Rule book acrobatics!!
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Rule book acrobatics!!
BLAH!!! I'm trying to feel for a very fine line to walk on. D wants a few tins with a vid tonight, normally it would be easy - 'It's up to you luv' and then easy to detach because he's making his choice, and he NEEDS to know the results.
At the moment it ain't that easy!! I just talked about it very calmly reminding him he wanted to be careful, etc. He agreed and halved the amount.
I've left the ball in his court, not really tried to stop him - normally I would be fine with that but at the moment it's making me feel really uneasy. He seems alot better in himself but after last weekend and early last week I'm struggling to know what's right or wrong for me to do or not do.
Don't know how much of this will make sense. If you know what I'm talking about (ie what's happened this week) I'd love some input - if not it'll take too long to explain so please don't just judge on what's written in this post.
At the moment it ain't that easy!! I just talked about it very calmly reminding him he wanted to be careful, etc. He agreed and halved the amount.
I've left the ball in his court, not really tried to stop him - normally I would be fine with that but at the moment it's making me feel really uneasy. He seems alot better in himself but after last weekend and early last week I'm struggling to know what's right or wrong for me to do or not do.
Don't know how much of this will make sense. If you know what I'm talking about (ie what's happened this week) I'd love some input - if not it'll take too long to explain so please don't just judge on what's written in this post.
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
I know has been going on this week (with the doc, the bloodwork, the AD, etc)... but I don't understand what you mean by "a few tins with a vid." Something is getting lost in translation... or my head is up my rear-end and I'm just not "getting it!" LOL!!
To me a "tin" is chewing tobacco... but I'm guessing that's not what you are meaning. It must be some form of alcohol, and I'm guessing a vid is a movie/video? Again, not sure.
Either way, given all that you've been through this week, your uneasiness is nothing out of the ordinary. I think it's best left up to D to make his choices. I know there is concern because of the ADs, and his emotional state, but you trying to convince him to not have the tins is not good. That's you trying to control something that's not yours to control. I think D needs to fumble through this one on his own. I like the phrase, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." I heard a recovering A once say, "Yeah, but you sure can make that horse thirsty!!" What I believe he met by it was, you can show the A that they have a problem with drinking (the water), and you can make them "thirsty" by showing them how good sober life can really be... but it's still ultimately up to them to work on sobriety.
Have some faith that whatever is meant to be will happen for D. You did your part by reminding him that HE was the one that wanted to be careful... now let go and let god. Anything more at this point will do you more harm than good.
To me a "tin" is chewing tobacco... but I'm guessing that's not what you are meaning. It must be some form of alcohol, and I'm guessing a vid is a movie/video? Again, not sure.
Either way, given all that you've been through this week, your uneasiness is nothing out of the ordinary. I think it's best left up to D to make his choices. I know there is concern because of the ADs, and his emotional state, but you trying to convince him to not have the tins is not good. That's you trying to control something that's not yours to control. I think D needs to fumble through this one on his own. I like the phrase, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." I heard a recovering A once say, "Yeah, but you sure can make that horse thirsty!!" What I believe he met by it was, you can show the A that they have a problem with drinking (the water), and you can make them "thirsty" by showing them how good sober life can really be... but it's still ultimately up to them to work on sobriety.
Have some faith that whatever is meant to be will happen for D. You did your part by reminding him that HE was the one that wanted to be careful... now let go and let god. Anything more at this point will do you more harm than good.
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
If a "few tins with a vid" means he going to drink I can understand your concern. I doubt it will mix well with his meds.
You have been able to stand back and let him make his own choices is this not one of these times? You did not cause it, you can't cure it and, you can't control it either. You know all of this. What will be will be...
You have been able to stand back and let him make his own choices is this not one of these times? You did not cause it, you can't cure it and, you can't control it either. You know all of this. What will be will be...
*
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lincolnshire, England
Posts: 464
Originally Posted by EQUUS
At the top of my list of things to be thankful for would lie one thing:
I can talk about my feelings easily and ask for help.
Because of that I can get:
help from friends
wisdom from all the people I know
kindness
the empathy of others
support
words that break through walls of isolation
medical help when I need it
demonstrations of caring just because I needed one
And so much, so much more.....
I can talk about my feelings easily and ask for help.
Because of that I can get:
help from friends
wisdom from all the people I know
kindness
the empathy of others
support
words that break through walls of isolation
medical help when I need it
demonstrations of caring just because I needed one
And so much, so much more.....
Wisdom? Ermm? Maybe?
Empathy? No question!
Support? Tights or stockings?
Words? Wall breakers hopefully
Medical help? Willing to search for info
Demonstrations? Banners ready!!
((((((((((((((((EQUUS))))))))))))))))))))
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Just to translate - tins (or tinnies) are cans of beer and vids are videos.
Equus, hon, you don't need to do anything different than you have always done. He is a grown man, he knows what the score is. If he chooses to drink, then that is his perogative, I'm afraid. I understand that you feel uneasy - I would too in your shoes.
Tap into all the wonderful support you have.
Love
Minnie
xxx
Equus, hon, you don't need to do anything different than you have always done. He is a grown man, he knows what the score is. If he chooses to drink, then that is his perogative, I'm afraid. I understand that you feel uneasy - I would too in your shoes.
Tap into all the wonderful support you have.
Love
Minnie
xxx
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 42
I know if it were me I would admantly say no beer what so ever and I have and it's worked...sometimes!!! That's the point, no matter how hard we try enforce or control their behavior, they do what they want to do, and nine times out of ten, if they want a drink, they'll get a drink by whatever means. So don't feel guilty, you are not at fault, you are just loving and caring and unfortunatelythe one to witness the destruction. You can tell him no alcohol and then leave it up to him, if that is what you want to do. Then he has to make the choice, a nice night watchng a movie together sober or a few drinks , leading to few more drinks and not such a night for you and only in the moment for him, based on resulting health concerns, medication contraindictions and a host of other things. I hope in the end, you have a nice night together .
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Okay I have a little more time now.
Basically I didn't get chance to see the responses here but had come to the same conclusions - I think lots of my OP was about feeling uneasy but having actually done what I thought was the right balance, I think it was.
After posting I thought about it and I've always believed we control some stuff but not all, like a game of cards some is dealt but how you play it is up to you. Him having a drink last night was dealt but I also know he finds it easier to talk after a drink and I know the amount he had planned wouldn't get him at all drunk (don't laugh - once halved it was only 2 cans of 3.4% bitter!!). That's a card - in fact it's a huge card which I could either worry about or get on with.
The net result was we did talk - a whopping and (I think) VERY important conversation. First of all he was aware (more aware that he wasn't aware) last weekend, he described it like the feeling when you wake up and aren't sure what's dream and what's real. That mattered to me lots.
Secondly he described more about the effects the last time he took AD's - enough detail for me to feel happy there are clear things to watch for if these ones start having the same effect.
Thirdly he talked about the past but very differently, it was extremely positive. When I acknowledged that he's been fighting this alone for years, it is real, it is bloody hard and yet he has a good job, a house, a wife who adores him, all the markers of someone succeeding, normally he would have written all that off. THIS TIME for the first time, he acknowledged how bad it was at Uni for him mentally - not just the booze, he kept his responsibility, acknowledged he didn't deal with it then at all BUT FORGAVE HIMSELF for being kicked out.
AND IT WENT ON.... I suggested that I think (just opinion) there was a chemical problem right from the start, based on his and his Mum's stories pre-school, that getting bullied made it worse but partly he wound up in that situation because there was already a problem. I also suggested (as a behaviourist) the solution won't just need to be chemical - that he's had to deal with stuff other people don't concieve of, that whatever was chemically wrong will have produced habits which need correcting, that HE isn't the sort to get brainwashed, he can ask for help and filter which of it he uses - but he may need some. WAIT FOR IT........
HE AGREED!!!! It's not an immediate plan, I'm not going to push - one step at a time and going on AD's is a big enough step for now. Anyway in the UK there's a six month minimum waiting list for anything else - he isn't high risk because he isn't suicidal.
As if that wasn't enough - and oh boy it would have been! There's more...
Basically I didn't get chance to see the responses here but had come to the same conclusions - I think lots of my OP was about feeling uneasy but having actually done what I thought was the right balance, I think it was.
After posting I thought about it and I've always believed we control some stuff but not all, like a game of cards some is dealt but how you play it is up to you. Him having a drink last night was dealt but I also know he finds it easier to talk after a drink and I know the amount he had planned wouldn't get him at all drunk (don't laugh - once halved it was only 2 cans of 3.4% bitter!!). That's a card - in fact it's a huge card which I could either worry about or get on with.
The net result was we did talk - a whopping and (I think) VERY important conversation. First of all he was aware (more aware that he wasn't aware) last weekend, he described it like the feeling when you wake up and aren't sure what's dream and what's real. That mattered to me lots.
Secondly he described more about the effects the last time he took AD's - enough detail for me to feel happy there are clear things to watch for if these ones start having the same effect.
Thirdly he talked about the past but very differently, it was extremely positive. When I acknowledged that he's been fighting this alone for years, it is real, it is bloody hard and yet he has a good job, a house, a wife who adores him, all the markers of someone succeeding, normally he would have written all that off. THIS TIME for the first time, he acknowledged how bad it was at Uni for him mentally - not just the booze, he kept his responsibility, acknowledged he didn't deal with it then at all BUT FORGAVE HIMSELF for being kicked out.
AND IT WENT ON.... I suggested that I think (just opinion) there was a chemical problem right from the start, based on his and his Mum's stories pre-school, that getting bullied made it worse but partly he wound up in that situation because there was already a problem. I also suggested (as a behaviourist) the solution won't just need to be chemical - that he's had to deal with stuff other people don't concieve of, that whatever was chemically wrong will have produced habits which need correcting, that HE isn't the sort to get brainwashed, he can ask for help and filter which of it he uses - but he may need some. WAIT FOR IT........
HE AGREED!!!! It's not an immediate plan, I'm not going to push - one step at a time and going on AD's is a big enough step for now. Anyway in the UK there's a six month minimum waiting list for anything else - he isn't high risk because he isn't suicidal.
As if that wasn't enough - and oh boy it would have been! There's more...
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Fantastic!!
You know, I've had a feeling from your posts over the past few months that D has been edging his way to his "bottom". And it just goes to show that everyone's bottom is different (if that doesn't sound too odd!). I think you have shown him that there is more to life than the struggles he's had in his head all these years. Maybe, now he has a soft place to land, he feels like he can address these issues.
When you say "anything else", what do you mean?
Good going, equus.
Love
Minnie
xxx
You know, I've had a feeling from your posts over the past few months that D has been edging his way to his "bottom". And it just goes to show that everyone's bottom is different (if that doesn't sound too odd!). I think you have shown him that there is more to life than the struggles he's had in his head all these years. Maybe, now he has a soft place to land, he feels like he can address these issues.
When you say "anything else", what do you mean?
Good going, equus.
Love
Minnie
xxx
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
When you say "anything else", what do you mean?
I'm not sure he's hit a bottom now, I know D had come one hell of a long way before looking for me, he did hit a bottom and decided he didn't want to give up on life. Since then he's had years of putting his life back together while all this has still been happening. I'm not joking - he really is one kick ass dude!!
He was looking at the whole thing from a different perspective and that included alcohol, he was very receptive to admitting it aggrivates the hell out of the depression and also receptive to really stopping if that's what it takes to control it. It's hard to explain but these were massive attitude shifts - it'll still take time, but attitudes have to change before there's any hope of anything else changing.
He's going to see how it goes on the pills and is looking at himself more openly than I've ever known - that's carried on through today. He's also acknowledged the doc does need more details. Roll on his appointment next tuesday!!
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
That's what I mean about a different bottom. His halt in the major decline was one - now it's about really taking ownership of his problems. It is so brilliant to hear.
Counselling is a nightmare on the NHS as far as waiting times are concerned. It might be an idea to go private when he's ready. Try the BACP website.
Glad to hear you're both on a roll.
Counselling is a nightmare on the NHS as far as waiting times are concerned. It might be an idea to go private when he's ready. Try the BACP website.
Glad to hear you're both on a roll.
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