wellthen

I had an appointment with a new therapist today, where I summarized some of the events in my marriage that have made me strongly consider leaving H.

She had me make a list (and I've posted some of the things here) then read it aloud. And I realized something.

I keep waiting for something really bad to happen. But I realized today that really bad things actually have happened, and my distress tolerance has just grown with time. I keep convincing myself it's not so bad, and other people have it worse (and they do--that part is true). But what scares me is, I'm not exactly sure what my limits are. Like, if he ever physically hurt my kids for sure I'd leave. But beyond that, I couldn't think of a single thing. Every situation I ever thought would be a dealbreaker I've stayed through.

I'm not sure what that means for me now or how to fix that. But I think it's an important first step for me. Anyway, just wanted to share with people who might understand.

FWN

What a wonderful and profound ah ha moment you had. I had the exact. Same. One. I swear I have a post on here if exactly this epiphany!

For me this moment was all part of the process of me getting closer to leaving. Once I started to have these moments I never could look at the relationship the same again. And I came here not wanting to leave!!!!

who wants a marriage that "could be worse"? Who wants to show their kids they should tolerate misery, one person doing what they want while the other just endures it. Not me. I wanted better for me and for my kids and for their future relationships.

wellthen

That is really good to hear, FWN. I, too, came here thinking someone would talk me out of leaving.

Another realization I had today: I keep thinking (and telling him) if he does one more thing...

Except, I know there is a lot I do not know. There have been so many secrets and so many lies. I basically have to assume there has been "one more thing" and probably many more things.

You are spot on about the one spouse doing what he wants and the other enduring it. My girls are getting into their early teens. They are watching. They need to know this isn't okay.

trailmix

I totally understand this and I have seen it posted here before. Why do we wait? Well, for one thing it's actually easier. It's a lot easier to have something happen that infuriates you, say he slapped your child for no reason. You see red, you all pack up a few clothes and leave in high dungeon, slamming the door behind you. Done.

He has now done the unforgivable.

This alleviates a lot of the hurt and indecision of leaving. You don't have to feel guilty either. Problem is, he already has crossed lines. What man spends a week in mixed company on a cocaine high.

This is the same thing you are waiting for. Replace his behaviour and the effect on your Daughter with a slap to the head. How is that different?

Yes, your tolerance will grow and grow. Some people never leave. By the time they might be ready to they are so low in self worth and so mentally and emotionally exhausted it just seems like too much effort. This is the elusive "rock bottom" question, you won't know what your rock bottom is until you have already been through it and have probably left.

Boundaries. Just because he's already crossed many of yours does not mean you can't instigate your boundary now.

JanuaryStrlight

This one resonates with me. My AH has officially done the unthinkable on a few occasions now and here I am, still tolerating pretty much anything and everything. Your tolerance really does build up over time--it's funny how an alcoholic builds up tolerance to alcohol, while their family builds up tolerance to the effects of their drinking.

Amen to one doing what he wants while the other just endures it. <3

Lots of love. <3

Seren

It is often said that addicts and alcoholics won't stop drinking unless and until the pain caused by their drinking is greater than the pain they are avoiding by drinking.

I'm not suggesting staying or going, but what pain are *you* avoiding by staying? Here, we seem to endure a lot to avoid something else we think will be more painful (living alone, raising children alone).

wellthen

good question. I think hurting people—him, and my kids.

FWN

I felt the same way and it kept me from leaving for a while. But then I realized pain was inevitable. I think it was trail mix who said to me "short term pain for long term gain" or a little pain now to leave or long slow agonizing pain for everyone if you stay. Either way there's pain. For me, leaving opened the door to finding happiness and peace and was worth the short term pain it took to take that step to go.

wellthen

I think I've also been really susceptible to guilt trips and manipulation. For example, he told me once that one of the reasons he confessed the cocaine use was so he could've his authentic self in our marriage. Then there were discussions of how I wasn't accepting the real him (and that felt kinda $hitty). It's hard for me to see things for what they are in the moment sometimes. I'm no dummy, but I tend to invalidate my own feelings and also try to see the best in people. In other words, I think the idea that if I were a better wife, I'd xyz is part of how I got to a place of accepting so much.

trailmix

I think anyone can say that. If I were a better person I would try harder to xyz (be more patient, less judgemental, spend more time with family - whatever the case may be).

There is no harm in examining your motives, maybe work on issues you think you would like to change etc etc. We all do that. It's a good thing.

The problem arises when you try to mold yourself in to someone you are not, for the benefit of someone else (heck even for your own benefit).

Your AH is not wrong, you don't accept him just the way he is. He doesn't have a problem with his drinking and other drugs problem, you do.

So what do you do with that? You only have two choices. You are either able to accept him just the way he is, or you aren't. If you aren't able to you aren't doing yourself or him any favours. Or you can continue to try to mold yourself to how he thinks you should be. By the way, there is no reason to feel guilty for just being yourself.

That is all an aside to his abusive behaviour though.

Noelaus3

I like the Al-Anon description of accepting the unacceptable. I realized I’d been doing that for a really long time and I really questioned how low I could go with this. I also realized he was the only toxic person in my life. My friends and family are great! I wouldn’t have a person like him in my life otherwise. Truthfully I don’t like him very much. I don’t think he’s a good person either. Take away the alcohol and he’d still have big personality problems. I also realized he’d been abusing alcohol so long that I’m pretty sure he has brain damage. He forgets stuff and is more chaotic as time goes on. So when he comes up with some nonsense or drama I put it down to that and don’t buy into it anymore. As one of my good friends says: what a waste.

Maybe I’m not a good wife but I know that I’m a good parent and getting him out of the house was the best thing I could do for my boys.

Seren

I was dating a man several years ago before I met my late husband. He was a nice enough man who wasn't abusive or unkind in any way. After dating for several weeks, I realized that he simply was not someone I could spend my life with. Yet, I persisted in dating him because I knew he cared far more for me than I did for him, and I did not want to hurt him. Yet day-by-day, week-by-week, I was becoming more miserable, and I continued to suppress my own misery for his sake. It hurt me to think of hurting someone else. I was getting headaches and stomach aches, and I finally realized I was just going to have to put my big girl pants on and end the relationship. It was hard, and he was very hurt. I was sad for a while, but nowhere near as stressed as I had been. The headaches and stomach aches stopped. Although my ending the relationship with him did hurt him, it allowed him to find someone else who would care for him in the same way he cared for them.

So, it may be true that if you leave, your husband would be hurt. But really, has he considered your feelings in any of this? It doesn't seem as though he has based on your descriptions of his abuse.

I don't have children, so I can't offer any personal experience. But you have said that your children are becoming anxious that their father is out all night etc. They are probably picking up on your anxiousness as well. Is that long, steady condition of high alert better than their initial sadness followed by creating an environment that will ultimately lead to their happiness and health?

wellthen

He and I talked today, a bit about separating and also about some other things. It's weird. I left the conversation hopeful in some ways. He seems to be all about transparency now. And yet...

One thing that came out was he mentioned the last time he did cocaine...which was after he told me he'd stop doing it. Ugh, I remember telling our marriage counselor that the way he acted that night was pretty much ideal in terms of balancing our needs. He was going out, he told me exactly when he'd be home (and followed through). He didn't drive and came home not completely blitzed. Kind of ironic that the night I used as an example of a "good night" for so long, he did drugs after he said he wouldn't and kept that from me.

He's trying to act like he promised that after the night I'm talking about, but he is wrong. I don't know why I'm surprised at this point.

trailmix

He is all about transparency except when it's helpful to lie.

The surprise you feel is that you are still trusting him, you actually can't. He lies to you.

I don't know why he's suddenly confessing all, could be a last ditch effort to get back in to your good books, but nothing has actually changed.

ToughChoices

This is crazy-making. Don't fall for it. The LIFE of someone in recovery speaks for itself - no need for long, lying conversations about how everyone else mis-remembers the truth. Talk does not result in change. Only action does. I'm sorry that he is treating you this way.

You deserve a feast, and you are settling for 3-day-old scraps of love. Why?

wellthen

It's absolutely crazy-making. I leave our conversations feeling like the bad guy, not because he says that directly but because he's so level-headed and (nowadays) contrite that I end up feeling like paranoid lunatic.

I read some of our earlier posts, ToughChoices, and see a lot of myself in them. Your post about life on the other side gave me hope.

trailmix

One other thing to maybe consider, aside from you taking his words to heart (which is maybe not a great idea just yet) is the past.

He can apologize and be contrite as much as he likes, but that past still has to be dealt with. How does he do that? Have you broached the subject?

The cocaine week away, have you asked him about that, do you want to know? In order for you to trust him, he would need to come clean on all his misdeeds, until YOU are satisfied - yes, not him, you.

What is the goal here, do you even want to be married to him anymore?

Bernadette

From TC: This is crazy-making. Don't fall for it. The LIFE of someone in recovery speaks for itself - no need for long, lying conversations about how everyone else mis-remembers the truth. Talk does not result in change. Only action does. I'm sorry that he is treating you this way.
Yes! I just want to reinforce what Tough Choices posted above. Real recovery is a recognizable solid change in a person. the rest is just

So much great wisdom being shared here on this thread.

wellthen I'm sorry you're going through all this...it's so beyond stressful, it becomes just the water you're swimming in. We can forget that we are free.

Recognizing this awakening you're describing, this realization, that you have slowly and over time lowered the bar and become a person who is tolerating unacceptable things was the first step for me too, for many of us it seems, in realizing, hey wait a minute! What about my standards, what about my peace of mind, quality of life, what about the lessons imparted to my children who will learn what they live!!?

The past is gone, you are free in this moment.

Peace,
B

wellthen

At a minimum, I think I need to separate for a while. But then I keep diminishing and invalidating my own experience. That's part of my posting, I thnk. I want to be reminded of the likelihood this will work out well if I stay (which is very low).

He says he's open to rehashing the past and welcomes the opportunity. But when I start to "go there," he is very quick to make excuses (like he hadn't explicitly agreed to quit cocaine before he did it, or he didn't cut back to drinking 2 drinks back in June like he said he would because I didn't give him any indication it'd be helpful. Then he said he actually did cut back to two, and I said, what about all those weekend days you started at 10 a.m.?). He also acts like it'd be impossible for him to prove he told the truth related to many of the incidents in question, asking me what I propose as a solution to that.

(I dunno, maybe you don't act like an a$$hole in the first place?)

He swears there are no more bombshells, but I don't believe him. There are some things I'm not sure I want to know.

I'm frustrated with myself. I think I need to take what you said earlier to heart. Rather that running myself in circles trying to figure this stuff out (which is probably a stalling tactic), I just need to put on my big girl undies, create some space and see how I feel. I have a very cute apartment on hold in a nice building that I will miss out on if I don't sign the lease soon. Maybe I'll go see it again this weekend and just try to envision happier times.

trailmix

^^^^ This. Even his half-ass confessions are ridiculous, he talks in non-speak (also called word salad).

Dandylion (member here is is taking a break) would often say it's 'quacking' - when he speaks, just imagine a duck quacking, because that's what it is.

You ask him a question, he lies, you ask him to clarify something, he puts it back on you, how do YOU propose he do - whatever. He didn't cut back to 2 drinks because YOU didn't give him any indication it would be helpful.

This is HIS issue and you have been clear on what he needs to do (stop drinking and drugging) and maybe he needs to put on his big boy hat and take care of that and leave you out of it. You aren't his Mother, he is a grown man and should be able to do this himself.

You know, when you fear taking that next step, it can be a good idea to also realize nothing is written in stone. When you pack up the U-Haul and move to the cute apartment, that's all you are doing is moving. You will need time and space to come to your decisions.