Cynay

Wow.... I love the strength I hear in your writing...

You have the plan, you have the strength... just two week of sticktoit and your on your way to a better life.

Being on the other side of it I can say Heck Ya ... what was I waiting for????

LiLL

Just want to wish you all the best sunshine003! If you feel like you have to leave, it must be your heart telling you to. Even though you're not very sure, it's what you want instinctively.

This morning my AH again repeated the same speech of how he's going to make it TODAY. And I've heard the same speech for numerous times over the past two years. I don't know why I'm still here. I just know one day when i've had enough I'll go.

Glad you've made up your mind. That brings me hope about my recovery too.

Aquiana

Yay Sunshine! Congratulations on your decision. Give'er and don't look back. You'll be so glad you did. We're all listening here no matter what.

jojo

Sunshine -

Your post is so full of clear thinking. You can just tell that you know you are doing the right thing not only for you but for your kids. You are so lucky to have the mom that you do. It is never easy to leave but it sounds to me like you have a plan and are willing to follow through on it. Try not to listen to and respond to the manipulation or anger that will come when he realizes what your plans are. I, too, left the state and it really made things much easier. I have never once regretted leaving. The sense of peace is amazing! Good luck to you and your kids.

Hugs, Jo

guyinNC

God I hate alcoholism. The familys destroyed, the children abused, hearts broken.....

You show such strength! Good luck!

sunshine003

thank you jojo...that was good to hear , especially about leaving the state. I am bracing myself for the anger and that is why I decided to get my plan in action and not speak of it until a few days before. His anger is something that always sends me into codependant mode. I'm going to do it my way without thinking it's mean or that I owe him anything. I owe myself something more. Somehow I feel like I'm sneaking around, doing this behind his back but the truth is, it's what's best for me to do it this way. Thanks again everyone.

mythreesons

Keep moving forward girl! How strong you sound and how proud you should be of your decision to take care of yourself and your children. Your three beautiful children are so lucky to have a brave, caring mommy. You are going to thrive!

hittwice

Anyone know how to get THEM out of the house. I want a zero tolerance atmosphere, people have been damaged enough, I really don't care if the drinking is gone (read that hidden well), and I cannot believe him or his lies to me our kids and himself. Right now I don't want to file (right away anyhow), for financial reasons. I have told him OUT, but he just lays around and stays IN on (manipulative good behavior) . I do not plan to be "understanding" in the divorice, it's rock bottom time for me, and he says "At least I don't beat you", or "I have no where to go" or "Give me time" or acts like NONE of these conversations took place. I am done with the lies, and therefore done with him. I am afraid to file first, cause then I have to leave or so I have heard.

My goal is no more disruption or fighting, (we fight about saying hello in the morning,sick and sad) and to NOT make the kids do his work for him, he is the one that made these choices, he then can suffer the consequences. So far all the talk, has resulted in a total shutdown. I know this cycle, and have seen it done and manipulated back to his favor for years,usually by lying or empty promises, or offers to BUY me something and it is only a matter of time till it begins again. I have come to know this bull all too well. Naturally. I can no longer stiffle or hope, or care. I just want peace at any cost, but right now I really hate total financial ruin, if at all avoidable.Any suggestions?

hittwice

Sunshine, see my post to you on another thread. I wanted to add what it most likely be like if you were to stay. Especially where your kids are concerned.

While I was home holding down the fort,(to his two job travels and nighttime hours) and mistakenly in part thinking my husband was working hard for us (he was, but he was also fitting in his own party) I did it all at home but earn the money. From the time they were little (I have four) I tried support(his working hard) their Dad being gone all the time, and I got hobbies to cover my hurting from his neglect of the kids and me. I thought being a stoic partner made me a good wife. I never suspected an alcohol problem, I guess I trusted him and his firm belief in "straight and narrow" behavior. (of course I now know that was a lie to himself and me too).

I did grapple with the inconsistancy of why it seemed that while he said he was doing this for us, according to him, he never had the TIME for us. He was very selfish around home, and never planned or did anything to include us (a couple) or (as a family.) I let it go more than I should have, feeling "sorry" for all the hours he had worked, or been on the road.

There were a few occassions where through the military a family was "required" so we were taken out dusted off and made presentable for HIS sake. Other than that NOTHING. I took the kids to my parents farm nearly EVERY weekend, or when he was "out of town" and out of touch. It gave us something fun and safe to do.

The more he worked (and drank unbeknownst to me, apparently and who knows what else) the more I had to do at home. Still I think I am doing my part, holding down the fort. I did not suspect alcohol or have any REAL reason to until I got SICK.

All went according to HIS plan, till I got old (female stuff) and sick (hernia) from too much man work that he never had time for. All along I thought we were a team and I tried not to focus on MY needs, in the name of our financial or other family need. All was put "on hold" for his retirement. His idea not mine exactly. It was just something else to not account for the here and now, or the neglect. Bad trade off.

Finally I began to see signs of worrysome alcohol over use (noticed the ever increasing and ever present home six pack supply could not run out, receipts from out of town where he bought liquor, small airline bottles, the hidden and not hidden bottles in his car, bottles of hard stuff in his bag he took to work, etc. and the behavior when he was home, became even more self centered, or drunkenly I now know, mom called it the "rosy glow" and over happy, and then totally isolated and mean if challenged at all to "do something else" .... and his demeanor unbelieveably selfish....demanding with no recriprocating...it stunk).

What really stunk was finally getting him into counseling, only to have the counselor declare him not an alcoholic based on assesment test that my H answered (pathological liars have no qualms about not being truthful on such assesments). I was told he was just "acting out". I stopped going to THAT counselor. I knew what I had seen, felt and otherwise how alcohol use HAD to be the cause, or the EXCUSE for BAD behavior. Now he had a license to kill, so to speak. I had no validation whatsoever.

This was after ten plus years of "excuses" as to why he was gone all the time. The money was all I needed, right? In short by the time I realized WHAT was up, it was over and a done deal... full blown alcoholism. (my dad was an alcoholic, so it had to be the absences that made it hard to see, I really KNEW the other signs once it was too late). I think if I wrote a book on what are the signs it would be a best seller. We can't acknowledge what we can't see, right?

Looking back I now totally understand why and how he used the kids (some teens some younger) to manipulate ME into a position of being "the problem" or a no one. He did this with manipulation of them against me with LIES about me. I then attempted to "set it straight" and was aghast that they would believe any of them, when after all I was the "main parent" the rock and the always there, all their lives.

His checking out, and never coming to my aid or presenting a united front, but always the "good guy" that sided with their "misbehavior" perplexed me for a while till I realized he needed them as ALLIES against me. I thought my "good parenting all those years" could overshadow his bad. NOT.

The more he lied, the more they believed even though the "proof was right in front of them". (he was a cop, and we all know cops don't lie). If I went to the grocery store I was abandoning them, and him. If I got angry about anything I was MEAN and crazy. If I went to moms to avoid the fighting (no physical and he didn't seem drunk) I was an unfit mother. If I got sick I was a hypochondriac. If I cried I was selfish. Or too sensitive. He really capitilized on the conflicts between teen girls and mom, and always took THEIR side. He milked their trust and love too you see.

It got so bad they treated me exactly like he did. I was a scapegoat to eveyone in my own home. It HAD to be MOM"S FAULT. No matter how outrages they behaved, he looked the other way or would not come to my aid while it was happening.

Buying groceries, clothes, school stuff, gas, and other "treats" to make life fun and enjoyable made me a spendthrift, and therefore the problem, wasn't he working so hard for us? If I would only do what he said, all would be ok. NOT. For one thing doing what he said, changed every day as he "couldn't remember, forgot, or just said anything it took to "passify me" . In his words, "the lie that will fly" became the norm.
Doing what he said gave him total control, and therefore the lack of accountibility.

The brainwash was thorough and complete. He allied the three oldest, by spoiling them rotten, against everything I said or saw needing "fixed". He needed "fixed" by himself most of all. Everyone and everything changed but him.

Whatever I said or did, he corrected me or took the opposing view. It was so throrough and complete erasure of me, (cause I wasn't behaving and saw the REAL PROBLEM) that life became unbearable at home for EVERYONE. He would not "help" correct HIS problem, everything had to revolve around His need and justifications. Mind you he kept his jobs and was a so called "functioning" drinker. Everyone at work loved and respected him. I did not, I therefore became the enemy under attack. If he would have put his efforts into himself we would have all been better off. He chose the easiest path. Fix everyone else, he was not "sick" and therefore would stay the same.

My life's work, my children, were just a means to an end. I couldn't help them "SEE" and there was by this time plenty of visual evidence of HIS problem, and the more I tried the more he upped the ante. I couldn't even keep them from being used, as my credibility had been systematically and very cruelly distroyed completely.

He manipulated "trouble" and then stood back and watched me try and "damage control" as payback for my "not accepting it or him or his bad parenting or lies, buys (goodies when he was "in trouble" or to make me look ungratefull and excuses.

I got well and out of hell, enough to decide to end it, mentally, you can detach mentally. You cannot detach from the problems(those at home or interpersonal or the damage to YOU) created however. But first for the sake of the kids, (even seperated his drinking was going to cause PROBLEMS) I once more called a spade a spade and gave some untimatims. I could not monitor his "behavior" towards them once divoriced and I knew the courts would give him equal access. I did not want a DRUNK in charge of the kids driving or otherwise. Mind you he wasn't an obvious drunk, just a very heavy irresponsible with his mouth drinker. This got me more PAYback and Pain.

Trust me you do NOT want this for you or your kids.
As shamefull as this is to admit, or "why didn't you do anything?" I can honestly say, while in it, it was very hard to see exactly WHAT was going on, (very covert and passive aggressive with more passive than aggressive other than the cussing) until I discovered that alcohol was a main ingredient in our problems. He had "some problems" but the alcohol set em all free. It was his throne, and his only loyalty to it that WAS the problem, to avoid ANY responsibility (once retired) and to not answer to self, he blamed and destroyed me and a good bit of my relationship with my children.

I found this out the hard way. Now I have to live with the "crazies" manifested, and created for me or by me trying to do the "right" thing. Don't wait for that to happen to you.

You get the picture. Now I was "in the game" trying to defend, clarify etc. They would have none of it. You see, they KNEW I loved them, but they weren't about to lose the Daddy they had never had, on account of ME. He gave them authority over me, and being young they took it.

His lies and manipulations worked so well, I looked like the "basket case drunk insane idiot, and out of control person" while he (drunk and lying) and very cold and calculating looked "in control". In short he seemed rational and I seemed irrational. Gaslighting.

Please know you are doing the absolutely right thing as I watched my precious children being totally damaged by the lies (he is not a mean drunk, or an obvious one). I was seen as the "party poop", while he USED his children for HIS entertainment against me. Everytime I talked to him about the damage to them, I gave him ammunition to use against me. Killing me off became the sport of my family under HIS guidance. They ALL use or attempt to use the children to control you, or make you the "problem". They ways they will do it some are not always overt, but can be very sneaky and covert, while being "respectible and credible".

Trying to get them to stop, just lets them know it is working. Even knowing my Dad used me to make mom compliant or jealous or the "outsider" in much the same way, didn't make sense till the alcohol use was uncovered for what it was. Knowing is not protection to you or your kids.

YOU and your kids will be in a total no win to his need to "not be the problem". I so admire you for seeing it what it is EARLY on, and in your courage to take the steps to end it. You cannot mentally detach, it sometimes is seen as a green light anyway, you must detach from everything. Unless you are able to do that, that which is going to be harmful to you and your kids if YOU shut down and give in, you must detach from everything causing the problem, THEM. Get em out, or leave. That is the only way, I now know to avoid futher damage.

Had I known it was alcoholism and not just workalcoholism, maybe I could have found the rationale and the courage...........sadly I did not. Goood luck and good life.

escape artist

DANG hittwice! i think you should post this (see above) seperately so that we can use it as a sticky note!

btw- i hope you are going to an al-anon meeting, because it will definitely help you undo the damage that has been done to you and your kids. good luck!

sunshine003

thanks hittwice. If I can't muster up the strength to leave on my own, I look at them and find it again. It's hard but I know it's not impossible. I already am sick, I feel it in my self doubt, I feel it when I put faith into his word vs. the lie I know as truth, I feel it when I think, "maybe it isn't that bad." I too, am one who holds down the fort, doing all the work in the home. Even though I feel "not ready" in the sense that I know my world will crash down as I spiral into self doubt, I'm doing it anyway, I'll deal with the aftermath once I get to where I'm going, anywhere but here. Thank you for taking the time to post all that to me!

hittwice

Thank you. If I have learned one thing in all of this it is the amazing power of denial. His, mine to myself, and that of my children. Seems we have a part of the brain that instinctively "denies" that which is painful to our hearts or soul, maybe our brains just "won't allow" us to feel that which will totally kill our spirits, and leave us with no hope.

Perhaps logic goes out, when HUGE pain comes in. I am very sad that my best friends and the love of my life, and the purpose of my life, MY CHILDREN, do not believe me about their Dad, in spite of all evidence to the contrary (especially during my discovery stage).

Maybe because they were young, when it was at it's worst. (don't always just think "midlife", and remember DRINKING often takes hold then too the stats are very high in that being one of the really bad symptoms, when we may just be seeing it for a midlife crisis, you can not see everything for what it really is. If they WANT it hidden even harder. It is the not trusting OURSELVES enough that gets us everytime.

I knew the dangers of "covering for him" from my childhood, and also decided I would NOT leave the kids to his "lies". It became an obsession to me to "erase his lies about me" and to have my babies back in reality with me (to see the reason for all this crazy behavior on his part and mine). Wrong move. They didn't want to believe even when I had pictures (to prove I wasn't crazy" or imagining things) from bottles taken from his car or in his bag or something.

I did not do this to destroy HIM, but to rescue them and me. THEY DID NOT WANT to accept (what they couldn't handle?) the truth as young adults or teens. They just hated me for exposing it, like Daddy had the RIGHT, therefore was IN THE RIGHT. So he has a drink now and then, he is NOT your father, they ALL told me. HMMMMMMMMMMM. In almost everyway he was JUST LIKE MY FATHER, just a shade more "respectible" because he was a person with two very respected professions, as was my Dad, until he chose to overdrink, and of course my Dad is more late stage now.

My point is I guess in order to kill off me, he killed off my closeness with my girls. That made me hate him all the more, as it left me VERY alone, and without anyone. Cept maybe my mom, and he totally blackballed her too, so that he also damaged the relationship with the grandma that helped "entertain" them when they were so young and he was neglecting them.

The only real question I had was "how can they do this so well......and get away with it". I do not think there is an answer other than they have no reservations, or guilt receptors or souls or something and everything and everyone is sacrificed to their god in a bottle.

Unbelievably I am still here, not hoping, not wishing, just "deer in the headlights" totally frozen to take the measures I know I should have long ago for my OWN happiness. You see I have a still pretty young child, and frankly I am terrified at how I would keep her and the house, and I love my home, and my life is HERE. He is not mean, and often doesn't even seem to drink (retired home all day) but I do not TRUST him at all. I cannot forgive, or forget "those days" and for all I know he is "sneaking" some from somewhere.

Many things have changed (for the best) though we still fight about what he did or has done. Last year we built my art studio (finally) and once again I was "bribed" into not leaving, it worked and it shames me. Then I decide to be kind to me, life is what it is. Life is good, if I don't expect much from him. I am not young anymore and very used to this "deal with the devil" and frankly too old to "start over". He is not mean anymore, seems to not drink, just two people in two seperate worlds. I am the changed one, and have to be very hard, and draw a hard line of mental self protection.

I know the makes me seem like hypocrite........my knowledge hit pretty late in life, and I mistakenly wanted my cake and to eat it too. I know my mistakes, if I had it to do again, knowing now what I didn't know then, I would and should have left. NO one believes he is a drinker or was, so what is the point. I take care of me. My children are gone, or about to be, and only the youngest is still here. I do "damage control" now by the same tactics he used on me...........I remind him I have pictures, and money of my own and that stops lots of his "misbehaving". I think too, he got it out of his system for the most part, and mostly he is harmless. Another trade off. Perhaps this was temporiary, perhaps not. I am tough enough to deal with most of it, when young and dependant with babies and in the dark I was not.

I will stay for now, but have my plans ready to go, and there is the HUGE retirement to split so I do not really have to worry about money, much if I do leave. I would rather HE did, but clearly he won't. I guess you could say STALEMATE in every sense of the word. I often wonder about what if...................or how I could have avoided all of this if I had known it for what it was. I would STRONGLY encourage any young person, or young mother to NOT hold out much hope for improvement,(it can get way worse if it EVER does get better) and to NOT stay and waste a life that could be soooooo much better. I felt it was really almost too late for me, and frankly couldn't bear to leave so much behind.

CodeMaster

Dont feel guilty for protecting yourself!

If he's active in alcoholism and hasnt quit (dont care about any "plans to quit"), then go out and experience the greatness life has to offer. I can tell ya my healthy relationship with my current GF for last 3 months have been AMAZING. I have to pinch myself to believe she is real and I keep telling everyone I am so luck to have her cause I dont deserve such a healthy girl in my life.

In anycase, I learned a lot being single after my ex, it was a GRAND time of growth and self awareness, I only wish the same blessings to you!

Its hard to leave, I didnt have the strength to do it until forced, I hope you are much stronger then me! Hope you gain strength from the love of people on this forum.

Best wishes...

BSPGirl

Well seems you've thought it out all pretty well, best of luck to you.

EndOfRoadWife

Good luck sunshine..You really sound like you got your head on straight...The more we quit looking back and just moving forward, the better off we will be....Best of luck to you!!!

Zoey

Do you have a spare bedroom or a shed where he prob doesn't go?? you could get some boxes packed a head of time. Maybe put important things in the trunk.
Do you have friends to help.
Just thinking here.

IrshIzNotSmilin

I am probably replying wrong. Mine begs. Sounds like a dog. I fall for the begging. I feel as if I am the wrong party, I hurt him. WHAT!!! Am I an idiot. Now I have come to that place (and fast also) that with 8months of marriage I must. Deal is this.. episodes you have and I have and we all have dealt with. Here are the rules (whatever works for you) I don't want to see the bad behavior, I don't want the drinking around me when it is out of control, I want to be alone or away from you when you are drunk. Going out with the boys stay in a hotel. Come home and only home when you are sober. Then if you violate this contract, I leave one month, you go AA if you prove you are after a month I consider moving back in because I love you and I want to be with you the sober you, and spend my life with you, but if contract broken I leave . You have to be sure and ready. I am pre-packing a bag all doubles of tolietries, and clothes I can spare to pack. I will leave. I am ready. I am upset and I am hurt. My heartache is huge. I am here too for you. Think it all through and make the decision that is ok for you. God Speed.

sunshine003

Thanks clancy. I am trying to get some stuff together and packed. Problem is, I hardly have anytime to get stuff done without children near me. Friends? yeah right, I have a few I grew up with but they don't live here. Here I don't have any outside of him, you know, I'm isolated. He sulks if I have friends....I know, something I need to work on, LOL. I hired a packing crew so they can get it done in a day where it would take me forever! I haven't been able to discuss it with anyone except you guys here. Friends I have where I live are more "our" friends and I wouldn't trust them.

ASpouse

Pretty soon you'll be able to tell anyone and everyone you want to tell! The anticipation is building for me, I can't imagine what it's like for you.

Zoey

sunshine BIG HUGS So glad you have a packing crew. You will make it.