chances that folks will encounter a person suffering from this affliction during the course of their lifetime are greater than I had imagined.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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well I have known a few as well--I have to agree with someone here that some of it does describe a person addicted.
Interesting to read. Me I would just like to focus on ME now--maybe I am one lol--I am crazy enough without trying to figure out who else is crazy!!!
Interesting to read. Me I would just like to focus on ME now--maybe I am one lol--I am crazy enough without trying to figure out who else is crazy!!!
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Join Date: May 2004
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Did you bump this to prove to me that my memory is not as good as I think it is, FD?! I can't believe I picked that out almost a year ago as well - must have struck a chord, huh?
I don't know why I have resisted buying this book - perhaps because I don't need to know any more than what I have already learned by direct experience. R is undiagnosed* yet displays many of the traits - I read on another form like SR for partners of people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder or Antisocial Personality Disorder (i.e. psycopaths) and read my experience over and over again. I know now that the drinking was a red herring - a symptom rather than a cause. But the reasons for me getting involved with him are the same whether it is PD or a drinking issue and that is what my recovery is all about.
Thanks for bymping this, FD - it's full of great information.
*how does a professional diagnose a PD when Axis II disorder people are highly unlikely to ever get into a position where they are in any danger of being diagnosed because of the very nature of the PD? What a circular situation.
I don't know why I have resisted buying this book - perhaps because I don't need to know any more than what I have already learned by direct experience. R is undiagnosed* yet displays many of the traits - I read on another form like SR for partners of people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder or Antisocial Personality Disorder (i.e. psycopaths) and read my experience over and over again. I know now that the drinking was a red herring - a symptom rather than a cause. But the reasons for me getting involved with him are the same whether it is PD or a drinking issue and that is what my recovery is all about.
Thanks for bymping this, FD - it's full of great information.
*how does a professional diagnose a PD when Axis II disorder people are highly unlikely to ever get into a position where they are in any danger of being diagnosed because of the very nature of the PD? What a circular situation.
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This describes my ex to a T. I don't think there was ever any remorse ove rthe fact that he is a total liar but there was definitely remorse when I caught on and he lost me. The only remorse was that he lost his game, not what he did.
Earthworm
Earthworm
Originally Posted by equus 
Personally I think if sales of this book were only successful where people actually knew someone with this disorder it would be unlikely to make profit. As with most thing in psychiatry there will be those who make their profit almost entirely from the myths they propergate.
I have yet to meet a person that I know for sure has less of a concience than me, I've met many people that act differently from me, lots who appear not to mind the hurt they cause but none that I know have less conscience.
Seeing people as my equal is more functional to me, I can use it everyday and need no diagnosis or ability to decide on anothers conscience or lack of it.
I have yet to meet a person that I know for sure has less of a concience than me, I've met many people that act differently from me, lots who appear not to mind the hurt they cause but none that I know have less conscience.
Seeing people as my equal is more functional to me, I can use it everyday and need no diagnosis or ability to decide on anothers conscience or lack of it.
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