Blackouts, OR "I never said that"
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Blackouts, OR "I never said that"
I'm almost embarrassed to ask about this. We all know that dealing with blackouts/memory loss is something that happens to many of us. Not new and in a way it's not even important considering everything else, which is part of my detachment. AH has memory losses, blackouts, etc. but will never admit to it.
But today I am having a SEVERE detachment slip. I am furious, upset, feel a little crazy even though I know it's "not" me. We live in a fairly isolated place, 90 minutes from friends/family/city, and AH's adult kids visit fairly regularly (I need to escape this at times and I do!). I have wanted to get an apartment near the city for a while. AH knows this, although he really doesn't want to do much outside this area (very depressing, and I know much of it relates to drinking, and he is older, 58). We travel sometimes, and do things together, but still... I am always driving to see friends and family, etc. I'd like to stay at an apartment 2-3 nights a week for work and to see people, etc.
Anyway, I haven't had a job in a while partly due to where we live. I just took a job that is very low paying and a long commute but it will get me out of the house and at least I will have a little money of my own. I have waited to find something much better, and I am "overqualified", but it is something. We have discussed getting an apartment these last few days before I took the job. He agreed it would be a good idea, and we discussed places, etc. and that he'd come to the city sometimes. Today AH says he never said he wanted an apartment! Money is a bit tight, but I don't buy the excuse. I can't afford it on my own unless I use most of my salary. Rent and real estate is very high here. So he says he'll help me get started, etc. but doesn't want to stay there, just here. He did say he wanted it! Yesterday! He did say he'd spend more time in the city! Granted, this is more for me, and I don't care if he's there a lot, but he did say these things (also during a sober period!). Now he says well, we can go out more. I am really doubting my sanity.
I am just devastated and angry at myself for believing him! There hasn't been any fighting lately, just "normal" conversation. But he really seems to think he never said anything. It is just a horrible feeling. I don't want to go near him right now. I may ??? get the apartment, but then I won't be able to have my own money until I get a better job, he knows this...what a crazy situation. I guess it is manipulation, crazymaking on top of the blackouts. I spent a long time feeling crazy, but I foolishly thought much of that was behind me (my reactions and being able to tell). Well, I am wondering how you guys would handle this, other than walking out??? Experience with blackouts? Am I crazy as to how I am reacting? I really appreciate any thoughts.
But today I am having a SEVERE detachment slip. I am furious, upset, feel a little crazy even though I know it's "not" me. We live in a fairly isolated place, 90 minutes from friends/family/city, and AH's adult kids visit fairly regularly (I need to escape this at times and I do!). I have wanted to get an apartment near the city for a while. AH knows this, although he really doesn't want to do much outside this area (very depressing, and I know much of it relates to drinking, and he is older, 58). We travel sometimes, and do things together, but still... I am always driving to see friends and family, etc. I'd like to stay at an apartment 2-3 nights a week for work and to see people, etc.
Anyway, I haven't had a job in a while partly due to where we live. I just took a job that is very low paying and a long commute but it will get me out of the house and at least I will have a little money of my own. I have waited to find something much better, and I am "overqualified", but it is something. We have discussed getting an apartment these last few days before I took the job. He agreed it would be a good idea, and we discussed places, etc. and that he'd come to the city sometimes. Today AH says he never said he wanted an apartment! Money is a bit tight, but I don't buy the excuse. I can't afford it on my own unless I use most of my salary. Rent and real estate is very high here. So he says he'll help me get started, etc. but doesn't want to stay there, just here. He did say he wanted it! Yesterday! He did say he'd spend more time in the city! Granted, this is more for me, and I don't care if he's there a lot, but he did say these things (also during a sober period!). Now he says well, we can go out more. I am really doubting my sanity.
I am just devastated and angry at myself for believing him! There hasn't been any fighting lately, just "normal" conversation. But he really seems to think he never said anything. It is just a horrible feeling. I don't want to go near him right now. I may ??? get the apartment, but then I won't be able to have my own money until I get a better job, he knows this...what a crazy situation. I guess it is manipulation, crazymaking on top of the blackouts. I spent a long time feeling crazy, but I foolishly thought much of that was behind me (my reactions and being able to tell). Well, I am wondering how you guys would handle this, other than walking out??? Experience with blackouts? Am I crazy as to how I am reacting? I really appreciate any thoughts.
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Anaheim,CA
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It took me the longest time to "get it" regarding this.
I am naive enough to think, if someone says something, they mean it.
I have struggled with this for so long. Not only does my ABF claim he didn't say something, but he often SWEARS I said something I didn't! Forgive me because I don't remember who posted it but a while back someone posted that their other half not only badgered her with questions but answered for her! That's what mine does and then days later he'll claim something he said for me was something I said!
I have learned to simply never believe him. Sad. I simply detached to the point of small talk only. And it's a major factor in my decision that we're done.
If it were me, I'd concentrate on a better job first. With more income you could have that apartment of your dreams, you'd know and he'd know it.
It would open your world to many more options.
I hope you find a way to make things right for you.
I am naive enough to think, if someone says something, they mean it.
I have struggled with this for so long. Not only does my ABF claim he didn't say something, but he often SWEARS I said something I didn't! Forgive me because I don't remember who posted it but a while back someone posted that their other half not only badgered her with questions but answered for her! That's what mine does and then days later he'll claim something he said for me was something I said!
I have learned to simply never believe him. Sad. I simply detached to the point of small talk only. And it's a major factor in my decision that we're done.
If it were me, I'd concentrate on a better job first. With more income you could have that apartment of your dreams, you'd know and he'd know it.
It would open your world to many more options.
I hope you find a way to make things right for you.
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Join Date: May 2004
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You mean other than wanting to tape record every conversation involving important issues? My xAH used to do that every night... anything discussed after the first drink or 2 was never remembered!!! It makes it very hard to do any/discuss any biz ends of marriages, families, etc...
Other than knowing exactly what you are talking about, I have NO solution. It's just maddening!
Other than knowing exactly what you are talking about, I have NO solution. It's just maddening!
Acting not reacting
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Yep, I too thought about recording conversations. I thought it was me losing my mind...partially bc I believed him more than I believed myself. I have found the attention span of my Alcoholic to be very short and while he means it when he is saying it...he doesnt mean it later. so all he can do is deny it. Either that or he was so drunk he has no idea it ever came out of his mouth. I am with WTL on this//I think a new job would help and you can do it on your own! But, good luck and let us know how it goes!
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
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My AH has been sober for 2 1/2 years and STILL can't remember half of our conversations. I'm not sure if it's that he just doesn't pay attention when I'm talking or if he has permanent memory loss for his drinking days. Either way it is SOOOO frustrating!
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: massachusetts
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Thank you, everyone, for your posts. It really does help to feel that you're less alone and not crazy. I like the tape recordings idea, but I don't think AH would even believe his own words! If I say something, I mean it, as WTL said. And yes, I have also been told what I said, when I didn't say it. How do you have a real marriage when you can't even have legitimate discussions and make important decisions together? This just hit me on the head (again).
I think the idea of getting a better job before the apartment is a good one (thanks!) . My field is generally very well-paid, but for many reasons it's hard to find a good job, so I am trying things out in the interim. I kind of doubt I'll last long on this job. I just want to be away from the craziness.
Off this topic, I think my AH is much more concerned with his spoiled adult children (LONG story). I doubt he'd forget any of their important conversations or wishes. That is a topic for another day. I'm feeling a bit pathetic.
Thanks, I needed it!
I think the idea of getting a better job before the apartment is a good one (thanks!) . My field is generally very well-paid, but for many reasons it's hard to find a good job, so I am trying things out in the interim. I kind of doubt I'll last long on this job. I just want to be away from the craziness.
Off this topic, I think my AH is much more concerned with his spoiled adult children (LONG story). I doubt he'd forget any of their important conversations or wishes. That is a topic for another day. I'm feeling a bit pathetic.
Thanks, I needed it!
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Rara,
I got my knuckles rapped on this board recently for expecting someone to behave as I would. You said "When I say something I mean it" and so do I. I also am where I say I am going to be and call when I say I will but expecting another person to behave as I do is a red flag for me. This same thing, for me at least, can translate into work relationships, neighbor relationships, even grocery lines.
This has nothing at all to do with him not remembering what he says...I have that same issue and it can be infuriating...but that one phrase jumped out at me.
Hugs,
JT
I got my knuckles rapped on this board recently for expecting someone to behave as I would. You said "When I say something I mean it" and so do I. I also am where I say I am going to be and call when I say I will but expecting another person to behave as I do is a red flag for me. This same thing, for me at least, can translate into work relationships, neighbor relationships, even grocery lines.
This has nothing at all to do with him not remembering what he says...I have that same issue and it can be infuriating...but that one phrase jumped out at me.
Hugs,
JT
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JT,
At first I didn't know what you meant about "when I say something I mean it"...however, I was misquoting walking the line in the above post-- "When someone says something I think they mean it". WTL is right, and that is what I meant to say.
And, as I was posting, both the first and last ones, I kept thinking about whether I sounded arrogant, like I was always right and my AH (or an A) is always wrong. Not my intention, I am very sensitive to that. A's can be arrogant and get "puffed up", their way or the highway. But that is from a drinking perspective. So, what I am trying to say is that I never feel like I am better or that my AH should behave as I do.
When I talk about my endless sorrows with a friend or my mother, I always say that I am not trying to sound superior to my AH or his $^!%*@ alcoholic family. Yes, I am disgusted and horrified, etc. by things that go on with my AH and his family. I wouldn't do what they do because it isn't me and it goes against my values and beliefs. But I am not better! I have plenty of my own issues and although no one in my family is an A, we have plenty of our own dysfunction. But dealing with behavior and issues that are against your values and who you are, is to me probably the worst part of the disease, because you're slowly killing yourself, in a sense.
Thanks for reminding me of this!
At first I didn't know what you meant about "when I say something I mean it"...however, I was misquoting walking the line in the above post-- "When someone says something I think they mean it". WTL is right, and that is what I meant to say.
And, as I was posting, both the first and last ones, I kept thinking about whether I sounded arrogant, like I was always right and my AH (or an A) is always wrong. Not my intention, I am very sensitive to that. A's can be arrogant and get "puffed up", their way or the highway. But that is from a drinking perspective. So, what I am trying to say is that I never feel like I am better or that my AH should behave as I do.
When I talk about my endless sorrows with a friend or my mother, I always say that I am not trying to sound superior to my AH or his $^!%*@ alcoholic family. Yes, I am disgusted and horrified, etc. by things that go on with my AH and his family. I wouldn't do what they do because it isn't me and it goes against my values and beliefs. But I am not better! I have plenty of my own issues and although no one in my family is an A, we have plenty of our own dysfunction. But dealing with behavior and issues that are against your values and who you are, is to me probably the worst part of the disease, because you're slowly killing yourself, in a sense.
Thanks for reminding me of this!
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Join Date: May 2004
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It has been said, they stop growing emotionally when they start to drink, so if he started at age 14, then that is where he is, unless he hears the word car or ball game.
My dear friend found her teen boy did not liston. She said, "It is called mother deafness" . This because Mothers talk more, so boys learn to tune them out, so if he is stuck in teen years, he tunes you out. Myself I believe this is true.
Have you picked up books on the male brain??? We are so different, then add alcohol. It is a no win situation.
You need that apt and fun normal female friends to talk to. I love men, but I accept they are incapable of storeing anything in their brain except info on ball games, and cars.
My Dad listened to me, but then one day he had a discussion with my sis . He said, "i told her this and that". I asked, "What did she say to that??? He said, "I don't know, I didn't listen." Even my own wonderful DAD. They just can tune out the female voice.
Idea LOL
Stop talking about anything and when he misses your voice flying thru the air, say, 'Well I need to have your full attention, and look eye ball to eye ball, and both ears or I won't waste my voice". I joke, but might be fun to try. Won't work.
If by chance he agrees be sure to turn off TV or he will get lost in the pictures and not hear. You need to go with your gut. each case is different. clancy46
My dear friend found her teen boy did not liston. She said, "It is called mother deafness" . This because Mothers talk more, so boys learn to tune them out, so if he is stuck in teen years, he tunes you out. Myself I believe this is true.
Have you picked up books on the male brain??? We are so different, then add alcohol. It is a no win situation.
You need that apt and fun normal female friends to talk to. I love men, but I accept they are incapable of storeing anything in their brain except info on ball games, and cars.
My Dad listened to me, but then one day he had a discussion with my sis . He said, "i told her this and that". I asked, "What did she say to that??? He said, "I don't know, I didn't listen." Even my own wonderful DAD. They just can tune out the female voice.
Idea LOL
Stop talking about anything and when he misses your voice flying thru the air, say, 'Well I need to have your full attention, and look eye ball to eye ball, and both ears or I won't waste my voice". I joke, but might be fun to try. Won't work.
If by chance he agrees be sure to turn off TV or he will get lost in the pictures and not hear. You need to go with your gut. each case is different. clancy46
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Clancy,
You crack me up. First time I've laughed today, except for my mother saying, "he won't get an apartment, but I'd like to see the checkbook to see what he sends his kids"
I especially liked "only hear car or ball". So true! I think my AH started drinking in his teens, and many times I feel I am talking to a kid, a stubborn kid. That look, like "How could I have said that?" That blank look.
As far as men, you're right, they don't listen well anyway. I think I've always known that. It's the big decisions, the important conversations that he denies that make me crazy. It feels like disrespect to me, alcohol or not.
And yes, I need the apartment and the girl friends. I have the girl friends, just can't see them much living so far out. I think I will put the apartment on hold for now because of money, but I am really crushed about it. I had a plan! Part of my semi-escape route, you know?
Thanks for your post!
You crack me up. First time I've laughed today, except for my mother saying, "he won't get an apartment, but I'd like to see the checkbook to see what he sends his kids"
I especially liked "only hear car or ball". So true! I think my AH started drinking in his teens, and many times I feel I am talking to a kid, a stubborn kid. That look, like "How could I have said that?" That blank look.As far as men, you're right, they don't listen well anyway. I think I've always known that. It's the big decisions, the important conversations that he denies that make me crazy. It feels like disrespect to me, alcohol or not.
And yes, I need the apartment and the girl friends. I have the girl friends, just can't see them much living so far out. I think I will put the apartment on hold for now because of money, but I am really crushed about it. I had a plan! Part of my semi-escape route, you know?
Thanks for your post!
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Originally Posted by walkingtheline
Forgive me because I don't remember who posted it but a while back someone posted that their other half not only badgered her with questions but answered for her! That's what mine does and then days later he'll claim something he said for me was something I said!
Christine
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Originally Posted by drgnfly30
He still denys that his drinking is at the root of his problems - he contends that it must have been me that provoked him some how...
I agree, I often feel that he thinks it is ME who provoked it or imagined it. It is awful, just so demoralizing. I began to act all chipper and cheery tonight, so he doesn't think I am upset by his behavior. But then, I feel like--well is that saying that I think it's acceptable????? Again, I don't know what is real. I start playing his game (this is new for me, I used to scream, plead, sulk, etc.). I have never been good at playing games, I am a very forthright, feelings on my sleeve person--it's always been very, very hard for me to "act". I'm sure I am not the only one that feels that way! Just more stress!
Thanks!
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Christine saying this reminded me of something:
Once, during a fight over "no, I didn't say that" which had been recorded, he had somehow leaned on the "memo" button on our phone answer machine...anyway...in a fit of anger I said,
Oh, so I shoved my hand up your ***, moved your mouth and you were my ventriloquist dummy?
I'll NEVER forget the stunned look on his face! I rarely use four letter words and rarely yell. It stopped him COLD, at least on that occasion.
he contends that it must have been me that provoked him some how...
Oh, so I shoved my hand up your ***, moved your mouth and you were my ventriloquist dummy?
I'll NEVER forget the stunned look on his face! I rarely use four letter words and rarely yell. It stopped him COLD, at least on that occasion.
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Clancy you are a stitch!
What you say has a lot of truth to it. When Ward drinks at night I am elsewhere. Here, the tub, reading in bed and he never notices. But recently he had some surgery, was sober for two weeks and he wondered where the heck I was all the time and what I was doing.
He does tune me out. But in retaliation I have had some very entertaining moments saying nothing when he expected me to.
What you say has a lot of truth to it. When Ward drinks at night I am elsewhere. Here, the tub, reading in bed and he never notices. But recently he had some surgery, was sober for two weeks and he wondered where the heck I was all the time and what I was doing.
He does tune me out. But in retaliation I have had some very entertaining moments saying nothing when he expected me to.
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I was watching I love Lucy today so this thread is just weird. Ricky and Fred were planning there weekly boxing night on tv and Lucy and Ethel were in the kitchen discussing the fact that they were tired of being ignored. Anyway they came up with all sorts of hair brained ideas to get the guys attention. Even got arrested in the process. I wish I could have seen the end of that show. Anyway I know that when it comes to communication H and I have a major breakdown. Some times he will agree to avoid any type of disagreement and then turn around and do what ever he wants. At other times he tunes me out completely. At other times he hears what he wants and I end up telling him verbatim what I said was not what he just repeated. Yes its frustrating so I do not discuss anything important anymore. I just do it.
Zoe
Zoe
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Originally Posted by Clancy46
I love men, but I accept they are incapable of storeing anything in their brain except info on ball games, and cars. clancy46
Anyway, Not too long ago, I posted that my AH had a doctor apointment, and I had received a reminder call for it one day and told him and the time (which they had changed) We had a whole discussion about it! Well, he showed up late to the original time, not the time they had told me, that I had relayed to him! He was so mad, and I TOLD him that we had had a whole discussion about it! Just the other day, he got a bill for $50 for a missed appointment! He was saying how he wasn't going to pay it!!!!! Thats what he gets!!!
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It's kind of funny this thread was started. I just got the book "Marriage On the Rocks" and am most of the way through it. I always thought blackouts were when they actually passed out. I didnt realize they could be in a blackout and still functioning! This explains a whole lot! I get so frustrated when my AH asks me the same question every night (that I have answered the same every night)!!!!
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Got a new one from last night. We are planning to spend a few days over July 4th in NYC... According to my 14 son, AH was on the phone with someone (tourist info or something) last night at about 9pm, while blacked out. He was asking them if it was possible to access some particular place to watch the fireworks.. the guy starts telling him that he wouldn't be able to tell him about accessiblity. AH starts to really press the issue, the guy ends up telling AH that Homeland Security prevents him from giving him this information etc...... All I can picture is being under some sort of survielance by the Government because they think we are terrorists... AH remembers none of this...
If I don't post for a while...I'm being detained somewhere ! LOL!
Christine
If I don't post for a while...I'm being detained somewhere ! LOL!
Christine
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