FWN

My kids never saw the full extent of what was going on and I did a pretty good job of shielding them from my exAH's drinking when we lived together up until 2+ years ago. I believe now though that the divorce and the lack of information I've given my exceptionally gifted (high IQ and also a person who has high levels of empathy and emotional awareness - I've worked on this with him since he was little as I do all of my children, anyway). Sometimes when I walk into a room he just shuts down, his mood completely shifts and it's like his whole world sucks. There have been several occasions where I've seen it happen before my eyes, he's happy enjoying himself with my family or whatever and them I show up and the light goes out of his eyes and it's like he's angry at the world. This is absolutely not all the time but it happens enough that I've taken note and feel I need to address some things with him. Take my word for it here, he blames me for the divorce and that his dad doesn't live with us and that he rarely sees or talks to his dad. I know in the past his dad has likely all but said those words, heck he's probably said those words. At this point all I tell the kids is that 'dads not feeling well' and that's why we don't see or talk to him.

His dad's an alcoholic who also has spiraled into depression, he's a shell of his former self. Doesn't work, about to move 2.5 hours away to live in a trailer on his dads land (this was a man who was top of his class in college, extremely high IQ, engineer, ran a $70+MM company and is now unemployed and has alcoholic neuropathy in his legs and feet and is in constant pain and walks with a cane and he's 36 years old). He's told me he doesn't think the kids will care if he moves or that it'll even matter, he hasn't had them over night since August of 2021 which was before he relapsed and started drinking again and things just went super downhill from there.

I'd planned on trying to find the proper words to explain any of this to my 10 year old but my brother in law thinks this is a terrible idea, to poison my 10 year olds mind with this information about his dad that he's not mature enough to process. I just wanted to somehow make it clear that the reason why we don't live with him anymore is that he's made these choices (to drink and not to seek help) that led to poor behavior and made it no longer possible for us to be married and live under the same roof and that the reason why he doesn't see his dad anymore is because he's still drinking and making poor choices and not seeking help. I just feel like if my son has more information he won't blame me/hate me and it won't mess up my relationship with him because he subconsciously hates me for tearing our family apart.

I don't know. What's appropriate to say to him that isn't going to damage him more than he already is and that will help his and my relationship grow in a positive direction? I'm flying blind here and I need some guidance.

trailmix

I'll just say this straight. Your brother in law is wrong and you are right. There, now that's out of the way!

At 10 your Son should be able to understand alcoholism. Although we, as adults, might find it hard to wrap our heads around (if we didn't grow up with it), I know for me, we always knew my Dad was an alcoholic. We may not have known why or how it happened or even what alcoholism actually was, but we knew why he behaved the way he did.

Discussion about addiction/alcoholism is really important I think.

I've mentioned before that trying to keep your children out of that conversation can end up damaging your relationship with them (we see it here from time to time of course). There is that whole compassion toward the alcoholic "thing" that can be misplaced. Poor Dad has no one to look after him now. Also, now that he is getting further along in his alcoholism - your Son sees that and wonders why you abandoned the man!

Not talking about it doesn't erase it from the child's life.

It will not only help your relationship with him (to discuss alcoholism with him) it will help to answer his own questions and also give him good knowledge that he needs to have.

I didn't find many books that seemed overly helpful but I'm sure there are some! This one might be a good place to start and you can always read the sample first: An Elephant In the Living Room The Children's Book

I also found this article:

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-to...ddiction-66633

Sueby

Is he going to any type of counselling? Are you seeing a counsellor? If not, I really think this would be best addressed with a professional who is trained to help kids through times like this. Discussing addictions with him would also be better addressed professionally. It hasn’t been that long since you’ve broken up, so everything is still new and raw for everyone, you’re all still feeling your way around trying to find a new normal.

I hesitate to say this, but if your only consideration in having this conversation with your son is so that he doesn’t “hate” you, trying to shift his anger onto his dad will backfire. Which won’t be your intention, but you’re still angry/hurt and it will be very difficult for that to not come out. Remember, his relationship with his dad was not the same one you had, you’re both coming from different places when trying to sort out feelings.

If you’re sure that having this discussion is for the best, then please try just to let him talk without telling your story or side. Let him know he can come to talk with you and you won’t be angry no matter what he says. Let him lead the conversation, with you listening and keeping your responses positive and neutral so he’s encouraged to open up to you about how he feels. Your issues with your ex are none of his business, he’s just a kid, keep those conversations with your friends and family so you don’t burden him with your anger and pain. If you can’t do that, you’re probably not in a place to have any conversations about his dad as it may make matters worse.

Take care and try and do things with the kids that will pull everyone together, but also take your collective minds off what’s happening for a little while. I sorry you all are going through this 💕💕.

Nd819

I'm going to preface this by saying I am not a child therapist, I don't really know if this is the right thing, but my gut says the best course of action is honesty. I believe it is so hard on kids when they are left to try and make sense of what's going without the facts. Your son needs to understand why his dad isn't around physically or emotionally otherwise he may start to blame himself and wonder why his dad doesn't love him. I think at 10 you can have simple conversations about alcoholism and it's effects, I also think you can do this without bashing his dad but being honest about the situation. I feel like kids can accept hard truths, it's what they imagine in their minds which is usually much worse. I've had to have many conversations with my kids about their dad's drinking, granted they are older, I probably should have started the conversations earlier. I've also tried to explain how addiction works and why it's so hard to break. I've also had to explain that genetically they are probably predisposed to a higher incidence of alcoholism for themselves. It really does all just suck.

mylifeismine

I would say counseling is needed, especially because he is bright & empathetic.
Are there any places near you that specialize in helping the whole family with
recovery? For example, there is a center in Houston called The Council on
Recovery and they had "camps" for kids and their expertise in teaching/counseling kids
at their cognitive and emotional level about addiction and how it
works was just amazing. When I observed some of the work the kids had
produced, it made my heart ache to think how all kids should have access to
this kind of life changing information/counseling.

PeacefulWater12

Your brother in law is wrong. His thinking is old fashioned and adds to the toxicity and damage created. You are right to be open with your son.

Children see and hear and feel what is going on. They don't have the names for it but they know. So by being honest you are giving him the vocabulary to express it.

I grew up in alcoholism. Those around me didn't speak of it or acknowledge it. Pretended it wasn't happening. This compounded the damage to myself and my siblings.

A relative of mine has a young child in a similar situation and there is a group at school that the child takes part in with children who have experienced the same, it does seem to help.

SmallButMighty

FWN, have you asked your son why he seems to get dark when you enter the room? Kids, especially the "over-thinking" kind, may have talked themselves into any number of misguided scenarios with in their own heads... maybe even things that don't have to do with what we THINK is bothering them. Perhaps the next time it happens and your other children have responsible adults to care for them, you can take your eldest son for some ice cream and a little heart to heart chat?

I agree with the others that being honest and not hiding truths is best. IF that is something your son wants to talk about. I caused damage to my own children and our relationships by THINKING that I had done the right thing by shielding them from truths I didn't think they could or should have to understand. Making excuses for their father , heck, sometimes I out right lied, was the wrong thing for me to do. I perpetuated a generational cycle of dysfunction by doing so. BUT, then, when I did start talking about it, I think I OVER shared as well. There's a fine line. (However, my kids were much older than yours when I regrettably felt the need to j.a.d.e. about certain situations. *sigh* ) Parenting is so damn hard.

Keep doing what you've been doing FWN, you are a present and caring parent, you are doing a great job. Make sure you are taking care of YOU too please. No one can draw from an empty well. *hugs*

velma929

My heart breaks for you and your son. There are a lot of things besides alcoholism where dealing with the issue is 'an inside job.' If your husband was a diabetic, or had depression, (can't think of any examples right now) it would still be his responsibility to watch his diet, inject the insulin, take his meds, get counseling.

If there is a speck of truth to it, maybe "I loved your dad a lot, so much that I can't watch him hurt himself. Us being there won't change it, he has to do this himself" would work.

sage1969

I've found that being honest with my children is a better way to go, and we've been through many difficult to discuss situations as as a family. Therapy and Alateen are also good suggestions, but kind honesty is important. Thinking back on my words along with what I modeled for my children, that was what they remembered when faced with the conflicting words and actions of their addicted parent, and though I made mistakes as all parents do, my teens come to me when they are going through tough things because they can trust me to be honest with them.

Another thing to consider is that if your son is as bright as you say, he's probably intellectually and possibly emotionally precocious and going through the tweens is a tough age. He does actually really need you, even if he behaves in a hostile way, and not having his other parent available at all is probably pretty hard on him.

So, using honesty and being consistent between your own words and actions so that he sees you as a constant in his day to day life is the way to go.

firecricket

I have a 7 year old who has been shielded also and she seemed to be pretty confused by what was going on. I purchased a book on Amazon called "Addie's Mom Isn't Home Anymore" - it seemed to help, then I asked if she had any questions. I also purchased "Floating Away: A Book to Help Children Understand Addiction" but that one seemed to be too advanced for her. Maybe you can find something for your son.

dandylion

FWN.......I am going to take a view that is divergent from most others, I think.
First of all.....I think that your brother-in-law makes a good point.....that too many details may be doing more harm and give fuel for his misinterpretation or be too complex for his age to take on.
I am not suggestion, at all, to be dishonest. I don't think you have been dishonest, at all--by the way.

I fervently believe that, this is a situation where the wisest action to take is to get help and advice with this from a trained child therapist.
It is best to not be guessing what is going on inside of his mind. Of course, it is o.k. for him to ask questions, if he wants to---but, I think that the answers should be given in age appropriate wording.
I am quite sure that you would not want to do more harm than good.
After all, this situation sounds like there are more subtleties and nuances than can be described and addressed on a forum, completely and accurately.
I believe that a trained therapist who can see and talk to the child and talk with you, as well, is a much better choice to guide you.

I can think of no better time to aggressively seek the help of trained professionals, than when a child's mental health is at stake..

In addition, I think that for y our sake, and your fear that your child may be blaming/hating you, that you can get some guidance from a psychologist, as well.

It is my guess that he doesn't actually "hate" either of you----but, he may be having confusing emotions surrounding this situation. There may be even other factors at play that can be explored by a professional. I don't know the child's age, but if pre-adolescence or actual adolescence is at play---that, alone, can bring about changes in a child's outward behavior----totally separate from the one discussed here..

Please, don't try to go this alone. It is too complicated and too hard.

dandylion

FWN...LOL....I just noticed that your title said "10 year old son". I totally missed that I am sorry.

FWN

Thank you everyone for your responses, they have been helpful so far. Let me be clear, I have never, not a single time said a bad word about their dad to those kids even at the worst. I have more compassion and empathy for that man than I probably should for everything that I have gone through with him. But honestly I feel like he is my fourth child and that is something I struggle with too (another conversation for another day ha).

I have taken my son to a professional, that professional said he thought he was a really good kid and did not think he had any real issues to discuss……

I am just looking for the right age appropriate words to explain the situation to my son so I am not lying to him and so that we can have trust in that way together. Otherwise I think he is making up his own stories in his head based on very limited information that he has observed himself.

I definitely do not want to give him too many details, that is not my plan. But I need to help direct the story in his head and those are the words I am struggling to find.

dandylion

FWN.......Honestly, I do not feel confident to give you "words to say". I do not know your child at all. Even though I have taken lots of psychology courses, I do not feel competent.
Your child is a unique person, and I am not thinking that one size fits all.
If I were in your situation----which I am not...lol-----I would get a second opinion. This is commonly done in all areas of medicine and mental health communities.
I am assuming that the first person was/is a specialist in Child Psychology? This is not a situation where you want a generalist.
How long ago, was that?
10 years is an age when the internal changes in a child can be beginning rather rapidly.

A child psychologist can guide you to the exact words that you are asking for.

By the way, and this is a bit off topic for what you are asking, right now. But, may be good general info. for you, going forward.
There are a number of books that are written for Mothers who are raising sons, alone.
I saw them on amazon.com in the book section.
You would need to read the critiques for each book, though---as some of them are written from a religious/spiritual vibe---and, others are not.
lol....boys and girls are not exactly the same.......lol----who knew?

trailmix

I understand that you don't want to say anything bad about your ex husband, that leads to all sorts of other problems I'm sure! However, I was thinking that your Son understanding alcoholism (in an age appropriate way) would be helpful to him. If he in fact is bearing a grudge about his Dad leaving, he may just want to know why. Maybe that's a starting point? Asking him what he thinks, does he know why Dad lives somewhere else now.

I understand everyone's advice to seek counselling, I think it's a good idea and guidance is always helpful - but I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of not making a huge issue about something that, while huge, you are more than capable of discussing with him. I know you understand addiction at this point and with some help with a book or online programs, perhaps you can decide if you think him talking to a professional again would be helpful.

The above may have gotten your BIL's back up - and I see why. It makes it all about your ex Husband's poor choices. There is a blame factor in that wording. While that may well be true! I think it's important that your Son come to his own conclusions, with your guidance and lots of discussion, of course. That is why I was thinking a more technical (age appropriate) discussion about alcoholism might be helpful?

Anyway, just some thoughts.

trailmix

Oh and I did just find the National association for children of alcoholics, probably a lot of good info there:

https://nacoa.org/families/just-4-kids/

Jessica38

From my experience with gifted kiddos, they are often highly sensitive to their environment. You could have this talk with your son to get it out in the open, but in all likelihood, he already knows most of it. And he may still blame you for tearing apart the family. The real work here is letting go of the need to control his emotions. He’s allowed to be pissed that his family is torn apart. He’s allowed to miss his dad and having his dad under the same roof. He’s allowed to (correctly) identify YOU as the one who took action (you had no other choice).

Look at it this way: you did such a good job protecting those kids and making their lives so good, despite living with a raging alcoholic, that your son genuinely misses having his alcoholic father in his daily life.

While you can’t control his emotions surrounding the loss of his father, you CAN control the example that you set for him. You’re showing him how to have boundaries and why they are very important, even when they are extremely difficult and painful. You’re showing him that you value yourself and your children enough to not allow active addiction in your home. You’re showing him that alcoholism destroys the family unit.

These are all very important things for your son to know, as the son of an alcoholic.

ToughChoices

I told my 5 year-old, empathetic, gifted son that his father could not live with us because he had an illness called alcoholism, a chronic disease that makes people physically and emotionally miserable.

I told him that alcoholism is not an illness that ANYONE would choose to have, but once it develops a person must take life-long, often quite difficult, steps to continually treat it. Otherwise they hurt more and more.

I told him that many alcoholics recover, but there is nothing that kids or parents or jobs can do to force them to get better. It is outside of our abilities.

I told him that alcoholism was not my son’s fault, and it wasn’t his responsibility. However, living with an active alcoholic may make the entire family sick in different ways. It isn’t safe. For us to survive, we had to let go.

My ex-husband loved our son, but he could not manage to successfully treat his disease. Tragically, he died alone, at 42, surrounded by empty bottles (though my son doesn’t know these details).

The loss of his father broke his heart, but I think that knowing the truth about the disease helped him curb some anger and blaming into empathy for an alcoholic’s struggle.

In my opinion, it is healthier for a child to blame a disease state instead of a struggling addict’s soul. Wording the explanation in this way also alleviated some of my (understandable but incorrect) desire to blame my ex for the loss of our family. It didn’t glorify me, and it didn’t demonize my ex.

My son is now 17 and has his own, difficult emotions about the loss of his father. He is entitled to those emotions, but when we speak of his father it is always of a kind remembrance, a funny story, an interesting personality quirk, etc…He knows that his dad, even with all his struggles, loved him.

I hope that is helpful for you.
Take care,
TC

PrettyViolets

I finally explained things to my son when he was 10 years old and to my daughter when she was 9 years old. But I went about it from this perspective that my child was 50% of each of us. So if I was going to talk about the 50% of my husband--the addiction, the alcoholism, then I had to talk about the 50% of myself and my own imperfections, addictions, personal stuff. Believe me that I wanted the truth to come out when we took my son to a therapist when he was 8 years old. It ended up getting manipulated. My husband was constantly monitoring what was being discussed in therapy. My son barely would speak or talk in therapy.
The reality though is when you do talk about the father of your child is that it is good to give the father of your child some insight about the talk and that it is on his terms if he wants to discuss the issue with his child. The other reality is that if the father of your child is upset about you discussing this topic, I found that I had to stand up for myself and let my husband know that if he was really over this addiction that he would be able to talk about it. I went through too much hell and crazy things for any dude in the universe to tell me to just get over it and not discuss what really happened.
My kids were very young when their father kept relapsing. I felt like I was on eggshells keeping this secret as to why we were living in different places or at the inlaws. When he was 10 years old, I felt he needed to hear the truth--not every truth about how his father is a terrible person who drank but the truth about the things that his father did well and what the addiction and the alcoholism did to his father and the family. It is really about honesty. It is about letting your son know that he can ask his father about it, but it is up to his father if he wants to talk about it. My son was a tween. I was more afraid that someone else would talk to him about it and that he would not have a loving parent discuss the issue with him. It is not a discussion that you can have in one night. I know that it will make more sense to him as he gets older.

firecricket

With my 7 year old I read a children's book about addiction and said Daddy has an addiction and that's why he's behaving the way he's behaving. Then asked if she had any questions.

But with my 14 year old I did the same as you, made it clear that I am also not perfect and I've also made mistakes. She is old enough though and can see the difference, no matter what I own my mistakes and I am still here taking care of my children. She's also in Ala-teen every week, so that helps, too.