equus

My hubby isn't alcohol, he isn't alcoholism, he isn't a victim, he isn't addiction, he isn't obsession, compulsion or or any disorder.

I know that because disorders don't do crosswords, choose clothes that feel good, or buy 'build at home' bubble blowing machine kits.

Kellye C

Thank you! Another SR member has this on her signature. "I am an alcoholic - but that is not all I am." I can really relate to that. The longer I stay sober the more I learn about the me that has been there all along just waiting to get out.

Hugs,
Kellye

cwohio

you are right eq - it's sometimes very difficult to pry the two apart and see them as 2 separate things. thank you for the reminder!

susane1408

I have never had any difficulty seeing the person and not the affliction or disability; thats the way I was brought up.
Seeing people categorised in this way upsets me and at times makes me angry.

minnie

I went on a huge trip from seeing the person who was presented to me, then not being able to seperate the alcoholism and the person, to finally being able to divorce the two. Problem was, I didn't like the person underneath. Or rather, the person underneath the illusion and the drinking. I have no idea who the person underneath all of that is - and I suspect he doesn't either. No wonder I'm still reeling - the above process happened in about 2 years.

I understand where you're both coming from, Equus and Susane. Whilst we are joined by a common bond in that we have been (or are still are) intimately involved with people with a drinking problem, many of the stories on here go far beyond drinking as the main issue.

LaTeeDa

Isn't that the truth? I'm not even sure I know what the "main" issue is anymore. There are just so many........

L

equus

I should think learning to see the person makes things a lot clearer. I've always said I know full well I wouldn't want most alcoholics as a partner - I wouldn't want most people as a partner, actually aside from D because we fit I never really wanted anyone else as a partner! There are many other people I love having in my life but I couldn't get my head round being able to live as affectionately and peacefully with them. D has the patience of a saint with me, and I do my best to return the favour. It helps that his faults tend to make me laugh too and we both hate to truly stuff up!

It's easier for me because my view of 'disease' is very clinical, it's simply not capable of being human, the human side is just that - human.

StandingStrong

I relate to a lot of what Minnie said.
For me, I enjoyed your post equus because I believe that sometimes there lies a good person underneath the illness.
But in my own realization over the past year - I've come to understand that the things that I blamed on the alcoholism (Such as his verbal abuse, his financial decisions, and his irresponsibility) were not really symptoms of his alcoholisms. Perhaps I blindly blamed it all on the alcohol as my own way of denying the person that he truly was/is. Sometimes now I still get confused. Ah is a binger, therefore he can go long periods of time without using - and yet it is during these times that I realize that the other issues are still there.
It's been painful for me to see the person that he is. I'm uncertain if ah actually sees the person he is (as he still does the blame game, justification, etc).

Your post though equus reminds me that not all A's are the same - not all are the person that presents themselves. There are those that are good people underneath. Unfortunately, I don't think that ah is who I thought he was - and it's hard to bear sometimes.

Thank you for sharing though as your post made me smile. I am glad that you can see the man underneath and feel that love for him that makes so many of us here at SR smile.

Zoey

equus...I understand ya! Anyway, we both agree they are humans , as good as anyone else. We both like to research, and do not take just one research as law, we watch for other research and douuble check and ask questions.(You much better than I)
All of us are different with our emotions, lifestyles, dreams, came from different backgrounds, all ok with me and you, right???

Could this be as simple as my great love for pecan pie, and you are allergic to it.
You love Strawberry Sundae's and I am allergic, so we agree to go someplace for a rootbeer. because we are friends, and we are not our allergies. We do 20 other things we both like. So we ignore or work around the pie.

So I love AA, and you favor other answers for support etc. Your way is working, I think that is great. I have no problem with that, I just said you would love AA, not that it was needed or right for you two, I meant just something of interest, but then when I carried on about it, you probably thought I was pushing it down your throat. ???? Now what were you thinking ?? SMILE

This site is so great, we are not held to set rules, so I feel we learn more.

equus

It's fine with me! I like different things and people being around - a bit like evolution, we need variety to grow.


I'm a bit lost but on the other thread I liked that you thought I'd love AA - I'd much rather that than you imagine it being horrid for me! I kept my answer short not because I was offended but because I can't really see much point in going into details why I think it isn't the way for me.

Mostly I like getting on with folk - but I tend to fit in better with people that know me. I start off badly I think but over time things work out. I love community but not so much 'groups', I prefer to wander in and out - like chatting in the kebab shop or nattering with a neighbour or being here. Group stuff reminds me of school and I get ants in my pants - I don't know why but it brings out the worst in me when I feel trapped. I won't even do group sports like aerobics, I prefered individual or two people sports - I rarely rode out in company unless I was teaching a groom, others paired up to ride, I used to ride alone and found endless polite ways to avoid any kind of group ride!!

I don't want a whole world of 'me's' THAT would scare the poo out of me, I'm a right grump sometimes.

FormerDoormat

I think I've quoted you on this about a dozen times now, Equus (because I think it was so darn wise). But I, too, believe "there's a person behind the disease." Sometimes that person is good and kind and lovely and dependable. Sometimes that person is selfish and unkind and deceitful and manipulative. The world is full of all types, as we've seen here on SoberRecovery.

I think we all need to look carefully at the person behind the disease to determine if we can live with them sober.

Five

I agree with what Minnnie says. I dont have to like someone. Evidence builds up and I finally think, sheesh, that person I just dont like. The difference is I dont want to hurt people I dont like, I dont want to see them tortured or suffering. I just dont really want much to do with them.

I think deep and dark morality, when the person is labelled as sick and selfish, dishonest, diseased, immoral etc is not my bag. People I dont like I ignore, hope they get on well with life, and leave it at that. Unless I know absoloutley everything about that person, then who am I to judge?

Is there a definite moral code that people can be measured by? What do we do with those who fall short of this supposed moral code? I think if they brake the law and hurt someone then they should be arrested - but beside that, its their life. Whoever they hurt one hopes they get away from that person.

equus

I believe in a moral code - one that evaluates behaviour NOT people. It's simpler for me to justify a behaviour falling short of being moral - for instance a man beating his wife.

Like you I have feelings about who I choose to spend my time around and those feelings for me are largely based on how I see them treat people. I don't expect any kind of perfection but feel strongly about seeing the intention to be caring and not cause harm reflected in actions and words.

For those I choose not to spend my time around I still try to keep to NOT summing the whole of them up by a single period of their life, or by picking aspects of their behaviour. However I have no problem saying why I think some behaviours are harmful - as long as I can justify what I feel about those actions.

All I need to do for me is to know choose those to be around, not only CAN'T I judge whole people - I don't need to.

Five

I can find it in me to feel love for facists, racists, bigots, sexists. If I use my skills of empathy I can find a feeling - a human feeling. I believe it is that feeling that defines my moral code. I think ideas and functions of man should be put under critical examination - but rarely the man himself. We all have childhoods, economic, social factors that contribute to our personalities, I think. Once I understand someone, their life, and all that has happened to them - its diffiult for me to feel hate...No one wakes up one day and decides to be a bastard or an evil person. It normally takes years of subtle factors...

Cynay

Amen... I so agree with that.

It took me years in counceling to get that (and alot of money) pounded into my head... Once it was though, I was able to have a loving and wonderful relationship with my Mother.

She has passed now, and I realize what a complete loss it would have been had I stayed stuck in the emotion of hate and not been able to discover what an amazing person she was and how far she came from her childhood and the pains in her life.

L8YNRED

I can separate the person from the disease. I can love the person in spite of the disease. I can see the many many fine qualities in the person I love.

I still don't want to live with untreated, unchecked, active alcoholism.
I still don't want to live with the consequences of his drinking.

I love him. I wish him well. I hope he finds his way.

It just isn't good for me to be around him. I am not well enough. I won't get well with his active drinking in my house.

This time I chose my own best interests for a change.