Why some people stay
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Why some people stay
Why People Remain in Abusive Alcoholic Relationships
The Stockholm Syndrome
By Doug Kelley, CH, CSL
July 2002
“Alcoholics don’t take spouses—they take hostages.”
—Diane P. at an Al-Anon meeting
Those who have never experienced the turmoil of an abusive relationship find it difficult to understand why people remain. They often ask, “Why in the world don’t they just leave?” The reasons “they just don’t leave” are varied and are at times quite complicated. Psychological dynamics are at work in such relationships that are every bit as confining as prison walls. On the other hand, quite often these dynamics only give the illusion of prison walls.
Is there a way to better understand these dynamics in an effort to resolve them? Yes.
In 1973, two men held four people hostage for six days in a bank holdup in Stockholm, Sweden. The hostages and their captors bonded with each other, and the hostages actually came to see their captors as protecting them from the police. One reportedly even became engaged to one of the captors after the fact. Out of this incident, the Stockholm Syndrome was developed to explain the psychological phenomenon that occurs when hostages bond with their captors and resist outside efforts to rescue them.
When applied to abusive alcoholic relationships, this psychological phenomenon gives great insight into why people (especially women) remain in such relationships. Although various renderings exist, the following describes the conditions necessary for the Stockholm Syndrome to develop. One can even see its relevance in alcoholic relationships that are not intensively abusive. Incidentally, both men and women can find themselves in the hostage role, but women are primarily affected.
Threat. A perceived threat to survival must exist, and also a belief that the captor is willing to carry out that threat. In an abusive alcoholic relationship, a “perceived threat to survival” does not necessarily have to mean the threat of physical murder, although at times it does. More often than not, this threat to survival involves the loss of something considered to be of high value, such as the loss of custody of any children involved; financial loss, including the home and means of living; loss of reputation within an extended family, in the community, or religiously; loss of companionship; loss of family integrity; etc.
Isolation. Isolation from perspectives other than those of the captor. Control of mundane daily activities is the norm, such as discouraging or not allowing the hostage to work outside the home; monitoring all expenditures; making demands such as “dinner on time,” and insistence on things being done to the captor’s specifications; extreme jealousy, e.g., monitoring where the hostage goes, checking mileage on the car, or not allowing the hostage to talk to anyone outside the home per se; keeping the hostage “dumb and stupid” by not allowing her to acquire or maintain marketable skills; etc. All of these demands force a distorted nurturing dependence on the captor, which is exactly the control that he aberrantly desires. The hostage, in turn, begins to see the world—and herself—through his eyes.
Kindness. A perception of some small kindness from the captor within the context of abuse. The captor will occasionally bestow some small kindness on the hostage, such as flowers after he beats her, or tearful remorse for his verbal, emotional, or physical abuse, then being easy to get along with for a time (the “honeymoon” phase), and showing his “good side” thereby lulling the hostage into the false hope that he has “finally changed.” But lo, this is just part of the syndrome. Without help, he will drink again (the “tension building” phase); he will verbally, emotionally, or physically beat her again (“acute battering incident”), and the cycle starts all over again.
Escape. A perceived inability to escape. The hostage has a profound and most often perceived inability to escape the relationship without serious “life or death” consequences (the loss of something of high value). If she does try to escape, she may lose her “life,” i.e., her children, her home and means of support, her reputation, or a host of other things. This perception of no escape is usually nothing more than a disabling belief that is as psychologically restraining as physical shackles anchoring her to a concrete wall.
The above criteria then lead the hostage to:
Affinity. Positive feelings between captor and hostage. A distorted and dysfunctional reciprocal affinity or bonding then develops between the captor and the hostage. The captor needs the hostage to satisfy distorted control issues; and the hostage needs the captor for survival. Therefore, when the captor occasionally bestows a kindness toward her in an effort to maintain control, she ignores his bad side and bonds to his positive side in an effort to maintain her psychological survival. Happy that her survival is momentarily unthreatened, the hostage now works even harder to keep her captor happy. This, in turn, reinforces her codependence. In time, the hostage begins to reciprocate her captor’s active aggressive control tactics with her own passive aggressive control tactics. Her often-subtle techniques are designed to control when or if she gets punished by her captor (being a peacekeeper); when and how much he drinks; preserving the family image (family secret); etc. Now focused on survival by keeping her captor “happy,” her own emotional needs go unfulfilled, and her feelings and perspectives take second place to those of her captor.
Fear. Fear that any intervention by outside authorities will jeopardize the hostage’s survival. The hostage fears that if the “authorities” (anyone outside trying to help) get involved with trying to “rescue” her, then she will get “killed” in the crossfire (lose something of high value). The hostage usually sees any and all efforts to help her as a threat to her survival. Having already adopted her captor’s worldview, she then takes sides with her captor against any emancipating authority. This often results in further isolation because any friendships the hostage has may eventually collapse under the heavy burden of her emotionally taxing and dysfunctional situation. In essence, the captor has effectively and systematically erased any friendships she once had.
Captor’s motto: Control.
Hostage’s motto: Survival.
So, why don’t many non-alcoholics leave even when they have an easy opportunity to do so? Because, 1) Her and her children’s own perceived survival (or something of high value) is at risk, and 2) Having now adopted her captor’s perspectives and therefore seeing the world through his eyes, she simply sees no reason to leave.
For all intents and purposes, the hostage is no longer a unique individual, but rather a clone of her captor. He has dispossessed her of her self-determination, self-identity, and self-worth. Her captor has made any possibility of her leaving him exponentially more difficult through psychological manipulation—brainwashing.
A good way to remember the above conditions of the Stockholm Syndrome is to rearrange them to spell the acronym, “FAKE IT.
F—Fear
A—Affinity
K—Kindness
E—Escape
I—Isolation
T—Threat
This is entirely fitting because whenever you exist in either role of captor or hostage, you are “faking it.” You are living a “false” life. Some further synonyms of the word “fake” that give different shades of meaning to an abusive alcoholic relationship are: bogus, counterfeit, deceptive, fabricated, fraudulent, imitation, make-believe, phony, pretentious, scam, swindle, and trick. It is obvious that such a false relationship cannot bring peace and happiness to the family, and if not corrected, the misery continues.
Over the course of an extended period of time (perhaps years) in an alcoholic relationship, a very interesting phenomenon can occur: Role Reversal. After gaining expertise and confidence in her ability to passively control her captor (the alcoholic), the hostage (non-alcoholic) may now begin to actively, but unconsciously, push the limits of her captor’s control. This is in an attempt to recapture her stolen power and control. Incidentally, this is a prime time for outside “authorities” to help her make her escape. As a result of her assuming broader and more active control, she may launch a coup in an attempt to overthrow and subjugate her captor by seizing active control of the relationship. As a result, tensions escalate and sparks fly as both captor and hostage battle it out for control and victory. At this point, one of two outcomes will most likely happen:
1) The hostage, seeing that her coup attempt has failed or is failing, takes positive action and escapes; or,
2) Complete Role Reversal occurs: the hostage now becomes the captor, and the captor the hostage. Now the whole cycle starts all over, but this time in a unique way. The captor and hostage are now likely up in years, having possibly spent decades together. Because both of them are so comfortable in their distorted and dysfunctional relationship, they take turns at playing the roles of captor and hostage. This results in “bad blood” between them; each one is now alternately on the giving and the receiving end of verbal, emotional, and even physical abuse. They live out their days, feeling all used up, knowing on some deeper level that they sacrificed all those precious years of potential accomplishment by remaining in a pointless and miserable relationship that consumed their souls and extinguished their spirits.
Facing Your Fears: Beliefs that Keep the Hostage Enslaved
Beliefs are interesting to explore. The dictionary defines “belief” as “something regarded as true.” [1] In other words, a belief is something you don’t know. It may or may not be true in reality.
Few other characteristics exert more power and influence over human beings than beliefs. Beliefs are so powerful in fact, that if you believe something to be true, then it is true for you. Your belief is your reality.
Beliefs are like a double-edged sword—they can help you or hinder you; they can be liberating or enslaving; they can enrich you or rob you of your power. If you believe that you are trapped in an abusive alcoholic relationship, then you are—until you change your belief.
Fear is one of the greatest disabling beliefs. Seldom do the fears we harbor within have anything to do with the greater reality. I’ve always liked using the word “fear” as an acronym: F.E.A.R.—False Evidence Appearing Real. As long as we believe our fears are real, they become our reality. And herein lies the problem: our fears are usually nothing more than misguided and illusory beliefs (false evidence) that disable us from doing what we know we should do. By holding on to unreasonable fears associated with a codependent-alcoholic relationship, not only do you disable your own life, but your children’s lives as well (see the chart, Generational Track Lines of Alcoholic Relationships).
Following are some oft-cited reasons why non-alcoholics remain in an alcoholic relationship. These reasons fit the hostage’s perception of survival—something of high value. In most cases, these seemingly valid reasons are merely False Evidence Appearing Real.
* Financial Fears
* Fear for Personal and Family Safety
* The "I Can Fix It" Mindset
* "For the Children" / Keeping the Family Together
* Fear of Loneliness / Loss of Companionship
* Stigma / Embarrassment / Shame
* Assuming Responsibility for the Alcoholic's Behavior
* Personal Values / Religious Beliefs
The Stockholm Syndrome
By Doug Kelley, CH, CSL
July 2002
“Alcoholics don’t take spouses—they take hostages.”
—Diane P. at an Al-Anon meeting
Those who have never experienced the turmoil of an abusive relationship find it difficult to understand why people remain. They often ask, “Why in the world don’t they just leave?” The reasons “they just don’t leave” are varied and are at times quite complicated. Psychological dynamics are at work in such relationships that are every bit as confining as prison walls. On the other hand, quite often these dynamics only give the illusion of prison walls.
Is there a way to better understand these dynamics in an effort to resolve them? Yes.
In 1973, two men held four people hostage for six days in a bank holdup in Stockholm, Sweden. The hostages and their captors bonded with each other, and the hostages actually came to see their captors as protecting them from the police. One reportedly even became engaged to one of the captors after the fact. Out of this incident, the Stockholm Syndrome was developed to explain the psychological phenomenon that occurs when hostages bond with their captors and resist outside efforts to rescue them.
When applied to abusive alcoholic relationships, this psychological phenomenon gives great insight into why people (especially women) remain in such relationships. Although various renderings exist, the following describes the conditions necessary for the Stockholm Syndrome to develop. One can even see its relevance in alcoholic relationships that are not intensively abusive. Incidentally, both men and women can find themselves in the hostage role, but women are primarily affected.
Threat. A perceived threat to survival must exist, and also a belief that the captor is willing to carry out that threat. In an abusive alcoholic relationship, a “perceived threat to survival” does not necessarily have to mean the threat of physical murder, although at times it does. More often than not, this threat to survival involves the loss of something considered to be of high value, such as the loss of custody of any children involved; financial loss, including the home and means of living; loss of reputation within an extended family, in the community, or religiously; loss of companionship; loss of family integrity; etc.
Isolation. Isolation from perspectives other than those of the captor. Control of mundane daily activities is the norm, such as discouraging or not allowing the hostage to work outside the home; monitoring all expenditures; making demands such as “dinner on time,” and insistence on things being done to the captor’s specifications; extreme jealousy, e.g., monitoring where the hostage goes, checking mileage on the car, or not allowing the hostage to talk to anyone outside the home per se; keeping the hostage “dumb and stupid” by not allowing her to acquire or maintain marketable skills; etc. All of these demands force a distorted nurturing dependence on the captor, which is exactly the control that he aberrantly desires. The hostage, in turn, begins to see the world—and herself—through his eyes.
Kindness. A perception of some small kindness from the captor within the context of abuse. The captor will occasionally bestow some small kindness on the hostage, such as flowers after he beats her, or tearful remorse for his verbal, emotional, or physical abuse, then being easy to get along with for a time (the “honeymoon” phase), and showing his “good side” thereby lulling the hostage into the false hope that he has “finally changed.” But lo, this is just part of the syndrome. Without help, he will drink again (the “tension building” phase); he will verbally, emotionally, or physically beat her again (“acute battering incident”), and the cycle starts all over again.
Escape. A perceived inability to escape. The hostage has a profound and most often perceived inability to escape the relationship without serious “life or death” consequences (the loss of something of high value). If she does try to escape, she may lose her “life,” i.e., her children, her home and means of support, her reputation, or a host of other things. This perception of no escape is usually nothing more than a disabling belief that is as psychologically restraining as physical shackles anchoring her to a concrete wall.
The above criteria then lead the hostage to:
Affinity. Positive feelings between captor and hostage. A distorted and dysfunctional reciprocal affinity or bonding then develops between the captor and the hostage. The captor needs the hostage to satisfy distorted control issues; and the hostage needs the captor for survival. Therefore, when the captor occasionally bestows a kindness toward her in an effort to maintain control, she ignores his bad side and bonds to his positive side in an effort to maintain her psychological survival. Happy that her survival is momentarily unthreatened, the hostage now works even harder to keep her captor happy. This, in turn, reinforces her codependence. In time, the hostage begins to reciprocate her captor’s active aggressive control tactics with her own passive aggressive control tactics. Her often-subtle techniques are designed to control when or if she gets punished by her captor (being a peacekeeper); when and how much he drinks; preserving the family image (family secret); etc. Now focused on survival by keeping her captor “happy,” her own emotional needs go unfulfilled, and her feelings and perspectives take second place to those of her captor.
Fear. Fear that any intervention by outside authorities will jeopardize the hostage’s survival. The hostage fears that if the “authorities” (anyone outside trying to help) get involved with trying to “rescue” her, then she will get “killed” in the crossfire (lose something of high value). The hostage usually sees any and all efforts to help her as a threat to her survival. Having already adopted her captor’s worldview, she then takes sides with her captor against any emancipating authority. This often results in further isolation because any friendships the hostage has may eventually collapse under the heavy burden of her emotionally taxing and dysfunctional situation. In essence, the captor has effectively and systematically erased any friendships she once had.
Captor’s motto: Control.
Hostage’s motto: Survival.
So, why don’t many non-alcoholics leave even when they have an easy opportunity to do so? Because, 1) Her and her children’s own perceived survival (or something of high value) is at risk, and 2) Having now adopted her captor’s perspectives and therefore seeing the world through his eyes, she simply sees no reason to leave.
For all intents and purposes, the hostage is no longer a unique individual, but rather a clone of her captor. He has dispossessed her of her self-determination, self-identity, and self-worth. Her captor has made any possibility of her leaving him exponentially more difficult through psychological manipulation—brainwashing.
A good way to remember the above conditions of the Stockholm Syndrome is to rearrange them to spell the acronym, “FAKE IT.
F—Fear
A—Affinity
K—Kindness
E—Escape
I—Isolation
T—Threat
This is entirely fitting because whenever you exist in either role of captor or hostage, you are “faking it.” You are living a “false” life. Some further synonyms of the word “fake” that give different shades of meaning to an abusive alcoholic relationship are: bogus, counterfeit, deceptive, fabricated, fraudulent, imitation, make-believe, phony, pretentious, scam, swindle, and trick. It is obvious that such a false relationship cannot bring peace and happiness to the family, and if not corrected, the misery continues.
Over the course of an extended period of time (perhaps years) in an alcoholic relationship, a very interesting phenomenon can occur: Role Reversal. After gaining expertise and confidence in her ability to passively control her captor (the alcoholic), the hostage (non-alcoholic) may now begin to actively, but unconsciously, push the limits of her captor’s control. This is in an attempt to recapture her stolen power and control. Incidentally, this is a prime time for outside “authorities” to help her make her escape. As a result of her assuming broader and more active control, she may launch a coup in an attempt to overthrow and subjugate her captor by seizing active control of the relationship. As a result, tensions escalate and sparks fly as both captor and hostage battle it out for control and victory. At this point, one of two outcomes will most likely happen:
1) The hostage, seeing that her coup attempt has failed or is failing, takes positive action and escapes; or,
2) Complete Role Reversal occurs: the hostage now becomes the captor, and the captor the hostage. Now the whole cycle starts all over, but this time in a unique way. The captor and hostage are now likely up in years, having possibly spent decades together. Because both of them are so comfortable in their distorted and dysfunctional relationship, they take turns at playing the roles of captor and hostage. This results in “bad blood” between them; each one is now alternately on the giving and the receiving end of verbal, emotional, and even physical abuse. They live out their days, feeling all used up, knowing on some deeper level that they sacrificed all those precious years of potential accomplishment by remaining in a pointless and miserable relationship that consumed their souls and extinguished their spirits.
Facing Your Fears: Beliefs that Keep the Hostage Enslaved
Beliefs are interesting to explore. The dictionary defines “belief” as “something regarded as true.” [1] In other words, a belief is something you don’t know. It may or may not be true in reality.
Few other characteristics exert more power and influence over human beings than beliefs. Beliefs are so powerful in fact, that if you believe something to be true, then it is true for you. Your belief is your reality.
Beliefs are like a double-edged sword—they can help you or hinder you; they can be liberating or enslaving; they can enrich you or rob you of your power. If you believe that you are trapped in an abusive alcoholic relationship, then you are—until you change your belief.
Fear is one of the greatest disabling beliefs. Seldom do the fears we harbor within have anything to do with the greater reality. I’ve always liked using the word “fear” as an acronym: F.E.A.R.—False Evidence Appearing Real. As long as we believe our fears are real, they become our reality. And herein lies the problem: our fears are usually nothing more than misguided and illusory beliefs (false evidence) that disable us from doing what we know we should do. By holding on to unreasonable fears associated with a codependent-alcoholic relationship, not only do you disable your own life, but your children’s lives as well (see the chart, Generational Track Lines of Alcoholic Relationships).
Following are some oft-cited reasons why non-alcoholics remain in an alcoholic relationship. These reasons fit the hostage’s perception of survival—something of high value. In most cases, these seemingly valid reasons are merely False Evidence Appearing Real.
* Financial Fears
* Fear for Personal and Family Safety
* The "I Can Fix It" Mindset
* "For the Children" / Keeping the Family Together
* Fear of Loneliness / Loss of Companionship
* Stigma / Embarrassment / Shame
* Assuming Responsibility for the Alcoholic's Behavior
* Personal Values / Religious Beliefs
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,812
(((((Dakoda ))))
Post till your heart is peaceful.
I for one appreciate hearing about this, and sometimes I have wondered if there are REALLY SICK people that come to sights like this to stalk women that are struggling.
You know it would be fairly easy for a sicko to find women in a form like this and use it to manuver into their lives. Kinda like the guys that go to AA and hit on the new women who are sick and in early recovery.... (women too)
Anyway I think it is something worth taking a look at.
Post till your heart is peaceful.
I for one appreciate hearing about this, and sometimes I have wondered if there are REALLY SICK people that come to sights like this to stalk women that are struggling.
You know it would be fairly easy for a sicko to find women in a form like this and use it to manuver into their lives. Kinda like the guys that go to AA and hit on the new women who are sick and in early recovery.... (women too)
Anyway I think it is something worth taking a look at.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: la la land
Posts: 196
And they wonder why an abusive woman "wakes up" one day and just gets it and shoots the man?? IT was exhausting reading it, let alone living it. (just all the symptoms, not about you posting it.muah)
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
If I may add my .02, the "Stockholm Syndrome" is a very powerful force in the lives of many abused spouses. Now imagine what it must be like for a _child_ who is held hostage by abusive adults. As mind-twisting and soul-searing as it is for an adult who _knows_ there are other ways to live, imagine a child who has _never_ even imagined another way to live.
Mike
Mike
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: walking beside you! Not in front of you.
Posts: 658
(((Dakoda))))
Go on posting for as long as you can.
This information NEEDS to be shared not only for the person in the situation but for children young and old to know.
I grew up in a violent family. I learned very young how to disappear into the wood work. I carry the emotional scares to this day, even though I know in my head all the facts, keeping that information in my heart is a harder job. I didn't learn I had choices until I was 45. I know today after working the 12 steps of Al-Anon, Keeping the secrets keep us sick.
Only when we can all share our experience, strength and HOPE will society as a whole become aware enough to begin to heal.
Love and prayers to all.
Go on posting for as long as you can.
This information NEEDS to be shared not only for the person in the situation but for children young and old to know.
I grew up in a violent family. I learned very young how to disappear into the wood work. I carry the emotional scares to this day, even though I know in my head all the facts, keeping that information in my heart is a harder job. I didn't learn I had choices until I was 45. I know today after working the 12 steps of Al-Anon, Keeping the secrets keep us sick.
Only when we can all share our experience, strength and HOPE will society as a whole become aware enough to begin to heal.
Love and prayers to all.
Beyond the Ninth Wave
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 107
This is bringing back some very dark times for me - which isn't a reason not to go there, I just get confused when I start reacting to something like this as if it wasn't years past. I guess that's an ACOA reaction/symptom?
I stayed with my abusive alcoholic ex (my one & only, thank goodness) because I was terrified of her, because I'd watched helplessly as she made good her threats to do harm to others, so I knew she was capable of doing the same to me & because, God help me, I loved her. Guess what? 11 years after the nightmare ended, I still do.
I think I'm going to have to take this thread a very little at a time. If I think about this too much I start feeling like all the healing I thought I'd attained is self-deception because all the emotions of that time take the forefront. I still struggle with the concept that a feeling is just a feeling. But I know I'm not yet healed from that chapter of my life.
I can't even put together 2 coherent sentences about this subject.
I heard something from a therapist which pretty much saved my sanity right after I escaped from her. I said something utterly stupid like, "Well, when she's sober she's so good & loving to me. It's just when she's drunk that she's mean." My therapist said that if K were to get recovery tomorrow she'd also have to get help for being an abuser - that she didn't hit me because she was drunk, she hit me because she was an abuser. How obvious, yet I'd never made the connection. Of course I never made the connection that she was drunk 99% of the time, so her times of being good to me were few & far between.
The kindness aspect that Minnie listed...yes, she could be very kind to me & I was so touched when she was because of the contrast in her usual behaviors. What a schmuck I was about that woman.
I stayed with my abusive alcoholic ex (my one & only, thank goodness) because I was terrified of her, because I'd watched helplessly as she made good her threats to do harm to others, so I knew she was capable of doing the same to me & because, God help me, I loved her. Guess what? 11 years after the nightmare ended, I still do.
I think I'm going to have to take this thread a very little at a time. If I think about this too much I start feeling like all the healing I thought I'd attained is self-deception because all the emotions of that time take the forefront. I still struggle with the concept that a feeling is just a feeling. But I know I'm not yet healed from that chapter of my life.
I can't even put together 2 coherent sentences about this subject.
I heard something from a therapist which pretty much saved my sanity right after I escaped from her. I said something utterly stupid like, "Well, when she's sober she's so good & loving to me. It's just when she's drunk that she's mean." My therapist said that if K were to get recovery tomorrow she'd also have to get help for being an abuser - that she didn't hit me because she was drunk, she hit me because she was an abuser. How obvious, yet I'd never made the connection. Of course I never made the connection that she was drunk 99% of the time, so her times of being good to me were few & far between.
The kindness aspect that Minnie listed...yes, she could be very kind to me & I was so touched when she was because of the contrast in her usual behaviors. What a schmuck I was about that woman.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by Dakoda
... I know that I bring up the violence issue a lot here. I've tried seeking other forums like this on line. Unfortunately there are really SICK individuals...
Originally Posted by Dakoda
...(I hate using that word victim)...
Mike
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by yvonne
...Isn't that strange, to let someone be mean and degrade yu so you won't have to be alone ? ...
Mike :-)
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Originally Posted by elizabeth1979
...This kind of thing makse me want to do whatever is necessary to be healthy so I dont act this out on my children...
Mike :-)
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Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by Neasa
Originally Posted by Neasa
... I still struggle with the concept that a feeling is just a feeling...
Originally Posted by Neasa
... I said something utterly stupid like,...
Mike :-)
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 928
[QUOTE=DesertEyes}Now imagine what it must be like for a _child_ who is held hostage by abusive adults. As mind-twisting and soul-searing as it is for an adult who _knows_ there are other ways to live, imagine a child who has _never_ even imagined another way to live.[/QUOTE]
I honestly thank god that I recognized that this environment (which I grew up in) was not a healthy one..and I started getting help in my teens, first therapy, self-help books and most recently Alanon. (I'm 36 now).. my other two siblings were also affected..my brother committed suicide 6 years ago and my sister...well I worry about her..think she's in denial..or maybe because she was younger by 4 years..she was more sheltered..
My father (not an alcoholic but his mom was) and my mother (not an alcoholic that I know of but her father was) pretty much raised us in an evironment of fear and chaos..I grew up thinking that my father was going to kill my mother or my mother was going to kill my father..You get the idea..police coming to the house etc..Can't remember how many times I saw violence - but once was more then enough..luckily neither parent ended up dead or in a hospital..
My father (god bless him) got recovery from his demons and we have a relationship today..He is not violent or angry or aggressive anymore. I guess 30+ years of therapy will do that..He is still in sort of denial but that's ok..we have a good relationship today, I've forgiven him and I love him..
My mother and I have no relationship..It's been 10 years..she is still angry bitter and I've been trying through Alanon to start a relationship with her..I send her a card every month..of course no reply..
Anyway, this post touched a nerve..because I went on to date abusive men (more then one)..Only one touched me - grabbed my arm when he was drunk in a blackout..(yes he was abusive and an alcoholic)..
I don't think any shape or form of violence is funny..men who joke about hitting women - I put them in place by telling them how I grew up..that usually shuts them up!
Anyway, I'm proof that you can change yourself and change your patterns..I am not attracted to sick men anymore..my last exabf was exactly that..my last abuser..
-Minx
I honestly thank god that I recognized that this environment (which I grew up in) was not a healthy one..and I started getting help in my teens, first therapy, self-help books and most recently Alanon. (I'm 36 now).. my other two siblings were also affected..my brother committed suicide 6 years ago and my sister...well I worry about her..think she's in denial..or maybe because she was younger by 4 years..she was more sheltered..
My father (not an alcoholic but his mom was) and my mother (not an alcoholic that I know of but her father was) pretty much raised us in an evironment of fear and chaos..I grew up thinking that my father was going to kill my mother or my mother was going to kill my father..You get the idea..police coming to the house etc..Can't remember how many times I saw violence - but once was more then enough..luckily neither parent ended up dead or in a hospital..
My father (god bless him) got recovery from his demons and we have a relationship today..He is not violent or angry or aggressive anymore. I guess 30+ years of therapy will do that..He is still in sort of denial but that's ok..we have a good relationship today, I've forgiven him and I love him..
My mother and I have no relationship..It's been 10 years..she is still angry bitter and I've been trying through Alanon to start a relationship with her..I send her a card every month..of course no reply..
Anyway, this post touched a nerve..because I went on to date abusive men (more then one)..Only one touched me - grabbed my arm when he was drunk in a blackout..(yes he was abusive and an alcoholic)..
I don't think any shape or form of violence is funny..men who joke about hitting women - I put them in place by telling them how I grew up..that usually shuts them up!
Anyway, I'm proof that you can change yourself and change your patterns..I am not attracted to sick men anymore..my last exabf was exactly that..my last abuser..
-Minx
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by Minx1969
... I honestly thank god that I recognized that this environment (which I grew up in) was not a healthy one..
Originally Posted by Minx1969
....my brother committed suicide 6 years ago and my sister...well I worry about her....
Originally Posted by Minx1969
... My father (god bless him) got recovery from his demons and we have a relationship today....I am not attracted to sick men anymore..
Originally Posted by Minx1969
... I went on to date abusive men ...
Glad you broke the cycle Minx
Mike :-)
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 782
About a month ago, I wrote down a list of the reasons I stay. The very first one that hit me and I wrote down was, "I don't want him to be mad at me." Upon re-reading that a few days later, I couldn't believe that was my first and one of my most important reasons! I know better than that!!! But, alas, it is still one of them...
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
TexasGirl, I can totally relate to that. I've always had this fear of AH hating me. He's always been an "all or nothing" kind of guy and never remained on any type of friendly terms with anyone that passed through his life. When the friendship/relationship/etc. ended - so did everything. Having met and known my Ah since we were 6 years old - well, I just sometimes can't imagine the pain of knowing that he hates me. So I get what you are talking about.
Sometime back, someone posted this link on this website. I saved it to my Favorites and I refer back to it every couple months or so.
http://www.mental-health-matters.com....php?artID=469
Sometime back, someone posted this link on this website. I saved it to my Favorites and I refer back to it every couple months or so.
http://www.mental-health-matters.com....php?artID=469
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: DooDooville, USA
Posts: 453
I lived with an abusive H from age 16 to 24. I went to High School with two black eyes often and lying about how I got them.
I didn't grow up with violence in my home. I grew up with a Dad that was a rage-aholic and emotionally distant. Same type of things that I saw in my ex H. He did grow up in violence and alcoholism. His Dad would drink and beat his Mom up regularly.
I was totally shocked the first time he hit me. I had never been hit like that before. He was capt. of the football team and alot bigger than I was and could knock me acrossed the room with the back of his hand.
He was the type like in the movie "Sleeping with the Enemy". He'd buy my clothes, inspect me before I left the house to make sure I looked perfect on his arm, I had to maintain my 120lbs and be his trophy wife. He'd give me 25 minutes to go to the grocery store and if I was 5 minutes late, I'd get hit because I was "doing the grocery boy".
When he'd leave the house (he worked in the home. Had an office in the basement), he'd pull the plugs on my truck so that I couldn't leave. He beat the crap outta me in front of my supervisor and co-workers one night and they didn't even call 911. Back then, before O J Simpson, people didn't get involved because it was considered a "husband/wife thing".
That night, he knocked me on the ground outside which was a gravel road and drug me by my arm acrossed the parking lot. I had gravel embedded in my arm from my elbow to my shoulder. My shirt was ripped off and my bra, so that my co-workers and supervisor and the world could see.
We lived in North Dakota at that time. 70 degrees below zero one morning....snow up to my knees and we had a fight as usual that morning and I again told him that I wanted to leave. Before, he'd always block the door. This time, he pushed me, dressed in a small nightgown and nothing on my feet..........outside in the freezing snow and locked the door. I was crying and begging him to let me back in. My kids were babies and they were crying inside the house for me to come back in. He left me out there for 20 minutes.
Daily, I got my hair pulled, spit in the face, called every lovely name BUT my first name.....I hated him. I had two small kids and I did NOT want them growing up in a household like that. I had planned for years how to leave.
One day, he made a mistake and left the house without pulling the plugs on my truck. I had saved $. I got the kids (ages 5 and 3 then), their beds, their toys and clothes and put them all in my truck and just the clothes on my back and left. Had no place to go. My family had "disowned" me for leaving home for him at age 16 and I had no friends because ex H didn't "allow" me to have any. BUT, we were free!
I got us a place to live and went back to nursing school. It was tough, but I finally escaped and I no longer considered myself a victim,........but a survivor.
When women (or men) become abused for so long and so emotionally and physically, they often switch from being the victim to the perpetrator. They'll become violent and attack the abuser either to kill or to leave. I didn't have to do that, thank God.
That was 21 years ago that I left. He, just two years ago, admitted that he "hit" me. All these years, he denied it. Denied the emotional abuse and when I started drinking because of the pain....he told everyone that I was just a "Drunk and a psycho". I quit drinking 11 years ago and he's never remarried and still does drugs.
I wouldn't wish that kind of life on any one. But, I made it through it. it was hard and it took it's toll on me and my children. But, we're still here and we've fought our ways back up and never gave up on Hope.
For anybody that may be reading this and is in an abusive situation........don't ever give up on Hope and please know that you're worth more than gold. People love you, God loves you and you don't have to be a victim anymore. YOU can be a survivor.
Thanks, Minnie!
I didn't grow up with violence in my home. I grew up with a Dad that was a rage-aholic and emotionally distant. Same type of things that I saw in my ex H. He did grow up in violence and alcoholism. His Dad would drink and beat his Mom up regularly.
I was totally shocked the first time he hit me. I had never been hit like that before. He was capt. of the football team and alot bigger than I was and could knock me acrossed the room with the back of his hand.
He was the type like in the movie "Sleeping with the Enemy". He'd buy my clothes, inspect me before I left the house to make sure I looked perfect on his arm, I had to maintain my 120lbs and be his trophy wife. He'd give me 25 minutes to go to the grocery store and if I was 5 minutes late, I'd get hit because I was "doing the grocery boy".
When he'd leave the house (he worked in the home. Had an office in the basement), he'd pull the plugs on my truck so that I couldn't leave. He beat the crap outta me in front of my supervisor and co-workers one night and they didn't even call 911. Back then, before O J Simpson, people didn't get involved because it was considered a "husband/wife thing".
That night, he knocked me on the ground outside which was a gravel road and drug me by my arm acrossed the parking lot. I had gravel embedded in my arm from my elbow to my shoulder. My shirt was ripped off and my bra, so that my co-workers and supervisor and the world could see.
We lived in North Dakota at that time. 70 degrees below zero one morning....snow up to my knees and we had a fight as usual that morning and I again told him that I wanted to leave. Before, he'd always block the door. This time, he pushed me, dressed in a small nightgown and nothing on my feet..........outside in the freezing snow and locked the door. I was crying and begging him to let me back in. My kids were babies and they were crying inside the house for me to come back in. He left me out there for 20 minutes.
Daily, I got my hair pulled, spit in the face, called every lovely name BUT my first name.....I hated him. I had two small kids and I did NOT want them growing up in a household like that. I had planned for years how to leave.
One day, he made a mistake and left the house without pulling the plugs on my truck. I had saved $. I got the kids (ages 5 and 3 then), their beds, their toys and clothes and put them all in my truck and just the clothes on my back and left. Had no place to go. My family had "disowned" me for leaving home for him at age 16 and I had no friends because ex H didn't "allow" me to have any. BUT, we were free!
I got us a place to live and went back to nursing school. It was tough, but I finally escaped and I no longer considered myself a victim,........but a survivor.
When women (or men) become abused for so long and so emotionally and physically, they often switch from being the victim to the perpetrator. They'll become violent and attack the abuser either to kill or to leave. I didn't have to do that, thank God.
That was 21 years ago that I left. He, just two years ago, admitted that he "hit" me. All these years, he denied it. Denied the emotional abuse and when I started drinking because of the pain....he told everyone that I was just a "Drunk and a psycho". I quit drinking 11 years ago and he's never remarried and still does drugs.
I wouldn't wish that kind of life on any one. But, I made it through it. it was hard and it took it's toll on me and my children. But, we're still here and we've fought our ways back up and never gave up on Hope.
For anybody that may be reading this and is in an abusive situation........don't ever give up on Hope and please know that you're worth more than gold. People love you, God loves you and you don't have to be a victim anymore. YOU can be a survivor.
Thanks, Minnie!
too much on my plate!!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: not kissing frogs anymore
Posts: 646
Great info minnie! I'm to tired to even think right now, so bare with me if this makes no sense.LOL!
My Dad was very abusive, physically and mentally. I went on to date abusive men; exabf was never abusive, except towards the end. I think I stayed because I loved him, finanical purposes, and because I just thought one day he would be the man he always had the potential to be...so sad that man is gone; what a wonderful person he could be while sober
My Dad was very abusive, physically and mentally. I went on to date abusive men; exabf was never abusive, except towards the end. I think I stayed because I loved him, finanical purposes, and because I just thought one day he would be the man he always had the potential to be...so sad that man is gone; what a wonderful person he could be while sober
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