why o why :(
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why o why :(
wont alcoholics help themselfs, mine is feeling sorry for himself right now and misses me so much, I am at my parents looking after ME! I have tried to encourage him and all he want to do is sit in, still making up lies, and says hes not feeling sorry for himself (yeah right) if he misses me so much then wouldnt a normal person think im gonna show her im gonna get help as he said he would many a time, and try and show me hes geniune about it as sitting there feeling sorry for himself doesnt really inspire me to want to be with this person, its pathetic really. He had the option to go with his boss to church this evening as she knows about his problem but no hes depressed and would rather sit there and feel sorry for himself and drink than do something about his problem and show me hes serious (not that I want him to do it for me) this is what I cannot get my head round it make me so f***ing mad, is there something worng with his brain??? does it not function like normal people arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 
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if he misses me so much then wouldnt a normal person think im gonna show her im gonna get help as he said he would many a time, and try and show me hes geniune about it as sitting there feeling sorry for himself doesnt really inspire me to want to be with this person, its pathetic really.
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Originally Posted by confused_jen
I cannot get my head round it make me so f***ing mad, is there something worng with his brain??? does it not function like normal people arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
No....it doesn't function like "normal people" (the appr. 90 % of the population that is not alcoholic). It functions EXACTLY like an alcoholic,though.
I know this feeling of extreme frustration and grief.....even rage that there is nothing (except let go,let God and not contribute to it) that you can do. My AH of 27y has walked away from me and our two children instead of get help. UGH! Sometimes I still would like to "slap him" and tell him to "wake-up" but it would be a waste of my energy. (I don't have enough energy to spare right now! )
I wanted to know I understand the feelings and it seems so unnecessary,etc,etc.....sending you a hug and I will keep you in my prayers. Hopefully you can find something enjoyable to do to get a break from this, even for a few minutes.
Just for fun.....
(There, that felt better and no one was hurt!ha)
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Join Date: Aug 2005
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What on earth makes you think you are dealing with a "normal" person????
I'm going to describe alcoholism as it applies to ME, being a recovering alcoholic person. Alcoholics are good at the pity pot/victim thing. Poor me, poor me, pour me another drink. They will not do anything about it until the pain of remaining the same outweighs the pain of change. There is a whole mindset that seems to go with alcoholism and I say that not on any research but listening to those that share the rooms of AA with me.
He will seek help when/if he's ready. Until then he will sit in his own sh*t and whine about how bad it feels while doing nothing to change it. That's his stuff. You are doing absolutely the right thing in looking after yourself. Do you HAVE to take his calls? Can you just hang up when he starts this crap? Just asking.
I feel for you, I've lived both sides of this and it ain't pretty from EITHER side!
Hugs,
Kellye
I'm going to describe alcoholism as it applies to ME, being a recovering alcoholic person. Alcoholics are good at the pity pot/victim thing. Poor me, poor me, pour me another drink. They will not do anything about it until the pain of remaining the same outweighs the pain of change. There is a whole mindset that seems to go with alcoholism and I say that not on any research but listening to those that share the rooms of AA with me.
He will seek help when/if he's ready. Until then he will sit in his own sh*t and whine about how bad it feels while doing nothing to change it. That's his stuff. You are doing absolutely the right thing in looking after yourself. Do you HAVE to take his calls? Can you just hang up when he starts this crap? Just asking.
I feel for you, I've lived both sides of this and it ain't pretty from EITHER side!
Hugs,
Kellye
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OT-Kelley.....thanks so much for your posts! After falling for the boo-hoo and blame from my AH, I can feel myself slipping into it from time to time, and even when I don't..then I feel guilty that I haven't! haha (And I'm not as sick or sicker than him?!!ha...at least I am recognizing these patterns)
Hearing from your point of view is really helpful to me....just wanted to thank you for sharing!
Hearing from your point of view is really helpful to me....just wanted to thank you for sharing!
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You're welcome. You know at times it feels strange to share on this level as I'm used to sharing in AA and about my disease of alcoholism. I think this other side of the coin is why I have to get to Al-Anon this week. I need to hear these things too and see them being put into practice!
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It makes me so sad and mad! 
I have tears in my eyes as he has so much support but he wants to play the victim as you say but says he isnt, I want to scream and shout at him but I know that wont help!!! on a good day he says he will do all these things then when hes in the spiral, trigger moad nothing else matters even me!! even though he says I do, it doesnt make sense as his actions dont prove that to me, all it is is words...I feel sorry for him but I cant safe him I have told him, me coming back wont achivie anything it just glosses over it for a while, should I stay well away or ask him if he wants company (I know he will say no anyway). I am really 100% that we are over even if he does get help, I cant take this, i wont be dragged down by some man, no matter how much I love him, im not going to tell him this now but after his clinic and he gets more suport im outta this....
I have tears in my eyes as he has so much support but he wants to play the victim as you say but says he isnt, I want to scream and shout at him but I know that wont help!!! on a good day he says he will do all these things then when hes in the spiral, trigger moad nothing else matters even me!! even though he says I do, it doesnt make sense as his actions dont prove that to me, all it is is words...I feel sorry for him but I cant safe him I have told him, me coming back wont achivie anything it just glosses over it for a while, should I stay well away or ask him if he wants company (I know he will say no anyway). I am really 100% that we are over even if he does get help, I cant take this, i wont be dragged down by some man, no matter how much I love him, im not going to tell him this now but after his clinic and he gets more suport im outta this....
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Originally Posted by Pick-a-name
No....it doesn't function like "normal people" (the appr. 90 % of the population that is not alcoholic). It functions EXACTLY like an alcoholic,though.
I know this feeling of extreme frustration and grief.....even rage that there is nothing (except let go,let God and not contribute to it) that you can do. My AH of 27y has walked away from me and our two children instead of get help. UGH! Sometimes I still would like to "slap him" and tell him to "wake-up" but it would be a waste of my energy. (I don't have enough energy to spare right now! )
I wanted to know I understand the feelings and it seems so unnecessary,etc,etc.....sending you a hug and I will keep you in my prayers. Hopefully you can find something enjoyable to do to get a break from this, even for a few minutes.
Just for fun..... (There, that felt better and no one was hurt!ha)
I know this feeling of extreme frustration and grief.....even rage that there is nothing (except let go,let God and not contribute to it) that you can do. My AH of 27y has walked away from me and our two children instead of get help. UGH! Sometimes I still would like to "slap him" and tell him to "wake-up" but it would be a waste of my energy. (I don't have enough energy to spare right now! )
I wanted to know I understand the feelings and it seems so unnecessary,etc,etc.....sending you a hug and I will keep you in my prayers. Hopefully you can find something enjoyable to do to get a break from this, even for a few minutes.
Just for fun.....
(There, that felt better and no one was hurt!ha)Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by Kellye D
I feel for you, I've lived both sides of this and it ain't pretty from EITHER side!
confused jen - hugs to you. don't know if you go to al-anon or not, but try to get yourself some info to remind you that no, he does not think or act normal as long as he drinks.
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Poor me, poor me, pour me another drink.
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jen, I haven't read all your posts, but have you tried Al-Anon?? Did you get the book, "Under the Influence" ??? and other books suggested???
I know it is their problem, and most of us cannot understand why they don't see the problem etc.
Once they drink enough to cross the line into alcoholism then in my opinion it is too late for them to help themselves. Most need detox then 28 days in treatment with good regular meals, vitamins, lots of protein snacks, and then maybe a halfway house.
Then just my opinion, but I think it takes about 2 years to get sobriety under controll, many relapse at one year.
No matter what I share there are always exceptionst, each person, each relationship is different.
The book "Under the Influence" by the name sounds like a drunk-a-log , I think it should be named "WHY", It helps explain how and WHY they become alcoholic, then it explains WHY it takes them so long to get sober.
Most people not in recovery expect the A to be totally cured in a 28 day treatment, sometimes even their own parents will say, "Well now that you are all cured, you can have a beer.
Thing is, a recoverying A can be "weller than well" most of us,them included ,do not know that, they find out down the road.
Exceptions there too, some of us are left with lasting problems. As we may have inherited a weakness for heart problems, cancer etc.
He drinks because he HAS to drink, the craving is so extremely strong. Even if only drink a lot on weekends, it stays in our system much longer than a week.
They are addicted, they drink because they are alcoholic.
In treatment centers, I noticed it took the heavy daily drinkers about two weeks to sit up straight, see the grass and sunshine and smile as if they might want to try living.
I was born not sleeping well, and anxiety, and I still have those problems and am a long time sober.
We never had classess in school on living life on life's terms, being female I believed in Prince Charming, and the picket fence, and happily ever after. Life is difficut. It isn't they won't help themselves, it is they can't. They can't see it. Sorry so long, just want to be of help in understanding.
Al-Anon can and will help with your recovery from this life with him.
HUGS
I know it is their problem, and most of us cannot understand why they don't see the problem etc.
Once they drink enough to cross the line into alcoholism then in my opinion it is too late for them to help themselves. Most need detox then 28 days in treatment with good regular meals, vitamins, lots of protein snacks, and then maybe a halfway house.
Then just my opinion, but I think it takes about 2 years to get sobriety under controll, many relapse at one year.
No matter what I share there are always exceptionst, each person, each relationship is different.
The book "Under the Influence" by the name sounds like a drunk-a-log , I think it should be named "WHY", It helps explain how and WHY they become alcoholic, then it explains WHY it takes them so long to get sober.
Most people not in recovery expect the A to be totally cured in a 28 day treatment, sometimes even their own parents will say, "Well now that you are all cured, you can have a beer.
Thing is, a recoverying A can be "weller than well" most of us,them included ,do not know that, they find out down the road.
Exceptions there too, some of us are left with lasting problems. As we may have inherited a weakness for heart problems, cancer etc.
He drinks because he HAS to drink, the craving is so extremely strong. Even if only drink a lot on weekends, it stays in our system much longer than a week.
They are addicted, they drink because they are alcoholic.
In treatment centers, I noticed it took the heavy daily drinkers about two weeks to sit up straight, see the grass and sunshine and smile as if they might want to try living.
I was born not sleeping well, and anxiety, and I still have those problems and am a long time sober.
We never had classess in school on living life on life's terms, being female I believed in Prince Charming, and the picket fence, and happily ever after. Life is difficut. It isn't they won't help themselves, it is they can't. They can't see it. Sorry so long, just want to be of help in understanding.
Al-Anon can and will help with your recovery from this life with him.
HUGS
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I have been to one alanon, what can I do to help in the meantime, it seems he picks a fight with me so he has an excuse to say "oh I need a drink now" im fed up, he says he loves me but he has a very funny way of showing it.
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You know, after I wrote this I had to leave for an AA meeting and my conscience started bothering me right away and almost to the point where I almost turned the car around and came home to post again. But, I was meant to go to that meeting.
I know that what I said could be taken the wrong way, like I have no compassion for those still struggling with active drinking. The things I shared are things that I've heard, learned firsthand, and seen in the doors of AA. I started thinking though about what drove the bad behavior on my part and it was always fear. I was scared of feeling things, scared of facing problems, scared of hurting people, scared of not being in control, scared of being in too much control. I learned at age 35 that getting drunk I didn't have to face those things right then. I didn't have to deal with my AH if I was drunk myself and passed out. I could put off dealing with life on life's terms.
Later on it got to where I could see that I was in trouble. I knew I needed to quit. I didn't know how. I had crossed that line and was now totally dependent on it. My kids and my mom would beg me to quit. I would feel intense shame and remorse and resolve to do something about myself. Then the fear would kick back in and I would drink again followed by more shame and remorse and more fear and the beat goes on. It was terrifying to be so controlled by a substance that it was all I could think about and I would do stupid things just to get it or to hide it. By then I had also gotten a taste of what physical withdrawal felt like (the throwing up, crapping blood, shaking violently) and I was terrified of that too and did everything conceivable to not have to go through that including drinking on my lunch hour. I was truly in hell and could not see my way out. Alcohol had thoroughly and completely kicked my *ss.
That is why I said that an alcoholic isn't going to do anything about themselves until the pain of continuing is worse than the pain of not drinking. I went through those withdrawals again and told myself that I never had to do that again if I chose not to if I could just get through them this time.
I have compassion for the still sick ones and I don't think that I am better than them. In thinking about the tone of my post I felt that I needed to share that and remind myself of who and what I am. A sober drunk who has broken free for today.
I'm sorry if this is seen as hi-jacking this thread but I felt I needed to say this on top of what I had already said. I don't regret what I said earlier because it is all true but I felt it was important to humble myself and remember that just because I'm doing better that others aren't yet.
Thank you all for listening,
Kellye
I know that what I said could be taken the wrong way, like I have no compassion for those still struggling with active drinking. The things I shared are things that I've heard, learned firsthand, and seen in the doors of AA. I started thinking though about what drove the bad behavior on my part and it was always fear. I was scared of feeling things, scared of facing problems, scared of hurting people, scared of not being in control, scared of being in too much control. I learned at age 35 that getting drunk I didn't have to face those things right then. I didn't have to deal with my AH if I was drunk myself and passed out. I could put off dealing with life on life's terms.
Later on it got to where I could see that I was in trouble. I knew I needed to quit. I didn't know how. I had crossed that line and was now totally dependent on it. My kids and my mom would beg me to quit. I would feel intense shame and remorse and resolve to do something about myself. Then the fear would kick back in and I would drink again followed by more shame and remorse and more fear and the beat goes on. It was terrifying to be so controlled by a substance that it was all I could think about and I would do stupid things just to get it or to hide it. By then I had also gotten a taste of what physical withdrawal felt like (the throwing up, crapping blood, shaking violently) and I was terrified of that too and did everything conceivable to not have to go through that including drinking on my lunch hour. I was truly in hell and could not see my way out. Alcohol had thoroughly and completely kicked my *ss.
That is why I said that an alcoholic isn't going to do anything about themselves until the pain of continuing is worse than the pain of not drinking. I went through those withdrawals again and told myself that I never had to do that again if I chose not to if I could just get through them this time.
I have compassion for the still sick ones and I don't think that I am better than them. In thinking about the tone of my post I felt that I needed to share that and remind myself of who and what I am. A sober drunk who has broken free for today.
I'm sorry if this is seen as hi-jacking this thread but I felt I needed to say this on top of what I had already said. I don't regret what I said earlier because it is all true but I felt it was important to humble myself and remember that just because I'm doing better that others aren't yet.
Thank you all for listening,
Kellye
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jen, It is my feeling that they don't know why they are feeling nervous, anxious, just miserable, so they are looking for a reason, I feel they really don't realize that their whole system needs that drink. So when we look around who is standing there? "YOU " so that must be the reason. At work, they know they would get fired, so no acting out with the people there. If living with parents they take it out on them.
Then when you are not there, he is wondering why he is unhappy and miserable. (again does not know it is because of the alcohol in his system) so not remembering much unless reminded, he thinks, it is because I miss her. They are unhappy if it rains, they are unhappy because the sun shines, it either hurts their eyes, or too hot, whatever.
Another tidbitt, they go thru horribe withdrawal when they don't have enough alcohol.
They can have DT's , etc. Not remembering can be blackouts.
I suggest you do not attempt to tell him any of this, he will say you are crazy, or you are makeing it up. Just another reason for a drink, or to argue.
I am now feeling I tried to tell you too much at one time. Please go to Al-Anon and get a sponser, and start baby steps and live one day at a time.
Then when you are not there, he is wondering why he is unhappy and miserable. (again does not know it is because of the alcohol in his system) so not remembering much unless reminded, he thinks, it is because I miss her. They are unhappy if it rains, they are unhappy because the sun shines, it either hurts their eyes, or too hot, whatever.
Another tidbitt, they go thru horribe withdrawal when they don't have enough alcohol.
They can have DT's , etc. Not remembering can be blackouts.
I suggest you do not attempt to tell him any of this, he will say you are crazy, or you are makeing it up. Just another reason for a drink, or to argue.
I am now feeling I tried to tell you too much at one time. Please go to Al-Anon and get a sponser, and start baby steps and live one day at a time.
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Originally Posted by Kellye D
I started thinking though about what drove the bad behavior on my part and it was always fear.
Jen, please do try to focus on you. You say you've been to one al-anon. You then ask what can you do to help in the meantime? Believe me when I tell you the way to help him is to help yourself. It took me a long time to understand this. I believe it's in the Getting Them Sober book, I'm not sure, but I finally took this to heart (I'm paraphrasing): be the first person in his life to say I believe in you enough to allow you to make your own mistakes and take control of your life.
Good luck to you.
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Originally Posted by Kellye D
You know, after I wrote this I had to leave for an AA meeting and my conscience started bothering me right away and almost to the point where I almost turned the car around and came home to post again. But, I was meant to go to that meeting.
I know that what I said could be taken the wrong way, like I have no compassion for those still struggling with active drinking. The things I shared are things that I've heard, learned firsthand, and seen in the doors of AA. I started thinking though about what drove the bad behavior on my part and it was always fear. I was scared of feeling things, scared of facing problems, scared of hurting people, scared of not being in control, scared of being in too much control. I learned at age 35 that getting drunk I didn't have to face those things right then. I didn't have to deal with my AH if I was drunk myself and passed out. I could put off dealing with life on life's terms.
Later on it got to where I could see that I was in trouble. I knew I needed to quit. I didn't know how. I had crossed that line and was now totally dependent on it. My kids and my mom would beg me to quit. I would feel intense shame and remorse and resolve to do something about myself. Then the fear would kick back in and I would drink again followed by more shame and remorse and more fear and the beat goes on. It was terrifying to be so controlled by a substance that it was all I could think about and I would do stupid things just to get it or to hide it. By then I had also gotten a taste of what physical withdrawal felt like (the throwing up, crapping blood, shaking violently) and I was terrified of that too and did everything conceivable to not have to go through that including drinking on my lunch hour. I was truly in hell and could not see my way out. Alcohol had thoroughly and completely kicked my *ss.
That is why I said that an alcoholic isn't going to do anything about themselves until the pain of continuing is worse than the pain of not drinking. I went through those withdrawals again and told myself that I never had to do that again if I chose not to if I could just get through them this time.
I have compassion for the still sick ones and I don't think that I am better than them. In thinking about the tone of my post I felt that I needed to share that and remind myself of who and what I am. A sober drunk who has broken free for today.
I'm sorry if this is seen as hi-jacking this thread but I felt I needed to say this on top of what I had already said. I don't regret what I said earlier because it is all true but I felt it was important to humble myself and remember that just because I'm doing better that others aren't yet.
Thank you all for listening,
Kellye
I know that what I said could be taken the wrong way, like I have no compassion for those still struggling with active drinking. The things I shared are things that I've heard, learned firsthand, and seen in the doors of AA. I started thinking though about what drove the bad behavior on my part and it was always fear. I was scared of feeling things, scared of facing problems, scared of hurting people, scared of not being in control, scared of being in too much control. I learned at age 35 that getting drunk I didn't have to face those things right then. I didn't have to deal with my AH if I was drunk myself and passed out. I could put off dealing with life on life's terms.
Later on it got to where I could see that I was in trouble. I knew I needed to quit. I didn't know how. I had crossed that line and was now totally dependent on it. My kids and my mom would beg me to quit. I would feel intense shame and remorse and resolve to do something about myself. Then the fear would kick back in and I would drink again followed by more shame and remorse and more fear and the beat goes on. It was terrifying to be so controlled by a substance that it was all I could think about and I would do stupid things just to get it or to hide it. By then I had also gotten a taste of what physical withdrawal felt like (the throwing up, crapping blood, shaking violently) and I was terrified of that too and did everything conceivable to not have to go through that including drinking on my lunch hour. I was truly in hell and could not see my way out. Alcohol had thoroughly and completely kicked my *ss.
That is why I said that an alcoholic isn't going to do anything about themselves until the pain of continuing is worse than the pain of not drinking. I went through those withdrawals again and told myself that I never had to do that again if I chose not to if I could just get through them this time.
I have compassion for the still sick ones and I don't think that I am better than them. In thinking about the tone of my post I felt that I needed to share that and remind myself of who and what I am. A sober drunk who has broken free for today.
I'm sorry if this is seen as hi-jacking this thread but I felt I needed to say this on top of what I had already said. I don't regret what I said earlier because it is all true but I felt it was important to humble myself and remember that just because I'm doing better that others aren't yet.
Thank you all for listening,
Kellye
I told him earlier to leave me alone and now I feel bad as I cant get hold of him, then I fear what if he has done something silly, should I go and check on him??
this is so hard, im trying to do tough love but it doesnt seem to be working, its like he enjoys wallowing in his own self pitty, I know he probably dosnt but thats the way it looks???thanks for you help I was thinking do you think it would help to copy your post and show him what you wrote as it might stike a cord with him? or not, would something llike that have helped you when you where at his point? xx
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be the first person in his life to say I believe in you enough to allow you to make your own mistakes and take control of your life.
Wow, how powerful is THAT???
I agree, please go to Al-Anon and focus on healing yourself.
Big hugs,
Kellye
Wow, how powerful is THAT???
I agree, please go to Al-Anon and focus on healing yourself.
Big hugs,
Kellye
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Location: London
Posts: 74
Originally Posted by Clancy46
jen, It is my feeling that they don't know why they are feeling nervous, anxious, just miserable, so they are looking for a reason, I feel they really don't realize that their whole system needs that drink. So when we look around who is standing there? "YOU " so that must be the reason. At work, they know they would get fired, so no acting out with the people there. If living with parents they take it out on them.
Then when you are not there, he is wondering why he is unhappy and miserable. (again does not know it is because of the alcohol in his system) so not remembering much unless reminded, he thinks, it is because I miss her. They are unhappy if it rains, they are unhappy because the sun shines, it either hurts their eyes, or too hot, whatever.
Another tidbitt, they go thru horribe withdrawal when they don't have enough alcohol.
They can have DT's , etc. Not remembering can be blackouts.
I suggest you do not attempt to tell him any of this, he will say you are crazy, or you are makeing it up. Just another reason for a drink, or to argue.
I am now feeling I tried to tell you too much at one time. Please go to Al-Anon and get a sponser, and start baby steps and live one day at a time.
Then when you are not there, he is wondering why he is unhappy and miserable. (again does not know it is because of the alcohol in his system) so not remembering much unless reminded, he thinks, it is because I miss her. They are unhappy if it rains, they are unhappy because the sun shines, it either hurts their eyes, or too hot, whatever.
Another tidbitt, they go thru horribe withdrawal when they don't have enough alcohol.
They can have DT's , etc. Not remembering can be blackouts.
I suggest you do not attempt to tell him any of this, he will say you are crazy, or you are makeing it up. Just another reason for a drink, or to argue.
I am now feeling I tried to tell you too much at one time. Please go to Al-Anon and get a sponser, and start baby steps and live one day at a time.
yes I will go again tomorrow, so he doesnt really miss me then, I doudt if he ever really loved me to be honest, maybe I was just right place right time as he was at a low when I met him and I made him feel good about himself as told him what he had always wanted to hear to fill his emotional void. hay hoo, I doudt everything now, I feel a little duped into marrying someone who wasnt honest with me, kinda like the vows we took where just fake
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Originally Posted by confused_jen
thanks for you help I was thinking do you think it would help to copy your post and show him what you wrote as it might stike a cord with him? or not, would something llike that have helped you when you where at his point? xx
Kellye
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