SparkleKitty

I think what we're all trying to say, my friend, is that as long as you continue to indulge the fallacy that you have any control over what she does or how she responds--whether by tracking her movements or triggering her with questions you have every right to be asking--you will continue to feel like rubbish on a consistent and steadily worsening basis. Your lives are already being destroyed by addiction and denial. The idea that you can "blow it up" by doing something that places your and your child's emotional well-being at the forefront is like saying you don't want to pour water on a raging housefire because the carpets might get mold.

Empathy for your wife is natural and admirable. Pretending you can fix her way of dealing with life's challenges by always doing and saying the perfect thing is an illusion, and services no one. There are no magic words. If she is going to change her life, she needs to do it herself, no matter what you do or say. Full stop.

It isn't about jealousy. It isn't about those other men. It isn't even about you, beyond your own acceptance that her addiction has nothing to do with you, and that you have no control over it.

Cookie314

The "what-ifs" around an addict will kill you. It is part of what keeps you trapped in this cycle of denial, pain, and self-blame. First off, it's impossible to more what would have happened over night if you'd said nothing. It's easy to think that it would have turned out better, since that's what you want, but it just as easily could have turned out the same. Remember, any excuse will do. Anything you say or do can be used as an excuse.

Secondly, I also struggled with what ifs, but have found its much more constructive to remind myself why I said or acted as I did. When my AH was having a severe withdrawal and strong suicidal ideation last year, I was terrified for him. I pushed going to a detox facility to get help, and called around until I found one near us to take him in. The facility ended up being an extreme struggle for him. The other addicts there were in very severe states, it was understaffed, with almost no groups going on for the weekend, and no activities for stimulation. It was deeply traumatic for him. For a long time after he resented me for sending him there, and I carried the guilt of sending him to such trauma.

With time though, I realized that the events at that place were not my fault, and out of my control. I was not the one who made him drink so much and get so sick. I had no way of knowing what the facilities at this place were like. I didn't send him there out of spite. He desperately needed help. The negatives of that place don't change the fact that he had a serious need for medical intervention, and I made the best call I could. To ask myself "what if I hadn't sent him there?" Is unfair, because it glosses over his refusal to go to the hospital or other locations, and the fact his situation was a medical emergency. I made the best choice I could with the information I had available at the time.

So instead of asking yourself "what if I had said nothing?", instead go over in your mind why you asked her. It is normal and healthy to want to talk to your partner about your fears and concerns. Relationships need that strong foundation of trust and honesty. You are well within your rights to want to talk to your wife about difficult topics, and if she responds to that with drinking, that is out of your control. Her negative reactions don't change the fact that difficult topics sometimes need to be discussed.

It's hard for me to delve into sexuality on this forum given it's public nature for a more private topic. I think that it sounds like you carry a lot of shame around sex with your wife, which is not surprising sure to the nature of her cheating causing you such pain. For what it's worth, I don't think wanting to have sex with your wife is something wrong or for you to feel shame for. I do think you are right that she is using it to manipulate and placate you, and I can understand your desire to feel like she's "yours." It is deeply hurtful to be monogamous with a partner who is not respecting those desires. Unfortunately, you are likely going to continue to feel like rubbish until the two of you can work through those differences. If she is unwilling or unable to, then you will need to decide if you can come to terms with her actions. It's not an easy situation.


I defended my AH a lot as well. It's hard feeling like you are the only one who sees this magnificent person beneath the surface. If only you could lead them out of this dark tunnel they're in so they and everyone else can see the side of them that you do. The problem is that they are both sides of that coin. It's not easy to straddle that line of being honest about her hurtful, inappropriate actions while not feeling like you've gone too far. It helped me to remember that being honest about the things that have hurt you is not the same as saying your partner is a bad person. You can be honest and say that it hurts you to be lied to, cheated on, manipulated, and left alone all the time. That doesn't mean you hate her, or think she is all bad; it means there are actions and boundaries for you two to discuss and work through.

If you're able, I would suggest researching emotional exhaustion. You are describing reaching a point where you have been under such emotional strain for so long, you actually shut down your emotional responses as a form of self defense. The treatments for it depends on your situation and you as an individual, but usually revolve around removing yourself from the traumatic situation, exercise, diet, therapy, family/ friend support, and other forms of self care.


What could you really do to destroy your lives that the addiction isn't already doing? Do you really want to live your life just getting by each day? Everyone faces adversity, but this is like condemning yourself to emotional pain and burnt-out for the slim chance things might just get better.

I understand not wanting to be confrontational, and stereotypical. That said, you are not. You raising honest concerns about her health and actions is not being jealous or controlling. She is your partner, the mother of your child. Wanting her to be safe and healthy is part of the package.

I want to point out you equate changing your situation to "blowing up" or "giving up." Neither of these are necessary. There is a difference between being honest about the nature of your situation, and being malicious or destructive. It's OK not to want to leave your wife, we get that. A lot of us see the situation you're in and push for it, but it is ultimately your choice. This brings us to my favorite topic to discuss on this forum: boundaries. Boundaries are you taking control of your own responses. They need to be clear, and most importantly, you need to be able to follow through. Boundaries are what help you create that wall between your sanity and her chaos.

One example would be "i will not have sex with you when you're drunk." A good boundary of it's one you can follow through on. If not, that's alright.

One that might help you is "I will not stay up late to monitor her location." I get that you are worried, hurt, curious and probably a little jealous when she goes out at night. But tell me, what does monitoring her location do to help you? Does it bring you peace, or make you anxious and upset? Does it interrupt your sleep? If so, that's a boundary that will help your self care by improving the quality of your sleep, and hopefully reduce your anxiety. You may even want to lock your bedroom door at night if you were willing.

There's a lot of different ones you can look into. My point is you can only control your own responses in this situation. Doing so might help you see that you have more options for improving your health that don't equate to blowing up.

formylose

Yeah, I guess that blaming myself is not good, and objectively I know it's not my fault. That doesn't mean the questions I want to ask are good ones for me to know. If I asked all the questions I have, I would sound like a jealous idiot, and I might end up dredging up things from earlier in our relationship that are probably just paranoia.

I understand, but you can message if there are thoughts that you can't say public. That goes for anyone else too.

Cookie, you mentioned not staying up to monitor her location, but then I've also been advised to keep detailed notes, so not really sure where to go with this. Maybe the notes give me a sense of control, like I'm on top of the situation. But then the notes also give me some answers to some of those questions that I should know. I've gone back and counted up how many different locations she has gone back to and it's pretty scary to be honest.

I am seeing more where you are coming from, and I'm going to think about it a lot. But her family will be going home soon and so I want to see how things play out after that.

Thank you again for everything. You thoughts are still welcome.

Cookie314

While it's true some of your questions may not be productive, they do not make you an idiot. It's also true that putting too much focus on pinning someone for past actions doesn't generally help healing going forward. That said, it's important to remember your pain and concerns in all this are legitimate. You have a multitude of reasons to feel hurt, jealous, and manipulated in all this. Being able to navigate those feelings and have healthy, productive discussions about them with your wife will likely take the guidance of an experienced therapist. You are not jealous, stupid, or paranoid for having those questions though.

As for the staying up late to track her location, it's entirely up to you. I suggested that boundary because it's something entirely in your control, and sleep really is important. I guess if you're not sure which is better for you, ask yourself what you're keeping those notes for. If you are using them as a tool to build a case for a lawyer for example, or track her habits for her safety, or to help yourself realize the wrongness of the situation, that can be pretty productive. If you're keeping them as a way to confront her with or something, then maybe ask yourself what you hope to achieve with that action, and see if there are more constructive ways to get it.

The boundaries you create are up to you. They're a tool to help distance yourself from her pain and chaos, and help create a personal sense of order. You can look up online for suggestions, or ask around here or in meetings. The goal is to help create an environment that you can be healthy in.

Amaranth

But I do feel like her situation is being taken advantage of by these guys

the only person I see getting taken advantage of in this situation is you my friend

Amaranth

hello formylose
I'm sorry for what you are going through. It's clearly a very tough time. May I ask if you have any support systems in place should anything happen to you? I ask this because I lived through an alcoholic marriage which eventually took it´s toll on me and I became very sick. I was unable to look after my children for a long time. Thankfully they were much older than yours and were able to mostly look after themselves with the help of the neighbours.
Looking back, I blamed myself for allowing the family to get into such a dire situation. How could I have allowed myself to focus so much on the alcoholic father and not put my and my childrens well being at centre stage? The years with your children are precious. They fly by.
Living with an alcoholic is draining metally, physically, emotionally and financially. You cannot maintain it indefinately. Eventually something will crack.....your body, your mind.......hopefully not your temper.
Handing all the responsibility over to your wife for you and your child´s situation is not a solution. I say you are handing all the responsibility over to her because you are waiting for her to face up to her problems before you change something in this situation. Waiting for her to change I´m afraid is not the answer. That´s why you feel trapped.
Don´t assume your wife will step and be there for your child should anything happen to you.

StephEgan

What a tough situation - I haven't been able to read all of the responses - please do not beat yourself up about the boozy breastmilk. Studies show VERY LITTLE alcohol goes into breast milk - the chemical that is made in our bodies after drinking does go through tho and isn't great. Just stop it now and I'm sure he'll be fine.

sage1969

Something I have not seen addressed in this series of posts, or often in SR generally, are the developmental diseases like fetal alcohol syndrome, which can develop in utero whether one or both biological parents is an alcoholic. (Alcohol in breast milk is minimal yes, but not healthy long - term; FAS is different).

If your wife was carrying while drinking, it might be helpful to have some screening done by your pediatrician. Knowing now, when your child is small, if there are possible FAS flags can help so that if there are missed developmental benchmarks, you can get the extra support as your child grows. Because it's an in utero developmental disease, what has happened has happened; getting extra supports in place can really help the child as they grow.

My mother was placed on bed - rest when she was expecting me. I may be disclosing my age a bit here, but her doctor told her to have at least 3 drinks a day, and if possible as many as she could, to "keep her relaxed and calm," so she would not lose the pregnancy. While I don't seem to have any physically apparent signs of FAS, I do have a learning disability and symptoms similar to ADHD (not insurmountable, I've graduate degrees and have worked as a professional and as my family's main income earner). These challenges combined with alcoholism and codependency in my family of origin really made for some challenges for me as a child growing up and even now that I have been working on my own recovery from addiction and codependency.

It's difficult raising children in a household where addiction and codependency are present; screening for FAS might help you be somewhat more prepared should your child need extra supports as they grow.

dbyrer

Your child is being harmed. Please get your child out of this situation.

formylose

Hi there, I felt like I owe this forum and this thread an update.

I was going to post an update a few months ago, because things were going really well and I wanted to give a positive ending to this thread. I was going to say how my wife has some therapy sessions which really seemed to help and we moved to a new area and bought a house, figuratively and literally leaving the past behind us. She stopped drinking, and had been sober maybe 10 months. She does smoke weed, so you could say she replaced one vice with another, but the weed wasn't a problem and seemed to really help her.

So that was what I was going to say a few months ago, but since then, things has changed somewhat.

During an honest conversation about out past, she admitted that she had lied about her sexual history. She was extremely promiscuous before we met. Given what had been happening when she was drunk, maybe that should have been obvious, but it was still a shock to hear.

She actually started a new job, which seemed like a great step forward. But she stayed out late one night for drinks with work people and I caught her in a lie. I checked her phone while she was asleep and there were WhatsApp messages with multiple men.

Over the next couple of weeks I check her phone multiple times and found out that:
- She is sleeping with her boss
- She slept with another co-worker on that night out
- She is sleeping with her taxi driver!
- She is trying to meet up with a guy she bumped into that she "hooked up" with a few years ago.

It's becoming clear that the cheating wasn't a mistake that happened when she was drunk, but something she was consistently doing whilst sober too!

On top of the alcoholism, I think she is actually a sex addict.

Don't really know what I'm going to do, but I want to give some update to this thread. I guess I thought I could just ignore the problems and they would go away. Well that didn't work.

dandylion

formy....is there any possibility that your wife could have bipolar disease----either bipolar ! or bipolar 2?

The reason that I ask is that when a bipolar person is becoming hypomanic---hyprersexuality is a common symptom. It can be rather dramatic and intense.

I recall, so clearly that this happened with my husbands very sraight laced sister in law----as she was becoming hypomanic.

formylose

I don't think it's bipolar, she doesn't really have mood swings. I actually think she is a sex addict. In the last 6 months her sex driver has gone through the roof. We have sex 2-4 times a day, and she is still cheating with other guys. She has admitted that she needs therapy, so that is a start.

trailmix

I suppose it's a start. I am sorry things didn't continue as well as they were - well at least in theory, you don't really have any idea what she is up to, you only know what she deems to tell you.

She may be a sex addict but she may also just be trying to fill some void in her life, looking for attention and validation from men, I suppose the outcome would be the same if you were inclined that way (ie: you could bring yourself to sleep with random men - and I don't mean that in a judgemental way).

In one of your earlier posts, you mentioned that there was condemnation of your wife. I wouldn't go that far but out here in "normie land" (normie being a person who is not an alcoholic) - your situation is hugely far from anything "normal".

So I don't think it's condemnation, but I don't think there are many people who would have put up with what you have, so I think that may be what you are hearing.

You also mentioned that you felt like you would sound like you were making "excuses" for her, since someone mentioned it. In reading back over your earlier post, that's not what I hear, what I hear is you making excuses for yourself, as in "I know this all sounds really bad and I see it reflecting back on me, but it's not that horrible when you really break it down". Kind of a defense but you aren't actually defending yourself day to day.

You also don't sound like a Husband, you sound like a therapist or caregiver.

If any of that sounds harsh - please know it's not meant that way, not one little bit. I'm just telling you what I see from the outside looking in here.

I guess what this leaves me wondering is, what are you getting from this, or are you so accustomed to this situation that you just keep going with the flow and will hang in there regardless?

trailmix

I'm quoting myself yippee! lol

Anyway, what I was trying to say here is I think what you hear is people speaking in your defense? Because you are not.

Free2bme888

Praying you get your child to a safe place. He only has you.

Be the adult for him, if not for you.

my heart bleeds for both of you