Navigating kids and getting help?
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Join Date: Jan 2024
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Navigating kids and getting help?
Fist post, I have been hurting a lot lately and been trying to read a lot on here, please hang in there for me. This forum is a mini sanctuary for me and some of the anxiety I have been feeling. So to start, I am becoming more convinced my wife is an alcoholic. She has always been a fairly big drinker I guess, but when we were in our mid/late 20s (now 37 & 40 with 4 and 5 y/o) it didn’t seem to be a problem like it is now… or maybe I didn't notice it or it didn't bother me till we had kids? Really not sure now though I wonder how I didn't see this coming. A year ago, I found large amount of liquor and wine bags hiding in her closet (I went looking for it because her sister expressed concern and she seemed to keep passing out nearly unresponsive on the couch before the kids bedtime routine). Kids have been sleeping well for a while. I get varying responses from her including that she knows it’s an issue and she wants to work on herself without therapy to “I am controlling” and “I married her this way.” Not that I ever loved it, but I hate alcohol now and don't want anything to do with it. She hasn’t been doing as much of the pass out drinking lately (at least not often that I am certain of), but I do notice she seems off sometimes still, including when picking up the kids from school, which worries me. She will certainly drink very heavily if with her close friends, they all do. I feel so lost trying to navigate this with two small kids and limited family support locally. My parents and siblings are great but halfway across the country. Her parents are divorced, father is really kind but a ‘sort of functioning’ alcoholic and she has a bad relationship with her mom (pills, alcohol, mental illness possibly). My wife’s sister is nice, but has her own family to raise and has an up and down relationship with my wife. We moved to her hometown without kids for cost of living. Feels like bringing this up to friends/family/people is sabotage though I am also thinking most already know on some level. I am trying to get her to do some couples therapy with me in hopes that will help somehow? Would it? She says she doesn't trust therapists dating back to her parents divorce and thinks they manipulate. What can I do with that? Push for this therapy option so hard to puts the marriage over the edge before even getting help? Do I stay for the kids and bury my head in the sand? How do I explain to my kids when they are older if I didn't do everything I could to try to get her help?
I am reading on codependency for myself when I hear things like ‘I am controlling.’ I would not want to be that way if I am somehow trying to force a change, but I also don't want her to be so drunk all the time. Fear of her drinking keeps me from wanting to do things I would otherwise want to do. Practically, how do people deal with codependency and stop it? I don’t know if I can do detachment at all, let alone detachment staying in the same house with kids.
I am feeling the Fear, Obligation and Guilt when I want to separate. What does that mean for my truly amazing kids? They will be blindsided. I keep reading stats about kids of divorce when one parent is an alcoholic. More likely to engage in risky behavior, especially divorcing at this age. I am thinking my wife might be an example of that. I don’t understand how my kids are safer if I separate. She isn’t a bad mom either, she keeps a full time job and does a lot for the family around the house. She plans the birthday parties, does most of Christmas and makes their lives special. I couldn't imagine filing for sole custody. Heck, for what the courts would know, I might not see then all that much. Even if I could get joint custody, what does life for them look like if she drinks too much and cant help them in an emergency or even cant help them to bed? They are too small and helpless. If it was just me, I would separate and go back to my hometown. It is not though, and I love my kids more than myself. How do people handle this with kids? How do I decide to stay or go? What is the triggering event? How do you have a triggering event without it being trauma on the kids?
I am reading on codependency for myself when I hear things like ‘I am controlling.’ I would not want to be that way if I am somehow trying to force a change, but I also don't want her to be so drunk all the time. Fear of her drinking keeps me from wanting to do things I would otherwise want to do. Practically, how do people deal with codependency and stop it? I don’t know if I can do detachment at all, let alone detachment staying in the same house with kids.
I am feeling the Fear, Obligation and Guilt when I want to separate. What does that mean for my truly amazing kids? They will be blindsided. I keep reading stats about kids of divorce when one parent is an alcoholic. More likely to engage in risky behavior, especially divorcing at this age. I am thinking my wife might be an example of that. I don’t understand how my kids are safer if I separate. She isn’t a bad mom either, she keeps a full time job and does a lot for the family around the house. She plans the birthday parties, does most of Christmas and makes their lives special. I couldn't imagine filing for sole custody. Heck, for what the courts would know, I might not see then all that much. Even if I could get joint custody, what does life for them look like if she drinks too much and cant help them in an emergency or even cant help them to bed? They are too small and helpless. If it was just me, I would separate and go back to my hometown. It is not though, and I love my kids more than myself. How do people handle this with kids? How do I decide to stay or go? What is the triggering event? How do you have a triggering event without it being trauma on the kids?
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,712
Hello!
I am glad you found us and sorry for what brings you here.
Alcoholism, given enough time, destroys everything. If a person is able to recognize the direction in which they are headed, they may be able to stop before the terrible losses occur. Maybe.
You can’t force her to stop, but you can become convinced that living with an active alcoholic is far worse for your kid’s mental health than going through divorce. With that conviction will come determination to fight for their best interest and safety. That starts with a frank and difficult conversation with your wife. When you are ready, you will need to tell her that her continued alcohol use puts the kids at risk and hurts you. You will need to tell her that if she continues to drink, you will seek divorce/separation.
She is “off” when picking up the kids and you are finding hidden alcohol. This needs to be documented with photos and journals. Get a lawyer on retainer and indicate that your wife’s addiction is the cause of your separation. Seek joint custody of the children with full access to mom if she is sober (the court system uses a tracking system called SoberLink) and no access if she is not.
This can be done. You can do it. She may get help before everything explodes - love for your family is an excellent motivator! Unfortunately, some people are so alcohol-dependent and thought-twisted that they are unable to stop drinking for any of the reasons we think they should.
You are not in control of what she chooses, but you can (and should) keep your children as protected as possible from the drunken, absent mother and the resentful, controlling father stereotypes. That helps NO ONE.
Shielding her from the natural consequences of her drinking will only deepen her addiction, worsen your co-dependence and fear, and harm your innocent kids.
I am glad you found us and sorry for what brings you here.
Alcoholism, given enough time, destroys everything. If a person is able to recognize the direction in which they are headed, they may be able to stop before the terrible losses occur. Maybe.
You can’t force her to stop, but you can become convinced that living with an active alcoholic is far worse for your kid’s mental health than going through divorce. With that conviction will come determination to fight for their best interest and safety. That starts with a frank and difficult conversation with your wife. When you are ready, you will need to tell her that her continued alcohol use puts the kids at risk and hurts you. You will need to tell her that if she continues to drink, you will seek divorce/separation.
She is “off” when picking up the kids and you are finding hidden alcohol. This needs to be documented with photos and journals. Get a lawyer on retainer and indicate that your wife’s addiction is the cause of your separation. Seek joint custody of the children with full access to mom if she is sober (the court system uses a tracking system called SoberLink) and no access if she is not.
This can be done. You can do it. She may get help before everything explodes - love for your family is an excellent motivator! Unfortunately, some people are so alcohol-dependent and thought-twisted that they are unable to stop drinking for any of the reasons we think they should.
You are not in control of what she chooses, but you can (and should) keep your children as protected as possible from the drunken, absent mother and the resentful, controlling father stereotypes. That helps NO ONE.
Shielding her from the natural consequences of her drinking will only deepen her addiction, worsen your co-dependence and fear, and harm your innocent kids.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 326
Dear Friend,
I'm not going to tell you what to do, but what I did. When my children were little, like 6 and 8, my first husband was drinking heavily. I had heart-stopping moments like coming home from work - I was the main breadwinnner- and finding the kids doing all kinds of shenanigans while my husband was passed out on the couch. We went to couples therapy. I asked him if he could refrain from drinking his beer until 9 p.m., after the kids were in bed. He said no. I then did a thing. I paid for a consultation appointment with a divorce attorney. i explored what my options were - this was 30 years ago, so things have changed in terms of custody time with addicted spouses - and then I went home, and one morning after he had had a good drunkfest, I asked him, "Do you want a divorce?" He was shaken and he said, "No, of course not." I told him I had been to see a divorce attorney and that we could be divorced within months if he wanted that. He was like, "No, baby. I love you and the kids." So then I told him what I needed from him - no getting drunk while he's alone with the kids, no driving the kids while drinking, continued therapy , etc. I really played it because, truth be told, I could not afford to divorce him at that time. Thankfully, he believed me and shaped up for a long time.
What I would advise you to do is make a consultation appointment with a reputable family law firm - you pay a few hundred dollars for an hour of their time - and you tell them what is going on and find out what you would be looking at. When you have that information, you will have a clearer vision of what to do. Different states do things differently, but pretty much all of them have issues with people being drunk around their kids. I know you don't want a divorce. You want things to be normal. But only your wife can decide to stop or cut back on her drinking. You didn't make her drink and you can't stop it, but you can choose how to deal with it. If I had been able to afford it back 30 years ago - I would have had to pay spousal and child support - I would have filed for a divorce for the sake of my kids. they tell me things now as adults in their late 30s that break my heart. It's not just physical safety, it's the weird sh*t that comes out of their mouths it's their detachment and selfishness that hurts kids.
I wish you all the best in the world. You and your kids deserve better.
I'm not going to tell you what to do, but what I did. When my children were little, like 6 and 8, my first husband was drinking heavily. I had heart-stopping moments like coming home from work - I was the main breadwinnner- and finding the kids doing all kinds of shenanigans while my husband was passed out on the couch. We went to couples therapy. I asked him if he could refrain from drinking his beer until 9 p.m., after the kids were in bed. He said no. I then did a thing. I paid for a consultation appointment with a divorce attorney. i explored what my options were - this was 30 years ago, so things have changed in terms of custody time with addicted spouses - and then I went home, and one morning after he had had a good drunkfest, I asked him, "Do you want a divorce?" He was shaken and he said, "No, of course not." I told him I had been to see a divorce attorney and that we could be divorced within months if he wanted that. He was like, "No, baby. I love you and the kids." So then I told him what I needed from him - no getting drunk while he's alone with the kids, no driving the kids while drinking, continued therapy , etc. I really played it because, truth be told, I could not afford to divorce him at that time. Thankfully, he believed me and shaped up for a long time.
What I would advise you to do is make a consultation appointment with a reputable family law firm - you pay a few hundred dollars for an hour of their time - and you tell them what is going on and find out what you would be looking at. When you have that information, you will have a clearer vision of what to do. Different states do things differently, but pretty much all of them have issues with people being drunk around their kids. I know you don't want a divorce. You want things to be normal. But only your wife can decide to stop or cut back on her drinking. You didn't make her drink and you can't stop it, but you can choose how to deal with it. If I had been able to afford it back 30 years ago - I would have had to pay spousal and child support - I would have filed for a divorce for the sake of my kids. they tell me things now as adults in their late 30s that break my heart. It's not just physical safety, it's the weird sh*t that comes out of their mouths it's their detachment and selfishness that hurts kids.
I wish you all the best in the world. You and your kids deserve better.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,949
Do I stay for the kids and bury my head in the sand?
Protect the minor children, not the Alcoholic adult!
Your rational mind knows that her seeming "off" is because she is drinking. Your rational mind knows that you would NEVER leave your children in the care/driving of a babysitter whom you even remotely suspected of drinking on the job. Your rational mind knows that your kids know something is off! Do not fool yourself, I knew something was "wrong" in our family since 1st grade.
Denial and catastrophizing can keep you really stuck. You can't have all the answers about how it will shake down for your children. You can only be the sober parent making the rational choices.
But here's a "what if" I've always pondered: my mother stayed with our A Father, lived in denial, was a raging codependent and enabler, and to this day does not have a genuine relationship with any of her kids. All 3 of my A brothers became alcoholics. If she had protected us from the insanity of the alcoholism and the denial, if she had openly and honestly named it: alcoholism, and talked to us openly about it and explained it is an addiction, explained we need to have certain boundaries in place for safety but it doesn't mean Dad doesn't love us or that we can't love him - it just means this is the way we have to do things in our family etc...might my brothers have avoided alcoholism? I'll never know.
Meanwhile my Dad chose sobriety and AA and recovered after a 25+ year drinking career, he really blossomed, made amends where he could, changed as a person, and I had a very close and authentic relationship with him before he died...because he snapped out of denial and took ownership for his behavior...and Mom, well she just kept trying to control everything and everybody and enabled my brothers drinking in ways both direct and indirect and well, she did as much damage to all of us as Dad's drinking.
I feel so lost trying to navigate this with two small kids and limited family support locally. My parents and siblings are great but halfway across the country.
Oh you're definitely going to need support! Try AlAnon. Get a one on one counselor with experience in addiction in families (no marriage counseling when one partner is in active addiction - it's 100% pointless), start reading books about how to talk to kids about it. Often I just need help with language, like reading a script, to help open up a difficult topic. They will need your stalwart support, they will need to know that you are sober, in charge, and making the best decisions without rancor that you can with safety first. They need to know you are also sometimes confused and struggling and while you may not have the answers to the future you are there for them whenever they feel hurt, confused, angry etc.
Feels like bringing this up to friends/family/people is sabotage though I am also thinking most already know on some level.
It's often the shame that keeps us from being honest about what is happening.
When you speak to people who have long time recovery from alcoholism they will tell you that the shame you're carrying is an A#1 recruit for Team Alcohol. Team A keeps scoring points as long as you live in shame and denial.
Choose your support counselors/friends wisely because yes some people will not be helpful. AlAnon is a good start, or your closest friend whom you know you can trust. Addiction THRIVES in secrecy and kids pick up very quickly that whatever is going on is SO SHAMEFUL that we cannot even speak about it or ask about it or we might even be lied to if we ask a direct question about it! All of that is why you have to put your kids and their mental health first. She's an adult, she is actively drinking. Just because 40% of the time she "seems ok" and functioning is only a lucky break right now. Alcoholics are not in control of the safety of children. They cannot control their drinking, and drunk people make very bad choices and get in all kinds of accidents all the time.
All of this is quite painful at first. Baby steps will get you going. The terror of confronting her with the idea that things need to change will dissipate if you find the right language and frame of mind to approach her. Just keep reading around here and reading up on alcoholism so you're prepared for the likely performative outrage, resentment, and arguing she will employ. Keep bringing the facts, especially about the kids. Be ready for her negotiation tactics where nothing changes (except maybe the sneakiness gets more clever for a bit) and it's all talk talk.
When you have surrounded yourself with strong support and a plan for your own recovery from this insanity you will feel so much better and stronger.
Big hugs and a shot of courage.
Peace,
B
Protect the minor children, not the Alcoholic adult!
Your rational mind knows that her seeming "off" is because she is drinking. Your rational mind knows that you would NEVER leave your children in the care/driving of a babysitter whom you even remotely suspected of drinking on the job. Your rational mind knows that your kids know something is off! Do not fool yourself, I knew something was "wrong" in our family since 1st grade.
Denial and catastrophizing can keep you really stuck. You can't have all the answers about how it will shake down for your children. You can only be the sober parent making the rational choices.
But here's a "what if" I've always pondered: my mother stayed with our A Father, lived in denial, was a raging codependent and enabler, and to this day does not have a genuine relationship with any of her kids. All 3 of my A brothers became alcoholics. If she had protected us from the insanity of the alcoholism and the denial, if she had openly and honestly named it: alcoholism, and talked to us openly about it and explained it is an addiction, explained we need to have certain boundaries in place for safety but it doesn't mean Dad doesn't love us or that we can't love him - it just means this is the way we have to do things in our family etc...might my brothers have avoided alcoholism? I'll never know.
Meanwhile my Dad chose sobriety and AA and recovered after a 25+ year drinking career, he really blossomed, made amends where he could, changed as a person, and I had a very close and authentic relationship with him before he died...because he snapped out of denial and took ownership for his behavior...and Mom, well she just kept trying to control everything and everybody and enabled my brothers drinking in ways both direct and indirect and well, she did as much damage to all of us as Dad's drinking.
I feel so lost trying to navigate this with two small kids and limited family support locally. My parents and siblings are great but halfway across the country.
Oh you're definitely going to need support! Try AlAnon. Get a one on one counselor with experience in addiction in families (no marriage counseling when one partner is in active addiction - it's 100% pointless), start reading books about how to talk to kids about it. Often I just need help with language, like reading a script, to help open up a difficult topic. They will need your stalwart support, they will need to know that you are sober, in charge, and making the best decisions without rancor that you can with safety first. They need to know you are also sometimes confused and struggling and while you may not have the answers to the future you are there for them whenever they feel hurt, confused, angry etc.
Feels like bringing this up to friends/family/people is sabotage though I am also thinking most already know on some level.
It's often the shame that keeps us from being honest about what is happening.
When you speak to people who have long time recovery from alcoholism they will tell you that the shame you're carrying is an A#1 recruit for Team Alcohol. Team A keeps scoring points as long as you live in shame and denial.
Choose your support counselors/friends wisely because yes some people will not be helpful. AlAnon is a good start, or your closest friend whom you know you can trust. Addiction THRIVES in secrecy and kids pick up very quickly that whatever is going on is SO SHAMEFUL that we cannot even speak about it or ask about it or we might even be lied to if we ask a direct question about it! All of that is why you have to put your kids and their mental health first. She's an adult, she is actively drinking. Just because 40% of the time she "seems ok" and functioning is only a lucky break right now. Alcoholics are not in control of the safety of children. They cannot control their drinking, and drunk people make very bad choices and get in all kinds of accidents all the time.
All of this is quite painful at first. Baby steps will get you going. The terror of confronting her with the idea that things need to change will dissipate if you find the right language and frame of mind to approach her. Just keep reading around here and reading up on alcoholism so you're prepared for the likely performative outrage, resentment, and arguing she will employ. Keep bringing the facts, especially about the kids. Be ready for her negotiation tactics where nothing changes (except maybe the sneakiness gets more clever for a bit) and it's all talk talk.
When you have surrounded yourself with strong support and a plan for your own recovery from this insanity you will feel so much better and stronger.
Big hugs and a shot of courage.
Peace,
B
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,735
Originally Posted by F4th3r0f2 
How do I explain to my kids when they are older if I didn't do everything I could to try to get her help?
I am reading on codependency for myself when I hear things like ‘I am controlling.’ I would not want to be that way if I am somehow trying to force a change, but I also don't want her to be so drunk all the time. Fear of her drinking keeps me from wanting to do things I would otherwise want to do. Practically, how do people deal with codependency and stop it? I don’t know if I can do detachment at all, let alone detachment staying in the same house with kids.
I am reading on codependency for myself when I hear things like ‘I am controlling.’ I would not want to be that way if I am somehow trying to force a change, but I also don't want her to be so drunk all the time. Fear of her drinking keeps me from wanting to do things I would otherwise want to do. Practically, how do people deal with codependency and stop it? I don’t know if I can do detachment at all, let alone detachment staying in the same house with kids.
‘I am controlling.’
I would not want to be that way if I am somehow trying to force a change
but I also don't want her to be so drunk all the time.
You have a lot of stuff going on! This in particular stuck out. You can't really not be controlling when you add the "but" in there, you know what I mean? You are either trying to control her behaviour or you aren't, there isn't really a gray area there.
What you can control is yourself and control what you want to do and what you are willing to live with. You also control what your boundaries are.
As for separation, custody etc, you really need a consultation with a lawyer, to find out what the guidelines are in your area. Doesn't mean you ever have to do anything with that information, but knowledge is power.
As for her driving the kids, I think you know deep down she is driving impaired. My Father was an alcoholic, my Mother didn't drive but we were never in the car without her (so I assume he was sober), we also took a lot of taxis with her. Where she went, we went.
If you do nothing else, I hope you will not allow her to drive your kids anywhere.
It's a horrible position to be in. Kids growing up in a household with alcoholic dysfunction - it can have far reaching consequences for them. Just as a tiny example, they will grow up thinking that if someone passes out drunk on the sofa in the evening, that's not all that abnormal. If you multiply that by all the other things that go on, well you get the picture.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,457
"How do I explain to my kids when they are older if I didn't do everything I could to try to get her help?"
How will you explain to them when they are older that you put the alcoholic's feelings and wants ahead of their basic need for at least one safe, stable and healthy parent?
How will you explain to them when they are older that you put the alcoholic's feelings and wants ahead of their basic need for at least one safe, stable and healthy parent?
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