Trust
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 20
Trust
I've been dating an addict for a bit over a year now. I haven't really ever emotionally committed to him until about a month ago.
When I first met him, he told me his story about his relationships. He was married for 3 years, had 2 kids, and left town to live near his parents (who are his caretakers).
During this time he met a girl and they stayed together for the next 10 years. She helped him raise his kids when they were in town. During 10 years he continued to use off and on until the relationship with the woman was too battered for them to stay together.
They split up 3 years ago and she moved back to her hometown, which is about 4 hours away.
His children knew her as a mother figure as when they were with their Dad, and I'm guessing she was the one who gave them a safe place to fall when they were in.
In the last 3 years whenever she would come to town to visit friends, she and my bf hooked up to have sex.
Being in Al-Anon for 3 years, I knew what his ex must have gone through in the relationship. In my view, for her to hook up with him on and off to have sex tells me that she has never completely let him go emotionally.
He said she was in love with him, but in retrospect, he doesn't think he was ever in love with her. That she was like a director in the relationship, but that she helped him do his responsibilities when he wasn't doing them.
I have been dating him for over a year now. He has never dated anyone in Al-Anon until me. He has been devoted and committed to me emotionally and sexually during this time, even though I was chose to stay emotionally absent within the relationship.
Over the course of the year he has gone on his crack binges every 4-5 times that I know of.
I would not fully open my heart to him because I have 2 children. I wouldn't allow myself to get emotionally entangled with the disease when it would trickle down to my children. I did not introduce him to my children for 7 months.
He has always expressed that he is deeply in love with me and that he desires to share his life with someone that has such spiritual connection through program, because he knows that he needs to live his life this way to recover.
(The - they see what you got and want it thing)
He says he's never experienced a spiritual relationship with his partner and that now he understands how and why people want to be married.
His children have always lived about 3 hours away from him with their Mother and she has done the brunt of parenting and financial rearing.
He has 3 months sober now. He landed a great job in the same town that his children live in and he moved there. I totally support him and encourage him to be where he is, which is near his children, because that's what they deserve.
I don't have a problem having a long-distance relationship because it works for me too. I refuse to get married to another addict/alcoholic while my children are at home. I won't take the risk of another man falling off of the wagon and bringing emotional abuse into our lives. I am busy working, raising my boys, and maintaining my program and friends. I don't want to put my whole focus on an intimate relationship right now. I can't.
My ex-husband (children's father) was sober for 10 years and worked a program when he chose to use again. Over the course of time, all hell broke loose and the whole thing was pretty traumatic for all of us. It has taken me every bit of this 3 years to get my head back on straight.
So, now I have made a full committment to my BF. He's doing all the right things and I am proud of his progress. He is a great guy outside of the disease.
When my BF moved back out to his children's town and was getting his stuff together, he got tired of me being so emotionally distant and severed our relationship.
Just so happen that I where I am in the program in being entirely ready to have God remove all my defects of character. I accepted that he didn't want me and set boundaries for him to not call or e-mail me until I could heal.
6 days later he called and said he had made a mistake. I had worked my steps and looked at my part in it and made a decision to fully commit and open up to him. He has worked his butt off the get to where he is at.
My unmanagability today comes from his ex-girlfriend that he was with for 10 years. During the 6 days we were off... he called her and they set up a date to get together for sex. March 18th.
He told me about it to be honest and knew that he would have to let her know that we were back together. I have never had a reason to doubt that he is faithful to me.
Yet it bugged the **** out of me. I have come to learn that when something outside of me is bugging me that I can only change myself. I started really praying about my new-found insecurity and found that I was feeling guilty for the way that I treated him over last year as if he was merely expendable to me. I kept my wall up to him and his disease.
I expressed that I felt uncomfortable about the whole ex-girlfriend thing and that I realized that my insecurity had a lot to do with the fact that I never fully committed myself to him and now I know what it feels like to be so expendable.
Anyway...... she's still going to drop into his town next week with the premise of seeing his children, and he told me that although he told her we are back together and that they wouldn't be having sexual relationships, she expressed her disappointment at the fact that after all they had together, that now I get to reep the good stuff (healthy relationship).
I think she's still in-love with him and is attracted to him even more now that he's getting his act together and living through God's grace.
My Bf says if we can't trust each other we don't have a relationship. And I agree.
I feel so uncomfortable about her. I feel she is a threat to me and my relationship.
I need some words of wisdom. Thanks for listening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When I first met him, he told me his story about his relationships. He was married for 3 years, had 2 kids, and left town to live near his parents (who are his caretakers).
During this time he met a girl and they stayed together for the next 10 years. She helped him raise his kids when they were in town. During 10 years he continued to use off and on until the relationship with the woman was too battered for them to stay together.
They split up 3 years ago and she moved back to her hometown, which is about 4 hours away.
His children knew her as a mother figure as when they were with their Dad, and I'm guessing she was the one who gave them a safe place to fall when they were in.
In the last 3 years whenever she would come to town to visit friends, she and my bf hooked up to have sex.
Being in Al-Anon for 3 years, I knew what his ex must have gone through in the relationship. In my view, for her to hook up with him on and off to have sex tells me that she has never completely let him go emotionally.
He said she was in love with him, but in retrospect, he doesn't think he was ever in love with her. That she was like a director in the relationship, but that she helped him do his responsibilities when he wasn't doing them.
I have been dating him for over a year now. He has never dated anyone in Al-Anon until me. He has been devoted and committed to me emotionally and sexually during this time, even though I was chose to stay emotionally absent within the relationship.
Over the course of the year he has gone on his crack binges every 4-5 times that I know of.
I would not fully open my heart to him because I have 2 children. I wouldn't allow myself to get emotionally entangled with the disease when it would trickle down to my children. I did not introduce him to my children for 7 months.
He has always expressed that he is deeply in love with me and that he desires to share his life with someone that has such spiritual connection through program, because he knows that he needs to live his life this way to recover.
(The - they see what you got and want it thing)
He says he's never experienced a spiritual relationship with his partner and that now he understands how and why people want to be married.
His children have always lived about 3 hours away from him with their Mother and she has done the brunt of parenting and financial rearing.
He has 3 months sober now. He landed a great job in the same town that his children live in and he moved there. I totally support him and encourage him to be where he is, which is near his children, because that's what they deserve.
I don't have a problem having a long-distance relationship because it works for me too. I refuse to get married to another addict/alcoholic while my children are at home. I won't take the risk of another man falling off of the wagon and bringing emotional abuse into our lives. I am busy working, raising my boys, and maintaining my program and friends. I don't want to put my whole focus on an intimate relationship right now. I can't.
My ex-husband (children's father) was sober for 10 years and worked a program when he chose to use again. Over the course of time, all hell broke loose and the whole thing was pretty traumatic for all of us. It has taken me every bit of this 3 years to get my head back on straight.
So, now I have made a full committment to my BF. He's doing all the right things and I am proud of his progress. He is a great guy outside of the disease.
When my BF moved back out to his children's town and was getting his stuff together, he got tired of me being so emotionally distant and severed our relationship.
Just so happen that I where I am in the program in being entirely ready to have God remove all my defects of character. I accepted that he didn't want me and set boundaries for him to not call or e-mail me until I could heal.
6 days later he called and said he had made a mistake. I had worked my steps and looked at my part in it and made a decision to fully commit and open up to him. He has worked his butt off the get to where he is at.
My unmanagability today comes from his ex-girlfriend that he was with for 10 years. During the 6 days we were off... he called her and they set up a date to get together for sex. March 18th.
He told me about it to be honest and knew that he would have to let her know that we were back together. I have never had a reason to doubt that he is faithful to me.
Yet it bugged the **** out of me. I have come to learn that when something outside of me is bugging me that I can only change myself. I started really praying about my new-found insecurity and found that I was feeling guilty for the way that I treated him over last year as if he was merely expendable to me. I kept my wall up to him and his disease.
I expressed that I felt uncomfortable about the whole ex-girlfriend thing and that I realized that my insecurity had a lot to do with the fact that I never fully committed myself to him and now I know what it feels like to be so expendable.
Anyway...... she's still going to drop into his town next week with the premise of seeing his children, and he told me that although he told her we are back together and that they wouldn't be having sexual relationships, she expressed her disappointment at the fact that after all they had together, that now I get to reep the good stuff (healthy relationship).
I think she's still in-love with him and is attracted to him even more now that he's getting his act together and living through God's grace.
My Bf says if we can't trust each other we don't have a relationship. And I agree.
I feel so uncomfortable about her. I feel she is a threat to me and my relationship.
I need some words of wisdom. Thanks for listening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Welcome again Msmetal,
While it is commendable that you are taking the time to see your part, watching his actions instead of listening to what he is saying may be far more illuminating. I have trust issues...I think most of us codies do. So why is it that I am way too quick to believe a persons words and ignore their actions until it is too late?
I am still working on that one.
JT
While it is commendable that you are taking the time to see your part, watching his actions instead of listening to what he is saying may be far more illuminating. I have trust issues...I think most of us codies do. So why is it that I am way too quick to believe a persons words and ignore their actions until it is too late?
I am still working on that one.
JT
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 20
That's a good point JT. Like I said, I have no reason to doubt him. Every other weekend either he comes here (when my kids r with their dad), or I will go there to spend time together.
We had tentative plans for me to go there on that weekend. She will be there on Friday night and leaving the next morning.
He says in light of what has gone on with the breaking up, the sex date, the insecurity in me and the disappointment in her that this would not be the right time to introduce the two of us.
I plan on going up Saturday morning as she is leaving town.
I'm reading his actions as making sense.
He says he has been honest with her and that he doesn't want to have sex with her because he is committed to me.
I will be paying attention to his actions though. And his words. It's hard to see his actions from 3 hours away.
It does give me something to focus on rather than her though.
Thanks for your input.
We had tentative plans for me to go there on that weekend. She will be there on Friday night and leaving the next morning.
He says in light of what has gone on with the breaking up, the sex date, the insecurity in me and the disappointment in her that this would not be the right time to introduce the two of us.
I plan on going up Saturday morning as she is leaving town.
I'm reading his actions as making sense.
He says he has been honest with her and that he doesn't want to have sex with her because he is committed to me.
I will be paying attention to his actions though. And his words. It's hard to see his actions from 3 hours away.
It does give me something to focus on rather than her though.
Thanks for your input.
Caring for the 3 little bears
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 509
i understand your anxiety about this, i think anyone would feel the same way, addict or not. if I was in his situation and my X was coming to see the kids, I would have my current boyfriend there, and we and the kids could meet X at McDonald's or something. But, I guess you have no control over what he decides to do about this. As JT said, actions speak louder than words.
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 20
My sentiments exactly wraybear. I suggested that I be there when she is so that he could finally introduce us and as I said his response was
"In light of what has gone on with the breaking up, the sex date, the insecurity in me and the disappointment in her that this would not be the right time to introduce the two of us".
At this point, I am trying to centered in my HP and trusting his will and WHATEVER his outcome is. Who know what will happen within the next couple of weeks.
My bf said "she may even decide not to come."
I am reading on jeolousy and unforgiveness.
I know if a guy would sex with someone else while he is with me that it wasn't meant to me anyway.
The trouble is...... during the last year, while he and on were on and off in our relationship.... When we were broken up at one point..... I got with an ex of my own and had sex with him once, which was a big mistake for me personally. And I just told him about it a couple of days ago.
I didn't feel guilty about it because he and I were not together.
So along with my own insecurity, I'm feeling a bit guilty about my own actions now, because there seems to be a correlation.
I am feeling more sane as I type all this stuff out.
I appreciate you all.
"In light of what has gone on with the breaking up, the sex date, the insecurity in me and the disappointment in her that this would not be the right time to introduce the two of us".
At this point, I am trying to centered in my HP and trusting his will and WHATEVER his outcome is. Who know what will happen within the next couple of weeks.
My bf said "she may even decide not to come."
I am reading on jeolousy and unforgiveness.
I know if a guy would sex with someone else while he is with me that it wasn't meant to me anyway.
The trouble is...... during the last year, while he and on were on and off in our relationship.... When we were broken up at one point..... I got with an ex of my own and had sex with him once, which was a big mistake for me personally. And I just told him about it a couple of days ago.
I didn't feel guilty about it because he and I were not together.
So along with my own insecurity, I'm feeling a bit guilty about my own actions now, because there seems to be a correlation.
I am feeling more sane as I type all this stuff out.
I appreciate you all.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 323
Only you can decide if you want another relationship with an addicted person. That this woman will probaly always be in the picture would be troubling for me. Having been cheated on once, I would never put myself in this position of having another woman always in the back ground. again- especially with an addicted person. You need to think long and hard if you want to risk a rerun of your past. For some reason alanoners seemed attracted again and again to alcoholics. One has to question why. dax
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: nowheresville
Posts: 872
Hi,
You just said that you also had sex with another person while you were in an off state.
And he had sex with his ex while you were in an off state.
Isn't it healthier in off states to take some time to reflect about what is going on?
Your BF is only 3 months sober, don't expect too much from him.
Actions speak louder than words.
Ngaire
You just said that you also had sex with another person while you were in an off state.
And he had sex with his ex while you were in an off state.
Isn't it healthier in off states to take some time to reflect about what is going on?
Your BF is only 3 months sober, don't expect too much from him.
Actions speak louder than words.
Ngaire
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 20
Good Morning All,
Thank you for your posts. I did sleep well wraybear once I got to sleep. I coffeed up last night, it being Friday and worked on my sanity.
BF is working through the feeling that I cheated on him, even though we were apart, because he has been completely and deeply in love with me even when he was in his FOG.
He said that even when he was using, he had lots of opportunities to give and receive sexual favors but he didn't and couldn't because even though he was choosing to get high, he still loved me deeply.
So any justifications I have of my past conduct, doesn't ride with him and he is toiling with working through his feelings on it.
I've had told him that I will do whatever it takes by listening, or answering his questions, and praying to earn his trust back. I feel like I laid my bed, and now I need to buck up and pay the piper. Because even though we were broken up at the time, we came back together, and I never told him about it.
He said that he has told his ex that He is in love with me and that he is committed to me, and that he will not be having sex with her. He says that he has been up front and honest with her, and now he is requesting that I do the same with my ex.
My ex bf knows that I have been committed to someone else sexually but I haven't told him that I am in-love now.
I am going to call my ex bf today and tell him where I am with my current BF because, I guess I have kept him in the wings.
It's where I was. And I don't want to be there anymore. Regardless of the outcomes in any of these relationships.
I feel so loved here. Bless you all. Big Hugs back.
Thank you for your posts. I did sleep well wraybear once I got to sleep. I coffeed up last night, it being Friday and worked on my sanity.
BF is working through the feeling that I cheated on him, even though we were apart, because he has been completely and deeply in love with me even when he was in his FOG.
He said that even when he was using, he had lots of opportunities to give and receive sexual favors but he didn't and couldn't because even though he was choosing to get high, he still loved me deeply.
So any justifications I have of my past conduct, doesn't ride with him and he is toiling with working through his feelings on it.
I've had told him that I will do whatever it takes by listening, or answering his questions, and praying to earn his trust back. I feel like I laid my bed, and now I need to buck up and pay the piper. Because even though we were broken up at the time, we came back together, and I never told him about it.
He said that he has told his ex that He is in love with me and that he is committed to me, and that he will not be having sex with her. He says that he has been up front and honest with her, and now he is requesting that I do the same with my ex.
My ex bf knows that I have been committed to someone else sexually but I haven't told him that I am in-love now.
I am going to call my ex bf today and tell him where I am with my current BF because, I guess I have kept him in the wings.
It's where I was. And I don't want to be there anymore. Regardless of the outcomes in any of these relationships.
I feel so loved here. Bless you all. Big Hugs back.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 20
no. not formally. He hasn't had sexual relations with her since we've been together over the last year. His has denied her the option, while we were together. Just this last time, when he broke up with me, he made a date with her and has now renigged on it with her. Although, she is still going to pass through his town on the premise of seeing him and the kids.
This is the part I'm still a bit uncomfortable about. Based on his actions in words to me and his reaction to my recent honesty, he seems to be still committed to me.
At this point I have no choice but to trust whatever the outcome is. If I find that he couldn't stay faithful to me while she is in town, then that will be the end of it. For we are together today. Hard telling what could happen by then though.
Thanks for asking. It keeps me thinking.
This is the part I'm still a bit uncomfortable about. Based on his actions in words to me and his reaction to my recent honesty, he seems to be still committed to me.
At this point I have no choice but to trust whatever the outcome is. If I find that he couldn't stay faithful to me while she is in town, then that will be the end of it. For we are together today. Hard telling what could happen by then though.
Thanks for asking. It keeps me thinking.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 20
Update on my situation
I'm back to share my current status with the above situation. I'm watching his actions. He told me Wednesday night that he needs time to himself to work through his insecurities.
I'm seeing this as his opportunity to break-up with me again, so that he is available for her next weekend when she arrives. And he can have sex with her knowing that we are not together.
I told him that I knew what he was doing. He's created a crises with me so that he can continue doing what he is doing without feeling so guilty.
He has never admitted his part in anything and has apologized for nothing.
I asked him to quit calling/e-mailing me and he started calling all the time. I haven't answered his calls.
I referred to the big book page 69 in regards to our past conducts and the changes we make and the amends we make in the process.
I feel good where I am at and that I will continue any past conduct/behavior on my part.
I've been where he's at. If he ever chooses to thouroughly work a program, I know where he will be in the future. Paying the piper and going through the emotional process of humbly removing his shortcomings.
Just for today, I am free from any intimate relationship and am happy to be here.
Thanks for your posts!
Karla B.
I'm seeing this as his opportunity to break-up with me again, so that he is available for her next weekend when she arrives. And he can have sex with her knowing that we are not together.
I told him that I knew what he was doing. He's created a crises with me so that he can continue doing what he is doing without feeling so guilty.
He has never admitted his part in anything and has apologized for nothing.
I asked him to quit calling/e-mailing me and he started calling all the time. I haven't answered his calls.
I referred to the big book page 69 in regards to our past conducts and the changes we make and the amends we make in the process.
I feel good where I am at and that I will continue any past conduct/behavior on my part.
I've been where he's at. If he ever chooses to thouroughly work a program, I know where he will be in the future. Paying the piper and going through the emotional process of humbly removing his shortcomings.
Just for today, I am free from any intimate relationship and am happy to be here.
Thanks for your posts!
Karla B.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: nowheresville
Posts: 872
MsMetal,
Glad to hear it.. I could tell from your posts what was going to happen. I'm happy you see it clearly and you are dealing with it.
He wants his cake and eat it to and real life isn't like that, not with other peoples hearts and feelings.
He is still a selfish addict.
Ngaire
Glad to hear it.. I could tell from your posts what was going to happen. I'm happy you see it clearly and you are dealing with it.
He wants his cake and eat it to and real life isn't like that, not with other peoples hearts and feelings.
He is still a selfish addict.
Ngaire
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 20
So he's left me again. I hear through the grapevine that he's hurting but relays that a relationship is only keeping him down.
For those of you who have read my thread on "Trust" you will know my situation.
How can they love you and leave you?
He calls and sounds like he's doing well that he has made a decision to let me go and apparently work on his recovery... or doing what's "right"
I understand and support this. But why does it have to be so final?
I feel like I wasn't good enough. That he used me to get where he's at...... and now he can't handle me anymore. Does it make sense to you?
I know I sound like a martyr here... but doesn't committment work 2 ways? Plus he's still having his ex over next weekend for a "sport" lay, as he calls it.
How can he say "I'm through with you because it's affecting my path of sobriety right now"
I asked him not to call me, and he calls and leaves messages like it's completely over for him.
The sound of his voice throws me into depression.
He wants me to listen to certain songs.
And he said sometime in the next month he wants to stop by and pick up his tennis shows and give me the Valentine gift he never gave me.
I'm feeling like I'm the one's that messed up. Help me out here everyone. This must be insanity, right?
For those of you who have read my thread on "Trust" you will know my situation.
How can they love you and leave you?
He calls and sounds like he's doing well that he has made a decision to let me go and apparently work on his recovery... or doing what's "right"
I understand and support this. But why does it have to be so final?
I feel like I wasn't good enough. That he used me to get where he's at...... and now he can't handle me anymore. Does it make sense to you?
I know I sound like a martyr here... but doesn't committment work 2 ways? Plus he's still having his ex over next weekend for a "sport" lay, as he calls it.
How can he say "I'm through with you because it's affecting my path of sobriety right now"
I asked him not to call me, and he calls and leaves messages like it's completely over for him.
The sound of his voice throws me into depression.
He wants me to listen to certain songs.
And he said sometime in the next month he wants to stop by and pick up his tennis shows and give me the Valentine gift he never gave me.
I'm feeling like I'm the one's that messed up. Help me out here everyone. This must be insanity, right?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sulphur LA
Posts: 47
Yup, this is insanity. He is trying to make you out the "bad guy" in all this. When I read about him moving closer to his ex, warning bells went off for me.
He has just gone through a lot of major changes... the new job, the move ... it's bound to take it's toll. I suggest you leave his situation in God's hands and focus on you right now. You weren't planning on marrying any time soon anyway, so just try to muster a little patience and wait to see how things turn out. Try not to get sucked too deeply into his drama. I think you are right, that he is creating a crises for a reason.
He has just gone through a lot of major changes... the new job, the move ... it's bound to take it's toll. I suggest you leave his situation in God's hands and focus on you right now. You weren't planning on marrying any time soon anyway, so just try to muster a little patience and wait to see how things turn out. Try not to get sucked too deeply into his drama. I think you are right, that he is creating a crises for a reason.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 323
" Plus he's still having his ex over next weekend for a "sport" lay, as he calls it."
You need to ask yourself. Do you really want a relationship with a man who is going to have 'a sport lay' everytime you have a fight. This man has no integreity. Plus he is putting your health at risk.
dax
You need to ask yourself. Do you really want a relationship with a man who is going to have 'a sport lay' everytime you have a fight. This man has no integreity. Plus he is putting your health at risk.
dax
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 20
Going from BF/GF to Friends
AAAhhhh, the ongoing saga. So I wrote him a letter and mailed it to him over the weekend: Here it is (omitting names):
March 13, 2005
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
My Dearest BF,
I am sending you blessings. I am praying for your healing daily. I am sharing my prayer room with you.
I wanted to write you to let you know where I am at today in regards to our journey together.
I have not taken your calls because I have been hurting and healing myself.
I have recognized, and clarity has come in the course of our relationship of my own shortcomings that I have carried and allowed to affect my lives and others.
I am grateful that you were honest with me about the whole EX-G/F escapade that you admitted to planning with her when you broke-up with me for 6 days.
My sponsor tells me there must be some things that I still need or needed to work out with you in order for me to grow.
I am seeing some results of this.
I have some resentment and anger over the way that I feel you played me emotionally over the last 14 months.
I have some shame, guilt, and remorse for the conducts of my behavior in the course of our relationship.
I am forgiving myself and you, and EX-G/F.
This all revolves around sex. And this is what I have been learning within our relationship.
You have told me more than once how sex was tied into your addiction. Although, you always maintained that you didn’t give in to its temptations. Which today I know is a lie. I know that you are incapable of being honest with others, let alone yourself.
You displayed deep emotional insecurity with me over the course of months we were together, not because of me, but because of your own guilt and shame that you carried to our relationship for things that you were unable to look at and admit.
You twisted my experiences over the last months to be the reasons for your anger and hostility and the reasons for breaking-up with me.
You used me to fulfill your emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual needs to get you through each day so that it would crowd out the racing thoughts of guilt and shame in your own head.
Every time, your mind races, you want me to be available to you by phone. And whenever I’m not available, you get angry, blaming, and hostile, and try to blame me and make me responsible with my words not matching my behavior.
In the beginning of our relationship, I identified these behaviors and was able to blow them off, because as you heard me say many times, - They were not mine.
I’m glad that we got back together the last couple of weeks and you confided to me the whole EX-G/F. Although, I don’t see how the truth sat you free, Your truth set me free. Thank you.
I recognize now that my sexual conduct with you played into your addictive thinking. I recognize now that my past behaviors were not good for any people involved. And there were many outside of ourselves.
I think about you and the sexual behaviors that you still choose to conduct with not only EX-G/F, but coming up, I’m sure other people.
I feel sadness knowing where your heart is and the baggage you will carry with yourself and to others until you look at this issue straight and begin to change by not doing what you want to do.
I feel sad for you because I’ve been where you’re at, and I know what’s coming for you if you ever truly work this program with TOTAL honesty and depth.
You will pay now, or you will pay later and paying later often means paying more.
I feel good about where I’m at in regards to my sexuality and my relationships. Because I have seen my mistakes and have made a decision to not do what I want to do until new behaviors replace the old.
Unfortunately, that would be in relation with you as well.
I don’t know if you will ever get to a point that I am at. I have faith and pray for your continued healing.
But I do know that when the person comes along in my life that is in the same place that I am that he will honor me and my treasure of God’s temple and the physical part of our relationship will be heaven. Not something nasty, or used, for suppressing feelings of pain.
I am glad to hear you say that you need to let me go to work on what’s right. I have always encouraged you to do so. What I hear you telling me is that you need some time alone, you need some space. I would never make you feel guilty for working on yourself, and taking care of yourself. I would never throw it in your face as something that you were doing against our relationship. If I did, it would only mean that I am in conflict with God’s will for your life.
I can’t say I believe what you are telling me by breaking-up with me again. I can not trust your disease. Which we both know is a very big part of who you are today.
I remember the whole trust lines you gave me, trying to create crises…. “If we can’t trust each other, we don’t have a relationship”. I don’t have to trust you BF, I have to trust God.
How can I trust you BF, when you really can’t even trust yourself?
I know that you will be continuing your sexual history with your ex coming up. And by the grace of God, I was open, and willing enough to see my own conduct in you and come clean and make amends.
You use EX-G/F. You always have. You want someone else directing your life so that you can place blame and responsibility on them rather than looking at yourself.
EX-G/F is not well either. She has very low self-esteem. She gives her body to feel loved by you. She seeks love outside of herself, rather than from her own Higher Power.
She is still trying to win you over. She is still hoping that you will change someday and give her the love she wants.
I see that you feel responsible to her for “sticking it out with you”. I see that she lays this guilt trip on you, that you “owe” her for her lost years with you. And I see that it works on you.
Its all pretty sick and dysfunctional. God knows that I deserve more and it will come in my life.
I will not let you keep me at arm’s length like you have EX-G/F. I will not allow you to emotionally and intimately push me and pull me to satisfy your addictive thinking.
I will love you in Christ’s love though. I will forgive you and pray for you. I will conduct myself with you in the future with respect or there will be no relationship.
I don’t know what God has planned for our futures BF, but if we are to remain together, and someday make a REAL commitment to each other, then I see this as the beginning of a beautiful healthy relationship.
I truly love you from the bottom of my heart. And even when it is painful for you, I will do the right thing by you.
I am waiting to know that you are in the same place that I am. No more baggage. No more insecurity, no more ex’s, no more emotional manipulation, no more lies, no more push and pull.
You are at a crossroad right now BF. You need to decide what you really want. And if you choose to ever try to get back what we had, I will know that you have come a long way. I will know because, you will begin to tell me everything, and you will begin to make amends, and you will begin to honor me without seeking sexual gratification.
I will not take your phone calls until I hear some growth in you. Some humility. Some honesty. Not until you can admit your part in our break-up. And show me some different actions.
The whole tennis shoe exchange is just a way to keep me hooked into your insanity, and I will not allow myself to be used by you anymore. How important are they? As you said yourself, you got them at Payless, so go buy you some more.
The Valentine’s gift? That was months ago BF. If it really meant anything to you, I would have received it then not 3 months later. Keep it. I don’t want it.
Maybe someday you will have the chance to give me gifts in earnest and not as hooks.
In the meantime, I will be placing myself in God’s hands.
Regardless, Know that in my heart, I am trusting God for your continued healing without me.
God Bless you.
Tell your folks and kids that they are in my prayers as well.
ALL my love to you,
Msmetal
<o:p></o:p>
March 13, 2005
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<o:p></o:p>
My Dearest BF,
I am sending you blessings. I am praying for your healing daily. I am sharing my prayer room with you.
I wanted to write you to let you know where I am at today in regards to our journey together.
I have not taken your calls because I have been hurting and healing myself.
I have recognized, and clarity has come in the course of our relationship of my own shortcomings that I have carried and allowed to affect my lives and others.
I am grateful that you were honest with me about the whole EX-G/F escapade that you admitted to planning with her when you broke-up with me for 6 days.
My sponsor tells me there must be some things that I still need or needed to work out with you in order for me to grow.
I am seeing some results of this.
I have some resentment and anger over the way that I feel you played me emotionally over the last 14 months.
I have some shame, guilt, and remorse for the conducts of my behavior in the course of our relationship.
I am forgiving myself and you, and EX-G/F.
This all revolves around sex. And this is what I have been learning within our relationship.
You have told me more than once how sex was tied into your addiction. Although, you always maintained that you didn’t give in to its temptations. Which today I know is a lie. I know that you are incapable of being honest with others, let alone yourself.
You displayed deep emotional insecurity with me over the course of months we were together, not because of me, but because of your own guilt and shame that you carried to our relationship for things that you were unable to look at and admit.
You twisted my experiences over the last months to be the reasons for your anger and hostility and the reasons for breaking-up with me.
You used me to fulfill your emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual needs to get you through each day so that it would crowd out the racing thoughts of guilt and shame in your own head.
Every time, your mind races, you want me to be available to you by phone. And whenever I’m not available, you get angry, blaming, and hostile, and try to blame me and make me responsible with my words not matching my behavior.
In the beginning of our relationship, I identified these behaviors and was able to blow them off, because as you heard me say many times, - They were not mine.
I’m glad that we got back together the last couple of weeks and you confided to me the whole EX-G/F. Although, I don’t see how the truth sat you free, Your truth set me free. Thank you.
I recognize now that my sexual conduct with you played into your addictive thinking. I recognize now that my past behaviors were not good for any people involved. And there were many outside of ourselves.
I think about you and the sexual behaviors that you still choose to conduct with not only EX-G/F, but coming up, I’m sure other people.
I feel sadness knowing where your heart is and the baggage you will carry with yourself and to others until you look at this issue straight and begin to change by not doing what you want to do.
I feel sad for you because I’ve been where you’re at, and I know what’s coming for you if you ever truly work this program with TOTAL honesty and depth.
You will pay now, or you will pay later and paying later often means paying more.
I feel good about where I’m at in regards to my sexuality and my relationships. Because I have seen my mistakes and have made a decision to not do what I want to do until new behaviors replace the old.
Unfortunately, that would be in relation with you as well.
I don’t know if you will ever get to a point that I am at. I have faith and pray for your continued healing.
But I do know that when the person comes along in my life that is in the same place that I am that he will honor me and my treasure of God’s temple and the physical part of our relationship will be heaven. Not something nasty, or used, for suppressing feelings of pain.
I am glad to hear you say that you need to let me go to work on what’s right. I have always encouraged you to do so. What I hear you telling me is that you need some time alone, you need some space. I would never make you feel guilty for working on yourself, and taking care of yourself. I would never throw it in your face as something that you were doing against our relationship. If I did, it would only mean that I am in conflict with God’s will for your life.
I can’t say I believe what you are telling me by breaking-up with me again. I can not trust your disease. Which we both know is a very big part of who you are today.
I remember the whole trust lines you gave me, trying to create crises…. “If we can’t trust each other, we don’t have a relationship”. I don’t have to trust you BF, I have to trust God.
How can I trust you BF, when you really can’t even trust yourself?
I know that you will be continuing your sexual history with your ex coming up. And by the grace of God, I was open, and willing enough to see my own conduct in you and come clean and make amends.
You use EX-G/F. You always have. You want someone else directing your life so that you can place blame and responsibility on them rather than looking at yourself.
EX-G/F is not well either. She has very low self-esteem. She gives her body to feel loved by you. She seeks love outside of herself, rather than from her own Higher Power.
She is still trying to win you over. She is still hoping that you will change someday and give her the love she wants.
I see that you feel responsible to her for “sticking it out with you”. I see that she lays this guilt trip on you, that you “owe” her for her lost years with you. And I see that it works on you.
Its all pretty sick and dysfunctional. God knows that I deserve more and it will come in my life.
I will not let you keep me at arm’s length like you have EX-G/F. I will not allow you to emotionally and intimately push me and pull me to satisfy your addictive thinking.
I will love you in Christ’s love though. I will forgive you and pray for you. I will conduct myself with you in the future with respect or there will be no relationship.
I don’t know what God has planned for our futures BF, but if we are to remain together, and someday make a REAL commitment to each other, then I see this as the beginning of a beautiful healthy relationship.
I truly love you from the bottom of my heart. And even when it is painful for you, I will do the right thing by you.
I am waiting to know that you are in the same place that I am. No more baggage. No more insecurity, no more ex’s, no more emotional manipulation, no more lies, no more push and pull.
You are at a crossroad right now BF. You need to decide what you really want. And if you choose to ever try to get back what we had, I will know that you have come a long way. I will know because, you will begin to tell me everything, and you will begin to make amends, and you will begin to honor me without seeking sexual gratification.
I will not take your phone calls until I hear some growth in you. Some humility. Some honesty. Not until you can admit your part in our break-up. And show me some different actions.
The whole tennis shoe exchange is just a way to keep me hooked into your insanity, and I will not allow myself to be used by you anymore. How important are they? As you said yourself, you got them at Payless, so go buy you some more.
The Valentine’s gift? That was months ago BF. If it really meant anything to you, I would have received it then not 3 months later. Keep it. I don’t want it.
Maybe someday you will have the chance to give me gifts in earnest and not as hooks.
In the meantime, I will be placing myself in God’s hands.
Regardless, Know that in my heart, I am trusting God for your continued healing without me.
God Bless you.
Tell your folks and kids that they are in my prayers as well.
ALL my love to you,
Msmetal
<o:p></o:p>
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 9
Msmental > it's been sooooo long since I've posted I forgot my old screen name. But that's not to say I haven't been lurking on this board for the last 14 months of my successful detachment from my ABF of 7 years (although my successful detachment from codependency is still a work in progress). I stop by almost daily for words of wisdom, reminders and at times a good laugh - or even a good healthy cry. We share a common bond many will simply never understand if never touched by the disease of addiction. I read this thread tonight, which at this point ends w/ the letter you wrote (and sent?), which provoked me to re-register and come out of lurking
If you haven't already sent this letter may I suggest you sit on it for a bit? As you can see by my new screen name I am the letterqueen! I wrote soooo many letters as it seemed the only way to make my point/be heard. Letters which, in retrospect, were full of contradiction and codependency issues within myself, pushed/pulled as well and (while sometimes unconscious) were fueled by my desire to be "understood" and "fix" things - a compulsive act that kept me dizzy on that unhealthy merry-go-round of pain.
Not a one of them did any good, they only kept the revolving door of drama ajar with a neon sign that flashed "open, open, open." He always rebutted (but then again, I knew he would). The rebuttals were never what I was looking for in context - just the opposite in fact, which, not surprisingly, generally resulted in a ridiculous game of verbal ping pong.
Somewhere towards the end he said I had a true gift for creative writing, advising me to "be careful not to abuse it or it will bite you in the ass." I finally realized he never "heard" me and quite frankly I was tiring of "hearing" myself. I stopped in my tracks at that point and asked myself what I was hoping to accomplish:
1. I wanted him to understand "me" and "my" feelings BUT he didn't have enough sobriety under his belt to understand "himself" or "his feelings," let alone anyone else touched by his disease.
2. I wanted him to consider what I deemed to be the roadblocks to his recovery BUT he had many tools available to him from groups and licensed professionals far more experienced and knowledgeable then I in the field of recovery.
3. I wanted him to own the pain his disease bestowed on me BUT only I can own that pain for participating if I so chose to do so. And (in my humble opinion) guilt is a card not worth playing - believe me he's full of it. If you get a reaction to the guilt card so soon in his recovery it will likely be insincere or even worse... detrimental to his continued sobriety (i.e. he'll use). Time (his not yours) will eventually deliver the apology and understanding your seeking (not something any codie wants to hear but again IMHO so true). The good news is if you focus on your own health, when you do get it you'll probably no longer "need" it.
I took my A's advise and stopped writing in response to every hurtful voice mail, email, action. I stopped initiating letters when I felt like the pain in my heart was literally going to kill me. Funny enough I own a design firm and while copywriting has always been a part of my business I never really pushed it as a product within itself - today I've channeled this energy into extra sales that make up over a third of my annual income (guess in a way it *did* bite me in the ass!).
While I'm not suggesting you completely detach (as only you can decide whether that's the solution for you) I'll share w/ you what detachment did for me and the A:
1. By detaching and no longer participating in what I *knew* was an unhealthy situation I had time to focus on my health, my business and people important to me outside the A - restoring all, and only in the process of this, did I realize how much damage had been caused and how truly unhappy I really was, despit being so in *love*.
2. In my silence, the A was forced to reflect (not deflect). He had a couple relapses afterwards without the comfortable pillow I always placed beneath his head on the way down. Perhaps that changed his destructive path. Perhaps my exit stage left woke him up (finally losing something besides monetary things) or (something else us codies hate to consider) perhaps the absence of dealing with the complexities of a relationship (i.e. "my needs") while in recovery did the trick. Doesn't matter... because today (as far as I know) he has been sober for a year... Something we could never achieve "together" and something I prayed for every day.
He contacted me for the last time in July of 2004 and following the statement "I've come to the realization that you sincerely were there to help me. Without delving into this deeper my love will be with you always," he ended with "I pray that you find solace with your anger issues. Naturally I say this because you are truly one of the most beautiful people that have past thru my life with one small fault albeit: too my many. And I pray only for the best for you. May the angels always be at your side."
He's come along way Msmental, that was truly a mouth full for him. Sadly, I always thought we'd beat it together and reap the rewards "together" as you referred to and more then not I fear he was my "soulmate" as cliché as the statement is, but then I reflect on how our lives improved when we stepped back and worked on ourselves. I spent 7 years feeling I deserved an apology for some very cruel acts... When I got it (although he didn't actually say the words "I'm sorry") I really didn't need it anymore. I no longer needed him to validate me and or my love for him. More importantly whether a dig or just some sincere concern for "my anger issues" I didn't feel the need to correct what he obviously thinks (my silence = total disdain for him).
I think the hardest thing I've ever done was not to respond to that and say "I wish you the best to, I'm not angry and I'll always love you... Take care of yourself." But I know I'm not completely where I need to be in my own recovery to open that door and risk the gamble we'd get entwined in an alcoholic/codie game of twister. So I love him from afar, unbeknownst to him, and pray every night for his happiness and continued sobriety.
So do I have a point? LOL. Yes, and it's all over this board - when I was ready to really hear it I began to heal. I learned a lot from some very wise people on this board, both directly and indirectly. When one member asked me to perform a simple exercise I responded with answers that were all about HIM and not ME. It hit me that I had really lost *myself* so I stopped the tango they say takes two. I let him deal with his recovery on his own and me with mine. Perhaps he'll pick another partner to dance with in the interim, but if he does his party isn't over. Let go and let God or what ever HP you believe in, if it was meant to be you'll meet again - under the *right* circumstances... and then you'll have a choice really worth making.
If you haven't already sent this letter may I suggest you sit on it for a bit? As you can see by my new screen name I am the letterqueen! I wrote soooo many letters as it seemed the only way to make my point/be heard. Letters which, in retrospect, were full of contradiction and codependency issues within myself, pushed/pulled as well and (while sometimes unconscious) were fueled by my desire to be "understood" and "fix" things - a compulsive act that kept me dizzy on that unhealthy merry-go-round of pain.
Not a one of them did any good, they only kept the revolving door of drama ajar with a neon sign that flashed "open, open, open." He always rebutted (but then again, I knew he would). The rebuttals were never what I was looking for in context - just the opposite in fact, which, not surprisingly, generally resulted in a ridiculous game of verbal ping pong.
Somewhere towards the end he said I had a true gift for creative writing, advising me to "be careful not to abuse it or it will bite you in the ass." I finally realized he never "heard" me and quite frankly I was tiring of "hearing" myself. I stopped in my tracks at that point and asked myself what I was hoping to accomplish:
1. I wanted him to understand "me" and "my" feelings BUT he didn't have enough sobriety under his belt to understand "himself" or "his feelings," let alone anyone else touched by his disease.
2. I wanted him to consider what I deemed to be the roadblocks to his recovery BUT he had many tools available to him from groups and licensed professionals far more experienced and knowledgeable then I in the field of recovery.
3. I wanted him to own the pain his disease bestowed on me BUT only I can own that pain for participating if I so chose to do so. And (in my humble opinion) guilt is a card not worth playing - believe me he's full of it. If you get a reaction to the guilt card so soon in his recovery it will likely be insincere or even worse... detrimental to his continued sobriety (i.e. he'll use). Time (his not yours) will eventually deliver the apology and understanding your seeking (not something any codie wants to hear but again IMHO so true). The good news is if you focus on your own health, when you do get it you'll probably no longer "need" it.
I took my A's advise and stopped writing in response to every hurtful voice mail, email, action. I stopped initiating letters when I felt like the pain in my heart was literally going to kill me. Funny enough I own a design firm and while copywriting has always been a part of my business I never really pushed it as a product within itself - today I've channeled this energy into extra sales that make up over a third of my annual income (guess in a way it *did* bite me in the ass!).
While I'm not suggesting you completely detach (as only you can decide whether that's the solution for you) I'll share w/ you what detachment did for me and the A:
1. By detaching and no longer participating in what I *knew* was an unhealthy situation I had time to focus on my health, my business and people important to me outside the A - restoring all, and only in the process of this, did I realize how much damage had been caused and how truly unhappy I really was, despit being so in *love*.
2. In my silence, the A was forced to reflect (not deflect). He had a couple relapses afterwards without the comfortable pillow I always placed beneath his head on the way down. Perhaps that changed his destructive path. Perhaps my exit stage left woke him up (finally losing something besides monetary things) or (something else us codies hate to consider) perhaps the absence of dealing with the complexities of a relationship (i.e. "my needs") while in recovery did the trick. Doesn't matter... because today (as far as I know) he has been sober for a year... Something we could never achieve "together" and something I prayed for every day.
He contacted me for the last time in July of 2004 and following the statement "I've come to the realization that you sincerely were there to help me. Without delving into this deeper my love will be with you always," he ended with "I pray that you find solace with your anger issues. Naturally I say this because you are truly one of the most beautiful people that have past thru my life with one small fault albeit: too my many. And I pray only for the best for you. May the angels always be at your side."
He's come along way Msmental, that was truly a mouth full for him. Sadly, I always thought we'd beat it together and reap the rewards "together" as you referred to and more then not I fear he was my "soulmate" as cliché as the statement is, but then I reflect on how our lives improved when we stepped back and worked on ourselves. I spent 7 years feeling I deserved an apology for some very cruel acts... When I got it (although he didn't actually say the words "I'm sorry") I really didn't need it anymore. I no longer needed him to validate me and or my love for him. More importantly whether a dig or just some sincere concern for "my anger issues" I didn't feel the need to correct what he obviously thinks (my silence = total disdain for him).
I think the hardest thing I've ever done was not to respond to that and say "I wish you the best to, I'm not angry and I'll always love you... Take care of yourself." But I know I'm not completely where I need to be in my own recovery to open that door and risk the gamble we'd get entwined in an alcoholic/codie game of twister. So I love him from afar, unbeknownst to him, and pray every night for his happiness and continued sobriety.
So do I have a point? LOL. Yes, and it's all over this board - when I was ready to really hear it I began to heal. I learned a lot from some very wise people on this board, both directly and indirectly. When one member asked me to perform a simple exercise I responded with answers that were all about HIM and not ME. It hit me that I had really lost *myself* so I stopped the tango they say takes two. I let him deal with his recovery on his own and me with mine. Perhaps he'll pick another partner to dance with in the interim, but if he does his party isn't over. Let go and let God or what ever HP you believe in, if it was meant to be you'll meet again - under the *right* circumstances... and then you'll have a choice really worth making.
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