Need input
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 19
Need input
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum, so let me tell you about myself.
I am 42 years old and divorced. I have been dating a woman for about 6 weeks, but we have been talking for about 3 1/2 months, and I have known her for 4 years or so. Shortly after the first date we both realized that there was a real chemistry between us. If you have been in a relationship with someone who is your "soulmate" you know what I am talking about. I have never felt this way about anyone (not even my ex), and she hasn't either.
About 2 or 3 weeks into our relationship she told me that she needed to tell me something. She then told me about a terrible tragedy in her life, which culminated in her becoming addicted to cocaine. Everyone has a different story, but her tragedy was so bad that an addiction was almost inevitable, in my opinion. She was on cocaine for 14 months, at which time she checked herself into a 30 day intreatment program. Until last weekend she had been clean for 11 months.
We were apart last weekend. But the 2 days or so leading up to the weekend, I had a feeling that something wasn't right. She seemed a little distant. I attributed it to an old boyfriend who called her trying to get back together with her. I know that left her emotionally drained, as he really put the heat on her. Well, Saturday, I couldn't get her on the phone, and my radar went off. I wasn't sure what was happening, but I knew something was amiss. Sure enough she calls me Sunday morning, hysterically crying to tell me that she had relapsed. I went right over.
She was crushed. Absolutely devastated that she had relapsed. I don't think I have ever seen someone so down on themselves. I tried my best to support her, without coddling her or doing anything that would "enable" her. She kept saying that she was scared to death, and that she never wanted to go back to the place she had been (she really bottomed out before going to treatment).
I am crazy about this woman, and she is someone who I could see myself spending the rest of my life with. I know that her being in recovery has brought out characteristics in her that are exactly what I want. She has a spirituality, a lack of pretension, and a love of life that are so appealing. But I simply cannot live with an active addict.
Right now she is still pretty crushed. But soon (after a few days pass) I want to sit down with her and tell her that, if she wants to be together, there have to be some conditions. First, she needs to take care of herself, including going to meetings regularly, etc. Second, I believe in forgiveness and second chances. But to me, her relapse was her second chance, and if she relapses again I am out of there. It seems to me that she needs to prove to me that she is serious about this relapse. I feel pretty sure she is taking it as seriously as me, but I need to see it for myself. It might sound like a tough line to hold (especially tough for me, as I am an especially sympathetic person), but I have a lot to lose. But my feelings are such that I am willing to give it a shot.
Any thoughts?
I am 42 years old and divorced. I have been dating a woman for about 6 weeks, but we have been talking for about 3 1/2 months, and I have known her for 4 years or so. Shortly after the first date we both realized that there was a real chemistry between us. If you have been in a relationship with someone who is your "soulmate" you know what I am talking about. I have never felt this way about anyone (not even my ex), and she hasn't either.
About 2 or 3 weeks into our relationship she told me that she needed to tell me something. She then told me about a terrible tragedy in her life, which culminated in her becoming addicted to cocaine. Everyone has a different story, but her tragedy was so bad that an addiction was almost inevitable, in my opinion. She was on cocaine for 14 months, at which time she checked herself into a 30 day intreatment program. Until last weekend she had been clean for 11 months.
We were apart last weekend. But the 2 days or so leading up to the weekend, I had a feeling that something wasn't right. She seemed a little distant. I attributed it to an old boyfriend who called her trying to get back together with her. I know that left her emotionally drained, as he really put the heat on her. Well, Saturday, I couldn't get her on the phone, and my radar went off. I wasn't sure what was happening, but I knew something was amiss. Sure enough she calls me Sunday morning, hysterically crying to tell me that she had relapsed. I went right over.
She was crushed. Absolutely devastated that she had relapsed. I don't think I have ever seen someone so down on themselves. I tried my best to support her, without coddling her or doing anything that would "enable" her. She kept saying that she was scared to death, and that she never wanted to go back to the place she had been (she really bottomed out before going to treatment).
I am crazy about this woman, and she is someone who I could see myself spending the rest of my life with. I know that her being in recovery has brought out characteristics in her that are exactly what I want. She has a spirituality, a lack of pretension, and a love of life that are so appealing. But I simply cannot live with an active addict.
Right now she is still pretty crushed. But soon (after a few days pass) I want to sit down with her and tell her that, if she wants to be together, there have to be some conditions. First, she needs to take care of herself, including going to meetings regularly, etc. Second, I believe in forgiveness and second chances. But to me, her relapse was her second chance, and if she relapses again I am out of there. It seems to me that she needs to prove to me that she is serious about this relapse. I feel pretty sure she is taking it as seriously as me, but I need to see it for myself. It might sound like a tough line to hold (especially tough for me, as I am an especially sympathetic person), but I have a lot to lose. But my feelings are such that I am willing to give it a shot.
Any thoughts?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Peoria IL
Posts: 7
Don't even waste your time
Once an addict always an addict let me tell you that she'll never be cured if she even goes to meetings she probably won't even listen and did you know all these addicts are hopeless a cancer on humanity
id dump her
*- jessi -*
id dump her
*- jessi -* How Important Is It?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cyberia
Posts: 612
hello - welcome
It hurts so much to see our addicted loved ones suffer.
It sounds like you have thought this through very carefully. You have deep feelings for her, but on the other hand, the relationship is fairly new. You are a decent guy, and you want to do the right thing.
I would suggest gathering information about addiction. There is a great sticky here called "There are many ways to enable an alcoholic" http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...lic-42693.html
You might also benefit from attending Al-anon.
Keep coming back. There is help and hope.
God Bless
Robin
It hurts so much to see our addicted loved ones suffer.
It sounds like you have thought this through very carefully. You have deep feelings for her, but on the other hand, the relationship is fairly new. You are a decent guy, and you want to do the right thing.
I would suggest gathering information about addiction. There is a great sticky here called "There are many ways to enable an alcoholic" http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...lic-42693.html
You might also benefit from attending Al-anon.
Keep coming back. There is help and hope.
God Bless
Robin
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,812
Welcome to SR ... we are glad you found us.
Boy thoughts on this one.... well Im a soft touch, even when I have been hurt. I too believe in "second" chances... unfortunally for me though they usually end up in the 10th to 12 chance before I bust out. Im not good in keeping the boundries.
Im sorry about her relaspe but they say this is common, it sounds to me that you have your blinders off, boundries set and as long as you can stick to them it sounds like a reasonable plan.
I wish the best for the two of you, but you have to remember also that a person who is addicted is ALWAYS addicted. There is not recovered. If they use/drink its said that it is worse then when they ended... they go back to a worse spot. You will have to remember that its a life long issue, there is no cure other then to stay sober. It could happen again ... say in 5 years when there is much more vested. You have not been with her that long and its something I would give serious thought to.
Boy thoughts on this one.... well Im a soft touch, even when I have been hurt. I too believe in "second" chances... unfortunally for me though they usually end up in the 10th to 12 chance before I bust out. Im not good in keeping the boundries.
Im sorry about her relaspe but they say this is common, it sounds to me that you have your blinders off, boundries set and as long as you can stick to them it sounds like a reasonable plan.
I wish the best for the two of you, but you have to remember also that a person who is addicted is ALWAYS addicted. There is not recovered. If they use/drink its said that it is worse then when they ended... they go back to a worse spot. You will have to remember that its a life long issue, there is no cure other then to stay sober. It could happen again ... say in 5 years when there is much more vested. You have not been with her that long and its something I would give serious thought to.
How Important Is It?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cyberia
Posts: 612
Originally Posted by Jessika
Once an addict always an addict let me tell you that she'll never be cured if she even goes to meetings she probably won't even listen and did you know all these addicts are hopeless a cancer on humanity
However, I don't agree that addicts are a hopeless cancer on humanity.
As hard as it is for us, we need to be hopeful and loving in the face of addiction.
Robin
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ohio
Posts: 10
Um, so yeah Im kinda in the same situation. I have been with my fiance for over a year, and he recently relapsed after being sober for almost a year and a half. I know how hard it is... but it sounds like she really wants to be sober, as does my guy. I know I'm gonna stand by him...unless this happens several more times.
I think that's all you really can do, is support them.
I think that's all you really can do, is support them.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
I am crazy about this woman, and she is someone who I could see myself spending the rest of my life with. I know that her being in recovery has brought out characteristics in her that are exactly what I want. She has a spirituality, a lack of pretension, and a love of life that are so appealing. But I simply cannot live with an active addict.
It seems to me that best case scenario (if you stay together) she lives with the threat of you leaving IF you DISCOVER she has used even once. You would live with an uncertainty of whether you could stay, whether you will discover she's used - and what if you think she has but she says not?
I personal feeling is it would set up a situation of insecurity, uncertainty, doubt, suspicion and a high chance of her hiding it if she does use (which could effect her being able to get help).
She's been honest with you - my input would be either pick her as a partner or walk away. But if that's your boudary and she fully accepts it and wants that life I would wish you the very best.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Originally Posted by Jessika
Once an addict always an addict let me tell you that she'll never be cured if she even goes to meetings she probably won't even listen and did you know all these addicts are hopeless a cancer on humanity
id dump her
*- jessi -*
id dump her
*- jessi -* Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sussex, NJ
Posts: 1,331
She then told me about a terrible tragedy in her life, which culminated in her becoming addicted to cocaine. Everyone has a different story, but her tragedy was so bad that an addiction was almost inevitable, in my opinion.
I have a bad tragedy too in my life and I'm not addicted to anything. We all choose the way in which we will deal with a tragedy in our lives. No one's tragedies are worse than someone elses.
Sorry ..... this whole thing just smells to high heaven, at least for me.
Acting not reacting
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My happy place
Posts: 1,788
Hi MSGUY,
Sounds like you are on the right track as far as your plan and boundaries go. I would envourage you to get some support material via NarAnon and this board. Its important to remember that we all should say what we mean and mean what we say. If you are not certain you would end the relationship after another relapse, I would say just leave that out. But if you are certain, than by all means...
Addicts and alcoholics are people and not cancers. I find it appauling Jeesi that you are in the "Friends and Family" section and can make a comment like that. Perhaps you could save your negativity for another forum
Sounds like you are on the right track as far as your plan and boundaries go. I would envourage you to get some support material via NarAnon and this board. Its important to remember that we all should say what we mean and mean what we say. If you are not certain you would end the relationship after another relapse, I would say just leave that out. But if you are certain, than by all means...
Addicts and alcoholics are people and not cancers. I find it appauling Jeesi that you are in the "Friends and Family" section and can make a comment like that. Perhaps you could save your negativity for another forum
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 19
Clarify
Originally Posted by equus
I read this post and wanted time to think. What I'm trying to imagine is that if all goes well and you chose to plan a life with her it sounded as though you meant with a committment? So what form would it take? 'I love you, will you marry me but remember if you lapse again I'm gone'? I want to stay with you my whole life unless you take cocaine.'? What if she lapsed again but went straight for help?
Good point. This whole thing has me really upset, and I am starting to doubt myself. I think I need to just step back and think about it.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 19
OK Equus
I read this passage from the other thread:
"Before I married I knew more than most about alcohol problems, not from my family but growing up in an inner city boarding house I'd seen it right to the point of men drinking meths (blue cleaning stuff!). I asked myself if he had a brain tumour that might recurr would Imarry him? The answer was yes! I asked myself if he had alzhiemers would I marry him? The answer was yes! Not because I thought those would be easy to deal with, more that I knew dealing with that sort of stuff was beyond my comprehension at that time (as was first hand dealing with alcoholism), but I did know where my heart was, I did know that unlike 80% of the population if I was to marry and mean it then it had to be accepting this part of him as well. Like I said I had an advantage (or two of them!), I knew from the outset, I'd seen enough as a kid to have no illusions. I've needed help through it and when I have I've sought it out and got it (for the most part).
And now? Since we married he's had full relapses, lapses, ups and downs - would I still make the same decision? YES!! But that's because of who he is as an individual not because I feel some obligation to live with addiction - I really don't think I could live with anyone else's!!
I suppose we make choices, and when it comes to partners I think it's better to make choices on the whole person, as they are, standing in their underpants, for all that's contained by their skin and bones, who they are, how they have lived, how they have taken lifes knocks. I'm glad D's drinking made sure I did that consciously and deliberately, it's stood us in good stead."
That is AMAZING stuff. It brought tears to my eyes-literally!!
Thank you so much-that was what I needed to hear, just when I needed to hear it. I will keep my eyes open, but I am not throwing in the towel.
"Before I married I knew more than most about alcohol problems, not from my family but growing up in an inner city boarding house I'd seen it right to the point of men drinking meths (blue cleaning stuff!). I asked myself if he had a brain tumour that might recurr would Imarry him? The answer was yes! I asked myself if he had alzhiemers would I marry him? The answer was yes! Not because I thought those would be easy to deal with, more that I knew dealing with that sort of stuff was beyond my comprehension at that time (as was first hand dealing with alcoholism), but I did know where my heart was, I did know that unlike 80% of the population if I was to marry and mean it then it had to be accepting this part of him as well. Like I said I had an advantage (or two of them!), I knew from the outset, I'd seen enough as a kid to have no illusions. I've needed help through it and when I have I've sought it out and got it (for the most part).
And now? Since we married he's had full relapses, lapses, ups and downs - would I still make the same decision? YES!! But that's because of who he is as an individual not because I feel some obligation to live with addiction - I really don't think I could live with anyone else's!!
I suppose we make choices, and when it comes to partners I think it's better to make choices on the whole person, as they are, standing in their underpants, for all that's contained by their skin and bones, who they are, how they have lived, how they have taken lifes knocks. I'm glad D's drinking made sure I did that consciously and deliberately, it's stood us in good stead."
That is AMAZING stuff. It brought tears to my eyes-literally!!
Thank you so much-that was what I needed to hear, just when I needed to hear it. I will keep my eyes open, but I am not throwing in the towel.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sussex, NJ
Posts: 1,331
Living with an addict is not fun and it takes a special love and commitment to work togegther through the ups and downs. If you are not ready to deal with them, then you are not ready for this relationship.
If I were you, I'd get yourself to Al Anon meetings to prepare yourself for the inevitable, because they will come and you will need to be prepared to practice "tough love".
D's story is a phenomenal story, one of heartbreak and joy. D's only problem as I understand is not only drinking, but there are other issues involved here also.
If I were you, I'd get yourself to Al Anon meetings to prepare yourself for the inevitable, because they will come and you will need to be prepared to practice "tough love".
D's story is a phenomenal story, one of heartbreak and joy. D's only problem as I understand is not only drinking, but there are other issues involved here also.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Judy I would say all our stories are individual and co-morbidity isn't exactly rare either.
The point is not really just one of addiction (as I see it), what I wrote above I might not have thought to do if it wasn't for addiction but I'm glad I did because whoever we pick we should be picking all that we know of them, as a whole, complete human being. If that can't be done, maybe I'm cautious but I wouldn't commit.
It's true D deals with more than alcohol problems, but I promise, cross my heart the rest is as hard if not harder in it's own way and the combination a doozey!!
I agree with having boundaries, and with sticking to them but where you know a person is dealing with something I think maybe the decision whether we believe we could or not needs to be made before, rather than having the whole relationship begin with 'if'.
I don't think I could just stay and watch if D gave up, if he just decided to let it happen and not try, if he wanted it to kill him like he did a decade ago. I didn't know that at the outset, some things we don't know and that's different. It's not a boundary but I have told him I don't know if I could cope and that I wouldn't let myself go under trying. He was glad. But he's never even looked to give up these days!! In fact the silly sod gets in more bother trying to sort it all out!!
The point is not really just one of addiction (as I see it), what I wrote above I might not have thought to do if it wasn't for addiction but I'm glad I did because whoever we pick we should be picking all that we know of them, as a whole, complete human being. If that can't be done, maybe I'm cautious but I wouldn't commit.
It's true D deals with more than alcohol problems, but I promise, cross my heart the rest is as hard if not harder in it's own way and the combination a doozey!!
I agree with having boundaries, and with sticking to them but where you know a person is dealing with something I think maybe the decision whether we believe we could or not needs to be made before, rather than having the whole relationship begin with 'if'.
I don't think I could just stay and watch if D gave up, if he just decided to let it happen and not try, if he wanted it to kill him like he did a decade ago. I didn't know that at the outset, some things we don't know and that's different. It's not a boundary but I have told him I don't know if I could cope and that I wouldn't let myself go under trying. He was glad. But he's never even looked to give up these days!! In fact the silly sod gets in more bother trying to sort it all out!!
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Welcome, Msguy, you've found a great place here. I want to mention something in your post as it triggered something in me about my own situation. If this doesn't apply, then just leave it.
When I met my ex, R, it got very intense, very quickly. I too thought I had met my "soulmate". Like you, I had never felt this way about anybody and he said the same. I ignored the fact that he obviously had a drink problem as I thought that I could probably fix him, but that's another story. Almost 2 years later we got engaged and the real nightmare began. Over time it became to clear to me that the man I had fallen in love with didn't exist. It was a total facade created to get my hooked into rescuing and enabling. He became intensely manipulative - I can't actually even begin to describe what I have lived through in the past 2 years as I really don't know what is and what isn't reality. Falling fast and hard may be great in the movies, but I have now learned to be cautious and to pay big attention to the red flags.
It's funny how many people I read on these boards who relapse when they are coming close to a year clean. It is such a trigger point and one of the reasons why Fellowships like AA and NA recommend that you have no major changes for a year - and that includes getting into new relationships.
Tread carefully, hon, and at least go to Nar-anon or al-anon meetings. Go by actions and not words - equus is right - there is a whole world of difference between being in a relationship with someone who is making an effort and someone who isn't.
When I met my ex, R, it got very intense, very quickly. I too thought I had met my "soulmate". Like you, I had never felt this way about anybody and he said the same. I ignored the fact that he obviously had a drink problem as I thought that I could probably fix him, but that's another story. Almost 2 years later we got engaged and the real nightmare began. Over time it became to clear to me that the man I had fallen in love with didn't exist. It was a total facade created to get my hooked into rescuing and enabling. He became intensely manipulative - I can't actually even begin to describe what I have lived through in the past 2 years as I really don't know what is and what isn't reality. Falling fast and hard may be great in the movies, but I have now learned to be cautious and to pay big attention to the red flags.
It's funny how many people I read on these boards who relapse when they are coming close to a year clean. It is such a trigger point and one of the reasons why Fellowships like AA and NA recommend that you have no major changes for a year - and that includes getting into new relationships.
Tread carefully, hon, and at least go to Nar-anon or al-anon meetings. Go by actions and not words - equus is right - there is a whole world of difference between being in a relationship with someone who is making an effort and someone who isn't.
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sussex, NJ
Posts: 1,331
I understand equus, I really do. The story of you and D is unique and different and a success. You and D are also married, you are committed to each other. Not so with this poster.
I do not romanticize addiction as I see it done here time and time again (not you equus). It's horrid, it's a horrendous way to live, it hurts, it steals, it lies it's unfathomable to most people.
If I were to split with my husband, I would never ever get involved with an addict of any sort, no matter how much I loved them or thought they were my soulmate. Been there done that! It's exhausting.
I do not romanticize addiction as I see it done here time and time again (not you equus). It's horrid, it's a horrendous way to live, it hurts, it steals, it lies it's unfathomable to most people.
If I were to split with my husband, I would never ever get involved with an addict of any sort, no matter how much I loved them or thought they were my soulmate. Been there done that! It's exhausting.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
If I were to split with my husband, I would never ever get involved with an addict of any sort, no matter how much I loved them or thought they were my soulmate. Been there done that! It's exhausting.
whoever we pick we should be picking all that we know of them, as a whole, complete human being. If that can't be done, maybe I'm cautious but I wouldn't commit.
the whole person, as they are, standing in their underpants, for all that's contained by their skin and bones, who they are, how they have lived, how they have taken lifes knocks.
Ok - I admit it's pretty unique!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 19
Follow Up
Thanks everyone for the input. One thing is for sure-I am proceeding slowly. I am not in any big rush-don't need to be.
We have been having some very frank and honest discussions, and she is being open and honest about her situation. I can be a skeptic when I need to be, but I don't see any signs of her being anything but truthful. And she is genuinely frightened about the possibility of going back to where she was. So I take all of that as a good sign. But I am going in with the blinders off.
Some folks here tell me I am crazy to get hooked up with an addict. Maybe I am. But for all her faults (and I have them too), she has a quality that I can't describe accurately, but that is very appealing.
I am always open to suggestion, so any input is always welcome.
We have been having some very frank and honest discussions, and she is being open and honest about her situation. I can be a skeptic when I need to be, but I don't see any signs of her being anything but truthful. And she is genuinely frightened about the possibility of going back to where she was. So I take all of that as a good sign. But I am going in with the blinders off.
Some folks here tell me I am crazy to get hooked up with an addict. Maybe I am. But for all her faults (and I have them too), she has a quality that I can't describe accurately, but that is very appealing.
I am always open to suggestion, so any input is always welcome.
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